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David Jaffe Accidentally Leaks Details About New Game

Kittonwy said:
But does it go beyond just bringing back an old IP for the sake of bringing back an old IP? What's there other than deathmatch in an arena? How much variety and longevity can you get out of an IP like Twisted Metal? If you look at Warhawk there's a TON of variety because the player controls a character and the character can choose from a variety of vehicles or fight on foot with a variety of weapons, a vehicle combat game might feel much more limited, hopefully they can throw a few twists in there to make things interesting.

You continue to think of Twisted Metal as the game that came out years ago even though Jaffe has said that if they were to make a new TM then they would a "restart" of the franchise. The fact that you bring up Warhawk is interesting, becuase if Warhawk was the same game that came out on the PSone then it would've just been a single player game in which you flew a plane. Instead you got a game where the only thing it really had in common with the original Warhawk was that you could fly a plane. But it was no longer single player and you no longer had to stick with just that plane.
 
Can't believe its been 2 years since the extra twisted edition of Head On came out. They started development on their new game around that time I imagine. So in the end it'll be nearly a 3 year development time....

Damnit Jaffe, I've been waiting too long...show me the goods!
 
Concept17 said:
Can't believe its been 2 years since the extra twisted edition of Head On came out. They started development on their new game around that time I imagine. So in the end it'll be nearly a 3 year development time....

Damnit Jaffe, I've been waiting too long...show me the goods!

Games take time to make. From the ground up 3 years is pretty normal, and if they are using their own engine for it, might take longer.
 
For a lot of people I don't think it is the car combat gameplay they are necessarily looking forward to(Though in all fairness I have lost many hours playing TM2/Black), but rather the chracters. Twisted Metal had some of the greatest characters in gaming and even if you hated the gameplay it would be worth getting through just to get to the ending.
 
One of the amazing phenomenons for me this generation is people yearning for HD remakes. He's making a completely new installment in the series people, why would you prefer an HD remake of TM2?
 
templeusox said:
One of the amazing phenomenons for me this generation is people yearning for HD remakes. He's making a completely new installment in the series people, why would you prefer an HD remake of TM2?

I wouldn't prefer it to whatever he's working on now, but the idea of Twisted Metal 2 with proper online implementation is very appealing.
 
templeusox said:
One of the amazing phenomenons for me this generation is people yearning for HD remakes. He's making a completely new installment in the series people, why would you prefer an HD remake of TM2?
I'd rather have a new title, but I love the old maps enough that I hope they either make a reappearance in some new form (you have to admit that Antarctica was amazing) or get topped (which is likely to happen for Rooftops, since every game has an amazing skyscraper-rooftops level that generally tops the previous one).

I'd love love LOVE a combination of those concepts, in which you drive around on rooftops of skyscrapers while the skyscrapers themselves crumble one by one... but it's probably Too Soon™ for anything like that, even though if anyone's gonna have the balls to do that it's Jaffe.
 
Kittonwy said:
But does it go beyond just bringing back an old IP for the sake of bringing back an old IP? What's there other than deathmatch in an arena? How much variety and longevity can you get out of an IP like Twisted Metal? If you look at Warhawk there's a TON of variety because the player controls a character and the character can choose from a variety of vehicles or fight on foot with a variety of weapons, a vehicle combat game might feel much more limited, hopefully they can throw a few twists in there to make things interesting.

A new TM needs to do a number of things...

New physics. The old arcade style grew tired and old. The driving needs to feel fresh again.
New weapon mechanics. I think they need to go beyond what TM and V8 ever did with weapons on cars. Make it look cool for a missile to attach to the side of your car. New weapons would be an easy addition. There is no reason they would have to stick to just the original set of homing, fire, power...etc...
New characters. Pretty easy to do, as they've done it with every iteration before. However, if this is a reboot, then the characters also need a reboot. (although we've seen characters change before, like Spectre) I think this time around they need to be a bit more believable...something like L4D's characters would be a nice fit.
New tournament style. I doubt we'll see this, but it would be nice to have a bit more expanded tournament. Perhaps add a form of xp or something. Some incentive that makes players want to play through each character's story. Perhaps simply story elements that, after you play through a number of characters, the whole story finally comes together/becomes unlocked.
Customization. Another I doubt we would see, but the idea of a create-your-own-character or even just some form of car customization would be great.

