Dark Souls 2 Lighting changes/Downgrade

soontroll

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Anyone that has played the PS3 version....

Is this screenshot on Steam


The same place as we see in the first 10 seconds of this video??

If so, all hope is lost, the place has been textured with that moss on the PC version as well, instead of the stone seen in the demo.
People are still doing this? The fact that the area has changed from stone to mossy forest means that they redesigned the area. That's not surprising as it design changes happen in development. There is nothing wrong with this.

What matters is the actual quality of the assets, be they moss or stone textures. I think the PC mossy area screenshot looks quite nice actually. Plenty of atmosphere there compared to the console version.
 

Durante

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People are still doing this? The fact that the area has changed from stone to mossy forest means that they redesigned the area. That's not surprising as it design changes happen in development. There is nothing wrong with this.

What matters is the actual quality of the assets, be they moss or stone textures. I think the PC mossy area screenshot looks quite nice actually. Plenty of atmosphere there compared to the console version.
Yeah, I agree with this. In that particular case it's clearly a redesign which has nothing to do with performance, but rather changing the artistic goal.

OMG. off topic but I would totally buy a definitive edition for Darksouls1 on PS4 if it looks like this.
It wouldn't, a PS4 can't render DS at 8k
I don't think most PCs can either :p
 

Havel

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People are still doing this? The fact that the area has changed from stone to mossy forest means that they redesigned the area. That's not surprising as it design changes happen in development. There is nothing wrong with this.

What matters is the actual quality of the assets, be they moss or stone textures. I think the PC mossy area screenshot looks quite nice actually. Plenty of atmosphere there compared to the console version.
Yep, that is definitely just a redesign. Honestly, the best we can hope for from the PC version is that the lighting, specular highlights etc. makes a come back. Because the level design of the reveal footage is not coming back.
 

Ahasverus

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Everything points to the existence of different builds:
- a retail build, the one that looks like the fucking alpha we have now on consoles and will also be getting on PC
- demo/showcase build which all pretty footage is based on but was never meant to actually look like that in the final game.

The final game has more differences than simply lighting.

Missing torches and different textures:


Lack of light sources and less furniture and other details:


Entirely different textures. Looks like another game:


Different day time, greatly reduced the amount of dragons and a competely different castle:


Again completely different scenery in the same area:


Some mod has to edit the title. There is more going on than just the lighting.
What a scam.
 

Durante

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With a 780 TI it runs like the clappers (gotta turn off SSAO though). But that quality is only really necessary for screenshots. It would look just as good in motion at 4K.
I wouldn't agree with that (that it looks as good in motion at 4k). Well, it does, but that's only due to the inadequate realtime scaling in DSfix (it's possible to do much better ;)).

As for the SSAO, you should be able to run that at quarter resolution (or 1/16th!) and it should still look good.
 

Branduil

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Everything points to the existence of different builds:
- a retail build, the one that looks like the fucking alpha we have now on consoles and will also be getting on PC
- demo/showcase build which all pretty footage is based on but was never meant to actually look like that in the final game.

The final game has more differences than simply lighting.

Missing torches and different textures:


Lack of light sources and less furniture and other details:


Entirely different textures. Looks like another game:


Different day time, greatly reduced the amount of dragons and a competely different castle:


Again completely different scenery in the same area:


Some mod has to edit the title. There is more going on than just the lighting.
There seems to be at least three different versions.
 

UnrealEck

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It's shocking that people are surprised that there's three different "versions". Making a game is a progressive thing. Changes will inevitably happen for visual design reasons or for performance reasons.
 

Baraka in the White House

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It's shocking that people are surprised that there's three different "versions". Making a game is a progressive thing. Changes will inevitably happen for visual design reasons or for performance reasons.
Yeah but the progression shouldn't be like...

Beta 1 -> looking good

Beta 2 -> looking good

Demo -> looking good

Retail -> The fuck?
 

hey_it's_that_dog

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It's shocking that people are surprised that there's three different "versions". Making a game is a progressive thing. Changes will inevitably happen for visual design reasons or for performance reasons.
Of course it's common to see a game not look quite as good as a reveal trailer or target render. And it's not surprising to see gradual downgrades or upgrades through the course of development. However, I invite you to provide an example of another game with such massive differences that were made apparent so suddenly and so late in development.
 

Raide

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It's shocking that people are surprised that there's three different "versions". Making a game is a progressive thing. Changes will inevitably happen for visual design reasons or for performance reasons.
I think what most people are surprised about is how nobody said anything about the changes. Only a few weeks ago we still had footage of this awesome looking game but what we got was very different.

Sure games get developed but they usually start out with the poor thing and then refine on that product. Not unless they have dreamed up some amazing project that they had no real way of fulfilling, then it gets downgraded.
 

zephervack

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This needs to be quoted more. Let me try and illustrate with crappy pictures.



See the first reveal and is quite different to the other three, the lighting is there plus all the other fancy features. By the time it got to TGS, the door frame was wood, not bricks, and has remained the same into the retail version. The position of the torch is the same in the TGS and PS3 Access videos, but since they added a door in the retail version they have moved it back.

