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[inky]

I think I agree with most of what he says.
I definitely agree that a lot of developers out there think in terms of movies when they are making their own games. They get caught up in the idea that they should be similar, function the same way, then forget about the game part being the basis of the experience and instead put it underneath the "I'm telling you a story" bits (I'm looking at you Naughty Dog).

Good talk.

 

[Orayn]

wtf is jaffe talking about?

Confusion is the first symptom of getting caught in the blast radius of a truth bomb.

THIS!
No story / story mode = no buy!

Where does Dark Souls fit into this? It has almost no story. Maybe a dozen cutscenes no longer than 30 seconds each, a pitiful amount of dialogue, and no real sweeping or epic plot that connects everything.

 

[Atolm]

Being an arcade gamer at heart, I agree with him. Gameplay über alles.

 

[Xplatformer]

As I others have mentioned he is right. He's not saying you can't have a story. He's saying that it should compliment your gameplay because you're making a game first and foremost. Instead some developers will focus on telling the story instead of making a game that is fun to play. If they want to tell the story at the expensive of gameplay then why not make a fucking movie? It's a point I've asked many times with some of these games.

Do you consider Monkey Island a good game?

 

[HK-47]

I don't really agree with you analysis.

Board games, sporting games, video games. All of these are, by explicit definition, different types of games.

Films and books are not games. They are much less similar to video games than are other types of games, such as sports or board games or role playing games.

Sry but video games can clearly transcend the narrow potential you give them. I know you are a big fan of mechanics and games with no narrative and that may have been where the first games came from but they have moved beyond it. The medium allows more. Never mind that TTRPGs have the most extreme focus on story out of any game, and tend to have as much focus on story as a film or comic. You also think story is the most important component of a film, but as people pointed out in the last of these threads, many critics and theorists might disagree.

 

[kitzkozan]

Ignoring the obvious contradictions with Jaffe's portfolio and prior statements related to Heartland, I agree with the overall argument. As I've grown older with my time diminishing for things like gaming, I find myself gravitating towards games that allow me to play and jump out on time. If I have an hour to spare, I'm going to be more likely to fire up FIFA or MW3 rather than Catherine or Uncharted.

With the exception of a handful of games I enjoyed for the story, I am not really affected or impressed by most stories and their story telling. Metal Gear Solid 4 in particular was a royal pain in the ass for that reason. I liked the action, but there wasn't enough of it, and I had to sit through hours of philosophic drivel and cooking eggs that took me out of the immersion. Funny thing is that I absolutely adored MGS1 as I talked to Meryl all the time to catch all the conversations. Just me.

Story just needs to set the scene for me, give context for why I'm chopping heads or killing terrorists. If a game is all about the story, make sure the marketing and publicity is focused on communicating what it is rather than being dishonest to get something sold (Hi Gears!).

Games like Metal Gear solid actually remind me of some movies in the 60's and 70's which tried to combine political and social engaged drama with the action movie genre. I saw one of those where 2 men are fighting inside a moving truck while you can hear someone speaking over loudspeakers at the same time. It's a long and intellectual monologue over political and social matters, but it can easily get lost since you are watching a fist fight. Interesting experiment, but ultimately I though it didn't work at all.

 

[triplestation]

Uncharted 1/2 were incredible.

Jaffe, what are you doing? No.

 

[rdrr gnr]

Ergh. I got 50th posted! Into oblivion you go, thoughts!

 

[HK-47]

Confusion is the first symptom of getting caught in the blast radius of a truth bomb.



Where does Dark Souls fit into this? It has almost no story. Maybe a dozen cutscenes no longer than 30 seconds each, a pitiful amount of dialogue, and no real sweeping or epic plot that connects everything.

This is supposing the only story that is meaningful is either player driven or explicit author driven storytelling. Dark Souls has the player driven story of nearly any video game but it has a backstory and mystery surrounding it that dont fit into that. A very ambient, visual based story.

 

[Orayn]

Do you consider Monkey Island a good game?

