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[number386]

I'll post my test results, I use a sharp Aquos LCD HDTV:

For PS1 I tried FFIX, and RE2. They both looked good better than I remembered them especially both FMV's.

For PS2 DMC 3 special edition looks really really good in game + cut scene for me because of the output ted 480p. FFXII was sort of a mixed bag the FMV was wierd with minor glictching but the regular in game looked slightly better than on ps2, but on my TV non progessive scan games like FFXII usually look bad.

 

[antiloop]

I wonder when they are planning to be done with the software emulation, is it going to come out before the Europe launch or in a year or two?

 

[Dot50Cal]

Adding to this thread, I recently found this was a serious issue for me. This really bites. Heres some shots I took of RE4:

You can see if the game supports progressive scan and you enable it, the image looks nearly identical to a ps2 game running in 480i default mode. The PS3 running PS2 games that do no t support 480p look horrible. I cannot express how badly this looks in motion but trust me, its so distracting. Its like razor blades on your eyes. I couldnt get a shot of the ps2 running in 480p as my tv took a heart attack when I attempted this.

This looks to me like its an issue with de-interlacing, as I was able to produce some similar artifacts during my encoding days.

Im using a Bravia XBR3 46" 1080p set.

Im using an HDMI cable for the PS3 and a component for the PS2. Ill test this more extensively when I dont have work so soon.

 

[Mojovonio]

So there is a chance this can all be fixed with a firmware update?

 

[Dot50Cal]

If anyone else is sick of the lack of response here I urge you to go to the sony site and send them an email.

http://www.us.playstation.com/Corporate/ContactUs/ConsumerServices

The only way we are going to be heard on this is if we complain to no end.

 

[fubarduck]

For the record, the PS3 also creates input lag via the HDMI output on PS1/PS2 games since it forces 480p even if the game doesn't natively support it. Native-480p games are fine (if you enable 480p within the game).

The lag is about 60ms. You can use the Guitar Hero II calibration test to see the lag in action.

Hooray for bad deinterlacing and rushed products!

 

[Fatghost]

I'd be all over complaining but I'm not sure a firmware update can fix this. It might need a whole hardware revision.

Does the PS3, when playing PS1/2 games, have the ability to use CELL or RSX to add post processing effects?

 

[Dot50Cal]

Oh my DEAR GOD. This happens at SD resolution too! Jesus H Christ Ill have pics / vids soon DIRECT FEED. My god....

Edit:
Both using Component in on my capture card..WOW WTF! 480i mode is being used

PS3:

PS2:

PS3:

PS2:

 

[Fafalada]

The PS3 running PS2 games that do no t support 480p look horrible.

As noted earlier in the thread - the issue has nothing to do with progressive/interlaced directly, it affects games that render horizontal resolutions different then 640. Switching to progressive makes it go away because the mode required output buffer 640 pixels wide to work.

So what's borked is horizontal scaling, not deinterlacing.

 

[Gowans]

guys Slurry did a great video side by side comparison here:

http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/7990

 

[Dot50Cal]

Some more:

PS3

PS2

 

[cvxfreak]

Dot50Cal, I get many of the same issues. :| I use HDMI, so it's not nearly as drastic once I trigger prog scan. I can put up with it due to the smoother controls, though.

 

[Y2Kev]

Prog scan games look great to me. :\

Regular games need major work. That video is a good comparison...the FFX clip is kind of jarring.

 

[Dot50Cal]

I use HDMI as well, and progressive does clear it up but that just leaves a whole host of other problems for non progressive compatible games :\ Outbreak, Outbreak 2..even though I loathe them Ill eventually have capture them.

I guess the only thing I can do is capture a video direct feed showcasing the problems. AFAIK only an off tv one has been done in youtubeish quality.

 

[lynux3]

When is software emulation suppose to come out? Are these issues likely to be resolved?

 

[JB1981]

guys Slurry did a great video side by side comparison here:

http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/7990

Good video except it's slightly misleading. PS2 games look fine - great, even - in 480p when played on the PS3. It sucks that 480i games don't fair as well, though. Here's hoping Sony addresses this issue. Somebody from 1up (like Luke) should get on their ass about this.

 

[ourumov]

I am actually quite shocked at Ridge... because in theory is one of those games running at weird resolutions... I think it was Fafalada the one that hinted that the game might be running at a 512x512 framebuffer long time ago...
Anyways it's one of my favourite games, which reminds me I should get the JP version now that I am here.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Oh my DEAR GOD. This happens at SD resolution too! Jesus H Christ Ill have pics / vids soon DIRECT FEED. My god....

Edit:
Both using Component in on my capture card..WOW WTF! 480i mode is being used

PS3:

PS2:

PS3:

PS2:

Huh. That's enlightening. Thanks a ton for your work in posting these pics. I had never seen a good set of pictures illustrating the problem.

It actually looks like the PS3 is applying some unwanted pixel sharpening for some reason. That's what it looks like to me, as a professional photographer who deals with Photoshop every day for a living and sees some filters we use add this oversharpening to images that look smooth until we apply them.

It looks exactly like that. Especially in the gradations, edges and text. They go blocky and lose their smoothness when there is too much sharpness.

----

I wonder, just as an experiment, if you could try turning the Sharpness setting on your display progressively down and see if that helps smooth things out again?

It's worth a shot, anyway.

Try it, and see if that fixes it.

I know it sounds weird, but there is such a thing as too much sharpness, especially when dealing with low resolution images.

