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Curt Schilling's "38 Studios" in trouble, skips payroll, bounces check to RI
- Thread starter jbug617
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http://www.pbn.com/38-Studios-CEO-on-indefinite-leave,67619
38 Studios CEO on indefinite leave
crazy
38 Studios CEO on indefinite leave
crazy
Babies come first.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
You do realize that this thread basically has zero to do with KoA:R, right?
{edit} Also way to bury the real reason she's probably leaving, she had a baby. Nice that's the bottom of the article.
Sneaky Gato
Member
I expect that what happened to Dark Millennium(transitioning from a MMO to a single player game) will become more common in the coming years as developers strugglein the face of the demands of better graphics and more competition via F2P.
He didn't do any of the writing in Reckoning though. It was supposed to be based on the lore he was coming up with, but it's set in such a different time from the MMO I doubt any of it was lifted directly.
Sucks for those that might lose their jobs do to the actions of their boss. As for him and this...well best to say nothing if I can't say anything nice.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Well, 2008 making a big MMO seemed like a good bet, 2012 you'd be insane to make one (looking at you ES:O).
krystallinity
Banned
It certainly is hypocritical that his political party stands for the government staying out of everyone's business...yet it's the government forcing the taxpayers to pay for his mess.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
Jesus Christ.
SolidSnakex
Member
I don't think a MMO is ever a good idea when it's going to be your very first project as a company. The amount of risk involved far outweighs the potential positive outcome.
Baconsammy
Banned
Amazing how quickly it all went to hell.
As a Rhode Islander who is sick of this broke ass state throwing away my overly taxed dollars
and
As a gamer who played about a dozen hours of KOA and hated the writing/the art/the combat.
I still can't wish for people to lose their jobs, but seriously gtfo at the idea of taking more tax money.
and
As a gamer who played about a dozen hours of KOA and hated the writing/the art/the combat.
I still can't wish for people to lose their jobs, but seriously gtfo at the idea of taking more tax money.
Perfect post. Big Red Sox fan here. I usually do not get along well with republicans and I know Curt's political views. But I put all that aside, he was so nice on GAF and responded to me multiple times. I have nothing against this guy. The personal attacks really are pretty sad, this guy was very engaged. I did not enjoy Amalur personally I thought it was to easy, but I hope the best for 38.
Well this has been a depressing read. As someone who was a huge fan of EQ, followed 38S closely for years and even applied there a couple times, I really don't know what to think except... we're probably not getting screenshots or a trailer of Copernicus anytime soon if they don't want to draw too much consumer attention to this fiasco.
:/
How did they burn through so much money so quickly?
:/
How did they burn through so much money so quickly?
I hope they take this approach. No doubt there's a million different ways to convert an MMORPG to a single/multiplayer RPG, but if done right the result could be incredible. The story and gameplay obviously cannot be WoW-level stuff, but the amount of content could potentially put other RPGs to shame if they carry over traditional MMO tropes such as multiple starting cities and unique story paths for factions.
Well done, well done man.
Really too bad. Curt always seemed like a really genuine and enthusiastic gamer, going way back to that article about him being crazy into EQ. Seems like the studio put out a pretty solid title (I think it exceeded expectations in the sense of many people thought it would be a total dud) but it looks like they got caught up in the economics of modern gaming. Seems pretty bad but there have been way bigger fiascos involving far more experienced companies and leaders, so I don't really pin it on lol nice try superfan.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
I'm curious about how state funded studios like Silicon Knights compare to a situation like this. I mean, they've been stagnant for a decade but nobody hears about a scandal from that corner. Is the simple answer that Silicon Knights isn't wasting all their money on a ridiculous MMO?
Instead they make sterling products like X-Men Destiny.
jakonovski
Member
But did it make a profit? Probably nothing to write home about, but this video game nerd obsession with gameplay in economic/business threads has to stop.
Aren't most Americans against Government subsidies to companies? I know we (Europe) always get a bad rep from the U.S because of how we subsidize certain production sectors with taxes.
Myself, i don´t see a problem with the state helping out a developer if that means job creation, sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn´t, at least those people at 38 managed to pump some of that cash back into the economy in the form of services, rents, mortgages, etc.
Subsidizing banks is what pisses me off, subsidizing job creators is fine by me.
Myself, i don´t see a problem with the state helping out a developer if that means job creation, sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn´t, at least those people at 38 managed to pump some of that cash back into the economy in the form of services, rents, mortgages, etc.
Subsidizing banks is what pisses me off, subsidizing job creators is fine by me.
Crazymoogle
Member
SK received 500k (2008) from an Ontario media fund (basically development money from the province) and a $4m (2010) loan from a Federal community fund to hire more staff.
