and people like me being...? please elaborate.
Ignorant and hater who judge a community based on a single person rant.
These are the racists and sexists people you are talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHC8Kbum-bk&feature=related
and people like me being...? please elaborate.
There are no meaningful dynamics of authority/confidence in social situations ?
Edit: That was glib. That can't be what you mean. But I'm not going to calibrate my degree of disgust with that of the person he was talking to/about. I think her opinion matters, but it shouldn't be supremely or exclusively decisive in the way you seem to suggest.
There are no meaningful dynamics of authority/confidence in social situations ?
Yea that doesn't sound right. What I'd imagine that he could possibly mean is that there is a grey area between banter and harassment.
We all have one thing in common: we play videogames. I think a lot of what's going on in this thread is that we recognize and identify this sort of thing in other videogame, traditional gaming, and internet/tech communities as well, and we're using this event in the FGC to air our concerns, soapbox-style. I'm happy for an opportunity to let people know that this sort of thing is resented by a lot of people and isn't okay anywhere. If this were a post about twitch.tv commenters (which I guess it sort of is) or the speedrunning community or MMORPGs or whatever, I'd probably be in here saying the same thing, no matter what the circumstances are between who was insulted and who was insulting. I want these views and behavior in the gaming community in general to change.I'm not trying to defend anyone's behavior. I'm just trying to say that it's not entirely fair for an outsider to get a view into a group dynamic (specifically the group of people in the stream) and then cry foul because they don't like what's going on in the group. It's up to those people to police their own. If they girl was uncomfortable, she should have said something, or someone else inside the group should have said something, or the guy that was being a jerk should have realized it. Hopefully either way he's realized it at this point and has apologized to the girl. No one else gets to decide what has offended her besides her.
This kinda shit wouldn't happen in the Smash Bros. fighting community.
Sorry, I don't think I understand the question, but I'll try to answer anyway.
I guess the dynamic of authority *should* be what ever is acceptable by the people participating in the social situation. A kindergarten class will have a different measurement for what is acceptable behavior then say a biker gang.... but a bunch of kids having fun shouldn't have someone come in and tell them they are misbehaving???? That's a bad example because the people in the stream aren't kids, they're adults and should be able to police themselves.
I'm sorry, I didn't think the discussion was limited to the stream - inasmuch as I don't think the cascade of stupidity was limited to the stream. I totally agree that they (including outside of stream folks) should be able to police themselves, but I don't think that diminishes the validity of censure when they don't police themselves. I mean, this isn't a closed-off thing. Either this scene has a slightly open, participatory, public turn or it doesn't.
And if it does, then saying that the community are the only ones who get to decide or measure what is acceptable, or talk about what is unacceptable, is a really bad look. I mean, it's going to have some kind of organising sense of itself (which you could flatter by calling it an ethos), and that will abstractly promote some kind of conduct. And maybe that ethos is really solid and works 90% of the time. But it's not adequate to just point at it when shit goes wrong.
and I would continue to say that the responsibility also extends to the folks in charge of the FGC aswell.Now, you could argue (and I would agree) that this was a televised thing being put on by Capcom and they have some measure of responsibility to protect the rights of the audience and the people participating in the show. But that's another post.
Yup. That's pretty much what I took away from that GB article. It's good to see some members of the FGC (Jared Rea and probably/hopefully some other guys, I'm pretty much an outsider when it comes to fighting games) stand up against that sort of shit. That sort of attitude is disgusting. He apologized now but I don't really care at this point.This Aris guy is amazing. A disgusting sample of a human being who represents everything which is wrong with being empowered by a closely knitted community of douchebags who are now resisting the fact that their hobby has grown beyond their fratboy clubhouse, and tries to justify his pigheaded behavior as something which is normal and acceptable.
Choice quotes:
"The beauty of the fighting game community, and you should know this - it’s based around not being welcome. That’s the beauty of it. That’s the key essence of it. When you walk into an arcade for the first time, nobody likes you."
"And then there are people who are racist but they have tons of friends of all colors and they have deep love for those friends."
"This is a community that’s, you know, 15 or 20 years old, and the sexual harassment is part of a culture, and if you remove that from the fighting game community, it’s not the fighting game community--it’s StarCraft."
Ignorant and hater who judge a community based on a single person rant.
These are the racists and sexists people you are talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHC8Kbum-bk&feature=related
You only have to watch one of the regular streams for a short while to see what a bunch of dickheads some of these people are. Not everyone obviously, but there's clearly a culture, born from the sweaty teenboy anger and atmosphere of dark, smelly arcade nerd-holes.
What regular stream are you watching, if I may ask?You only have to watch one of the regular streams for a short while to see what a bunch of dickheads some of these people are. Not everyone obviously, but there's clearly a culture, born from the sweaty teenboy anger and atmosphere of dark, smelly arcade nerd-holes.
