Support NeoGAF

[longdi]

It's not just PS5 weak specs but everything leading to it. The specs was supposed to be their saving grace, to show the world they still had it.

We were ok with PS4 pro underspecs, we were ok with poor BC etc.

Jim Ryan and Mark Sony probably thought they can build a $380 bom machine again and win easily

But imo PS5 as it is, shows current bunch inside SCE is inept or way too complacent. They had years since xbx1x to know where the next gen battlefield meets.

I won't be surprised if PS5 cant hit $399 msrp. By then, it is ultimate doa.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Digital Foundry have made a great, long analysis/explanatory video that made me digest 50% of that Mark Cerny crazy tech talk. I'm appreciating PS5 a lot, actually and it seems way more innovative than brute forcing. Take it like:

PS5: Nissan GT-R NISMO (600hp)
XSX: Dodge Challenger Hellcat (707hp)

Gearheads will understand what does that mean.

 

[quickwhips]

So by numbers xbox series x > than ps5. I didnt see that coming.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Digital Foundry have made a great, long analysis/explanatory video that made me digest 50% of that Mark Cerny crazy tech talk. I'm appreciating PS5 a lot, actually and it seems way more innovative than brute forcing. Take it like:

PS5: Nissan GT-R NISMO (600hp)
XSX: Dodge Challenger Hellcat (707hp)

Gearheads will understand what does that mean.

yeah I made a thread for this

good video

 

[Bo_Hazem]

yeah I made a thread for this

good video

Jumped there, I was going to do a thread myself, thanks for going ahead. What an amazing video that is.

 

[Shmunter]

It will come down to how serious MS is with the X, or if it’s just a show pony in a lineup where S is the main sales focus. This includes pricing structure.

Sony will outsell MS irrespective tho simply based on brand and what people expect from it.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

So by numbers xbox series x > than ps5. I didnt see that coming.

You may say so, but we really need to see games first. That SSD stuff if you watch DF is no joke, and a lot of other tech guys are hooked. It's a lot more than load times.

The PS5 has many customization in it, that helps lessen the gap much further, even surpassing overall in some scenarios at least.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

All these xbox fan boys happy that the Xbox is more powerful, but so?

The current Xbox is the most powerful console, and outside of fan boys, nothing has changed.

Are Xbox games going to score higher with users and critics because it has more power? Are Playstation exclusivs worth less now?

My own fanboy ego was hurt when I found out the numbers. Now I can't gloat about ps5's Tflops, but I haven't been able to before I knew this information, so it really doesn't change anything.

Let the Xbox fans celebrate, I guest they really haven't had much to celebrate before today..

 

[Chiggs]

I feel like the PS5 is going to surprise everyone. Its custom I/O stuff seems utterly incredible.

The FLOPS stuff is fool’s gold.

One concern: HD expansion seems like it could be a problem. Could.

 

[Shmunter]

All these xbox fan boys happy that the Xbox is more powerful, but so?

The current Xbox is the most powerful console, and outside of fan boys, nothing has changed.

Are Xbox games going to score higher with users and critics because it has more power? Are Playstation exclusivs worth less now?

My own fanboy ego was hurt when I found out the numbers. Now I can't gloat about ps5's Tflops, but I haven't been able to before I knew this information, so it really doesn't change anything.

Let the Xbox fans celebrate, I guest they really haven't had much to celebrate before today..

In all fairness, we don’t know the precise customisation within the GPU’s the holders made. The difference may be closer, or even further than numbers indicate.

Seemingly there is less load on PS5 in ssd asset streaming and fancy audio. Things that are unavoidable and used constantly in a game. Real world results may be surprising in the end.

 

[Stuart360]

All these xbox fan boys happy that the Xbox is more powerful, but so?
The current Xbox is the most powerful console, and outside of fan boys, nothing has changed.
Are Xbox games going to score higher with users and critics because it has more power? Are Playstation exclusivs worth less now?
My own fanboy ego was hurt when I found out the numbers. Now I can't gloat about ps5's Tflops, but I haven't been able to before I knew this information, so it really doesn't change anything.
Let the Xbox fans celebrate, I guest they really haven't had much to celebrate before today..

 

[OccamsLightsaber]

Good to see this place is still a dumpster fire. Yall keep forgetting 3rd party engines tend to optimize for the lowest common denominator. Same shit every generation. There's not going to be a difference of 720 vs 900 or 900 vs 1080. They'll both attain 4K 60. 1st party games will continue to look outstanding. sheesh

 

[quickwhips]

You may say so, but we really need to see games first. That SSD stuff if you watch DF is no joke, and a lot of other tech guys are hooked. It's a lot more than load times.

