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[ApharmdX]

That's troubling if true. It seems, as an outsider looking in, that Muslim immigrants to the West are undergoing severe culture shock. Coming from an Islamic country, especially from those where fundamentalism is rampant, these men struggle to reconcile Western sexual mores. But that's no excuse for this behavior, either.

I'm not sure what the solution is, or even if there is a solution.

The Swedish rape epidemic has destroyed my view of a country I once dreamed of living in. Fear of appearing racist is clearly one of the main elements that is allowing this to continue. I always knew over political correctness and people who scream racism would cause something bad to happen, but I never imagined anything as horrible as this.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaYwwyQWUrE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ze0sK8f48x4

Nice source. Isn't he a MRA and a right-wing loon?

 

[Fluvian]

To put into context, We Are Sthlm is not a regular festival with 'drugs and booze', it is aimed at the age of 13-19 yrs old.

Drugs have been banned at every festival I've ever been to, it didn't stop me from seeing Jack White on LSD.
Throwing a 13-19 music festival is like throwing a 13-19 rave. What a terrible idea.

 

[Kinyou]

So they are investigating this. I don't see the big problem? They haven't yet determined who exactly is responsible for this. Why release rumors about possible suspects, especially if there is not enough evidence? Just because they aren't releasing this information when the investigation is still on-going, doesn't mean that they would not make the final result of their investigation available for the public, if they have caught the perpetrators. Also, police is usually careful in cases where sexual violence is involved, to protect the victims. And it is just a sad reality that rumors like this, even when they are not proven, will cause right-wing radicals to threaten and harm innocent migrants, like it happened in the last few months.

Doesn't the police chief make pretty clear why it wasn't released to the public?

It's a sensitive topic, sometimes we don't dare to say things as they are because we're afraid that it plays into the hands of the Swedish Democrats. We have to take responsibility within the police-force.

Nothing about protecting victims

 

[kamspy]

I'm pretty sure I'm all set on refugees.

 

[Nivash]

This is what wikipedia tells me:

Two reports from the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention (BRÅ) are relevant to the rate of rape among immigrants to Sweden and their descendants. The latest published report that indicates the association between immigrants and rape was published in 2005 and revealed that from 1997 to 2001 foreign born individuals were 5.5 times more likely to be charged of rape than individuals born in Sweden to two Swedish parents and that foreign born individuals from all regions, apart from East Asia, committed sexual assaults at rates up to 5.3 times greater than that of individuals born in Sweden to two Swedish parents.[36] The report doesn't break down the foreign born category by country of origin despite the fact that country of origin has been found to be highly predictive of crime rates in other Nordic countries.[37] However, a 1996 report by the BRÅ did break down rate of rape convictions by country of origin, using data from 1985 to 1989 it found particularly high rates of rape convictions among certain immigrant groups. Among the highest rates we individuals born in Iraq, North Africa (Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia), Africa (excluding Uganda and the North African countries) were convicted of rape at rates 20, 23, 17, and 18 times greater than individuals born in Sweden respectively.[18] Although, according to crime victim surveys from the BRÅ, the actual rate of sex crimes has been more or less unchanged in Sweden between 2005 and 2014, despite the fact that immigration has increased during the same time period.

To add to this, there's also this article for a bit of a more in-depth explanation:

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-19592372

The Swedish rape rate is generally considered to be at the OECD average. The idea that it's the "rape capital of Europe" (or in some retellings, the world ) appears to be a convenient myth considering how it's only ever dragged up when accusing immigrants.

Doesn't the police chief make pretty clear why it wasn't released to the public?



Nothing about protecting victims

It's protecting future victims. Look at what's going on in Germany right now with random retaliation attacks on anyone looking like a refugee, the same thing could have happened here (and might still, now that the cat's out of the bag). We've already had problems with arson attacks on refugee centers, the school slasher and attacks on beggars.

I don't agree with the police's decision because it was always only going to backfire, but I understand why they did it.

 

[El Topo]

The press would ask and silence would be taken as answer.

The same press that apparently didn't report this until now? I don't know. It seems rather trivial to just publish a press release about an investigation regarding sexual assault and I don't see why that would be an issue. If questions are asked, just refer to the ongoing investigation. I genuinely don't see why that would cause an issue. Again, I'm not saying it would have been necessary to inform the public, I can't comment on that.

 

[Fluvian]

That's troubling if true. It seems, as an outsider looking in, that Muslim immigrants to the West are undergoing severe culture shock. Coming from an Islamic country, especially from those where fundamentalism is rampant, these men struggle to reconcile Western sexual mores. But that's no excuse for this behavior, either.

I'm not sure what the solution is, or even if there is a solution.



Nice source. Isn't he a MRA and a right-wing loon?

