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[TheExodu5]

Because CS has nothing to do with IT?

You can do a whole CS degree barely touching an actual computer.

Anyways I shouldn't have made the connection...but any CS student is going to have quite a few headaches related to the environment they're working in.

Unless it's all theory and no application.

 

[Pimpbaa]

What I don't get is that I bet you 95% of the PC elitists own at least one of the HD twins if not both. I own both. I buy plenty of PS3 and 360 exclusives. And I play them too. Not a ton, but today I have been using my PS3 far more than I have used my PC. When we speak of consoles, we almost always (I always) speak for current personal experience.

Yeah I owned both (but got rid of my 360 shortly before xmas). I was gaming pretty much exclusively on my ps3 while gaming only a little bit on my laptop (mostly WoW). Then I bit the bullet and built myself a proper gaming pc and I am almost exclusively gaming on that except for some GT5 on PS3. And I didn't even buy a monitor for it, I just hooked it up straight to my tv along with my ps3.

 

[Yoshi]

I guess but it's a one time thing during installation, not something everytime you go to play like he suggests.

I didn't suggest I have to do it every time I play, but every time I play a new game for the first time. Sometimes it's DirectX, sometimes it's the driver of the graphics card, ... I play about 3 PC games a year.

 

[NIN90]

I didn't suggest I have to do it every time I play, but every time I play a new game for the first time. Sometimes it's DirectX, sometimes it's the driver of the graphics card, ... I play about 3 PC games a year.

Yeah that's like 10 minutes of your life you'll never get back!

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

It's definitely less than 10 and that's still less than 360 or PS3 updates in a year even if it's 10.

 

[Old Gimlet Eyes]

I didn't suggest I have to do it every time I play, but every time I play a new game for the first time. Sometimes it's DirectX, sometimes it's the driver of the graphics card, ... I play about 3 PC games a year.

It's a non issue. Most PS3 games make you do a mandatory install when you first play. I always install my 360 games when I first get them. Sure this may take some time before you are able to play the game for the first time, but it helps with performance. Just like updating drivers or directx when you first run a PC game.

 

[Dennis]

What I don't get is that I bet you 95% of the PC elitists own at least one of the HD twins if not both. I own both. I buy plenty of PS3 and 360 exclusives. And I play them too. Not a ton, but today I have been using my PS3 far more than I have used my PC. When we speak of consoles, we almost always (I always) speak for current personal experience.

People spewing bullshit about PC don't have a gaming PC and don't have an current personal experience to speak of, otherwise they wouldn't be spewing all the bullshit in the first place.

This needs to be quoted for truth.

Most gamers with high end PC rigs also have a 360 and/or PS3 so they know what they are talking about.....they other side of the debate.....not so much.

 

[Yoshi]

It's a non issue. Most PS3 games make you do a mandatory install when you first play. I always install my 360 games when I first get them. Sure this may take some time before you are able to play the game for the first time, but it helps with performance. Just like updating drivers or directx when you first run a PC game.

I don't say it should be an issue for anyone but me, but I know for sure it's an issue for me. If games start to force me to install them on a console, it will also be an issue for me.

 

[Old Gimlet Eyes]

I don't say it should be an issue for anyone but me, but I know for sure it's an issue for me. If games start to force me to install them on a console, it will also be an issue for me.

What about games with optional installs? You might be trading some time for better performance, but that is always worth it to me. Would you rather just jump into the game or take that time to make sure the game is playing optimally with lesser loading times?

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

But you also have to do system updates and such before you can play on the HD consoles where as steam does it in the background for you. That would seem to offset it right there.

 

[Stumpokapow]

It's a non issue. Most PS3 games make you do a mandatory install when you first play. I always install my 360 games when I first get them. Sure this may take some time before you are able to play the game for the first time, but it helps with performance. Just like updating drivers or directx when you first run a PC game.

When comparing consoles and the PC in this regard, it's worth noting that at this point drivers are managed through Steam and if you have to do the stupid Visual Studio / DirectX redistributable crap when you first launch a game, it takes 5-15 seconds.

 

[Old Gimlet Eyes]

When comparing consoles and the PC in this regard, it's worth noting that at this point drivers are managed through Steam and if you have to do the stupid Visual Studio / DirectX redistributable crap when you first launch a game, it takes 5-15 seconds.