And of course the biggest...

Multiplayer. Its a competitive game that has only barely ever had an online mode. There is so much that could be done here its crazy. They could do any number of different game modes. They could implement a MAG/BF-like mode of attacking targets/points. They could do a CTF where you have to load up the bus full of crazies to fill up your own asylum, they could do a co-op survival mode, a deathmatch, hardcore modes, stats, xp and leveling....so so much could be done.

I just hope they do some of these things...
 
BattleMonkey said:
Games take time to make. From the ground up 3 years is pretty normal, and if they are using their own engine for it, might take longer.

Indeed, I'm aware of as much...just can't believe its been that long already. Add to that the time since Black came out...just makes it seem longer.
 
Jamesearlcash said:
Carmageddon 3

There *is* a Carmaggedon 3, though I don't blame you for having missed it. It had some stupid name like Carmaggedon 2000.

And I'm pretty sure Carmaggedon 4 was announced a few years ago, before being quietly canned.

But yes, I'd love to see a new version.
 
I think a PS3 TM could be awesome. Remember the PS1>PS2 TM transition? Holy shit was TMB so sick in presentation. Levels were huge, characters were bat shit crazy and the cars looked sick as hell. Sweet Tooth's Mech special???

Also detail was amazing back then. I remember looking at Crazy8's(I think that was his name) car gun. When you shot bullets, you could see the gatlin-gun like animation on the side....wow. And the smoke/particle effects and the lighting it produced by rockets??

Im ready for a PS3 TM. I hope its like Black. The dark tone fits the franchise perfectly. I never liked the others as they seemed cartoony-like for a game about death and weird endings.
 
Cruzader said:
I think a PS3 TM could be awesome. Remember the PS1>PS2 TM transition? Holy shit was TMB so sick in presentation. Levels were huge, characters were bat shit crazy and the cars looked sick as hell. Sweet Tooth's Mech special???

Also detail was amazing back then. I remember looking at Crazy8's(I think that was his name) car gun. When you shot bullets, you could see the gatlin-gun like animation on the side....wow. And the smoke/particle effects and the lighting it produced by rockets??

Im ready for a PS3 TM. I hope its like Black. The dark tone fits the franchise perfectly. I never liked the others as they seemed cartoony-like for a game about death and weird endings.

Yeah, the game needs that sinister vibe for sure, but the actual levels need to be more varied like they were in TM2. The all-dark levels of Black grew tired quickly. Paris is also still my favorite level.

SolidSnakex said:
As long as Twister is back then there's no way this game can go wrong.

One of the few characters I hardly played. Mostly due to his close range special in combination with weak armor. I personally want to just see Spectre.
 
SolidSnakex said:
As long as Twister is back then there's no way this game can go wrong.
So delightfully overpowered in Hong Kong in TM2 with all those walls to bash enemies into :D
Cruzader said:
I think a PS3 TM could be awesome. Remember the PS1>PS2 TM transition? Holy shit was TMB so sick in presentation. Levels were huge, characters were bat shit crazy and the cars looked sick as hell. Sweet Tooth's Mech special???

Also detail was amazing back then. I remember looking at Crazy8's(I think that was his name) car gun. When you shot bullets, you could see the gatlin-gun like animation on the side....wow. And the smoke/particle effects and the lighting it produced by rockets??

Im ready for a PS3 TM. I hope its like Black. The dark tone fits the franchise perfectly. I never liked the others as they seemed cartoony-like for a game about death and weird endings.
I prefer the TM2 tone somewhat - Black is a better game in almost every way (though blowing up the Eiffel Tower is probably still my favorite thing in the whole series - the combat's not as good in TM2 for the most part but I still adore some of those levels) but I felt that the 'dark' thing came across as sort of Hot Topic-ish at times, instead of the more self-consciously silly endings in TM2. My guess is that it'll be another stylistic departure, though. If you're going to go DARK dark, it ought to be genuinely upsetting stuff like Silent Hill 2, and I can't see that really working in the series. I mean, Black had a serial killer clown who was treated seriously in the cutscenes, and during the game his ice cream truck transformed into a robot. The latter half of that sentence is what I see as the 'tone' of the series and what the cutscenes ought to emulate.