TL;DR - Three versions?

1. Initial reveal (April 2013): Awesome lighting, awesome graphics.
2. TGS/PS3 Access (September 2013): Awesome lighting, downgraded graphics.
3. Retail (March 2014): Downgraded (absent?) lighting, downgraded graphics.
Wow, I had not seen this post, makes sense, the version with all the extra geometry was the PC version.

They had a demo with simpler geometry, less detailed textures running in PS3, at this point the lightning still remained.

Retail everything gets simplified further, missing lightning and basic geometry.
 

epmode

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It's shocking that people are surprised that there's three different "versions". Making a game is a progressive thing. Changes will inevitably happen for visual design reasons or for performance reasons.
Right. But showing off these builds not even two months before release is some shady shit.
 

Squalor

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Yeah but the progression shouldn't be like...

Beta 1 -> looking good

Beta 2 -> looking good

Demo -> looking good

Retail -> The fuck?
I understand wanting to aim high with your goals for a game and not feasibly being able to achieve those marks come the deadline, but it would be so much better if publishers were more forthright about what they will actually deliver instead of being so insidious about things.
 

Raide

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Are there any side by sides with demo, console and PC?
Nothing "official" on the PC side but many are wondering if the early stuff we saw was PC with console prompt since the actual retail version looks nothing like it.

It is odd to hear this happened especially hearing them talk about the Next-Gen Engine.
 

XANDER CAGE

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People really shouldn't be shocked by OH MY GOD THREE VERSIONS because it's only natural that changes need to be made as a game progresses through development. Changed geometry ("it's a different castle!!!!!") isn't really the issue.

The issue is still the lighting/specular, which is straight up gone and was never shown to be gone until retail copies made their way out. A core feature of the game is crippled because of it, far more than any changes to how many tables are in certain rooms and whatnot.
 

Krusenstern

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People really shouldn't be shocked by OH MY GOD THREE VERSIONS because it's only natural that changes need to be made as a game progresses through development. Changed geometry ("it's a different castle!!!!!") isn't really the issue.

The issue is still the lighting/specular, which is straight up gone and was never shown to be gone until retail copies made their way out. A core feature of the game is crippled because of it, far more than any changes to how many tables are in certain rooms and whatnot.
Dude, this is straight up misleading. They showed us A and gave us B in the end.

This is fraud if you ask me.
 
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I thought the game was coming out for PS4. When I realized it was ps3/360 I quickly made up my mind not to get it and wait for the superior PC version. DS1 without the fix looked like crap (I assume this was console quality too), am I correct in assuming DS1 and DS2 look similar on the consoles?
 

Squalor

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I thought the game was coming out for PS4. When I realized it was ps3/360 I quickly made up my mind not to get it and wait for the superior PC version. DS1 without the fix looked like crap (I assume this was console quality too), am I correct in assuming DS1 and DS2 look similar on the consoles?
Even putting the obvious degradation out of mind, Dark Souls 2 seems to look worse (graphically) than Dark Souls.
 

epmode

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Dude, this is straight up misleading. They showed us A and gave us B in the end.

This is fraud if you ask me.
Nah, games get downgraded during development somewhat often. Intentionally misrepresenting the game six weeks out is where these guys went off the rails. They even used misleading screenshots on the game box!

It's particularly shitty here because the lighting was directly tied to the gameplay. Torches were a major gameplay component and it's gutted in the final release.
 

Griss

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I just hope that when the next-gen versions release the OT is something along the lines of:

Lighting Returns: Dark Souls II |OT| Properly Dark Souls
 

XANDER CAGE

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Dude, this is straight up misleading. They showed us A and gave us B in the end.

This is fraud if you ask me.
You don't have to tell me twice, I was one of the people pre-release who started complaining about the changes.

It's just that the lighting is the actual game-changing problem.
 

Krusenstern

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Intentionally misrepresenting the game six weeks out is where these guys went off the rails. They even used misleading screenshots on the game box!
Yes. That's what I'm talking about. They mostly sold us on something that barely resembles what we've seen in all the months prior to release.
 

zephervack

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Ok so here is what we know so far.

3 Builds




Reveal April 2013 (probably on PC), exclusive IGN Demo
1. Complex geometry (look at border of the door).
2. More complex textures.
3. Awesome lightning.
4. Small attention to detail like the cobwebs in the tunnel.
5. Normal mapping on walls of tunnel

TGS Demo Sep 2013 (running on non-dev PS3)
1. Keeps awesome lightning.
2. Reduced geometry (border of the door much simpler)
3. Some details removed like the cobweb of the reveal.
4. Textures look simpler than reveal
5. Has better shadows than reveal??

Retail February 2014
1. Lightning gutted
2. Simpler geometry kept from TGS
3. Textures untouched from TGS


Has anyone thought that maybe they couldnt get the lightning to work on the Xbox 360 version, so they decided to remove it from both?
 

