Yeah thinking about it that way I guess it's better to remove this talk from the OT.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Dark Souls 2 Lighting changes/Downgrade
- Thread starter Moral Panic
- Start date
Actually analyzing the reality of the situation and explaining the ramifications that it has on the game?
Sure some people are being unreasonable but that doesn't invalidate the topic. This is a place where we can safely post comparisons and discuss these things without completely derailing the main thread.
When there's nothing left to say and this discussion has run its course the thread will just sink to the bottom and that'll be that.
I believe in you bud. Give us a game worthy of the Souls name!
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Yikes at that Mirror Knight picture.
I hope the PC version is saved. Aha.
These are the current numbers atm.
And, I imagine there are some babies that didn't even bother with the PC version because of GFWL.. so, they could be considerably better for Dark Souls 2. Hype!
I know I never had a problem getting invaded.
And, vice-versa.
Just to let everyone know, there is a PvP event going on right now in the Kiln of the First Flame.
I don't think those are normal Dark Souls numbers.
But just look at the huds. It's clear that the newer shot has gamma/brightness cranked way up on it.
Marvel
could never
Holy shit!
Is the top image PC?
First time I've seen this shot, that's crazy. Please tell me that's PC vs Console.
Aretak
Member
I don't really care what it looks like to be honest. I thought Dark Souls was a step back from Demon's Souls anyway in terms of graphics, with the trade-off of not dropping to 10fps every time you break a destructible object. From aren't really the most technically accomplished developer, so it's good job their games are great fun to play.
Top is PS3 demo, bottom is 360 final. The PS3 final shouldn't look too different from 360 though.
Fair enough!
Oh and the people screaming bloody murder at From Software and calling them liars/thieves/scum really need to take a step back.
Clearly this wasn't done to deceive people, software development is hard and something came up that forced their hand. I'm not condoning the changes but let's not go crazy here either.
More transparency like what Kojima did with Ground Zeroes is the way to go in a situation like this though. Atleast that way customers can make an informed decision. I wish From would show the PC version at max settings so I could know if I should wait.
Clearly this wasn't done to deceive people, software development is hard and something came up that forced their hand. I'm not condoning the changes but let's not go crazy here either.
More transparency like what Kojima did with Ground Zeroes is the way to go in a situation like this though. Atleast that way customers can make an informed decision. I wish From would show the PC version at max settings so I could know if I should wait.
Hey don't underestimate what can be done with SweetFX.
Of course you wont be adding lighting that isn't there, but you can definitely change the saturation and make it look more vibrant.
Vanilla looks orders of magnitude better than that hideous sweetfx shot. Yikes.
Gozer the Gozerian
Member
Holy shit!
Ok so I totally believe people talking about this and it's obvious from the photo comparisons that a change/downgrade happened, but if I recall this fight takes place during a lightning storm and a flash of lightning is what is causing the harsh environmental lighting/shadowing in that first pic, whereas the 2nd pic is taken between lightning flashes.
Shouldn't a more fair and accurate comparison be a screen from the final build taken during a flash of lightning?? Unless they just removed the lightning storm in which case never mind lol.
SlasherJPC
Banned
Please tell me this is still in the retail release with all the atmosphere and lighting effects!
If I get to this part and it is like you say in comparison to that screenshot I'm going to return my copy.Yes, definitely, unless something changed in the day 1 patch.
That area and the painting hallway shown in the gameplay reveal have suffered the most from what I've seen. The painting hallway was borderline unrecognizable.
This place is all grey now until you turn on the lights and it looks like a red light district, a grey room with a red tint overlayed on top. No contrast, no atmosphere.
That is not an acceptable change, without prior warning, for $70.
Why not?
Please tell me this is still in the retail release with all the atmosphere and lighting effects!
I've seen the area. Looks AWFUL.
I've seen the fight being played in the final build. I'm the one who took that screengrab of the stream. It still takes place during a lightning storm and the shadows still reflect that. But the overall tone and general lighting model is completely different. It all looks flat and dull, some stuff also seemed removed like the awesome water splashes that would appear when the knight lands or slams his sword. Not 100% sure on that because it was admittedly not the best quality stream so I won't say those are definitely out.
