Japan is an important territory, incredibly important. Maybe it's in it's own little bubble because it doesn't paint the picture you'd like it to, but the argument is unnecessary; sales are sales. And it's especially hypocritical if you happen to enjoy games published or developed by Nintendo, Sony, Capcom, Konami, Sega, Square-Enix, Namco, Atlus, etc. How well do you think the 360, or any console, would fare in our superior western societies without those Japanese 3rd parties? Food for thought.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
CVG: Microsoft's next-Xbox silence at GDC a "disastrous mistake"
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
Anticitizen One
Banned
It will get announced this summer, you will all get hyped, most of you will buy it
These threads are for naught
These threads are for naught
ChosenPredator
Banned
basically sounds like people are desperate to know about the xbox
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
The CVG editor is not saying that MSFT should make a public unveiling of the Xbox 3 at GDC, he is saying they should be attending and promoting development on it to all the middle and small developers who will be there.
Hence his main point that console makers are beholden to developers. MSFT not even bothering, apparently, to try and nurture good relations with devs at GDC is what he is calling a mistake.
Uno Venova
Banned
They could have gotten dissatisfied though. Not everyone is happy with a product they bought.
digoutyoursoul
Member
It's been a long gen, the longest gen I've ever known
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
Henry Ford said it first.
NES seemed to go on forever.
that poll is flawed.
nobody knows what Ms has planned for us with Kinect 2 and 720 so to base that future on a flawed poll of the past and as irrational as "motion controls for games" is bullshit.
I wager the majority of what we don't know about what Kinect brings will be to enhance gameplay, not in place of a controller.
that is not addressed in that BS poll or in anyone's perception of Kinect 2 and 720
shinobi602
Member
They won't wait until E3.
Flatline
Banned
What do you expect some kind of a miracle? It still won't have buttons or analog sticks which makes it a shitty control method, hell even better motion control methods like the Wiimote are being shunned by gamers.
no miracle. engineering and technical ingenuity and re-imagination of the UI by designers and intuitive uses of the system by developers.
the 720 will still use buttons and sticks.. this whole "Kinect sucks" argument is a straw argument
Flatline
Banned
Wait, I'm confused weren't you the one talking about Kinect and motion gaming, how is it a strawman then? And how will Kinect2 deal with fundamental problems of Kinect like lack of buttons and analog sticks to progress to genres beyond dance and party games?
I was responding to you.
here
then you brought up that BS online poll which addressed only the gaming aspect of "motion controls" not Kinect which is much more than "motion control" and certainly not Kinect2 which is a marked improvement allegedly allowing more features.
but I am done with you on this as my point is made... good day.
An extra 8 million consoles in Japan is worthless to the majority of 3rd parties. In sheer terms of sales yes PS3 is ahead yearly and will sell more lifetime, those units in Japan are fine for selling games within that country.
I'm not singling Japan out as it favours PS3, it's an anomaly out of every country that sells video-games and you know it.
My point was PS3 may outsell 360 on a yearly basis but mindshare is greater with Xbox.
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
I remember reading the same thing every single year for Microsoft's E3 conferences since E3 2006.
Yeah...
Flatline
Banned
Dude, I brought up that poll because that was exactly what we were discussing in the thread at the moment, if you didn't want to participate in a discussion about what gamers think of Kinect you shouldn't have replied.
Put simply, Microsoft doesn't want people to stop buying Xbox 360s yet. Consumers always associate the announcement of a new system with the dumping of the old. Brisk 360 sales will take a big hit as consumer react by instead saving their money and waiting for next box, especially since its coming this holiday.
Microsoft will probably want to get out in front of this with a price cut and some end of cycle marketing strategies. 360 is a gravy train for them right now - they could sell a million or more units by June easily. Obviously they feel sprinkling Durango all over GDC would be premature at this point, and put all those interim sales at risk.
*edited because being dirty does not make me clever
Microsoft will probably want to get out in front of this with a price cut and some end of cycle marketing strategies. 360 is a gravy train for them right now - they could sell a million or more units by June easily. Obviously they feel sprinkling Durango all over GDC would be premature at this point, and put all those interim sales at risk.
*edited because being dirty does not make me clever
Iacobellis
Junior Member
Not the first time I've seen this on GAF...