And it is annoying to be sure. Steam should know what DX version you have and either install if you need it or just move on if you don't. Now, this is only happening the very first time you launch a game. With PS3 when you first start a game you have to do a mandatory install and 360 gives you an optional install. Whether it's mandatory, optional or a DX/Driver check on the games first launch, it's all to make the game run at tip top shape.

Wherever you are gaming at, there are going to be installs and updates. Those are not exclusive to one platform or another. It might be annoying, but it's for the good of the game.

 

[daycru]

What about games with optional installs? You might be trading some time for better performance, but that is always worth it to me. Would you rather just jump into the game or take that time to make sure the game is playing optimally with lesser loading times?

First thing I do with any new game is install it, I never play from disc.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Man this thread is making me rethink buying a gaming PC. I need a new computer anyway though, just thinking about the stuff that can go on and remembering compatibility stuff just seems daunting.

 

[Stallion Free]

Man this thread is making me rethink buying a gaming PC. I need a new computer anyway though, just thinking about the stuff that can go on and remembering compatibility stuff just seems daunting.

What compatibility stuff?

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Man this thread is making me rethink buying a gaming PC. I need a new computer anyway though, just thinking about the stuff that can go on and remembering compatibility stuff just seems daunting.

Seriously?

 

[DodgyGeezerFella]

Man this thread is making me rethink buying a gaming PC. I need a new computer anyway though, just thinking about the stuff that can go on and remembering compatibility stuff just seems daunting.

Windows 7 sticks a long spikey rod down incompatibilities dick.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

What compatibility stuff?

From posts in this thread, card things, card exclusive stuff, old games not running good, needing to install emulator stuff for old games that take care of old features. The computer I have now should have no problem playing Black and White but when I installed it the game ran worse than a older computer I had. Figured that somehow the computer I have now just wasn't good enough for B&W until this thread. Maybe it's the same with Deus Ex. I remember having a PC Gamer Disk that included 3 games on it (DVD) and one was Deus Ex and I held onto that disk for years until I got a PC with a DVD drive, and now that I have it it didn't play the game well at all.

Getting a PC but not too excited about the playing games part if the game don't work well. But seeing these things Evil post like the SF4 pics with stats make me drool. I at least want a PC that can run Diablo 3 well.

Windows 7 sticks a long spikey rod down incompatibilities dick.

Do you mean that it eliminate the compatibility issues or enhance them with the spike down the dick thing (painful to think about).

 

[Monocle]

Even now when I play pc games, I spend inordinate amounts of time tweaking settings to get the perfect balance of framerate and graphics.

Fuck that.

I want the intended performance from the second I start the game.

This is one reason I stick with consoles. Another (bigger) reason is the blessed absence of mysterious errors and other bullshit that takes a whole evening to fix. I don't have the time or patience to deal with that nonsense.

Spoiler

Watch me reconsider in a few months when someone posts sexed-up screenshots of a game I have to play. I have no spine, it's true.

 

[NullPointer]

Man this thread is making me rethink buying a gaming PC.

Same here. I keep running through various imaginary setups wondering if I can find the perfect one.

I need a new computer anyway though, just thinking about the stuff that can go on and remembering compatibility stuff just seems daunting.

Its much better than it used to be, but hopefully most of that can be figured out during an initial research period before buying new hardware.

For me I keep thinking of: a small shuttle case, the latest battletested video card and as much HD space I can muster, multiple HDMI outputs and a bluray/dvd drive. Wireless Keyboard/Mouse and Xbox gamepad and the latest 64 bit Windows (my home PC is still Vista). Not sure how much RAM is considered decent nowadays though.

At 6 feet from my 60" HDTV I'd have to muck with accessibility settings to get the desktop and applications to be readable and comfortable on the eyes. But as long as I could surf the web, check email, post on GAF I should be good to go. I'd imagine putting maybe $1200 - $1500 into budgeting this, provided I got a well rounded system that does everything I need, but has some powerful oomph to it.

Anything I'm missing from this setup? Any pitfalls I'm not seeing? Haven't gotten a new PC in quite a few years now, and I've *never* built one from scratch, so I'd probably spend a little extra cash to either get it built and/or include a service plan.