Just had a rather amusing back and forth with someone on twitter about this. You guys be the judge, is this what the FGC should be worried about changing? Because to me, this is what the FGC should be striving to get rid of.
http://twitter.com/DarkseidRules/statuses/174813539213656064
http://twitter.com/DarkseidRules/statuses/174824296571613184
http://twitter.com/DarkseidRules/statuses/174825679332978688
http://twitter.com/DarkseidRules/statuses/174827151974076417
http://twitter.com/DarkseidRules/statuses/174828747806093314
http://twitter.com/DarkseidRules/statuses/174829475241000960
Just had a rather amusing back and forth with someone on twitter about this. You guys be the judge, is this what the FGC should be worried about changing? Because to me, this is what the FGC should be striving to get rid of.
http://twitter.com/DarkseidRules/statuses/174813539213656064
http://twitter.com/DarkseidRules/statuses/174824296571613184
http://twitter.com/DarkseidRules/statuses/174825679332978688
http://twitter.com/DarkseidRules/statuses/174827151974076417
http://twitter.com/DarkseidRules/statuses/174828747806093314
http://twitter.com/DarkseidRules/statuses/174829475241000960
I don't know who this person is. Should I? If not, then I don't know how your internet argument with some random douche is relevant.
Because this is exactly the type of shit that certain circles in the FGC are defending. I'd be shocked if Mike Watson himself didn't agree with every word this guy has said so far.
Because this is exactly the type of shit that certain circles in the FGC are defending. I'd be shocked if Mike Watson himself didn't agree with every word this guy has said so far.
Yeah because random guys on the internet have a lot of authority?
Also who cares if Mike Watson would agree (or is agreeing)? It pretty much known that he's a dumbass and every inch of respect he gets is only because he plays since like 20 years.
Those circles are a small minority. They don't speak for the rest of us nor are they large in numbers as I just stated. Every community has a small minority of jerks and the FGC is no different. But like I said, most of us don't tolerate that kind of behavior.
Who said anything about authority?
Then why are you even posting his tweets? He's a random nobody, he's not relevant.
Ignore that, shoryuken says the scene is fun, accepting and competitive and that's what's really defining about it. You don't get fun and competition in StarCraft!
Because he identifies with the FGC and has an opinion like you and I? Why are you responding to me as I am not a figure of authority in the FGC?
Because he identifies with the FGC and has an opinion like you and I? Why are you responding to me as I am not a figure of authority in the FGC?
Nor did I claim they speak for anyone but themselves. However, I question how much of a minority it is when this is the typical response I've seen to the situation from within the community. SRK, Stream chats etc. If they're a minority, they're a very VERY loud one.
You ever watch fighting game streams or any popular video game streams? For example lets look at Cross Assault. The show had anywhere from 5 to 10 thousand people watching simultaneously depending on what time of day it was. Of those thousands and thousands of people, maybe 100 or so are constantly on the stream chat typing stuff. And of those 100 or so, the majority are constantly making moronic comments.
So there you guy, a large majority of people are just watching in silence and enjoying themselves. Maybe they're discussing the show some where else like most of us have done using NeoGAF. But the minority that are speaking are normally loud and obnoxious and are the ones that get noticed and have in the past, done a great job of getting under peoples skin. Unfortunately that's not going to change. It's the nature of the internet.
But point being, yeah, that small minority can be quite vocal as they say stupid things and of course it catches peoples attention more when they do so.
I realize the GAF group isn't this way - they can't really be and expect to stick around here. The GAF FGC is a great place with great people, but so is the FGC at large. The biggest issue I'm having with all of this is how the reaction of the larger community has been apathetic or silent on the issue. When you have a vocal minority spewing bullshit and making every one else in the community look bad, feel uncomfortable etc why stay silent on the matter? There's only so much 'authority' can do in an unregulated group, a group like the FGC has to self regulate. Every time flareups like these happen, its because of a lack of self regulation.
Edit: For perspective on my perspective and a side note; I've dabbled in and out of the community over the last few years. I really wanted to get into UMvC3 but I'm fucking awful and the disconnect between being a shit player and being at least moderately adequet is so huge within the game and the community that its a difficult nut to crack, so to speak. I love many of the traits of the community and I really do enjoy many of the personalities involved with it. I'd love to get involved even more but it's tough to know how to go about that when you're on the outside looking in, and everyone on the inside wants to step their own game up as much as they can which means not giving newcomers the time of day in most instances.
The problem with the FGC is that its mostly populated by young 20-something year old scrubs. Once these young men get married and have kids, daughters, they'll grow up and finally understand why calling women "bitches" and "rape" jokes aren't funny.
Have you read inkblots article?