Adventure games and visual novels are more closely related to interactive fiction than most other genres of video games, in a sense. For them, gameplay mechanics have become a relatively slim, lightweight means of conveying the story, and I think it can work rather well. It's when games fall in the awkward middle ground that I get annoyed.

This is supposing the only story that is meaningful is either player driven or explicit author driven storytelling. Dark Souls has the player driven story of nearly any video game but it has a backstory and mystery surrounding it that dont fit into that. A very ambient, visual based story.

Exactly. People are too hung up on action/drama in TV and film when they think of "story," when there are other types of storytelling that are a much better fit for video games.

 

[RedSwirl]

What I'm getting here is that Jaffe is against non-interactive narrative in games, or games being taken over by non-interactive narrative. If you notice, at the end of his talk he mentions Deus Ex as the perfect example of the kind of story telling that does work in video games. Not just the action gameplay, but how the player character interacts with NPCs and the world in general, deciding what happens. Yes it is still an authored experience, but it's not trying to be a movie. Skyrim is the other example he gave.

That's why I honestly believe that adventure games and those kinds of RPGs represent possibly the best current mechanics for how to tell stories in games.

 

[Cartman86]

This is supposing the only story that is meaningful is either player driven or explicit author driven storytelling. Dark Souls has the player driven story of nearly any video game but it has a backstory and mystery surrounding it that dont fit into that. A very ambient, visual based story.

I wish it had less "story".

 

[triplestation]

Jaffe you are not the king of video games and your opinion is nuts. Make your games and leave other developers be.

 

[HK-47]

But playing as Batman (being Batman?) isn't the same as reading Batman or watching Batman. And just as you change things adapting from a book to a movie (look how long it took filmmakers to realize that the camp that played well in the Batman TV show wasn't suitable for the big screen), some elements play better or worse in a video game.

I can't speak to Arkham City, but I certainly enjoyed the time I spent playing Arkham Asylum more than the time I spent walking alongside the Joker looking around. Exposition is nice, but it's pretty restricting as a player.

Without the exposition and character dialogue setting the action up, it would be a far less interesting experience of being Batman, cause you'd be missing important parts of what make the Batman universe interesting.

 

[Perfect Cha0s]

Likewise, you can communicate a tremendous amount about the universe in which your game takes place with hardly any dialogue, as we see in Demon's Souls and Dark Souls. The levels, from their visual motifs to the way they're navigated, say a tremendous amount without slowing the player down to let them know that "story is happening."

Absolutely. Creating an environment that effectively tells a story (or lets us tell our own story) is usually much more powerful than a narrative.

Some stories need dialogue and narrative to be cohesive and to be effectively told, but IMO, the video game medium is much more suited to the passive stories of discovery. While a movie or book will always move at a determined pace, a player can essentially jump off the narrative rails and do their own thing.

Even in a story-based game, simple things like player death and having to start over from a previous point can hamper the intended story conveyance.

That's not to say narrative driven games are inferior, but I feel there's a difference in what players remember most fondly lore/story-wise in a Dark Souls/Elder Scrolls game versus a Final Fantasy game.

 

[HK-47]

Adventure games and visual novels are more closely related to interactive fiction than most other genres of video games, in a sense. For them, gameplay mechanics have become a relatively slim, lightweight means of conveying the story, and I think it can work rather well. It's when games fall in the awkward middle ground that I get annoyed.



Exactly. People are too hung up on action/drama in TV and film when they think of "story," when there are other types of storytelling that are a much better fit for video games.

But what about Bloodlines, which combines all three? Especially mixing explicit author based storytelling and very customizable player based story.

I feel people only base author told stories on either very restrictive things like most JRPGs, MGS or Uncharted and tbh if thats your view than I can see why only player based or even no story might be preferable.