Pros: Power, flexibility, mods, increased storage for media. Better setup for playing RTS, and MMOs and Bethesda games. If researched well enough, cheaper to upgrade down the line. Usable for basic PC functions and some limited work use.

Cons: No console exclusives (of course), disadvantage in competitive multiplayer if using a gamepad versus players with KB/Mouse, some games not optimized for playing on TVs from a distance. May bring out the min/max tweaker in me once I start fiddling with settings, and I will: Give me choices on improving framerate and I'll use them.

 

[iam220]

Don't get a service plan, money down the drain.

I wouldn't even bother using a 360 pad in PC FPS online game ... you'll rage for sure.

If you're spending upwards of $1500 on your PC you won't have to worry about messing with settings, just set it to the highest and enjoy. At least for a while.

card things, card exclusive stuff

What's that?

As for old games, if you buy them from gog or steam you shouldn't have a problem. If not, use google to find the solution. Chances are that someone has already tried and succeeded.

 

[NullPointer]

I wouldn't even bother using a 360 pad in PC FPS online game ... you'll rage for sure.

That'd be a bummer, but if having a good time with PC gaming means depending upon the keyboard/mouse then it would never be a good fit for my living room. That'd suck because the living room is where I've put all the investment into the HDTV/Internet/Audio.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

That'd be a bummer, but if having a good time with PC gaming means depending upon the keyboard/mouse then it would never be a good fit for my living room. That'd suck because the living room is where I've put all the investment into the HDTV/Internet/Audio.

You shouldn't have a problem with 360pad on PC. Don't a lot of pc people still use pad even on PC? There was a thread about it, not the seasoned PC players but the younger ones. It should work, just don't expect to be the best.

 

[iam220]

That'd be a bummer, but if having a good time with PC gaming means depending upon the keyboard/mouse then it would never be a good fit for my living room. That'd suck because the living room is where I've put all the investment into the HDTV/Internet/Audio.

For FPS or RTS especially in an online setting a mouse and keyboard is pretty much required. Now I myself haven't found an acceptable solution for this on my couch setup, but that's also because I prefer to play on a desktop for those type of games anyways. So I haven't really been looking that hard. Hopefully there's a solution out there that you'd find acceptable.

I would like to add that for the slower-paced mouse based games, like civ series or amnesia, I found that (wireless) keyboard on the lap and mouse on the couch to be adequate and fairly comfortable but that doesn't work as well for the faster paced games.

You shouldn't have a problem with 360pad on PC. Don't a lot of pc people still use pad even on PC? There was a thread about it, not the seasoned PC players but the younger ones. It should work, just don't expect to be the best.

I meant FPS specifically online FPS. Saying that you won't be the best is a massive understatement. You will be bottom tier, everytime. I played some black ops on the ps3 and was amazed as to how much time upon my target seeing me I had to react and aim before I was dead. In comparison playing it on the pc is a completely different beast. You're not afforded anywhere near as much time. It's a lot more fast paced and it's not subtle either, it's very a stark contrast.

 

[NullPointer]

You shouldn't have a problem with 360pad on PC. Don't a lot of pc people still use pad even on PC? There was a thread about it, not the seasoned PC players but the younger ones. It should work, just don't expect to be the best.

I could live with that. I gave up on that dream years ago ;P

And yeah, if I was to play a PC MMO or RTS game I'd definitely break out the keyboard/mouse, but FPS? Honestly, while I know it seems blasphemous to many, I just really love using a gamepad - there's no way I'd go back to KB/Mouse. It just feels... wrong, even if far more precise. And believe me, my entire gaming upbringing was PC shooters so I never would have imagined it would have ended up this way.

I meant FPS specifically online FPS. Saying that you won't be the best is a massive understatement. You will be bottom tier, everytime. I played some black ops on the ps3 and was amazed as to how much time upon my target seeing me I had to react and aim before I was dead. In comparison playing it on the pc is a completely different beast. You're not afforded anywhere near as much time. It's a lot more fast paced and it's not subtle either, it's very a stark contrast.