The PS5 has many customization in it, that helps lessen the gap much further, even surpassing overall in some scenarios at least.

All i said was on paper one is 10 and one is 12. I didn't see that coming. No need to make excuses. Numbers are numbers. They don't mean their won't be fun games.

 

[Kerotan]

They will be cheaper out the gate and when xbox is getting destroyed in sales MS will firesale the Xbox constantly to clear stock same as this gen.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

All i said was on paper one is 10 and one is 12. I didn't see that coming. No need to make excuses. Numbers are numbers. They don't mean their won't be fun games.

Yup, then explain to me how XSX is beating 2080ti? Numbers are like horsepower in cars, it doesn't 100% wins you the race. XSX should be the more powerful overall, but it's not that simple.

 

[Markness]

Damage control is out. I repeat, damage control is out!

 

[Filippos]

So what will 12.1 tflops mean other than bigger epeen, please explain?

Cos a $500 or even $450 Series X is gonna be 3rd place again. Is this your idea of 'winning'?

who says it’s going to be more expensive? What if both are going to be $399 and the series S will be $199?

MS would destroy Sony. They could EASILY pull that price off. Easily.

 

[grfunkulus]

I see this is catching on. When you buy a graphics card, do you want it to run at 2000mhz even when web browsing ? No, you don't, that would be stupid and a waste of energy. All GPUs and CPUs dynamically overclock for a reason.

Lol what? Not the same at all. 90% of pcs have switchable graphics and use integrated graphics for web browsing. No one uses dedicated graphics for that shit if they can help it.

You made the wrong efficiency argument and none are valid anyway because no amd GPU running at 2.2k+ mghz has proven to be efficient. Itll need to be there the vast majority of the time to keep up with X and has likely been designed that way. The cooling solution + smaller chip wont stop it from being loud and weak in comparison. Sony is betting on 2 second load times vs 5 to make all the difference.

It sure is a strategy

 

[Filippos]

What a bullshit delusionL thread.
1. we don’t know the Price of any console. What if both are $399? Ps5 has an expensive cooling system and expensive ssd. So they could easily be the same price.
2. who says MS is launching with two consoles? They never said that. At all.

the whole thread is based on what? Storys out of your arse? And wishful thinking!

 

[Ar¢tos]

I think brand image is being forgotten.
MS has a hard time selling consoles in EU/Asia. At most, Sony will lose some market share.
Even with a 600$ console, launching 1 year later and an arrogant attitude they managed to stay on top in the ps3 era.

 

[Chairman Tickles]

Are we really back in the early 90's. Is this 3DO/jaguar/blast processing all over again? When will people learn that raw power up to a point means nothing.

 

[Maxwell House]

The issue is you're not even being genuine. The GPU of the PS5 runs at a much higher clock speed and therefore those teraflops are not 1 to 1 comparable, since they are ultimately more efficient, among other things. You want to brute force something? Then Xbox probably wins, but things aren't quite so clear if you take the advantages of PS5 into consideration.

Lol you really don’t understand this technically. Higher frequency is HOW Sony is getting to 10.28 TF peak. Microsoft is getting to 12.155 TF by running more CUs at lower frequency. In the end, it is 10.28 TF vs 12.155TF. PS5 getting there by running faster just means it’s a more inefficient design that will likely have heating and loudness issues. The power difference is what it is. Running faster doesn’t give Sony any extra power to close the gap.

Microsofts approach is much better.

 

[sinnergy]

And so the SSD wars have begun!

Happy SSD wars everyone !

Like clock work!

 

[sinnergy]

Are we really back in the early 90's. Is this 3DO/jaguar/blast processing all over again? When will people learn that raw power up to a point means nothing.

I heard ray tracing is a gimmick like bloom was.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

It's not just PS5 weak specs but everything leading to it. The specs was supposed to be their saving grace, to show the world they still had it.

We were ok with PS4 pro underspecs, we were ok with poor BC etc.

Jim Ryan and Mark Sony probably thought they can build a $380 bom machine again and win easily

But imo PS5 as it is, shows current bunch inside SCE is inept or way too complacent. They had years since xbx1x to know where the next gen battlefield meets.

I won't be surprised if PS5 cant hit $399 msrp. By then, it is ultimate doa.

Do you realise how stupid this comes across?! lmao losing 1.8tflops to the competition whose OTT 52 CU GPU may appeal to the 30 Xbox fanboys on this site, but means Series X is gonna come second or 3rd place again this gen because of price.

DO YOU REALISE the problem with a $500 or even $450 console? It means Series X is DOA in markets outside NA. Again. MS once again ignored the gigantic , huge potential worldwide market all for what, to appeal to 30 Xbox fanboys on Gaf ?!?