People love to through words like that around, Sargon is Liberal and anyone who states otherwise should watch his videos on the conservatives in England. The guy is clearly a Labour voter and a liberal but because he's not far left and he's mocked everyone from the LGBT community to Anita Sarkessian he's seen as a bigot (no body ever talks about when he attacks the right), sexist, racist right wing nut. He really couldn't be more of the opposite, the guy has gone out of his way to defend free speech, even being one of the few people to defend Bahar Mustafa when she was arrested.

 

[Hjod]

Yes it is, if you did any research you'd know the rape rates in Sweden are shocking, and the part no one wants to mention out of fear is that something crazy like 90% of reported rapes in Sweden seem to be committed by Muslim men. That's not racist, that's not bias, it's true, just a cold hard fact.

So how do you know that 90% of all rapes are being commited by muslim men? The Swedish Police don't write down your religious beliefs when you're arrested, and let's say they did write that down then you're implying that 90% of all rape in Sweden is solved and someone is arrested?

The reason Sweden tops the lists in Europe is that we have a much broader defenition of rape, the law changed in 2005, it takes far less to be charged with rape here in Sweden then it does in other countries. They lowered the bar of the amount of force it takes for the crime to go from sexual explotation to rape.

 

[Fluvian]

So how do you know that 90% of all rapes are being commited by muslim men? The Swedish Police don't write down that your religious beliefs when you're arrested, and let's say they did write that down then you're implying that 90% of all rape in Sweden is solved and someone is arrested?

The reason Sweden tops the lists in Europe is that we have a much broader defenition of rape, the law changed in 200, it takes far less to be charged with rape here in Sweden then it does in other countries. They lowered the bar of the amount of force it takes for the crime to go from sexual explotation to rape.

Sorry I mean't North African/Arab men.

 

[Dennis]

This is what wikipedia tells me:

Among the highest rates we individuals born in Iraq, North Africa (Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia), Africa (excluding Uganda and the North African countries) were convicted of rape at rates 20, 23, 17, and 18 times greater than individuals born in Sweden respectively.

With 1700-2300% higher rape conviction rates it does indicate that people from these cultures may have views on women that diverge from the Swedish norm.

 

[Hjod]

Sorry I mean't North African/Arab men.

They don't write down your ethnicity either.

 

[Yazan]

Yes it is, if you did any research you'd know the rape rates in Sweden are shocking, and the part no one wants to mention out of fear is that something crazy like 90% of reported rapes in Sweden seem to be committed by Muslim men. That's not racist, that's not bias, it's true, just a cold hard fact.

You need to show a source for that claim.

 

[Fluvian]

They don't write down your ethnicity either.

Uh yes they do, the write down a full description of how you look. Clothes, hair, height, weight and what effinicity you are. Any information that could be used to identify the rapist would be collected.

 

[Fluvian]

You need to show a source for that claim.

Yes I'm looking for it, I really shouldn't have posted that without proof for that statistic (Which I'm 90% sure is correct since I've heard it over and over again) but if I can't back it up I'll take it back.

 

[Yazan]

With 1700-2300% higher rape conviction rates it does indicate that people from these cultures may have views on women that diverge from the Swedish norm.

There is a problem with a lot of street children coming to Sweden from Morocco, and they tend to already be criminal in Morocco.

But equaling them to ALL Arab men have huge issues with view of women is utterly ridiculous.

 

[Nivash]

With 1700-2300% higher rape conviction rates it does indicate that people from these cultures may have views on women that diverge from the Swedish norm.

The total number of cases and perpetrators is small (that's why you get odd numbers like 17 times and 23 times above average) so it's not statistically significant in the first place. Adjust further for factors like age, sex and socioeconomic background and most of the difference disappear. It is true that there's still some discrepancy even after that, but you can't really prove that it's due to culture just by using the numbers. There are a lot of factors not accounted for, like previous traumas that are much more common among refugees.

I'm not saying we should ignore the possibility - especially considering recent events - but it's a bit premature to state that it's definitely cultural.

 

[Hjod]

Uh yes they do, the write down a full description of how you look. Clothes, hair, height, weight and what effinicity you are. Any information that could be used to identify the rapist would be collected.

Yes if they take statements from witnesses they would take that down. But how do you go from witness statements to 90% of all rapes in Sweden are commited by Arab/North African men?
Could you please show me this study where you pull this cold hard fact?

 

[Skinpop]

Drugs have been banned at every festival I've ever been to, it didn't stop me from seeing Jack White on LSD.
Throwing a 13-19 music festival is like throwing a 13-19 rave. What a terrible idea.

it's not that kind of festival. I wouldn't even call it a festival. it's more of an event with music and food for families and kids.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

I don't understand. Was what I wrote targeted at all men? I must have expressed myself poorly.

You didn't. People are just primed to read these kinds of statements as inflammatory.

If you meant "where there are men, some men will inevitably be assholes" then you are correct and no one could dispute that.