Well... shit ;P

This thread is an emotional rollercoaster. Well, I'll look into things - maybe I can work it out, maybe I can't. But having choice is always a good thing, and both consoles and PCs can learn some valuable lessons from how the other platform solves problems or innovates.

 

[Nabs]

Eh. Black Ops is playable with a controller if you're good enough. The training wheels are off though. No ouija board aim assist.

The game is still a different beast with a kb/m. Lots more freedom there.

 

[mrklaw]

Man this thread is making me rethink buying a gaming PC. I need a new computer anyway though, just thinking about the stuff that can go on and remembering compatibility stuff just seems daunting.

I wouldn't worry about it. If you are building anyway, you almost have to go for an i5 2500 system. So the only real difference if you want gaming is to buy a GPU. Or not. Fairly small investment to try it out.

Also a lot of criticism is coming from those that don't game on PC, or did so ages ago (which is also me, and sounds like you). So we remember the trickier times. It does sound simpler these days, and i'm willing to have a go.

I do need to learn more about controllers though. Would very much prefer a wireless controller but most seem to recommend wired 360 pads.

 

[TwiztidElf]

I know why 'PC master race'. Hell I'm a Starcraft 2 junky.
But I swear, fucking ATI 'infinite loop' BSOD bullshit. ARGGGGGG!
NEVER ATI AGAIN. NEVER!

 

[vocab]

I know why 'PC master race'. Hell I'm a Starcraft 2 junky.
But I swear, fucking ATI 'infinite loop' BSOD bullshit. ARGGGGGG!
NEVER ATI AGAIN. NEVER!

Stop using 10.12. Cmon Master race, use your brain.

 

[manzo]

I'll move back to PC gaming when:

- There will be a possibility to boot straight to an Steam/Live like UI which would support a gamepad and would be designed for living room input. The game launcher should be designed in a way that there would be no need, EVER, to use a keyboard and a mouse. For maintaining the launcher, you could do it from your normal keyboard/mouse/monitor desktop.

- Sony exclusives like Uncharted, GoW, Demon's Souls, Valkyria Chronicles etc. appear also on the PC.

- MS exclusives like Forza appears on the PC.

- All console exclusives like El Shaddai, Castlevania, Bayonetta, Vanquish, Final Fantasies etc. also appear on the PC.

Also, for some reason it's still a fucking hassle to get extended or dual screen to work decently with a projector. Primary- secondary ohshit now i can only see the game screen in other ohshit now it's in the wrong resolution ohshit now there's underscan fuck it.

 

[Pikelet]

I'll move back to PC gaming when:

- There will be a possibility to boot straight to an Steam/Live like UI which would support a gamepad and would be designed for living room input. The game launcher should be designed in a way that there would be no need, EVER, to use a keyboard and a mouse. For maintaining the launcher, you could do it from your normal keyboard/mouse/monitor desktop.

- Sony exclusives like Uncharted, GoW, Demon's Souls, Valkyria Chronicles etc. appear also on the PC.

- MS exclusives like Forza appears on the PC.

- All console exclusives like El Shaddai, Castlevania, Bayonetta, Vanquish, Final Fantasies etc. also appear on the PC.

Also, for some reason it's still a fucking hassle to get extended or dual screen to work decently with a projector. Primary- secondary ohshit now i can only see the game screen in other ohshit now it's in the wrong resolution ohshit now there's underscan fuck it.

The only reason you would get a pc is if it was identical to a console, right down to the games?

Not to mention the fact that by their very nature 'exclusives' don't get ports...

Btw, it is super easy to get a cheap as shit wireless mouse for navigating steam from your couch. That's what i have for my setup and it works great.

 

[Scipius]

I'll move back to console gaming when:

- There will be a possibility to hook it up straight to my monitor and the console will support whatever native resolution it has. It will need to have a GUI that makes full use of the screen real estate. The game launcher should be designed in a way that there would be no need, EVER, to use a controller. All games would need to support kb/m or better; I can't stand gamepads.

- All console exclusives need to appear on it. I don't care that Sony and MS paid good money to keep it for themselves; this will need to change before I buy a console. I'll settle for emulation though.

- All PC games ever made need to work on it, of course. Arcade games too. And games from older home computers and consoles!

- All games need to be fully customisable. The hardware too; no way am I going to stick with the same graphics for 5 fucking years or more.