Biggest problem for MS it cannot carry a console announcement by itself. It doesnt have enough first party devs with big name games. It needs third party to show off its console. So if third party do not want to show off next gen games right now they have to wait.
Pretty much when next gen madden and COD is ready to be shown..... The announcement for the x360 was on MTV but i think it will be spike this time. Xbox 360 was announce in May so really close to e3. I would see something a month or so before e3.
With the PS4 announcement the really only one big third party game was watch_dogs and we have seen that since last e3. Rest were tech demos.... Dont think MS could do the same and get the same reaction.
Pretty much when next gen madden and COD is ready to be shown..... The announcement for the x360 was on MTV but i think it will be spike this time. Xbox 360 was announce in May so really close to e3. I would see something a month or so before e3.
With the PS4 announcement the really only one big third party game was watch_dogs and we have seen that since last e3. Rest were tech demos.... Dont think MS could do the same and get the same reaction.
Until we get to a point where PS4's are on the shelf while MS still hasn't made an announcement, these articles are stupid.
We're an extreme ADHD culture. We don't care that MS hasn't announced anything yet, as we have no alternative system to actually BUY yet. All we have are promises from Sony. MS will announce prior to the PS4 release so all of this "silence is a mistake" crap will be long forgotten.
We're an extreme ADHD culture. We don't care that MS hasn't announced anything yet, as we have no alternative system to actually BUY yet. All we have are promises from Sony. MS will announce prior to the PS4 release so all of this "silence is a mistake" crap will be long forgotten.
clean your monitor.
I did want to participate. So I called the poll and the suggestion that "we have decided"... Bullshit as it related to 720 and this thread and the assumption that it has anything to do with 720 in any way
bullshit because that poll has nothing to do with Kinect 2 and 720 because people who participated in that poll do not know what "motion controls" means in the context of Kinect 2 or 720.
no info about how it will be used has been released yet and as was pointed out , they do not know what they don't know yet When people see how it will be used it might surprise a lot of people, maybe not but we won't know until MS reveals it. and people get a chance to see if they like it
it's not that hard of a concept to grasp
I'd say MS's problem is how to carry a multi console business model.
Sony does last gen/current gen and a handheld. And for decades carried multi tiered model devices from walkmen, phones, vhs/dvd players etc.
Microsoft likes to kill off last gen and push people toward their new products. I'm basing this on their OS's releases/support, servers etc. Its their DNA to cut off the old and push the new releases.
Etheeeer.
It really doesn't.
It's not like if they don't show it at GDC the world will collapse and a alien race from the center core will take over.
Media acting like a bunch of females on there period, its disgusting.
Flatline
Banned
So are you or aren't you interested what gamers think and the the gaming aspect of motion controls? (because that's what the poll was about) If you are then it brings us back to the discussion of expecting miracles from Kinect2 and the question you didn't answer:
How will Kinect2 deal with fundamental problems of Kinect like lack of buttons and analog sticks to progress to genres beyond dance and party games?
Exactly my point... just as you tell me I can not point out exactly how it will improve, you can not tell me how a group of pretty smart engineers and developers who are basing the entire UI around an improved version of voice and visual interaction will NOT be able to give us something that we want that we have not yet thought of or know that we wanted.
gamers don't know what they would be missing yet, so that poll is bullshit in relation to 720.
show me the same poll next year
or NPD results
Kinect 2 is not Kinect 1. Just being standard in every machine changes the dynamic in a huge way and the hardware and software has allegedly been improved.
Flatline
Banned
I can tell you from an educated guess that it won't do miracles so voice and visual interaction will in no way replace buttons and analog sticks thus it'll continue being useful only for a couple of casual genres. You can quote me on that later.
indeed... GDC is not about public anyway... it is about developers... if you want developers to develop for your future console, you talk to them about it where they are at - GDC.
Developers like being courted... like being talked to... like being helped... if your competitor is going all around courting them, offering help, free kits and what not, and you are sitting closed in your office thinking if we build it, they will come, you are probably doing it wrong.
Again, this has nothing to do with public, it has to do with devs... when it comes to public, you can announce it day before it ships... but for devs, you need to court them 0.5-5 years before you want their game on your console.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
i dont think they have. far from it. motion controls thus far have been pretty lacking.