You can argue this had a similar outcome in that despite the loan for hiring, SK had significant layoffs (2011) but these were government funding programs already set up to do this sort of thing. (And yes, it was politically attacked.) This is a big difference from the 38 Studios deal, both in terms of total financials and in terms.
The RI deal was basically a honeypot; something I think that was also attempted in Atlanta (?) where they try to permanently move a developer in exchange for a sweet deal on labor cost and/or a place of business. Singapore does exactly this, with both a roughly similar tax-break structure to Montreal and a set of office towers exclusively set aside for technology companies to use (Fusionopolis), but the idea isn't particularly new. I remember back as far as 2001 hearing about a few places in the carribean that were trying to permanently lure studios for prestige/stability reasons.
The honeypot can actually work; especially in more isolated dev zones it can root the employees there and start to develop a local industry. But the idea is typically to do it with much less money invested. Montreal offers a tax break (37.5%) on employment costs, which can be expensive in terms of lost tax revenue, but only if the industry is big...and it doesn't require a loan upfront.
Probably the comparison you would want to use is vs. Ubisoft Toronto, which received a 263m grant from the Ontario government. The terms are still a bit different though; it's a) over 10 years, b) required a 500m investment on Ubisoft's part, and c) I vaguely recall has some minimum hiring requirement as well, although I'm not sure it's the same as their self-proclaimed 800 person target. But there's still a substantial difference in that while UbiTor doesn't have the same kind of general awareness celebrities, it does have a history in building big studios while keeping them sustainable.
This deal is also a bit different in that the original size of the fund used for the loan was $50 million. When Curt approached the state, they increased the fund size to $125 million to accommodate the request for $75 million. However, the majority of the people of the state were against the deal. The current governor even campaigned as being against it.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I'd be stunned if it did. it bombed awfully fast, and one retailer was giving it away for free with the purchase of the most recent Spidey game.
That's mostly a republican/tea party viewpoint, the party that Curt belongs to ironically
They believe that Govt. should stay out of everyone's way and let them succeed/fail on their own, but that's really just code for they want less taxes and less regulation getting in their way.As you can see here, the moment Govt. is waving money in their faces they jump like everyone else.
KibblesBits
Member
This is going to cause major upheaval in Rhode Island. I think the owed money should come straight from Curt's pockets instead of Rhode Island being stuck with a company whose assets and products may or most likely will not be bought out by another company. The project looked messy from the start and the honeypot idea was not received well but went ahead anyhow. Instead of doing something safe and profitable a huge clusterfuck was brought into being. Worst of all this will be blamed on gamers by people who won't look at the whole picture.
The people in the EDC who were involved with this should be fired/let go. The EDC itself needs restructuring and a better idea of where they want to take the state as well. The poor tax payer is going to shoulder this in the end, and that is something that from the data available a great deal of Rhode Islanders will have a difficult time affording. Rhode Island is running out of funds and stagnating badly. This event is very bad news for the people living there.
edit: The head of the RIEDC just resigned!
The people in the EDC who were involved with this should be fired/let go. The EDC itself needs restructuring and a better idea of where they want to take the state as well. The poor tax payer is going to shoulder this in the end, and that is something that from the data available a great deal of Rhode Islanders will have a difficult time affording. Rhode Island is running out of funds and stagnating badly. This event is very bad news for the people living there.
edit: The head of the RIEDC just resigned!
AlphaTwo00
Member
IIRC, ~800 jobs within 10 years. (This is regarding UbiTO, not 38 Studios)
Way too ambitious for a new company just starting to get established. Plus throwing together a team made up of big names and hoping it'd all work out.
And 800 employees? That seems absolutely, ridiculously bloated compared to the size of some other game developers that have multiple simultaneous projects.
And 800 employees? That seems absolutely, ridiculously bloated compared to the size of some other game developers that have multiple simultaneous projects.
Tell me about it. You know, I really admire Curt's ambition and thought the love for what he was doing was really refreshing to see. He always seemed like a big kid getting to live his dream and make games. Hopefully they come through the storm of all this somehow.
Sad. Hate seeing crap like this. Regardless of the particulars of how it all went down, it doesnt reflect well on the industry and certainly doesnt bode well for us getting new studios in the future that don't have to be weaned on an EA tit to churn out COD clones and watered down games in beloved genres.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
I still find it shady that long back it was mentioned that he put up $35 mil of his own money to support this company, then I read yesterday that 38 has only borrowed $4 mil from him, and he's already been paid back with the taxpayer guaranteed funds even as the company and it's employees seem to be in real trouble.
I've appreciated his input on the game and have been excited for Copernicus for a while, but I'm starting to think this has been a mismanaged boondoggle from the get-go. It paints the whirlwind PR tour he went on to sell Reckoning seem more like desperation than passion.