- The console must also support normal applications; web browsing, office, media playing (all formats!), programming, AutoCAD, etc. You know, the every day stuff.

Also, for some reason it's still a fucking hassle to switch between screens on my TV. AUX1- HDMI2 ohshit now I can only see the game screen in other ohshit now it's in the wrong resolution ohshit now the calibration is off fuck it

Spoiler

Forgive me, manzo

 

[M°°nblade]

Well almost all multiplatform games are actually designed for the controller, so for some it might be worth the price of admission alone just to get those running at their full potential. The only adjustment you need to make is to figure out how to use a keyboard and mouse on a couch setup, I have not done this but some have so maybe they can pipe in and let us know what they had to purchase or do.

Using your PC just to run console ports with gamepad support makes it very limited and complex gaming device:

- Everytime you want to buy a multiplatform game, you first have to make sure it supports a gamepad.
- You will miss AAA multiplatform games like Mass effect 2, Bioshock 2 and Dragon age.
- I can imagine some games require you to configure the buttons entirely yourself.
- You can forget competitive online games like CoD because every match will be a handicap match for you.
- You will miss many PC exclusive RTS or MMO games which focus on KB&M.

This is why I bought a compact MS mobile bluetooth keyboard 6000 with separate numeric key pad for my HTPC setup. But I will still have to find a solution for my wireless mouse. One of my ideas is to make a detachable wooden surface for my coumfy couch. Kind of like an advanced bread- and breakfast desk.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

...well consoles are more portable....in most cases...

 

[Stumpokapow]

I'll move back to PC gaming when:

- There will be a possibility to boot straight to an Steam/Live like UI which would support a gamepad and would be designed for living room input. The game launcher should be designed in a way that there would be no need, EVER, to use a keyboard and a mouse. For maintaining the launcher, you could do it from your normal keyboard/mouse/monitor desktop.

this is sort of possible now.

boot to steam is no problem, set your default view to the big wall of tiles views, use a joystick analog->mouse mapper to navigate. it'd be pretty ghetto, but it'd work.

 

[Yoshi]

What about games with optional installs? You might be trading some time for better performance, but that is always worth it to me. Would you rather just jump into the game or take that time to make sure the game is playing optimally with lesser loading times?

On consoles I nearly never use them. The only game I've ever used it for was Sonic Unleashed. For games that I just play through once and never play again (most review copies) that's a waste of time.

I also don't get why I always get answers which refer to Steam. I don't use Steam, review copies come on discs and I will never buy a game from a dl service if I have the opportunity to buy it on disc / cartridge / card.

 

[Stallion Free]

On consoles I nearly never use them. The only game I've ever used it for was Sonic Unleashed. For games that I just play through once and never play again (most review copies) that's a waste of time.

I also don't get why I always get answers which refer to Steam. I don't use Steam, review copies come on discs and I will never buy a game from a dl service if I have the opportunity to buy it on disc / cartridge / card.

Better prepare to give up gaming soon then because digital downloads are the way we are heading.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

Better prepare to give up gaming soon then because digital downloads are the way we are heading.

And cd-keys too, judging from the online pass with Dead Space 2. :')

 

[Doffen]

I like standardized hardware. You are assured the same level of performance as everyone else. To me, that is the greatest strength of a console platform.

This.

 

[bozeman]

I've got a gaming rig coming in a week or 2 and I'm excited by a bit worried about KB/M. How easy is it to play, say, Mass Effect 2 for a guy who's only experience with KB/M is You Don't Know Jack and the original Castle Wolfenstein?

 

[manzo]

this is sort of possible now.

boot to steam is no problem, set your default view to the big wall of tiles views, use a joystick analog->mouse mapper to navigate. it'd be pretty ghetto, but it'd work.

The depressing part that out of everything I ask of Steam, this one would probably be the easiest thing to implement.