I'm hoping for a return to the lovely motion-comic style that Jaffe seems to enjoy, seen in TM2, TMBlack, and God of War 1. inFamous did it as well. It's a fun style and a good way to make the most of the cutscene budget, I feel.
 
Well in the Head On bonus material, it seemed to indicate that Jaffe was not huge fan of the really dark turn the game took with Black, so assume we will see the game go more back to the fun style of universe and less into the sinister with the next incarnation.

Concept17 said:
Indeed, I'm aware of as much...just can't believe its been that long already. Add to that the time since Black came out...just makes it seem longer.

How long it's really been in development is also hard to say. They just started up their new company around the time of the release of Head On for PS2 so how far along was it even then? Was it all just still in concept stages at that point? I think it was obvious that perhaps too much was revealed too soon or hinted at that players are all wanting to hear more, when the game hasn't really been officially announced.
 
Did anyone play TM Small Brawl on PS1? It came out like right as PS2 was coming out. I just remember TM3 and 4 being SUCH SHIT. I used to curse 989 Studios. Oh singletrac...
 
BattleMonkey said:
Well in the Head On bonus material, it seemed to indicate that Jaffe was not huge fan of the really dark turn the game took with Black, so assume we will see the game go more back to the fun style of universe and less into the sinister with the next incarnation.



How long it's really been in development is also hard to say. They just started up their new company around the time of the release of Head On for PS2 so how far along was it even then? Was it all just still in concept stages at that point? I think it was obvious that perhaps too much was revealed too soon or hinted at that players are all wanting to hear more, when the game hasn't really been officially announced.

My guesses it was just in pre-production at that time. I'm betting they'll have used the Warhawk engine to save some time.

Y2Kev said:
Did anyone play TM Small Brawl on PS1? It came out like right as PS2 was coming out. I just remember TM3 and 4 being SUCH SHIT. I used to curse 989 Studios. Oh singletrac...

The only TM I never played.

3 and 4 weren't bad games in their own right... like Jaffe said...they just weren't Twisted Metal.
 
badcrumble said:
I prefer the TM2 tone somewhat - Black is a better game in almost every way (though blowing up the Eiffel Tower is probably still my favorite thing in the whole series - the combat's not as good in TM2 for the most part but I still adore some of those levels) but I felt that the 'dark' thing came across as sort of Hot Topic-ish at times, instead of the more self-consciously silly endings in TM2. My guess is that it'll be another stylistic departure, though. If you're going to go DARK dark, it ought to be genuinely upsetting stuff like Silent Hill 2, and I can't see that really working in the series. I mean, Black had a serial killer clown who was treated seriously in the cutscenes, and during the game his ice cream truck transformed into a robot. The latter half of that sentence is what I see as the 'tone' of the series and what the cutscenes ought to emulate.

I'm hoping for a return to the lovely motion-comic style that Jaffe seems to enjoy, seen in TM2, TMBlack, and God of War 1. inFamous did it as well. It's a fun style and a good way to make the most of the cutscene budget, I feel.

Here's how Jaffe feels about Black

In general, what makes a good Twisted Metal level? What are the key elements that need to be in there?

Several people have different opinions on that. I think you definitely need a good balance between open-air spaces [and] spaces in the level that are cordoned off and are not just a big open arena. In Twisted Metal Black we made the mistake of having everything flow into everything else. And instead of feeling like a fun arena to fight in, it felt like you were fighting in a big open field that just had some really pretty art all around it.

I look back at Twisted Metal 2, where I was doing some of the design, and there really was more of a sense of here is the upper-class suburbian home area, but the only way to get there is to take this winding, curvy road. Bottleneck areas, open arena areas, areas that flow into each other but only in very constrictive ways. Like if you want to shoot somebody and he runs into, say, the movie theater, there’s only two places he can come out, and there’s a vantage point where you can fire, where you can sit and wait and hit him at either end depending on how he comes out.

