Dark Souls 2 Lighting changes/Downgrade

jim2point0

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Here
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That's a straight up redesign.
"Designers, here's this beautiful vertical slice thing that these other guys made for our demo. You need to recreate these areas with this poopy engine and whatever assets you can scrounge up for free on the interwebs. Time is of the essence. Realize that we won't have that gorgeous lighting, so make sure everything is bright and saturated. And always ask yourself: 'can I use less polygons?' Yes."
 

zephervack

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There are some shots on the gmg and steam store that are well above the PS360 build and feature the real time lighting, but given how namco handled the marketing of the PS360 build...yeah...I wouldn't put any stock in them.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykbT03r_9Zo

Got reupped due to the music.
THANK YOU

"Designers, here's this beautiful vertical slice thing that these other guys made for our demo. You need to recreate these areas with this poopy engine and whatever assets you can scrounge up for free on the interwebs. Time is of the essence. Realize that we won't have that gorgeous lighting, so make sure everything is bright and saturated. And always ask yourself: 'can I use less polygons?' Yes."
While you are of course being sarcastic, this is most likely what happened, they had to recreate the whole area using a shittier version of the engine or another engine all together.
 

eot

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Apr 13, 2012
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Oh come on now, there are really nice looking areas. It's just too bad that the majority make it feel like I am playing a PS2 game (almost, and no hyperbole either).
The gameplay matters the most, and it doesn't really fail in that regard (except for the major recycling in enemy design), but much of the good ole Souls atmosphere was DOA.

PS: There's way too many fucking bonfires in this game. There's even one right next to a boss (shitty boss, but still...).
Plenty of bonfires close to bosses in DkS too, Gwyndolin, Stray Demon, Sanctuary Guardian, Centipede Demon etc.
 

Sanctuary

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"Designers, here's this beautiful vertical slice thing that these other guys made for our demo. You need to recreate these areas with this poopy engine and whatever assets you can scrounge up for free on the interwebs. Time is of the essence. Realize that we won't have that gorgeous lighting, so make sure everything is bright and saturated. And always ask yourself: 'can I use less polygons?' Yes."
You know what's ridiculous with the shot on the right? Demon's actually had areas that looked very similar. It makes no sense.

Plenty of bonfires close to bosses in DkS too, Gwyndolin, Stray Demon, Sanctuary Guardian, Centipede Demon etc.
Unless you know which boss I'm talking about, that bonfire was totally unnecessary. There's literally another one not even a minute prior to it!
 

zephervack

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There are some shots on the gmg and steam store that are well above the PS360 build and feature the real time lighting, but given how namco handled the marketing of the PS360 build...yeah...I wouldn't put any stock in them.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykbT03r_9Zo

Got reupped due to the music.

This video should be the first thing in the OP, the reason the press isnt taking us seriously is because its not readily apparent when browsing the OP, the changes are so drastic in the pictures that they probably think they are looking at different areas of the game.
 
Aug 24, 2005
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Yeah, PC version might get the lighting, but look at how well that area is designed in the right hand gif. Look at all the debris, the grass, the mountain range...they aint gonna add that in with an ini hack for the PC version. Its gone, and its not coming back.
That's assuming they took it out at all. I still think it's possible that version exists and has been in development the entire time. Maybe the console versions were split off at some point late in the game and had the equivalent of triage performed on them, rebuilding problem areas and reducing lighting and environment quality in a quick and dirty scramble to get framerates acceptable. Whereas the PC version will look like the original reveal and will be used as a base for eventual PS4/XB1 versions announced at E3. #icanstillhope
 

zephervack

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Im really tempted to get a Custom Firmware PS3 and get the files for the Demo, I have found them online.

1. Is this legal? its just a Demo after all, right?
2. How valuable would it be to have this running?, I have capture hardware to capture 1080p.
 

Polioliolio

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Aug 30, 2012
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Im really tempted to get a Custom Firmware PS3 and get the files for the Demo, I have found them online.

1. Is this legal? its just a Demo after all, right?
2. How valuable would it be to have this running?, I have capture hardware to capture 1080p.
Rule number 1. You don't ask if something is legal.

DEW IT. Do it and show us everything!
 
Sep 11, 2007
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Im really tempted to get a Custom Firmware PS3 and get the files for the Demo, I have found them online.

1. Is this legal? its just a Demo after all, right?
2. How valuable would it be to have this running?, I have capture hardware to capture 1080p.
I aprove of this plan.

Should be alright, is just a demo.
 

Ranik Regana

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Sep 29, 2012
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Why devs keep doing it? Why won't they show graphics that can actually be done on a console? Why I have to suffer each time.
 

pa22word

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Oct 24, 2010
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This shot from the Steam page looks very well-lit to me

All the light *seems* to be coming from actual light sources based on my first cursory glance on it, but I may be wrong.