Also, for some reason it's still a fucking hassle to switch between screens on my TV. AUX1- HDMI2 ohshit now I can only see the game screen in other ohshit now it's in the wrong resolution ohshit now the calibration is off fuck it

Seriously, CCC Profile system is fucking retarded. Either it's something to do with my setup or then ATI just cannot code a decent profiler. I have 2 profiles created:

- Monitor only (1680x1050 panel)
- Projector only (1920x1080, 0% over/underscan)

First of all, when I turn on my projector, CCC automatically turns on extended desktop: Monitor primary with the projector as extended, but with 20% UNDERSCAN for the projector screen. There is no way to change the defaults for this. OK then, just choose my profile, right? Nooope. If I choose "Projector only", CCC crashes. I have to choose Monitor only first, THEN Projector only. And most of the time, the Projector only switches BACK to extended desktop. I have to choose it 2-3 times before it goes to projector only.

Things might be different with nVidia, but god damn CCC makes things hard.

The only reason you would get a pc is if it was identical to a console, right down to the games?

Not to mention the fact that by their very nature 'exclusives' don't get ports...

Btw, it is super easy to get a cheap as shit wireless mouse for navigating steam from your couch. That's what i have for my setup and it works great.

I'd rather play with only one system. Also, keyboard+mouse from the sofa just doesn't work. I played STALKER for a few hours and my wrist hurt like hell because there is no other place for the mouse except my side. This isn't the most ergonomic way to play.

 

[ghst]

For FPS or RTS especially in an online setting a mouse and keyboard is pretty much required. Now I myself haven't found an acceptable solution for this on my couch setup, but that's also because I prefer to play on a desktop for those type of games anyways. So I haven't really been looking that hard. Hopefully there's a solution out there that you'd find acceptable.

it goes beyond that though, comfy couch is as much an argument of mentality as it is technicality. even if you had a hand carved lapboard that provided every pressure point on your hands with a degree of unprecedented comfort while simultaneously massaging your bed-sores, initating a custom ui suitably scaled for your distance to the screen, the argument would still reign. playing an rts or fps that doesn't actively patronise you from an ass up position is always going to leave you at the mercy of those upright, attentive and two feet from their zany ppi screen with 2ms response time. no lube required.

"i like to be as sedentary and whale like as possible, but still compete with people who consider winning more important than being horizontal" well that's what auto-aim and thumbsticks are for.

 

[manzo]

it goes beyond that though, comfy couch is as much an argument of mentality as it is technicality. even if you had a hand carved lapboard that provided every pressure point on your hands with a degree of unprecedented comfort while simultaneously massaging your bed-sores, initating a custom ui suitably scaled for your distance to the screen, the argument would still reign. playing an rts or fps that doesn't actively patronise you from an ass up position is always going to leave you at the mercy of those upright, attentive and two feet from their zany ppi screen with 2ms response time. no lube required.

"i like to be as sedenatary and whale like as possible, but still compete with people who consider winning more important than being horizontal" well that's what auto-aim and thumbsticks are for.

Hahaha

 

[TheExodu5]

it goes beyond that though, comfy couch is as much an argument of mentality as it is technicality. even if you had a hand carved lapboard that provided every pressure point on your hands with a degree of unprecedented comfort while simultaneously massaging your bed-sores, initating a custom ui suitably scaled for your distance to the screen, the argument would still reign. playing an rts or fps that doesn't actively patronise you from an ass up position is always going to leave you at the mercy of those upright, attentive and two feet from their zany ppi screen with 2ms response time. no lube required.

"i like to be as sedenatary and whale like as possible, but still compete with people who consider winning more important than being horizontal" well that's what auto-aim and thumbsticks are for.

genius

 

[iam220]

Using your PC just to run console ports with gamepad support makes it very limited and complex gaming device:

As compared to using your PC for its full gaming potential? Absolutely. It's extremely limited in comparison.

Even still, it might be worth it for those here that own all 3 consoles, some handhelds and spend over a grand in games a year (read: have a lot of money to spend on video games).

You also get other benefits like emulation, and superior web browsing (which can easily be done on a couch w/ keyboard+mouse), and who knows, maybe one day out of curiosity they'll try out the starcraft 2 demo on their desktops and decide that it feels nothing like work after all

it goes beyond that though, comfy couch is as much an argument of mentality as it is technicality. even if you had a hand carved lapboard that provided every pressure point on your hands with a degree of unprecedented comfort while simultaneously massaging your bed-sores, initating a custom ui suitably scaled for your distance to the screen, the argument would still reign. playing an rts or fps that doesn't actively patronise you from an ass up position is always going to leave you at the mercy of those upright, attentive and two feet from their zany ppi screen with 2ms response time. no lube required.