RK9039

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Ok so here is what we know so far.

3 Builds




Reveal April 2013 (probably on PC), exclusive IGN Demo
1. Complex geometry (look at border of the door).
2. More complex textures.
3. Awesome lightning.
4. Small attention to detail like the cobwebs in the tunnel.
5. Normal mapping on walls of tunnel

TGS Demo Sep 2013 (running on non-dev PS3)
1. Keeps awesome lightning.
2. Reduced geometry (border of the door much simpler)
3. Some details removed like the cobweb of the reveal.
4. Textures look simpler than reveal
5. Has better shadows than reveal??

Retail February 2014
1. Lightning gutted
2. Simpler geometry kept from TGS
3. Textures untouched from TGS
Great comparison.

The middle one is like the network test we played on the PS3.
 
Jun 6, 2010
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Ok so here is what we know so far.

3 Builds




Reveal April 2013 (probably on PC), exclusive IGN Demo
1. Complex geometry (look at border of the door).
2. More complex textures.
3. Awesome lightning.
4. Small attention to detail like the cobwebs in the tunnel.
5. Normal mapping on walls of tunnel

TGS Demo Sep 2013 (running on non-dev PS3)
1. Keeps awesome lightning.
2. Reduced geometry (border of the door much simpler)
3. Some details removed like the cobweb of the reveal.
4. Textures look simpler than reveal
5. Has better shadows than reveal??

Retail February 2014
1. Lightning gutted
2. Simpler geometry kept from TGS
3. Textures untouched from TGS


Has anyone thought that maybe they couldnt get the lightning to work on the Xbox 360 version, so they decided to remove it from both?
Unlikely since the 360 version runs better than the PS3's.
 

Gbraga

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I just hope that when the next-gen versions release the OT is something along the lines of:

Lighting Returns: Dark Souls II |OT| Properly Dark Souls
Lighting Returns: Dark Souls II |OT|

Dark Souls II |OT| Lighting Intensifies

Dark Souls II |OT| Lighting Returns

Dark Souls II |OT| The Dark Souls of the Dark Souls of Dark Souls
 

SargerusBR

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Reveal build will never be released, best hope for PC version is to be identical to the TGS build
 

omonimo

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Even putting the obvious degradation out of mind, Dark Souls 2 seems to look worse (graphically) than Dark Souls.
This is a big bullshit. I can understand to be disappointed about the downgrade but graphically to me seems notable for ps360. Fps wasn't never a big deal in the whole the series, unfortunately.
 

CheesecakeRecipe

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Mar 27, 2012
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Lighting Returns: Dark Souls II |OT|

Dark Souls II |OT| Lighting Intensifies

Dark Souls II |OT| Lighting Returns

Dark Souls II |OT| The Dark Souls of the Dark Souls of Dark Souls
Lighting Returns: Dark Souls II |OT| They call me mad but I'm just grossly incandescent.
 

CountAntonius

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I'll take a high res 60 fps/1080p version of the tgs build. The game would be beautiful. At least we kinda know what Dark Souls 3 could look like if it goes next gen/PC only.

It most likely runs better because it doesn't have vsync enabled. Vsync drops framerates.
It's also ported from a game developed on PC which has a lot more in common with the 360 vs the PS3. The originals were made with PS3 in mind which explains while they the original was slightly better on PS3.
 

zephervack

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Reveal build will never be released, best hope for PC version is too be identical to TGS build
Did anyone actually play the Reveal demo????

Im starting to think it was prerendered, not to the degree of the CG intro, but to look more like actual gameplay.

As far as I know the reveal was literally little parts cut together in the IGN video. No one saw that version again in any other form, correct?
 

pixlexic

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You can tell there is overall big increases in polygon count to the game coming from ds1.

The character models themselves are probably the noticeable.
 

elyetis

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Ok so here is what we know so far.

3 Builds




Reveal April 2013 (probably on PC), exclusive IGN Demo
1. Complex geometry (look at border of the door).
2. More complex textures.
3. Awesome lightning.
4. Small attention to detail like the cobwebs in the tunnel.
5. Normal mapping on walls of tunnel

TGS Demo Sep 2013 (running on non-dev PS3)
1. Keeps awesome lightning.
2. Reduced geometry (border of the door much simpler)
3. Some details removed like the cobweb of the reveal.
4. Textures look simpler than reveal
5. Has better shadows than reveal??

Retail February 2014
1. Lightning gutted
2. Simpler geometry kept from TGS
3. Textures untouched from TGS


Has anyone thought that maybe they couldnt get the lightning to work on the Xbox 360 version, so they decided to remove it from both?
Wow, as someone who didn't look at any DS2 media since the reveal I'm more than disapointed by that downgrade, and sadly expect it to have hit the PC version too.
The downgrade is Huge.
 

omonimo

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True, but then again, dropping the lighting would have yield performance increases in the PS3 version and yet, it runs poorly.
The weird thing it's why they haven't put the vsync setting options on both. I guess ps3 could run even better of the 360 with vsync totally off. A pity.