Might not be the best response to a discussion specifically about one country's stats, but that's a different matter.

 

[Fluvian]

Yes if they take statements from witnesses they would take that down. But how do you go from witness statements to 90% of all rapes in Sweden are commited by Arab/North African men?
Could you please show me this study where you pull this cold hard fact?

I already told the other guy I'm looking for it. This isn't easy reading to go through, it's hard enough to figure out what's propaganda and what's actual hard stats. So if I find something that corroborates what I said I'll still need to find at least two more good sources that do to.

 

[Fluvian]

it's not that kind of festival. I wouldn't even call it a festival. it's more of event with music and food for families and kids.

Oh, Lol I hear the word festival and the first thing that comes to mind is me getting shit faced with my friends and watching Metallica play.

 

[Fluvian]

Alright fuck it I don't know where I got that 90% stat from because I can't find any sources that back it up. I take it back.

 

[Netherscourge]

I'm normally liberal with this stuff and I have been mostly on the side of the refugees.

However: Cover-up = you're protecting the criminals and shaming the victims.

This actually leans me back the other way on the issue and makes me more unwilling to invite young male refugees into the country.

 

[Ryaaan14]

Is it? Men being assholes seems to be a thing where ever men can be found.

This is deep af

 

[Hjod]

For anyone that's intrested in reading about the high amount of reported rapes in Sweden, here is a good study done by The Swedish National Council for Crime.

How common is rape in Sweden compared to other European countries?

 

[kcp12304]

Alright fuck it I don't know where I got that 90% stat from because I can't find any sources that back it up. I take it back.

It's easy to throw around "facts" that paints a whole group of people as being a bunch of criminals and rapists. Then people do the whole "how dare you call me a racist it's just the facts" persecution complex thing after. See Donald Trump.

Also, just because Sargon isn't some raging right wing bigot or that he votes labor doesn't mean he isn't a paranoid jerk.

 

[Nivash]

For anyone that's intrested in reading about the high amount of reported rapes in Sweden, here is a good study done by The Swedish National Council for Crime.

How common is rape in Sweden compared to other European countries?

Thanks, I was looking for that one. That's the one that points out that rape is at the OECD average when using victim surveys which are much more reliable than raw police report numbers.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Imagine that.

 

[Fluvian]

It's easy to throw around "facts" that paints a whole group of people as being a bunch of criminals and rapists. See Donald Trump.

Also, just because Sargon isn't some raging right wing bigot or that he votes labor doesn't mean he isn't a paranoid jerk.

yeah I got caught out of my depth spouting facts I couldn't back up ( I certainly didn't get that stat from Sargon). I don't know what you mean by paranoid, the guy always struct me as logical and well founded, he's not always right (I don't care what you say Sargon, Idris Elba could totally be Roland Deshchain!) but he always presents a well founded argument that he backs up with facts.

 

[Hjod]

Thanks, I was looking for that one. That's the one that points out that rape is at the OECD average when using victim surveys which are much more reliable than raw police report numbers.

No problem, remebered that I read it a couple of years ago. Needs to be read by more people so we can put this "Swedish rape epedemic" theory to bed.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

Yes it is, if you did any research you'd know the rape rates in Sweden are shocking, and the part no one wants to mention out of fear is that something crazy like 90% of reported rapes in Sweden seem to be committed by Muslim men. That's not racist, that's not bias, it's true, just a cold hard fact.

I'm sorry, what?

Is this for real?

Receipts please.

Alright fuck it I don't know where I got that 90% stat from because I can't find any sources that back it up. I take it back.

Cold hard fact huh.. smh

keep spreading that FUD

 

[Lashley]

Imagine that.

Imagine what?

 

[Ayt]

Yes I'm looking for it, I really shouldn't have posted that without proof for that statistic (Which I'm 90% sure is correct since I've heard it over and over again) but if I can't back it up I'll take it back.

Funniest thing I've read today.

 

[darkinstinct]

Why is rape and sexual abuse so high in Sweden particularly?

IIRC the main reason is because they changed their laws to be much more strict which led to an increase os several thousand cases of rape ten years ago. The numbers have been stagnant since then.

 

[Valhelm]

Why is rape and sexual abuse so high in Sweden particularly?

Sweden's definition of rape is a lot more broad than, say Congo.

 

[Sutton Dagger]

I already told the other guy I'm looking for it. This isn't easy reading to go through, it's hard enough to figure out what's propaganda and what's actual hard stats. So if I find something that corroborates what I said I'll still need to find at least two more good sources that do to.

The point you're missing is that you have developed a world view and then try to look for 'facts' that back up your statements. This is a classic case of confirmation bias and it's skewing your whole perception of the situation. Rationality and critical thinking are important when we're talking about such sensitive topics, don't get caught up in spouting shit....