"i like to be as sedenatary and whale like as possible, but still compete with people who consider winning more important than being horizontal" well that's what auto-aim and thumbsticks are for.

hahahahaha

All jokes aside, that's one of the reasons as to why I prefer the desktop setup especially in competitive online games.

 

[SonOfABeep]

Why bother with consoles?

Cause I just booted up Bioshock 2 and even lowest settings doesn't allow the combat to be as smooth as it is on my 360.

Fucking worst thing about PC gaming is how you can get high FPS all the time until things start shooting at you or running around or you want to shoot something and then it's a slideshow.

I ran Bioshock 1 at full settings so I don't understand this shit.

 

[faceless007]

"i like to be as sedentary and whale like as possible, but still compete with people who consider winning more important than being horizontal" well that's what auto-aim and thumbsticks are for.

You da man.

I don't know if this is thread worthy but Penny Arcade had a post from the dev of Monday Night Combat about the differences in how to design controls for keyboard vs. gamepads. He doesn't really take a side about it and yet just the facts pretty objectively prove mouse > thumbsticks given how many crutches have to be built in to dual-analog controls just to make it playable.

Moving a shooter from the console to the PC has had some interesting challenges. Monday Night Combat is still the same game from a gameplay mechanics point of view. However, since the input mechanism has changed I have found some challenges in getting the game to a balanced state.

Now, ask any gamer who has played a shooter on both the PC and a console and they will tell you that mouse and keyboard is infinitely better than a console controller. PC players long for a game that they can play on a PC versus people playing on a console just for the pwnage of console newbie meat. We accept this as a universal truth. But why? Why is a mouse and keyboard so much better than a controller? Here’s my theory and analysis.

It all comes down to how each input mechanism affects your ability to turn. On a console, the angle in which a player can turn is a function of both time and displacement of the thumb stick. No matter how far players want to turn, they have to pay a time cost. Even at the highest controller sensitivity, there is a time cost to be paid. On a PC the angle of turn is a direct mapping of how far you move the mouse. The time cost is variable and the better players get that time cost to approach zero.

Now, on consoles we use an array of aim helping mechanisms all in an attempt to help with this time cost. View acceleration allows that time cost to not be linear from distance the thumb stick is moved. It’s an attempt to guess that if players jam their thumb stick to one side and hold it they want to spin quickly, but if they slam it to one side and release they want to make a fast minor adjustment. So at the beginning of the time cost the rate of turn is slower and it speeds up exponentially, to a cap, as time goes by.

View friction slows down the player’s turn speed when an enemy passes in front of their cursor. This makes it so they can shortcut that time cost by allowing players to turn up the sensitivity, thus lowering the time cost, but make it so that the turn rate slows down when you have an enemy in their sights. Hopefully, this makes it easier to get a target in the crosshairs.

View adhesion, which will cause the player’s cursor to adhere to enemies passing in front of the player, is an attempt at taking the time cost away. This mechanic tries to match the player’s turn rate to a target moving in front of the player. Thus trying to remove the time cost for moving targets that should be easily hit.

Aim attraction is the last console helping mechanism. This is a system that takes a shot you make, sees if it’s going to be close to a target, and adjust that shot ever so slightly so that it hits. This doesn’t directly affect the time cost but does give some perceived precision to shooting on a console.

Now, all these systems sound like cheating but they all revolve around the same concept; make the time to aim as small as possible. None of these systems are needed on the PC because that time can get to be nearly zero by sheer player skill.

With all that said, how does this affect Monday Night Combat from console to PC? Well, I take all the skills and abilities that are very aim dependent and look at them. The sniper is the most obvious example: a one shot, one kill class that is very powerful if their time to aim can be nearly zero. The first thing I did was drop the clip size of the sniper rifle by 60% (from 10 to 4). Why? Because now I’m forcing the sniper to be more accurate. On console I allowed for a little ‘slop’ and gave some extra ammo. But on PC the shots have to count or the player will find themselves vulnerable again while reloading. This may even get lower, since there is no kickback on our sniper rifle there’s even been talk of making it a bolt-action rifle.