More standoffs, more bottlenecks. Building chase scenarios, building places where you can fight over the best pickups. One of the things that we did on Lost is, I went back and ripped out about 30 percent of the variety of pickups. Because I realized that in Black, we simply had too many weapon options for the player to the point that everything ended up getting diluted. Every pickup felt like it had the same value. And I remember in Twisted Metal 2 where there were a lot of really fun fights fights over the health, or the power missile. And I wanted to go back and recapture that feeling of tension and desire in terms of the pickup game. It’s a part of a good idea for a Twisted Metal map, to make sure that you build areas where people can chase for a pickup, or there’s a good finding area for a pickup.

Those are the things that come to mind immediately. I’m sure there are other nuanced things, like you don’t want the roads to be too narrow. These cars don’t really drive like cars. If they drove like cars, the game wouldn’t work that well. So they have to have lots of room to do lots of 180s, and things like that.

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2008/01/interview-david/
 
BattleMonkey said:
Well in the Head On bonus material, it seemed to indicate that Jaffe was not huge fan of the really dark turn the game took with Black, so assume we will see the game go more back to the fun style of universe and less into the sinister with the next incarnation.

Probably fun but brutal. At DICE he seemed to suggest that the way his next game would be skinned would be a cross between Calling All Cars and God of War. To me that says a mix of over-the-top/slapstick/brutal humour, but yeah, not bordering into sinister.
 
SolidSnakex said:
Some pretty good points. Black had some really great moments though... the prison ship was pretty fucking cool. I wonder how you'd remedy that - more players per map and more bottlenecks? Simply shrinking the maps would feel like a downgrade, I think - Black had an excellent focus on making the maps very interesting so for the most part they weren't just little arenas.

I hope the final boss isn't as crazy hard as Warhawk was :(
 
templeusox said:
One of the amazing phenomenons for me this generation is people yearning for HD remakes. He's making a completely new installment in the series people, why would you prefer an HD remake of TM2?

I wouldn't prefer it to a new game, I would prefer it to be in addition to a new game. TM2 is just flat out fucking awesome, and perhaps my favorite game ever. As long as my hands and eyes work I will play that game. I would just rather do so with clean graphics and in 4-8 player online deathmatch.

TMB, while a good game just isn't anywhere near as good as TM2, imo.
 
SolidSnakex said:

That's really more just how he feels about its level design than the game itself. Its good to see his comments on the pickups though. Thinking back he was very right. I can still remember many of the locations to grab pickups in TM2. I don't think I can recall any specific ones from Black. They were just more meaningful in 2.

I mean, everyone knew where the remote was in Paris. Or the health in the subway of HK. Etc etc....

gofreak said:
Probably fun but brutal. At DICE he seemed to suggest that the way his next game would be skinned would be a cross between Calling All Cars and God of War. To me that says a mix of over-the-top/slapstick/brutal humour, but yeah, not bordering into sinister.

Just like TM2. Though I hope its a tad more 'crazy' and a bit less 'silly'.
 
badcrumble said:
I hope the final boss isn't as crazy hard as Warhawk was :(

He's not referring specifically to Warhawk here, but he did touch on Black's difficulty

Twisted Metal: Head-On seems very focused toward the casual market, there’s nothing really elaborate, just pick up and play — do you want to keep focus on these kinds of experiences, going forward?

I don’t know if I would — you know, these days, the casual market’s definition — this certainly isn’t for the Diner Dash crowd, if that’s what you mean. But you know, it’s value-priced, it’s made to get fans of the series to come back to it, it’s made to get new people to give it a try. But it’s definitely a hardcore game. It hasn’t lost any of its intent from — what we have done is we’ve learned our lesson from Twisted Metal Black, which we feel was way too hard and turned off a lot of potential players, and so we did a lot of playtesting with this title to make sure that at least the medium, default mode was something the average player could get through and have a good time with. But I would be surprised if people played it and thought it was a casual game.
 
SolidSnakex said:
He's not referring specifically to Warhawk here, but he did touch on Black's difficulty

Your avatar perfectly describes my desire to SEE this game.

ohmnuf.gif
 
Concept17 said:
A new TM needs to do a number of things...