Christian rap is the wave of the futureThe alternative would be getting rid of things you don't like in all cultures and sub-cultures as a whole which might influence them, like sexism commonly found in rap. Not likely to happen.
That's exactly what I mean, and what I was trying to say is that grey area has to be decided upon/acceptable to the people inside the group (aka the people in the stream).. not to people outside the group (aka GAF).
Have you read inkblots article? He runs EVO, the largest fighting game tournament on the planet. He also runs SRK, the most popular fighting game site on the internet. Besides that he's also one of the most respected members of the community out there and is seen as our of the leaders of the community. This is what he had to say
http://shoryuken.com/2012/02/29/back-to-basics-getting-beyond-the-drama/
There are also a lot more of the well known members of the FGC that have spoken out against this and in support of Super Yan but there is so much to list. LI Joe, the guys at Empire Arcadia, the Wake up SRK podcast, Fanatiq and more all had streams condemning that kind of behavior. Besides that there have been made tweets against this kind of stuff as well. More will be said in due time.
In the end I don't really believe Aris is that bad of a guy. He really does think this is just shit and giggles. I don't think he will change nor does he really needs to when he's around friends and people he knows. But hopefully he can tone it down when around woman, children or people he's not familiar with.
And I honestly don't think that is enough. EVO and SRK in particular, have to make sure there are consequences for acting like that level of an asshat. If people start getting thrown out of the scene, or tournies for a few weeks, for acting in ways disruptive to the community, then those folks will change or quit. That will trickle down and help the scene down the road. That article really smacks of whitewashing and hoping this goes away.
SRK is afraid to do this though, understandably so, but I think they need to take the courageous step here for the good of the community as a whole. There are plenty of folks who want to see FGC expansion fail, it's just like any other fandom in that regard. Some folks want to keep it the Super Adventure Club.
Aris may not be a bad person in his heart of hearts, but that doesn't excuse his behavior one bit.
Have you read inkblots article? He runs EVO, the largest fighting game tournament on the planet. He also runs SRK, the most popular fighting game site on the internet. Besides that he's also one of the most respected members of the community out there and is seen as our of the leaders of the community. This is what he had to say
http://shoryuken.com/2012/02/29/back-to-basics-getting-beyond-the-drama/
There are also a lot more of the well known members of the FGC that have spoken out against this and in support of Super Yan but there is so much to list. LI Joe, the guys at Empire Arcadia, the Wake up SRK podcast, Fanatiq and more all had streams condemning that kind of behavior. Besides that there have been made tweets against this kind of stuff as well. More will be said in due time.
a lot of it is just crass behavior that you would not get away with outside of our male-dominated boy’s club. This is way too big of a topic for this article, but it’s something that I think we need to face and address.
If you're talking about that whole esports nonsense, there's a lot more to it besides etiquette/attitude. That's a conversation for a different thread though.There are plenty of folks who want to see FGC expansion fail, it's just like any other fandom in that regard. Some folks want to keep it the Super Adventure Club.
Condemning it is one thing, but actually doing something about it is way a different issue, and it doesn't seem they have the drive to do it cause
yeah whatever, actually fixing it will have to wait until another article, hopefully after the media forgets about it.
This article is sad cause it is all about trying to make people forget about the problem and feel good about the community, instead of fixing the root cause of the problem.
What? Look at all the players that place consistently in majors: they're mostly personalities in the community and not a single one of them is known for this kind of behavior.
Have you read inkblots article? He runs EVO, the largest fighting game tournament on the planet. He also runs SRK, the most popular fighting game site on the internet. Besides that he's also one of the most respected members of the community out there and is seen as our of the leaders of the community. This is what he had to say
What do you propose they do? The best they can do at this point is to condemn it. Evo is the Wrestlemania of fighting games no doubt, but SRK doesn't have any real power over how most other tournaments are run since tournaments are largely independent efforts.
And I honestly don't think that is enough. EVO and SRK in particular, have to make sure there are consequences for acting like that level of an asshat. If people start getting thrown out of the scene, or tournies for a few weeks, for acting in ways disruptive to the community, then those folks will change or quit. That will trickle down and help the scene down the road. That article really smacks of whitewashing and hoping this goes away.
SRK is afraid to do this though, understandably so, but I think they need to take the courageous step here for the good of the community as a whole. There are plenty of folks who want to see FGC expansion fail, it's just like any other fandom in that regard. Some folks want to keep it the Super Adventure Club.
The FGC has a lot of great people in it. That's proof that the asshat behavior isn't needed to have a productive FGC. It's not a defense of the FGC the way it is.
Aris may not be a bad person in his heart of hearts, but that doesn't excuse his behavior one bit.
fchamp says "hi" (and throws a few homophobic slurs in just for good measure)
and he's far, far from the only one