 

[Cartman86]

What I'm getting here is that Jaffe is against non-interactive narrative in games, or games being taken over by non-interactive narrative. If you notice, at the end of his talk he mentions Deus Ex as the perfect example of the kind of story telling that does work in video games. Not just the action gameplay, but how the player character interacts with NPCs and the world in general, deciding what happens. Yes it is still an authored experience, but it's not trying to be a movie. Skyrim is the other example he gave.

That's why I honestly believe that adventure games and those kinds of RPGs represent possibly the best current mechanics for how to tell stories in games.

I think there is something special about games like Deus Ex and Skyrim and how they try to tell stories, but the problem with those examples is that the stories themselves are pretty terrible which is a problem that video games have as a whole. The good in those games is the overall universe not the actual plot or characters. The conspiracy shit in Deus Ex for example is tired old garbage. That's not why Jaffe brought these up as examples, but I think it's important to point out how poor stories are in the first place. Doesn't really give story based games a good chance if the writing is shit in the first place.

 

[Purexed]

Games like Metal Gear solid actually remind me of some movies in the 60's and 70's which tried to combine political and social engaged drama with the action movie genre. I saw one of those where 2 men are fighting inside a moving truck while you can hear someone speaking over loudspeakers at the same time. It's a long and intellectual monologue over political and social matters, but it can easily get lost since you are watching a fist fight. Interesting experiment, but ultimately I though it didn't work at all.

Yeah, I applaud the effort, but it falls flat for me as well. Modern Metal Gear games are more like interactive novels than anything. Wish they were 95% interactive and 5% novel.

 

[Eliciel]

yeah you know the problem is this is yesterdays' news. I don't think that this "idea" is anything new. We know that already...problem is there is no single truth. Find your way either way if the game is well made I don't really care. Jaffe has some good points but it is just one side of the medal. There are also games that are outstanding because of their story (mass effect ..and so on).

Nevertheless thanks for the video


edit: I just saw that the first comment on the video says " One game trumps Jaffe's argument, that game is Mass Effect.... " interesting didn't read that before actually posting here, but I think it kind of shows what I'm talking about and what we already know...you get the idea.

 

[RedSwirl]

I think there is something special about games like Deus Ex and Skyrim and how they try to tell stories, but the problem with those examples is that the stories themselves are pretty terrible which is a problem that video games have as a whole. The good in those games is the overall universe. The conspiracy shit in Deus Ex is tired old garbage. That's probably not the point though.

Probably. Actually, in the cases of both the original Deux Ex and Human Revolution I enjoyed the first half of their storylines and then got disappointed when they introduced the Illuminati and all that crap. A better example of what I'm talking about might be The Witcher 2.

 

[Orayn]

But what about Bloodlines, which combines all three? Especially mixing explicit author based storytelling and very customizable player based story.

I fel people only base author told stories on either very restrictive things like most JRPGs, MGS or Uncharted and tbh if thats your views than I can see why only player based or even no story might be preferable.

It can work. It just makes me nervous when I hear devs take that approach, because there are about a million ways to screw up the entire game, but precious few ways of getting everything to click.

 

[Cartman86]

Probably. Actually, in the cases of both the original Deux Ex and Human Revolution I enjoyed the first half of their storylines and then got disappointed when they introduced the Illuminati and all that crap. A better example of what I'm talking about might be The Witcher 2.

Yeah

 

[HK-47]

It can work. It just makes me nervous when I hear devs take that approach, because there are about a million ways to screw up the entire game, but precious few ways of getting everything to click.

Well everything doesnt click in Bloodlines, but that didnt keep me from loving it. Cause almost no one does it that well int he first place. Dont even talk about perfect. Dark/Demons Souls aint perfect either.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Asura's Wrath is a prime example of what happens when people cant achieve a good balance.

funny, because that "game" is exactly what i think we need to move the fuck away from. The only balance in asura's wrath is between cut-scenes and quick time events. The actual videogame is just window dressing for the interactive anime.

 

[HK-47]

Probably. Actually, in the cases of both the original Deux Ex and Human Revolution I enjoyed the first half of their storylines and then got disappointed when they introduced the Illuminati and all that crap. A better example of what I'm talking about might be The Witcher 2.

