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[Ecrofirt]

Hey all,

I've been asked to teach the Structured Programming course that's running in the Fall at my college.

Here's the description:
CIS 244 — Structured Programming (3)
Program design and development using the COBOL programming language to illustrate structured programming techniques. Topics include data organization, file processing, control structures, I/O functions, control break concepts, table handling, multiple di­mensional arrays, indexed files, random access, and file update and maintenance logic. Prerequisite: CS 116 or CIS 116.

As you can see, the course has been taught with COBOL traditionally. However, I've never touched COBOL, and I'm not even sure it's something I should still really be using at this point. Further, I'm having a hell of a time even finding COBOL compilers that run in Windows 7 x64.

Has anyone had a Structured Programming course? If so, what language was it taught in? And also, what book did you use?

Thank you for your help.

 

[Zoe]

What language is the rest of the school's courses in?

When I started CS, that kind of course would have been taught with C++, but they moved to Java soon after.

 

[Ecrofirt]

What language is the rest of the school's courses in?

When I started CS, that kind of course would have been taught with C++, but they moved to Java soon after.

The CS department uses Java now, and the CIS kids will have worked with Java prior to having this course (due to being in the same class as the CS kids).

Java doesn't seem incredibly compatible though, since it's so heavily object-oriented.

 

[usea]

I had to look up structured programming on wikipedia. Had no idea what it was (I'm a recent CS grad). I don't see how it's very different from imperative programming. Seems odd to me that there is a class on this subject, but every dept's curriculum is different.

I don't see why you couldn't teach the class in Java. Think about not only the concepts that the students need to get from the class, but also how they will apply those concepts going forward in future classes, jobs and projects.

In other words, what context does this class have with regards to the rest of their education? What knowledge do you want them to come away with? What method / tech gives them the highest probability of coming away with that knowledge?

 

[Mondriaan]

I had to look up structured programming on wikipedia. Had no idea what it was (I'm a recent CS grad). I don't see how it's very different from imperative programming. Seems odd to me that there is a class on this subject, but every dept's curriculum is different.

IIRC a lot of CS departments did away with structured programming courses when they moved from Pascal or C to C++ back in the 90s and replaced them with introduction to object oriented programming courses.

That course description does mention COBOL, but I imagine it could easily have been Fortran 77 instead.

 

[ephemeral garbage]

use python, unless static typing is a significant part of the curriculum

 

[Genesis Knight]

At my university, classes like that are instructed using Java.

 

[Escape Goat]

Cobol? wut?

 

[usea]

Can you get a hold of any previous instructors' syllabi? That might be a good starting point.

 

[Bomber Bob]

why not C?

 

[Kinitari]

Cobol? wut?

It's the worst thing in the world.

 

[Ecrofirt]

I've been able to get some of the old instructor's material, but he has since retired.

The course seems to have been designed around mainframe access with COBOL, and generating complex reports that break data in more and more intricate ways.

While the business-driven aspect of it makes a lot of sense, I'm really just not confident that something like that should be done in COBOL any longer.

I've got the option to use a different language, but it seems like I'm going to be held to the idea of interacting with mainframe data files and generating well-structured programs that generate reports.

 

[usea]

I've been able to get some of the old instructor's material, but he has since retired.

The course seems to have been designed around mainframe access with COBOL, and generating complex reports that break data in more and more intricate ways.

While the business-driven aspect of it makes a lot of sense, I'm really just not confident that something like that should be done in COBOL any longer.

I've got the option to use a different language, but it seems like I'm going to be held to the idea of interacting with mainframe data files and generating well-structured programs that generate reports.

That's really unfortunate. I absolutely agree that it's basically pointless to teach the class in COBOL. The students will come away with very little useful knowledge or skills.

Honestly it sounds like a horrible class no matter how you shake it. You may be right that such a heavily oject-oriented language as java isn't the best fit for the class, given that the subject is basically procedural programming. Could you do it in php?

 

[Mondriaan]

I've been able to get some of the old instructor's material, but he has since retired.

The course seems to have been designed around mainframe access with COBOL, and generating complex reports that break data in more and more intricate ways.

While the business-driven aspect of it makes a lot of sense, I'm really just not confident that something like that should be done in COBOL any longer.

I've got the option to use a different language, but it seems like I'm going to be held to the idea of interacting with mainframe data files and generating well-structured programs that generate reports.

I would go with Python since it's already considered a good language for teaching and seems to be gaining traction with processing of "big data".

 

[Trojita]

lol COBOL.

Java fucking sucks. They need to stop teaching it.

Go with C++ or Python.

 

[StuKen]

Groovy might be nice fit. Free form Java with a whole lot of nice stuff bolted on. Works as a multiple paradigm language so you can explore how code executes without worrying too much about formatting and such. Anyone with a familiarity of Java should be able to pick it up very quickly to.

 

[usea]

lol COBOL.

Java fucking sucks. They need to stop teaching it.

Go with C++ or Python.

Posts like this only serve to rapidly descend the thread into a shithole. Flyby "X sucks, use Y" actively detracts from the thread. Like, really badly.

 

[abusori]

Posts like this only serve to rapidly descend the thread into a shithole. Flyby "X sucks, use Y" actively detracts from the thread. Like, really badly.

Java is kind of terrible though. Although I'm sure some

Spoiler

insane

people out there like it.

 

[StuKen]

I use a lot of groovy to map old cobol files to more usable modern data structures. A few nested closures and slice the input cobol string and boom, instant dom tree.

http://groovy.codehaus.org/Using+MarkupBuilder+for+Agile+XML+creation

 

[Zoe]

Isn't CIS more geared towards teaching the actual skills as opposed to the theory like CS teaches? Java is being used by a lot of companies right now. You can't ignore that.

 

[usea]

Isn't CIS more geared towards teaching the actual skills as opposed to the theory like CS teaches? Java is being used by a lot of companies right now. You can't ignore that.

CIS, CS, etc etc vary a huge amount from school to school.

At LSU, the CS program is pretty much geared toward producing PhD students. Very little practical coding skills, almost no business development technologies, etc.

In contrast, at my school (50 miles away) the CS program is very focused on getting people jobs after graduation. Lots of classes encourage you to work in groups on projects in some .NET technology, as most companies in this region are .NET focused. There is lots of OOD material, tons of group projects with design and documentation stages, presentations, eliciting requirements from clients, etc.