In general though It just looked "off", like the preview video was the final polished version and the release build was some kind of alpha build. The room before that fight looked amazing in the preview and it was really boring in the final release. Totally killed the tension they were going for.
I hope you're right, because the second picture looks godawful(gamma doesn't help).
Yes, definitely, unless something changed in the day 1 patch.
That area and the painting hallway shown in the gameplay reveal have suffered the most from what I've seen. The painting hallway was borderline unrecognizable.
This place is all grey now until you turn on the lights and it looks like a red light district, a grey room with a red tint overlayed on top. No contrast, no atmosphere.
That sounds dreadful, and not in the kind of way I'd like to describe a location from a Souls game as dreadful.
But since the lighting engine is already made and working, I really hope they include it in the PC release. Especially if console performance was the reason it was turned off.
Wolfe
Member
I'll never understand these types of reactions, as if the developers are making decisions for malicious reasons or something. Some people need to get a grip.
Yep
Fallout-NL
Member
Sweet baby jesus please let that stuff be in the PC version.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
It may not be malice, but if the retail version is going to look significantly different from what they have been showing us for a year, then I think it's a good enough reason to be pissed.
Nobody likes to be bait'n switched.
SlasherJPC
Banned
I... I... FUCK! I'm still excited about the game but I might just have to double dip on PC if that's the case and there is no update to fix the lighting. Does anyone has footage or gif of the retail console version to compare? I'd love to see it.
Seriously, I'm sick of seeing this kind of reaction. It applies in certain cases where developers clearly try to run away with peoples money but that's very rare.
It's the same thing as saying the game is broken because of this downgrade, it's not. It's just severely compromised.
I agree. It's absolutely misleading. It's absolutely not okay to mislead customers buying your $60 product like this.
This industry blows.
Like I said above, there is no way From would have scrapped that lighting engine completely considering how much they were showing it off and bragging.
I am pretty damn sure it is PC exclusive. They said PC was the lead platform, so I guess it makes sense.
StoppedInTracks
Member
I knew there was something off with the lighting and people still kept downplaying it or denying it or called me things.
Just look at the mirror knight comparison. I feel dumbfounded when I see this.
The difference is pretty stark.
I hope From made the PC version at least look like the initial build.
This game could be B&W for all I care but isn't the above comparison invalid? In the first shot there is a lightning strike in the skybox and that is why it is shadowed so good (see the IGN video for the full battle scene).
The 2nd screen should also capture the same moment.
Wolfe
Member
I'm not saying people can't be pissed (even though I still think it's silly to get angry over shit like this, just my opinion), but I'll save my judgement until the game is at least out.
Besides if it's really that bad in someones eyes they could always just not buy it, vote with your wallet and all that. Besides you can still complain about something without getting pissed off and calling the dev scum etc. Just comes off as petty to me.
How the fuck is is misleading? Sure they might not be mentioning that a particular vid or screen is PC version but you're an informed consumer, wait until the game is out and rent it or something to see for yourself. You don't have to go out and pick it up day one without looking into it more.
I totally understand getting upset/disappointed at what appears to be a downgrade visually but this is a far cry from shit like what Ubi seems to like doing.
Maybe I've just got a different midset on these things since I usually pick games up later when the price has been reduced at bit.
SlasherJPC
Banned
For those playing the game, about how far in the mirror knight battle? Going to try and find footage on a walk through.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Don't suppose you or anyone else could somehow show a comparison? I'm interested to see more and more examples of just what level of gimped it now resembles. It sounds like theyve drained all the contrast and colour out of the game with this move.
Wish we could apply enough pressure on From and Bamco to show what the PC version looks like in the same areas. Souls games are my favourite of the generation, so I want to enjoy this to the max and not have that sinking "oh I've paid for the broken version because I'm impatient" vibe throughout.
Goddammit. If there was one game I never wanted to experience a downgradeton on, it was this. Durante pls. Hold me.
Fried Food
Banned
If that's the case they need to say so. It's very deceiving not to. People are about to spend 60 dollars. They showed the console version with good lighting and then took it out and sold people a different product
CountAntonius
Member
The game has anywhere from 4-7k at any given time.
The top shot is during a lightning flash, so the shadows and lighting are much more prominent. A comparison with the arena without the lightning is a less drastic difference, but there's still an obvious difference in the lighting for the walls and the reflective armor of the [strikethrough]Mirror[/strikethrough] Looking Glass Knight.