In the console version everything is lit ambient-ly, so yeah...

It doesn't look anywhere near as high quality as the initial reveal, but I think that's a lost cause at this point.
 

zephervack

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Kamina

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Im really tempted to get a Custom Firmware PS3 and get the files for the Demo, I have found them online.

1. Is this legal? its just a Demo after all, right?
2. How valuable would it be to have this running?, I have capture hardware to capture 1080p.
Make sure this Demo you found is not just a copy of the network test version or something.
 

Polioliolio

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There are 1080p shots on Steam, these are certainly rendered on a PC.

Just taking a look at it, supposing it wasn't too difficult, do you think there would or could be any improvements you could make with a DS2fix?

zephervack said:
Ok, I will try to get my hands on one, I see a couple of custom PS3s in Kijiji, hopefully this works out.

What kind of thing would you guys like to look at, just a play through?

A whole playthrough would be great, but also try to challenge the hardware.. see if it can handle it.
Look directly into special effects, spin the camera spastically, and generally play in a way contrary to what's already been done. Definitely explore the Dark areas with AND without a torch.
etc.
 

epmode

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Jun 7, 2004
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The asset changes are disappointing but the lighting downgrade is criminal. So long as the PC version is confirmed to have the improved lighting, I'll be OK with it.
 

RK9039

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This shot from the Steam page looks very well-lit to me

Yup this shot tells us some of lighting stuff is in the PC version with actual darkness. Reminds me of that corridor section in the reveal gameplay.

I will not be surprised if it does end up being very different to the PS360 versions.
 

Zomba13

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I wouldn't be surprised if those 'PC' shots on Steam and GMG aren't from the actual PC version we'll be getting but from the version after the early demo stuff (with lighting and good geometry) but before retail (the one that was simplified but had the better lighting).
 

epmode

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I wouldn't be surprised if those 'PC' shots on Steam and GMG aren't from the actual PC version we'll be getting but from the version after the early demo stuff (with lighting and good geometry) but before retail (the one that was simplified but had the better lighting).
That's a reasonable concern. If would be GREAT if Namco/From confirmed that the Steam screenshots are from a current build.

It's the Chariot boss area. Looks the same on PS3. Means nothing for the PC version.
NEVERMIND THEN.

I'd still like official word on the lighting in any case.
 

zephervack

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Just taking a look at it, supposing it wasn't too difficult, do you think there would or could be any improvements you could make with a DS2fix?




A whole playthrough would be great, but also try to challenge the hardware.. see if it can handle it.
Look directly into special effects, spin the camera spastically, and generally play in a way contrary to what's already been done. Definitely explore the Dark areas with AND without a torch.
etc.
Thanks for the suggestions, I will have confirmation tonight if the demo can be played or if they blocked it through PSN, I found that it needs to have PSN open and running or it wont run, but that was a couple of months ago.

Also need to make sure that its the TGS Demo and not the Beta Network test.

Oh my goodness what happened to this game?? what happened to the beautiful animations in DS1, anyone remembers the 120fps GIFs?
 

Durante

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Just taking a look at it, supposing it wasn't too difficult, do you think there would or could be any improvements you could make with a DS2fix?
Well, for one, that screenshot doesn't seem to have any SSAO, while the initial footage had very prominent SSAO. I think both that and my work in DS1 has shown that SSAO fits the Dark Souls (1 and 2) art style well, so if the final PC version ships without an AO option (or a very basic one) it could be worth it to improve that.

And downsampling is always nice for overall quality of course.
 

RK9039

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Well, for one, that screenshot doesn't seem to have any SSAO, while the initial footage had very prominent SSAO. I think both that and my work in DS1 has shown that SSAO fits the Dark Souls (1 and 2) art style well, so if the final PC version ships without an AO option (or a very basic one) it could be worth it to improve that.

And downsampling is always nice for overall quality of course.
'Taking it FROM here, again'.

It will fit very well.
 
So I had requested a interview short q/a with the namco bandai community manager before the game was released to the public, and here is the interview. Sadly, it was later that I found the differences in graphics, so I was not able to ask him any questions beforehand since I didn't know. I've hit him up suggesting I have another question to ask but will see if he responds.Nice guy though.
 

Kamina

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I am particularly interested at the highlighted areas further down.
The walls seem to have some sort of parallax occlusion mapping, and also this moisture-effect that even mirrors the torch-flame. ...very similar to the old build videos.

 

zephervack

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I am particularly interested at the highlighted areas further down.
The walls seem to have some sort of parallax occlusion mapping, and also this moisture-effect that even mirrors the torch-flame. ...very similar to the old build videos.

hmmm, nice catch, hopefully someone with the Console version can provide a picture of that place to compare, you are giving me some hope :)
 

Polioliolio

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Well it has occlusion shadows. Either the PC build does have improved lighting, or this is a build that exists somewhere between retail products.