And that isnt a failure of the idea of a story in DX but of the story that was told going to a bad place. Just like any other storytelling medium.

 

[HK-47]

funny, because that "game" is exactly what i think we need to move the fuck away from. The only balance in asura's wrath is between cut-scenes and quick time events. The actual videogame is just window dressing for the interactive anime.

But see AW actually seems like something that would actually be able to balance the two, since much of shounen anime is exposition and character interaction broke up by fighting and battles and whatever. Its a complete failure of design. It could have had the same pacing and story with an actual combat system. But it didnt, even though the game so obvious should have one.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

The story should be told via the space and not explicitly. Good examples are The Legend of Zelda and Metroid. All engrossing games because the story of the game is actually its spacial architecture. That is the advantage games have. The other part of the story is simulation, something that definitely has more in common with boards games like chess. So between spacial storytelling and simulation that is all that a game needs.

of all the games ive played in recent years the one that managed to tell a good story through both enviorment, cutscenes, but still left plenty room for player agency was Doom 3. people call me crazy because it was a corridor shooter, but the way the story was developed through audio and video that you found and for the most part viewed when YOU were ready to progress the story for me is the closest to the best of both worlds. The cutscenes where minimal, you could learn as little or as much about the game world as you liked and most importantly searching for clues on where to find codes for door etc, became a metagame within itself, not just something you sat back and had dictated to you. Not to mention the way the environmental changes progressed the story. extremely well done, and i hope its a model ID doesn't abandon.

But see AW actually seems like something that would actually be able to balance the two, since much of shounen anime is exposition and character interaction broke up by fighting and battles and whatever. Its a complete failure of design. It could have had the same pacing and story with an actual combat system. But it didnt, even though the game so obvious should have one.

which is really a roundabout way of saying the designers put making an interactive story before making a solid game.............................................................................which is exactly what Jaffe is speaking out against, nothing more or less. I never said the concept didn't have potential, but the finished product is a poster child of the topic being discussed here.

 

[SentientStone]

http://www.gamespot.com/shows/gamespot-live/?event=twisted_metal_david_jaffe_dice_session20120209

Still trying to figure out what I think of it all. On a gut level I don't agree with most of what he said, but it's a good watch.

I don't buy that video games are like sports or board games. To me that's like comparing them to films or books. They aren't any of these things. I do think he's spot on with his pointing out of the lip service devs give about what their game is "about". Comparing it to Breaking Bad and other shit when in reality they haven't thought for a second about the gameplay.

EDIT: As always watch it all to get his entire point.

I haven't watched it but I am pretty sure that I disagree with what he says. He seems to be stuck in the idea that games must be what they are called 'games'. I see there being game games with gameplay as the primary experience it wants to delivery, and then there are the more narrative-based or emotions-based games that does involve gameplay but that is not the primary experience those games are trying to deliver to the user.

 

[we.are.the.armada]

But I think part of what makes Persona 4 so cool is that a lot of the story in that game is really player-driven through the Social Link system. Getting to know people better and helping them out gives you narrative and makes you more powerful, so there's plenty of reason to care. Managing those social links is something you do yourself, and it provides another layer of meaningful context for the rest of the game. It brings you closer to each of your party members and to the town of Inaba.

My point exactly and you understand Persona 4

The only thing that I wish was more dynamic due to your decision making would be how the characters react to you (outside of combat mechanics) upon your relationship strengthening.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I wonder if the people who agree with Jaffe are pre ps1 gamers? I can see how guys who grew up with FF7 and MGS1 would want to punch jaffe in the mouth lol.

 

[Fjordson]

The story should be told via the space and not explicitly. Good examples are The Legend of Zelda and Metroid. All engrossing games because the story of the game is actually its spacial architecture.

Personally, both of those series bore me to tears.

On the flip side, there are plenty of games that explicitly tell their story directly to me that I absolutely adore. Cutscene driven games and whatnot.