The sniper was the first fix. The Tank charge was not as obvious at first. The skill is a one second forward run that damages, knocks back, and stuns anything it hits. On the console it works fine. Good players can use it to kill one other player. But now that there is a near-zero cost of aiming I found that good tanks can zig-zag to hit players or even easily charge around corners. So I dropped the damage of the level 3 Tank charge, which also does the stun, because I found that when players can aim that fast it becomes nearly impossible to avoid. With the damage so high it assured multiple kills. With the high damage the Tank Charge best use case on the console would be one kill but the best use case on the PC would be two or three kills.

Another subtle PC induced nerf was the Firebase. When a support player throws one out other players have three seconds to destroy it before it deployed and started attacking them. On the PC Firebases were dying much more often simply because players can focus on them so much faster. So to counter act this effect I reduced the amount of bonus damage they take while deploying. This forced players to focus on the Firebase for longer. This still make Firebases destroyable before they fully deployed but made it so it wasn’t so trivial.

Another interesting thing popped up recently. We were in the process of tweaking how the Gunner and Tank jump jets work. Why? Because with a mouse and keyboard, you can now jump and aim at the same time. With the console controller there's an additional time penalty to be paid to move your thumb off the jump button and back onto the right thumb stick in order to aim while jumping. This is no longer an issue on the keyboard so we looked at ways to slightly change the mechanic so the best move for the two heavy chassis was to always be in the air.

I’m sure as the Monday Night Combat beta goes on there will be more and more things I find that are affected by the precision of the mouse and keyboard controls. As I find them, we will fix them up and get them out to the fans as soon as possible.

 

[MoFuzz]

You da man.

I don't know if this is thread worthy but Penny Arcade had a post from the dev of Monday Night Combat about the differences in how to design controls for keyboard vs. gamepads. He doesn't really take a side about it and yet just the facts pretty objectively prove mouse > thumbsticks given how many crutches have to be built in to dual-analog controls just to make it playable.

It was given it's own thread IIRC. Good to have the perspective a dev tho.

 

[Reallink]

Using your PC just to run console ports with gamepad support makes it very limited and complex gaming device:

- Everytime you want to buy a multiplatform game, you first have to make sure it supports a gamepad.
- You will miss AAA multiplatform games like Mass effect 2, Bioshock 2 and Dragon age.
- I can imagine some games require you to configure the buttons entirely yourself.
- You can forget competitive online games like CoD because every match will be a handicap match for you.
- You will miss many PC exclusive RTS or MMO games which focus on KB&M.

This is why I bought a compact MS mobile bluetooth keyboard 6000 with separate numeric key pad for my HTPC setup. But I will still have to find a solution for my wireless mouse. One of my ideas is to make a detachable wooden surface for my coumfy couch. Kind of like an advanced bread- and breakfast desk.

Yea, not really. This group of people would be getting into PC Gaming because they've owned the current gen console(s) for 5-6 years and are tired of sub-HD, aliasing, and shit image quality. They're never going to "miss out" on AAA games because the PC port doesn't support a pad, they'll just buy the console version. Of course there is Xpadder and various other KB/M > Pad mapping apps. It's also quite likely this demographic has zero interest in traditional PC staples like RTS's or MMO's. If they are, they might play FFXI or XIV (if it ever becomes good) which is a developer they're familiar with, and both support pads natively. Honestly, 90% of modern PC games are console ports (Blizzard and Indie shit excluded), so this is a stupid argument in the first place. Any competitive online games they plan to play will take place on Live/PSN where their friends of several years are, not PC where they'll get owned regardless of input type.

 

[brain_stew]

I wouldn't worry about it. If you are building anyway, you almost have to go for an i5 2500 system. So the only real difference if you want gaming is to buy a GPU. Or not. Fairly small investment to try it out.

Also a lot of criticism is coming from those that don't game on PC, or did so ages ago (which is also me, and sounds like you). So we remember the trickier times. It does sound simpler these days, and i'm willing to have a go.

I do need to learn more about controllers though. Would very much prefer a wireless controller but most seem to recommend wired 360 pads.

Just go with the wireless pad it works great.