New physics. The old arcade style grew tired and old. The driving needs to feel fresh again.
New weapon mechanics. I think they need to go beyond what TM and V8 ever did with weapons on cars. Make it look cool for a missile to attach to the side of your car. New weapons would be an easy addition. There is no reason they would have to stick to just the original set of homing, fire, power...etc...
New characters. Pretty easy to do, as they've done it with every iteration before. However, if this is a reboot, then the characters also need a reboot. (although we've seen characters change before, like Spectre) I think this time around they need to be a bit more believable...something like L4D's characters would be a nice fit.
New tournament style. I doubt we'll see this, but it would be nice to have a bit more expanded tournament. Perhaps add a form of xp or something. Some incentive that makes players want to play through each character's story. Perhaps simply story elements that, after you play through a number of characters, the whole story finally comes together/becomes unlocked.
Customization. Another I doubt we would see, but the idea of a create-your-own-character or even just some form of car customization would be great.

And of course the biggest...

Multiplayer. Its a competitive game that has only barely ever had an online mode. There is so much that could be done here its crazy. They could do any number of different game modes. They could implement a MAG/BF-like mode of attacking targets/points. They could do a CTF where you have to load up the bus full of crazies to fill up your own asylum, they could do a co-op survival mode, a deathmatch, hardcore modes, stats, xp and leveling....so so much could be done.

I just hope they do some of these things...
I feel the complete opposite on just about every one of your points. :(

They can change the feel up a bit, but I can't see a departure from the arcade style as good. Like Jaffe said, these do not control like real cars.

I'd like new weapons, but again, like Jaffe said, as long they aren't dilluted and each one is significantly unique.(H3 was a victim of this, imo)

I'd like to see some new characters, as there are each ititeration, but I don't think it needs a clean slate when it already has such colorful characters, neither do I want them to be ordinary like L4D.

Character creation seems like a waste of man-hours that could be better allocated elsewhere. I've never seen a character creator that I really liked. I agree some customization may be nice. Swappable options for specials, paint jobs, and so forth.

I have mixed feelings on the exp concept in tourney mode. I do hope they enhance the single player/coop campaign somehow.

Agree on expanding multi.
 
Xater said:
It also didn#t help that the game was horrible.
I had fun with it. In fact, I would have re-purchased it for the PC if it ran well. But it's a moot point because Split/Second is the game Full Auto should have been.

Scrap Metal is dropping in March for XBLA and it has a car combat mode, although racing is the main focus.
 
I'll post that blurred note. It's the best I can find with a quick search. But I'm sure there's a bigger version out there with more detail.

wuezb9.jpg
 
I remember a fuller version conceptualising gameplay that wasn't traditional TM. I guess I really wanna say... don't give up hope of something new (for those that are doubting).
 
badcrumble said:
HAHAHAHAHA. Awesome. I think we can lay to rest any speculation that it might be something other than Twisted Metal.

I don't pop my head in this area much anymore. Holy shit did it at the right moment this time. I want Twisted Metal so fucking bad.
 
TM Black was the reason I purchased a PS2.

After seeing full auto and Roadkill try their hand at it I'm so hankering for a great couch co-op game

Can someone explain to me how all this works with Jaffe ?

- He formed Incognito with someone esle around the time TM Black was being dedveloped
- Incognito made Warhawk as well but we've nto heard anything from them but he had nothing to do with Warhawk ?
- Jaffe made wisted God of War I & II with Sony Santa Monica whiel he was still at Incognito but worked for Sony Santa Monnia Instead ?
- So he's had nothing to do with Incognito since TM Black in 2001 ?
- He left both Incognito and Sony Santa Monica a few years back and Now formed his own studio Eat SLeep Play ?
- So is he basically jusy a hired Gun who work for sony but then come to a studio to make a game he is designing ?
 
SolidSnakex said:
Isn't Full Auto a racing game with a car combat element?
That's typically how it goes now. I don't think there's been a pure car combat retail game this gen. There's some evidence that Jaffe's new game might be some car combat hybrid as well.
 
I know this is really off topic, but did anyone here play Rogue Trip? Now THAT game was awesome. I always felt like it was grossly overlooked by folks who enjoyed TM. It had a lot of great things that I wish I could have seen in TM.
 
Kittonwy said:
Do people want Twisted Metal THIS MUCH?
YES! Twisted Metal was always the best car combat game. It has a lot of fans and btw..... the car combat genre is dead at the moment. We NEED Twisted Metal! This genre is fucking awesome.