I think this sort of discussion will always just show that there isn't any singular audience. Different people enjoy different styles of games.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Pretty much completely agree with him, except for that made-up player created story BS. People don't form narratives while they play Angry Birds, its just really fun.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

I wonder if the people who agree with Jaffe are pre ps1 gamers? I can see how guys who grew up with FF7 and MGS1 would want to punch jaffe in the mouth lol.

The resistance isn't dead yet.

 

[Kintaro]

Kind of funny to hear all of this out of Jaffe who is best known for a story based game (God of War) and not much else.

 

[SentientStone]

I wonder if the people who agree with Jaffe are pre ps1 gamers? I can see how guys who grew up with FF7 and MGS1 would want to punch jaffe in the mouth lol.

I started gaming with the NES, but I have grown to appreciate the medium more with the PS1 with games like MGS1. I myself prefer narrative / emotion-driven (not just 'fun' or the 'thrill' of gameplay) games over game games usually; this is one of the main reasons I do not enjoy iPhone games that much usually. Sometimes I do still get engrossed in a game game, but 8 times out of 10 I see myself preferring an experience that is not primarily focused on gameplay as its primary experience.

The only exception to the rule is with fighting games where I still adore because I grew up playing SF2:Turbo on the SNES and Killer Instinct (Tekken 3 also made me purchase a PS1) among others.

 

[soultron]

Pretty much completely agree with him, except for that made-up player created story BS. People don't form narratives while they play Angry Birds, its just really fun.

I think you can reduce the act of playing and then later re-telling that act as a player narrative, if you want to be very literal about it; "Then I laid siege to the castle where those blasted pigs were holed up in until it crashed to the ground, crushing every last filthy swine who chose to take shelter within its walls." That's an overly-flowery way of putting it, but you can create a story for every time you play, as a player.

Kind of funny to hear all of this out of Jaffe who is best known for a story based game (God of War) and not much else.

I'd argue he's was known, initially, for Twisted Metal, but God of War certainly bolstered his rep.

 

[NervousXtian]

The problem is that "great story" and "great game" are very hard to mix. Think of all your favorite books, now imagine them as games. I don't even know what your favorite books are and I know you probably think that's a bad idea.

 

[The Xtortionist]

Pretty much completely agree with him, except for that made-up player created story BS. People don't form narratives while they play Angry Birds, its just really fun.

I think he's talking more about the emotional ups and downs of the experience that are entirely player-driven.

Let's say I have an epic match of Call of Duty TDM. I start off the round with a one-in-a-million throwing knife across the map. Later in the game, we're losing but I somehow manage to hijack an enemy care package that contains an Osprey Gunner. The Osprey Gunner puts us within a few kills of winning but an enemy tries to shoot it down. Bam, two of my flares are gone and the next missile will destroy my Osprey and our hopes of winning. Luckily, a teammate kills the guy with the missile launcher as he's locked on and ready to fire and my Osprey goes on to win us the game.

That's a narrative, at least to me. I'm sure something similar could be done in Angry Birds.

 

[NervousXtian]

Pretty much completely agree with him, except for that made-up player created story BS. People don't form narratives while they play Angry Birds, its just really fun.

Speak for yourself!!

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

I wonder if the people who agree with Jaffe are pre ps1 gamers? I can see how guys who grew up with FF7 and MGS1 would want to punch jaffe in the mouth lol.

commodore 64 and atari st here. you may have a point as im really becoming tired at what gaming is becoming and what is classed as a " triple a" title. I've found gameplay is really starting to take a back seat towards the end of this generation, although there are many many notable exceptions.

Pretty much completely agree with him, except for that made-up player created story BS. People don't form narratives while they play Angry Birds, its just really fun.

the trail and error that you go through to learn how to complete a level in angry birds is a narrative in itself, with a beginning, middle and end when you you adhere to the classic defintion of the word. Just because you don't vocalise it, doesn't make it any less of a narrative.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Kind of funny to hear all of this out of Jaffe who is best known for a story based game (God of War) and not much else.