 

[longdi]

Do you realise how stupid this comes across?! lmao losing 1.8tflops to the competition whose OTT 52 CU GPU may appeal to the 30 Xbox fanboys on this site, but means Series X is gonna come second or 3rd place again this gen because of price.

DO YOU REALISE the problem with a $500 or even $450 console? It means Series X is DOA in markets outside NA. Again. MS once again ignored the gigantic , huge potential worldwide market all for what, to appeal to 30 Xbox fanboys on Gaf ?!?

Reminder Bloomberg leak about Sony over extended their V budget. Just few days ago, we had members questioning no way PS 5 bom means lower specs than Series 1.

Reminder 2, ms when into designing series 1 off xb1x $499 msrp target with intention of eating hardware losses. Sony targeted $399 but bom prices have escalated...

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Reminder Bloomberg leak about Sony over extended their V budget. Just few days ago, we had members questioning no way PS 5 bom means lower specs than Series 1.

Reminder 2, ms when into designing series 1 off xb1x $499 msrp target with intention of eating hardware losses. Sony targeted $399 but bom prices have escalated...

Zhuge, the leaker who was spot on, says Series X has the highest BOM. This is MS's PS3 Cell moment almost.

Let's see how a $450 console with all games also running on XB1 sells in a recession. I'm guessing it'll be DOA outside NA but you csn believe what you like

 

[Daffy Duck]

do you want a complement? some of you are just weird.

what? Sorry, I’m confused on your point

 

[sinnergy]

Do you realise how stupid this comes across?! lmao losing 1.8tflops to the competition whose OTT 52 CU GPU may appeal to the 30 Xbox fanboys on this site, but means Series X is gonna come second or 3rd place again this gen because of price.

DO YOU REALISE the problem with a $500 or even $450 console? It means Series X is DOA in markets outside NA. Again. MS once again ignored the gigantic , huge potential worldwide market all for what, to appeal to 30 Xbox fanboys on Gaf ?!?

Enthusiasts like graphics and power , like gaf. Lockhart will finish the job.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Enthusiasts like graphics and power , like gaf. Lockhart will finish the job.

Lockhart is less powerful than One X, PS4 Pro, but more expensive. Yeah, it's an irrelevence.

 

[longdi]

Zhuge, the leaker who was spot on, says Series X has the highest BOM. This is MS's PS3 Cell moment almost.

Let's see how a $450 console with all games also running on XB1 sells in a recession. I'm guessing it'll be DOA outside NA but you csn believe what you like

Let's see.
Aside from the larger apu die size, Series 1 don't have any standout costs...
This is more like MS ps4 moment, smart engineering to deliver the most pure gaming punch while Sony goes ssdssdaudioboostoverclockvrvr

I bet my hairy ass both will be $499. Unless the continued bad press forces Sony to eat the losses and drop theirs to $399

 

[sinnergy]

Lockhart is less powerful than One X, PS4 Pro, but more expensive. Yeah, it's an irrelevence.

Lockhart will be 249 dollars everyone will snag one.

So skimmed the market at the top and at the bottom .

 

[MilkyJoe]

PS5 has just secured inevitable dominance this coming gen assuming their first party don't crap the bed. Here me out warriors. The reason is the pricing strategy. PS5 was either going to be one of two approaches:

1. Most powerful console but with a hefty price tag and a decline in their 2:1 sales split with Xbox this gen
2. Powerful but cheaper console (36 CU GPU is a lot cheaper to produce than 52 CU in Series X) with a mainstream price and continued worldwide dominance.

Sony are not stupid so they chose No.2. MS it appears are quite stupid and chose to play second (or third) fiddle worldwide again with a premium console that can't hit mainstream price sweet spot or even get close.

How is the Series X, at minimum $500, going to sell in the vast markets where the price is going to kill sales stone dead? A worldwide recession, or one in US and Europe at least, is coming hard with Coronavirus shutting down industry for months to come. How's a $500 product gonna sell in that climate?

Also, but less significant, is Series X will have no exclusives, so it's pitched more against gaming PCs where it loses hard. And with all that power, PS5 exclusives may look more impressive because of this fact...

So fly at me with all your wrath ladies and gents, Cerny/Sony just pulled off a masterstroke!!!

Sony created the Corona virus confirmed.

 

[martino]

Lockhart is less powerful than One X, PS4 Pro, but more expensive. Yeah, it's an irrelevence.

someone has any idea how 52cu at 1.8ghz and 36 cu at 2.3ghz on 7nm+ yield compare ?
(not coming from fanboy wishes)

 

[HaveButOneLife]

well you don't need "peak" for Indie stuff/trash.

As Microsoft buys like 5 Indie studios. Never downplay the significance of Indies.