Kittonwy said:
I don't mind another Twisted Metal but I'm not sure whether I want to play a car combat game at this point, wouldn't it be better to see something fresh and new?
NO! Jaffe is one of the TM fathers. We need TM back and he is the only one who can do it right.
 
MrPliskin said:
I know this is really off topic, but did anyone here play Rogue Trip? Now THAT game was awesome. I always felt like it was grossly overlooked by folks who enjoyed TM. It had a lot of great things that I wish I could have seen in TM.

Yeah, I played it. Pretty sure (I'm sure someone will correct me) when Singletrac was bought by GT the Twisted name stayed with Sony and Rogue Trip was Single's "next" Twisted/car combat game. Dev duties for TM 3 and 4 were handed to 989...
 
TM2 and TM Black were fucking awesome. No other car combat game has come close. The lack of a current gen version has been disappointing
 
SolidSnakex said:
Isn't Full Auto a racing game with a car combat element?

Yeah, and, many people dont know this but the Arena mode is actually really fun! Just blasting EVERYTHING in sight with miniguns, rocketlaunchers and battering rams!

You can destroy not only your competition but the buildings and everything. I really recommend checking out Full Auto 2 for its Arena mode. The campaign isnt much to write home about.
 
Concept17 said:
That's really more just how he feels about its level design than the game itself.

He talked more in detail about how he feels about Black on 'The Dark Past' from Head On: Extra Twisted Edition. This is how he ranked the series

1.) TM2
2.) TM1
3.) TM: Black

He mentioned that looking back he feels that he was tired of the mechanics of Twisted Metal and was more in love with the world that they were creating with Black. If you watch 'The Dark Past' you really get the feeling that TM PS3 is going to be a very different game from what they've created in the past.
 
MrPliskin said:
I know this is really off topic, but did anyone here play Rogue Trip? Now THAT game was awesome. I always felt like it was grossly overlooked by folks who enjoyed TM. It had a lot of great things that I wish I could have seen in TM.

Yup, great game.
 
A small preview from Jaffe on 4 Guys 1 Up:

While presenting an award at the AIAS Interactive Achievement Awards ceremony last night, David Jaffe may have let it slip that a new Twisted Metal game will be either announced or released in "eight or nine months." It's unclear if the question involving Twisted Metal is actually what he was responding to, but Jaffe leant further credence to the rumors that his new studio is at work on a TM game during today's episode of 4 Guys 1UP. We've seen evidence that the new game will have vehicles in it, but Jaffe came right out and admitted as much on the show.

During the podcast, 1UP editorial director Sam Kennedy asked, "With your new game, are you thinking about accessibility...?", to which Jaffe responded, "Here's the weekly struggle on my current game. I don't think I'm giving anything away, but our new game does have vehicles in it. We would love to have those vehicles control using modern control configurations. Everybody picks up a controller these days and [they] say, 'Oh, gas and brake are on the shoulder buttons.' They're no longer on the face buttons. But if suddenly we were to say those vehicles have other functionalities besides driving. Well, suddenly the game don't play very well when you put the gas [on the shoulder buttons]. But I know if we were to put this hypothetical game with vehicles that did other things besides drive in a new players hands, they're going to want to control it like they're controlling Burnout."

Traditionally in Twisted Metal games, gas/accelerate is assigned to the Square button, with weapon selection and firing assigned to the four shoulder buttons on a PlayStation controller. With that in mind, it's hard not to think that Jaffe is talking about developing the control scheme for a new Twisted Metal game.

Later on in the podcast, Jaffe asked Insomniac's James Stevenson about where Insomniac was going thematically with their new game. "I don't mean specifically," he clarified. "In the same way I ain't telling what I'm doing with cars... or vehicles, sorry." Presumably the slipup with 'cars' instead of 'vehicles' suggests that there are ground-based vehicles in the game that don't fall under the umbrella of 'cars,' but who knows -- perhaps his next game will have flying cars. It wouldn't be the first time a vehicular combat game featured a flying vehicle.

Make sure to check back later for the full interview with David Jaffe on today's episode of 4 Guys 1UP.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3178034
 
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