Flatline
Banned
We had an entire generation where the #1 console had motion controls and they didn't succeed at showing us the control method's worth and you think it'll happen now that motion controls are becoming marginalized?
I love it when people try to dismiss sales in Japan as somehow having no relevance to anything. If you look at the success of the 360, you could say the US and UK exist in its own little bubble. But you'd have to be an idiot to say that.
Baconsammy
Banned
Really?
Sony showed:
- A mascot game. Microsoft owns a mascot game
- A racing game. Microsoft owns a racing game
- A shooter. Microsoft has shooters
- inFamous. Microsoft has Crackdown
- A bunch of people waggling sticks to make puppets dance. Microsoft has Kinect
Games won't be the differentiator between the two. Services will. And to a degree, specs.
I'm pretty sure Microsoft could easily do what Sony did at their reveal. That's not the hard part. The hard part is actually launching it successfully.
That's really funny, I didn't make that connection until now
shinra-bansho
Member
That's a relatively limited view on western society. EuroGAF presumably takes issue.
Japan being a distinct market is actually more likely to result in games being made for one platform over another. It's the reason why a Final Fantasy being exclusive is conceivable (although imo, unlikely); because a third of the game's sales come from Japan.
Meanwhile, regardless of your assertion that the West, or rather your highly limited "West" and the XBOX are like peas in a pod, Western third party publishers are well aware they have a considerable audience on both the PlayStation and XBOX platforms. There are a cumulative ~30M PS3s in the US and UK; ignoring the rest of the West, since apparently they're inconsequential.
So yes, Japan is an anomaly in that one console essentially consumes 90% of the market, while the Western market is more evenly divided. Western publishers have no intention of ignoring either, nor could they even if they wanted to.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
yup, there's a ton of room from improvement, both in software and hardware, i dont think we've scratched the surface at all.
soulassssns
Banned
Opinions, What is yours then?
Flatline
Banned
My point isn't that the developers for some crazy reason didn't want to scratch the surface for 7 whole years, it's that they couldn't because there's nothing to scratch, motion controls are as useless and superficial as this gen proved they are.
Reluctant-Hero
Member
GDC or not, this whole announcement game IS Microsoft 's game to lose. What ever they chose to do between now and E3 is going to be extremely interesting to watch.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
Please explain the logic of how "mindshare" is greater on the 360 when it's getting outsold world wide?
Gemüsepizza
Member
You realise that what we have seen until now was just a teaser? And that Sony has a lot more titles in production, which they will save for E3?
Iacobellis
Junior Member
They were a fad that only lasted during the Wii's early days. What really could make an impact is touch-enabled games. No clue how that would work on a console, but it seems to be much more popular.
packed in every box and more resources available that do not take away from the core game's needs could make a big difference on that front
shinobi602
Member
I don't believe they will lump the biggest Xbox reveal in history into their E3 conference. Sony will be bringing a ton of PS4 news, and almost certainly will reveal the console itself. Nintendo will most likely push the Wii U HARD this E3.
I don't think Microsoft will want the reveal of their brand new system to get muddled in E3. They held a specialized separate event for Xbox 360 in 2005, away from E3. They wanted all eyes on it, all the spotlight on it and everyone talking about it. That's why they gave it its own event, and they'll do that this time. Major Nelson also tweeted after the PS4 announcement mockingly saying "who talks about a new console without even showing it?"
They'll definitely show it at their own event.
That gives them plenty of breathing room to talk about everything else at their E3 conference, which could be games, price, SKUs, etc.
Also this:
Iacobellis
Junior Member
My guess is the same price as other hardware. GameStop does $50 USD across the board.
Yeah but GameStop isn't taking pre-orders yet.
Baconsammy
Banned
Gemüsepizza;51506361 said:
I responded to a comment that said Microsoft couldn't handle a reveal like Sony's without tons of third party support. He was wrong. Sony showed nothing that Microsoft couldnt easily match in regards to games. And you realize that Microsoft has a lot of games in production too, right? I'd wager that the third party involvement at Microsoft's reveal is going to be more substantial than what we saw at Sony's. Maybe that's a bad bet, but I doubt it.
Touch and voice controls/commands, I think. But not touch in the way Nintendo is doing it, where you need to look away from the TV, but rather touch in the way Sony is doing it.