If Rhode Island gets the IP, are they going to get Seth Macfarlane to make a series out of it? ;p
I've appreciated his input on the game and have been excited for Copernicus for a while, but I'm starting to think this has been a mismanaged boondoggle from the get-go. It paints the whirlwind PR tour he went on to sell Reckoning seem more like desperation than passion.
If Rhode Island gets the IP, are they going to get Seth Macfarlane to make a series out of it? ;p
Ninja Scooter
Member
Like MMOs?
Baconsammy
Banned
The entire time Reckoning was coming out I got the impression Curt had never seen the game his own company was releasing before. He was discovering the same things we were at the same time and commenting on them. Not judging him, but if I ran a gaming company I'd be testing every version of the game that was to be our first release. Seemed weird.
Whoever agreed to loan a company 75 million to create a MMO needs to be fired. MMOs by developers that know what the hell they're doing cant seem to survive, what chance to a bunch of noobs have?
Whoever agreed to loan a company 75 million to create a MMO needs to be fired. MMOs by developers that know what the hell they're doing cant seem to survive, what chance to a bunch of noobs have?
Risible
Member
There's no way in hell Schilling will recover from this. He's done as far as gaming goes.
The guy was head of a company that's going to screw taxpayers out of millions of dollars. They produced one game that they promised a patch for but never delivered, but they did manage to get the DLC out the door.
Way too much negativity to overcome, IMO.
He seemed like a nice enough guy here on GAF, but then again if I was pimping a game I'd be nice to you guys too
.There's no way in hell Schilling will recover from this. He's done as far as gaming goes.
The guy was head of a company that's going to screw taxpayers out of millions of dollars. They produced one game that they promised a patch for but never delivered, but they did manage to get the DLC out the door.
Way too much negativity to overcome, IMO.
He seemed like a nice enough guy here on GAF, but then again if I was pimping a game I'd be nice to you guys too
LOL, I am not that naive. He was obviously pimping his game, but by the same token, I just think it is obvious that the guy really loves gaming and was doing something beyond baseball that he truly had a passion for. As a gamer, I simply admire that. Now what I do question is the management and decision making all around. As others have noted, it looks like cluster-fuck of epic proportions.
Most people are against it unless it benefits them personally.
I'm sure you're upset (if you live in Rhode Island good for you?) but that isn't how it works. The point of having a company is that the company is responsible for the fees, the lawsuits, etc. instead of your personal self.
Onto the other side: I was incredibly hyped for the game... more than Skyrim and etc. but I have to say that ignoring everything else (how easy the game is, how bland the world is) where they really messed up is the game is just not interesting at all.
I was hyped on the game and yet maybe got 6 hours out of it before I realized I was just flat out having no fun at all. It is well realized but bland, uninteresting, and boring.
And that makes me sad because I try not to get excited for that very reason when it comes to games
KibblesBits
Member
Of course I know that's not how it works. But it would be a great solution for a terrible situation in my opinion.
There's no way in hell Schilling will recover from this. He's done as far as gaming goes.
The guy was head of a company that's going to screw taxpayers out of millions of dollars. They produced one game that they promised a patch for but never delivered, but they did manage to get the DLC out the door.
Way too much negativity to overcome, IMO.
He seemed like a nice enough guy here on GAF, but then again if I was pimping a game I'd be nice to you guys too
I don't think this means Curt is done with gaming. I assume he still has millions of dollars from his baseball days that could be used to start another company.
Not start-ups that had to borrow millions and then fail on their first product.
Like what exactly?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this studio has only released one game. And it failed to set the world on fire.
They need money.
To get money, you need to sell products.
They don't have a back catalog they can re-package and sell to you 10 different ways, and you can't just shit out a new high production video game in a couple of months to try and generate new revenue.
Glass Rebel
Member
Actually, since they are a dev, they need funding from a publisher for a project they're working on.
Also, if they cut payroll, they incur penalties from Rhode Island for being under the required number of employees. If they move out of Rhode Island, they are responsible for the entirety of the loan immediately.
There's also a rumor floating around that a few weeks back EA quietly told them that they would not be willing to publish a Reckoning 2, so even if they were able to quickly generate a sequel they would need to find a new publisher.
Proposed Law
Member
This is too bad, I hope for the best for 38 Studios. I should have bought two copies of KOA.
GillianSeed79
Member
I don't really have that big of a problem with government subsidies, but does this strike anyone as a really, really risky investment? I didn't even know anything about this until the other day. Of all things to invest in, a large video company that had never released a game before and whose only IP was Amalur and the MMO in development? Did RI lawmakers read any of the recent NPD threads? Would have all those jobs even have remained at 38 Studios while the MMO was in development? Don't publishers usually downsize after a major release?
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