So are people purposely ignoring how much of an influence God of War was on console games to start using QTE's and scale to do things never done before in-game? Sure there were traditional cutscenes in God of War, Jaffe never said he was perfect or that he found the "secret code," but God Of War wasn't a gameplay slouch.

 

[G-Fex]

http://www.gamespot.com/shows/gamespot-live/?event=twisted_metal_david_jaffe_dice_session20120209

Still trying to figure out what I think of it all. On a gut level I don't agree with most of what he said, but it's a good watch.

I don't buy that video games are like sports or board games. To me that's like comparing them to films or books. They aren't any of these things. I do think he's spot on with his pointing out of the lip service devs give about what their game is "about". Comparing it to Breaking Bad and other shit when in reality they haven't thought for a second about the gameplay.

EDIT: As always watch it all to get his entire point.

I agree with him, I care about gameplay more than story, I skip whatever cutscenes I can.

 

[soultron]

The problem is that "great story" and "great game" are very hard to mix. Think of all your favorite books, now imagine them as games. I don't even know what your favorite books are and I know you probably think that's a bad idea.

And that's what I think he was talking about when he said, as an executive, one needs to know how to suss out a game from a pitch using gameplay language. You need to have a sense of how this amazing story or setting is going to actually play out in a gameplay context. For instance, how would you make a Breaking Bad game? Would you mix gameplay from SpaceChem and GTA? It'd be a hot mess, I'm sure. "We want to make a game with the feel of The Ides of March." How the fuck are you going to do that? Are you going to emulate the cinematic style of the movie or do you literally want to make a game that tells that kind of weighty story? How is that going to be fun?

This is going to cause me to catch heat, but I don't give a fuck: I watched my roommate play Uncharted 3, which he was highly anticipating. After a scene in which a chalet was on fire, he threw down the controller and said something to the effect of "Fuck this, I don't want to play this anymore." I said, "Dude, you're not even at the good parts yet! I heard it gets crazy!" (Because I'd been reading GAF's glowing impressions about the game.) And he told me, "I'd rather watch the Uncharted movie. That's all it is now. This was more fun in Uncharted 2 when I felt like my actions mattered." And that was the moment I realized I was watching a movie, and that was why I wanted him to play on. Not because I necessarily wanted him to have fun or watch his pre-release excitement for the game be justified. I think this speaks to a problem some of the industry is having with regards to telling stories, scripting events to the point that the player has no impact so that these stories can be told. They're fun as hell to watch (and I still want to see the end of U3), but what does that say about them as games?

 

[Kintaro]

So are people purposely ignoring how much of an influence God of War was on console games to start using QTE's and scale to do things never done before in-game? Sure there were traditional cutscenes in God of War, Jaffe never said he was perfect or that he found the "secret code," but God Of War wasn't a gameplay slouch.

God of War was driven by its story, not its gameplay. I love the game, don't get me wrong, but being the game that "made QTEs popular" (which is purely a story/scale mechanic) with okish combat (but nothing compared to DMC) is...not very flattering.

God of War's legacy is its scale, characters and story. Everything else comes second.

I'd argue he's was known, initially, for Twisted Metal, but God of War certainly bolstered his rep.

I'd argue no one playing games at the time gave a fuck who made Twisted Metal and the only developer they were familiar with was Miyamoto. lol

 

[erpg]

I think it's strange that someone seemingly so self-aware doesn't see the folly in trying to guide other people's 'voices' and visions in a negative way (as in detracting instead of adding). Especially from something as individual and creative as story telling.

Would be better to tackle the problem of properly mixing gameplay, camera (when possible), and NPC acting. Player-driven anecdotes are fun, but some times, structured story is what drives players to continue with single-player games. Catherine was used earlier, and I hate playing it. But I need to see it through because I feel like I've had some connection with the story. It isn't always enough (I quit Uncharted 3 near the end because I didn't want to experience another horrible UC boss fight), but fix it, instead of walking away from the challenge.