 

[TBiddy]

Lockhart is less powerful than One X, PS4 Pro, but more expensive. Yeah, it's an irrelevence.

No it's not, unless you know something that noone else knows. I get that you're angry after yesterday, but no need to lie.

 

[Max_Po]

As Microsoft buys like 5 Indie studios. Never downplay the significance of Indies.

Try visiting Nintendo's eShop and come back and let me know ...

 

[Mista]

Lockhart is less powerful than One X, PS4 Pro, but more expensive. Yeah, it's an irrelevence.

You're still trying so hard aren't you? Don't pull shit out of your ass and put proof

 

[quickwhips]

Yup, then explain to me how XSX is beating 2080ti? Numbers are like horsepower in cars, it doesn't 100% wins you the race. XSX should be the more powerful overall, but it's not that simple.

I dont have to explain anything to you as i said numbers were numbers. And all we are talking about is 2 consoles here and the numbers they make at max performance.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

You're still trying so hard aren't you? Don't pull shit out of your ass and put proof

So despite your shouting and hollering yesterday, you've accepted MS are in a pickle because they're going into a new gen with a premium console that wont sell outside NA.

And now you'te putting hopes that Lockhart will save them?! Bwaha

 

[Kokoloko85]

Wow when you sleep the xbots will come out. Looks like Microsoft has hired half of neogaf

 

[Mista]

So despite your shouting and hollering yesterday, you've accepted MS are in a pickle because they're going into a new gen with a premium console that wont sell outside NA.

And now you'te putting hopes that Lockhart will save them?! Bwaha

What? Are you mistaking me for someone else? I never said Xbox will outsell the PS and I said that million times before. I’m a sane person living in reality I haven’t put hopes in anything. Get out of the little scenario you’re living in your head. Lol

 

[Mista]

Wow when you sleep the xbots will come out. Looks like Microsoft has hired half of neogaf

Yes yes its XboxGAF now

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Mista, tell me, when has an Xbox outsold Playstation when it costs more? It gets outsold hard when they both cost the same!

Come on lad. The cold hard reality is after the moment in the sun for the 10-15 fanboys on here yesterday because of Series X 16% (literally nothing) better specs, 99% of buyers wont give a shit.

This is a big boys business you know. Sales and revenue dictate success not epeen for a handful of diehards

 

[VFXVeteran]

Yeah but can you play Spider man 2, God of War 2, Naughty dogs next game, Horizon 2. + XX amouts of exclusives?

I think the Xbox will be at a disadvantage with exclusives at the start of the generation. No doubt. But I also think their machine will gain traction with good quality exclusives coming down the pike.

Sony's popularity of exclusives will be mitigated somewhat since a lot of them will be ported to PC. I think that's going to be saving's grace for Sony though as far as games sold. They'll still be able to release their true vision in their exclusives by being able to put all the features they wish they could implement on the PC hardware with no constraints.

 

[DryvBy]

Holy crap, did people miss that Cerny said straight up that TFlops don't paint a full picture which is 100% fact? People act like it's the end and it's not. Both systems are very different in different ways. TFlops comparisons show some low IQ level knuckle dragging. Stop it.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Wow when you sleep the xbots will come out. Looks like Microsoft has hired half of neogaf

Did you see Gaf on Tuesday when Sony announced they will be discussing PS5 on Wednesday. They are just back into hiding because they feel let down with the results.

 

[Kokoloko85]

I think the Xbox will be at a disadvantage with exclusives. No doubt. But I also think their machine will gain traction with good quality exclusives coming down the pike.

Sony's popularity of exclusives will be mitigated somewhat since a lot of them will be ported to PC.

The 360 era had all the advantage of 3rd party Exclusives that gen, Playstation lost alot ot 3rd party exclusives the PS3 gen and 360 had a year advantage and got many good deals with 3rd party.
Playstation 3 still had the better exclusives games and sold more overall....
Xbox will never outsell Playstaion lol. Doesnt matter how meltdown Neogaf gets. Xbox will never have a success like the 360 again. Ill av bet anyone who thinks otherwise lol

 

[VFXVeteran]

The 360 era had all the advantage of 3rd party Exclusives that gen, Playstation lost alot ot 3rd party exclusives the PS3 gen and 360 had a year advantage and got many good deals with 3rd party.
Playstation 3 still had the better exclusives games and sold more overall....
Xbox will never outsell Playstaion lol. Doesnt matter how meltdown Neogaf gets. Xbox will never have a success like the 360 again. Ill av bet anyone who thinks otherwise lol

How can you say that with such conviction? The generation hasn't even started yet.

 

[Ogbert]

They will both be good systems. Will come down to games.

That said, the one thing MS really is leading the way on, is backwards compatibility.