Also, the lightning was badass, so if it's gone completely, fuck you From.
I saw Ken go through there
Same area except looks really flat and bland. No mage at the end of the hall just a boss fog door
There is no archive of it that I am aware of.
This is borderline dishonesty by omission to me. It's unacceptable for a game to look this much worse after you already show it to the public and you don't tell them you had to downgrade it. I hope they release some sort of public statement to atone for this embarrassment.
By the way, broken or severely compromised, those are both shitty things. It's absurd that you're basically impying "it's not broken, it's severely compromised, no big deal lol!"
I'm waiting till I play the game myself but the anger from others is totally justified.
Krusenstern
Banned
The shocking thing is: Both screens are taken during a lightning strike.
I fully agree on this point, transparency is the best way to handle a situation like this. Explain why the change happened and why it was necessary.
Chance Hale
Member
Suppose we know why all the screenshots have looked so terrible despite the video footage looking brilliant :/ Really gross move considering how often marketing has brought up the lightning changes and every video released has been represented as the PS3 version. Just looks like they sucked all atmosphere out of some of those areas. Certainly areas that look nice given the one stream I watched for a few minutes but the jarring lack of lighting in places is terrible. They didn't implement baked lighting like previous games to make up for it either.
Wolfe
Member
Jesus christ.
They're working with 256mb of video RAM and 256mb of System RAM on ancient hardware.
EVERY developer shows off "greater-than-reality" visuals at trade shows. It's simply the nature of this industry now. Ryse, Forza, Watchdogs, Aliens Colonial Marines, BF4, everyone. Then they tweak the display settings to showroom "torch mode" contrast and sharpness so that everything "pops" when demoing the game.
People really expected that level of dynamic lighting improvement from the first game to the second game on PS3 for a game series with the size and scope of Dark Souls?
Hell, as long as the graphics are at the same level as DS1, or even if they're BELOW DS1, it's cool as long as the framerates are better than they were in DS1.
EVERY developer shows off "greater-than-reality" visuals at trade shows. It's simply the nature of this industry now. Ryse, Forza, Watchdogs, Aliens Colonial Marines, BF4, everyone. Then they tweak the display settings to showroom "torch mode" contrast and sharpness so that everything "pops" when demoing the game.
People really expected that level of dynamic lighting improvement from the first game to the second game on PS3 for a game series with the size and scope of Dark Souls?
Hell, as long as the graphics are at the same level as DS1, or even if they're BELOW DS1, it's cool as long as the framerates are better than they were in DS1.
Dude, I didn't mean to say it wasn't a big deal at all, did you see the posts I've been making? I'm essentially the one who first brought this topic to light, trust me I care about this stuff and I'm really disappointed.
I guess I just wanted to point out that some people were going overboard with their reactions. Anger and disappointment is perfectly fine but calling From scum/thieves/liars blah blah is just a bit much.
I agree that they are not being as forthcoming as they should but people have to realize that the publisher decides on the marketing approach for a title. I doubt we'll ever hear the full story here and just strictly blaming From and going nuts with insults is just a touch ridiculous in my opinion.
That's why I said that people should take a step back, I didn't mean to imply that they shouldn't voice their very legit concerns about the final product.
You must not be familiar with the concept of professionalism. I am.
Their marketing team would not shut up about the supposed new graphics and lighting features in the game. They parroted this in interviews with several media as well. They showed videos and even made a beta for the public. They bullet pointed a feature that does not appear to be present in the final product.
That is misleading the consumers, intentionally apparently because they haven't made a public statement about it. They should have been humble and mentioned that they had to cut corners with the console game to meet certain requirements. It would have been appropriate and thoughtful to do that since they have many consumers have pre-ordered their product under the assumption that this next-gen lighting engine and bullshit like that works like they demonstrated last year. But it doesn't.
Krusenstern
Banned
Only because it's becoming common practice doesn't make it okay if they don't tell us beforehand they would change some things. They could have at least shown the differences between platforms like Kojima did or explain why they had to do this.
The thing is I really loved the way it looked in the initial builds.
Heck, didn't they even say all footage was from PS3?
Changes happen, but this one looks drastic to me.
Okay then I agree. Sorry I had not read your other posts at that time.