 

[RadiantRule]

I play video games for the experience. Whether that's driven more by gameplay or story, I don't care.

 

[Bollocks]

Confusion is the first symptom of getting caught in the blast radius of a truth bomb.

What truth bomb? That talk was garbage, simple as that. Maybe if he had actually prepared his talk it would have been better
It speaks for itself that he feels the need to slam Arkham City whereas LA Noir would be the right candidate, but then again what's his point? Don't forget about the gameplay? News at 11

 

[RevolverFox44]

Eww, not even 3 minutes in and I hate everything he's saying. This 'player authored stories' concept are the kind of games that bore me to death. Games that are made with the express intent of telling a story or with providing the player with a specific experience are the best kind IMO, the kind I love the most. I don't want to make up a story as I play, I want to have a specific experience that the designer wanted me to have. I want to be immersed in someone Else's creation. I want clearly defined rules for me to learn and ideally manipulate to my advantage.

I don't mean games need to be loaded with cutscenes, Demon's/Dark Souls and Shadow of the Colossus had very little but they were still tightly focused and provided a tightly controlled experience. Games like Skyrim are a big blurry unfocused mess to me, and while there is some fun to be had there most of it is very dull. In Skyrim's case this was made even worse by its terrible combat. I am more interested in Kingdoms of Amalur because it actually has good combat and is pleasing to look at, even though its a similar formula.

I'd rather play a game than watch a movie if they can provide a similar experience in terms of story, characters and emotions. Games are way longer than movies and I get to take over during the action scenes.

Nearly all my favorite games are heavily story driven while also providing a quality gameplay experience, like the Yakuza series for example. God of War is another, I rented it and loved it, but the reason I went out and bought it and replayed it numerous times is because of the story. Without that I never would have touched it again. Same for Uncharted 1. I rented it, beat it, and bought it all in the same day and have replayed it over 20 times. Strip out the story and characters and I'd have never touched it more than once.

I love Deus Ex but not for the reasons he's talking about. I love it for the same reason I love the games I mention above, and frankly I'd rather dispense with the dialogue menus and such, I want choice when it pertains to gameplay, like combat tactics, equipment and exploration, but not when it comes to story.

There are games I love purely for their gameplay and not story or experience, but those are very rare. DMC, God Hand, Bayonetta and Vanquish are all good examples, but even those are improved by their stories, as batshit as they may be, because they provide context for the action which is still very important. The only games I can let slide with little to no context are 2-D platformers and scrolling schmups.

I respect Jaffe but I disagree vehemently with everything he's saying. I think he' selling this medium short. Video games have unlimited potential as an artistic medium where everything is possible. There's no one right or wrong way to utilize it and every designer should make the game they want to make.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

God of War was driven by its story, not its gameplay. I love the game, don't get me wrong, but being the game that "made QTEs popular" (which is purely a story/scale mechanic) with okish combat (but nothing compared to DMC) is...not very flattering.

God of War's legacy is its scale, characters and story. Everything else comes second.



I'd argue no one playing games at the time gave a fuck who made Twisted Metal and the only developer they were familiar with was Miyamoto. lol

rubbish. God of wars greatest strength was that it made DMC-esque combat accessable, something its billion of clones have yet to master. Its sense of of scale and story was what drew people in, but its gameplay mecanics, for better or worse is what kept them there. If it was simply story and scale that people loved, then heavenly sword would of been a multimillon seller as well.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

God of War was driven by its story, not its gameplay. I love the game, don't get me wrong, but being the game that "made QTEs popular" (which is purely a story/scale mechanic) with okish combat (but nothing compared to DMC) is...not very flattering.

God of War's legacy is its scale, characters and story. Everything else comes second

It's not God Of War's fault that other devs took the QTE and made it into Battlefield 3, or Asura's Wrath. The fact remains that it, along with RE4, were very big on attempting to do spectacular things IN GAMEPLAY.

And "scale" as a storytelling device as used in God of War is exactly the type of thing Jaffe is arguing IN FAVOR of.