 

[ourumov]

It actually looks like the PS3 is applying some unwanted pixel sharpening for some reason. That's what it looks like to me, as a professional photographer who deals with Photoshop every day for a living and sees some filters we use add this oversharpening to images that look smooth until we apply them.

Is just earn my living painting walls but... if you went a few pages before in the thread you would see what is causing the issue...

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Is just earn my living painting walls but... if you went a few pages before in the thread you would see what is causing the issue...

Hey, thanks for crapping all over me for trying to help.

 

[Fafalada]

I am actually quite shocked at Ridge...

Ridge IIRC runs at 640x224, it just sucked at keeping 60hz sync, so interlacing was all over the place.

Good video except it's slightly misleading.

It's completely misleading, as there's tons of 480i titles that aren't affected either. Though I guess whatever gets Sony to fix it.

 

[ourumov]

Hey, thanks for crapping all over me for trying to help.

Just kidding Pristine It was funny how you sounded

Just a joke, no offense intended.

Ridge IIRC runs at 640x224, it just sucked at keeping 60hz sync, so interlacing was all over the place.

Then it was my memory the one being ****ed up... I always thought that it was a weird resolution.

Glad to know it then...

 

[Dot50Cal]

I wonder, just as an experiment, if you could try turning the Sharpness setting on your display progressively down and see if that helps smooth things out again?

Will try that with my capture card when I get off work. While what Fafalada posed sounds great, I'll cover this if just to squash it out as a reason.

 

[jarosh]

turning down the sharpness will most certainly NOT help. this is not a sharpness issue at all.

 

[Brobzoid]

so...? games that don't have progressive modes are shit? Because I don't think many PAL games have progressive, do they? I can think of Shadow of the Colossus... and no more... Anyone?

 

[ourumov]

SOW
Tekken 4
Tekken 5
SC 2
The Getaway
Primal
GhostHunter
Tourist Trophy


I don't remember more...

 

[Dot50Cal]

Guys, A ZDNET editor is getting on the case

http://boardsus.playstation.com/pla...read.id=808212&view=by_date_ascending&page=52

Hi there all!

This is my first post here - I signed up especially to post this.

My name is Adrian W Kingsley-Hughes and I'm a tech blogger over on ZDNet and I'd just like to say that I've just finished reading through the 50+ pages of this thread and and you folks have done a marvelous job of documenting and detailing this complex issue. I've already given your plight with the PS3 and Sony tech support some coverage but I plan of a fuller, more detailed article later today.

The way I see it, the problems that you face are one of getting people (at Sony and other PS3 owners) to acknowledge that a problem exists. My initial investigations seem to suggest that while Sony does, in part at least, acknowledge that there's a problem here, the belief is that it's very limited, small scale and not that serious. Your evidence seems to show otherwise. I'd like to touch base with a few of you who have had issues with your PS3s to discuss the issue further and get some of your thoughts and feelings about it. Please feel free to contact me via this forum or through the contact pages here or here.

Here's hoping for a speedy resolution to this problem.

Ive already linked him to this topic, and more specifically to Fafalada's post. Heres hoping to a quick resolution of this, but I wont hold my breath.

Essentially in laymans terms (as I understand it) the PS3 is scaling the resolution of games which arent naitively 640x??? to 640x??? however its doing so using a nearest neighbor like resize, correct?

I can produce the same effect in my capture software by making it full screen.

 

[hamdammage]

so...? games that don't have progressive modes are shit? Because I don't think many PAL games have progressive, do they? I can think of Shadow of the Colossus... and no more... Anyone?

No, as pointed out, games that don't have progressive mode AND have horizontal frame buffer resolutions less than 640 will look like ass.

 

[hamdammage]

Can anyone describe how PS1 titles are rendered? Are they all upscaled to 480p? For most PS1 games, which use a 320x224 progressive resolution, I wouldn't think there would be a problem. I wonder what would be done for interlaced PS1 games though, like Tobal No. 1 and DOA.

 

[urk]

guys Slurry did a great video side by side comparison here:

http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/7990

Sponsored by Blu-ray. :lol

 

[dark10x]

Can anyone describe how PS1 titles are rendered? Are they all upscaled to 480p? For most PS1 games, which use a 320x224 progressive resolution, I wouldn't think there would be a problem. I wonder what would be done for interlaced PS1 games though, like Tobal No. 1 and DOA.

PSX games seem to look just fine (though high-resolution games do not work at this time, it seems).

 

[Leidenfrost]

PSX games seem to look just fine (though high-resolution games do not work at this time, it seems).

Aren't the menus for Chrono Cross in High Res?

 

[Menaged]

Is there a visual problem when you play PS2 games with the PS3 on SDTV's, or is it just a HDTV problem?

Thanks

 

[sprocket]

Its and easy fix . But will sony bother is the question?

 

[dark10x]

Aren't the menus for Chrono Cross in High Res?

Yes, and I haven't had issues with game using high-resolution elements. I've simply heard (not encountered first hand) that certain high-res PSX games were not working.

 

[Dot50Cal]

Is there a visual problem when you play PS2 games with the PS3 on SDTV's, or is it just a HDTV problem?

Thanks

Both, and it doesnt matter what cables you use either. Certain games are immune to this, however my guess is the vast majority have this problem.

 

[dark10x]

Both, and it doesnt matter what cables you use either. Certain games are immune to this, however my guess is the vast majority have this problem.

One thing I'm curious about...

Despite the image quality issues, I'm wondering if games will exhibit less flicker on an SDTV when running through the PS3? 640x*** games (mainly those using a half-height buffer) demonstrated heavy flickering on SDTVs. Some games used a flicker filter of sorts, but many did not. In those cases, I would think the image quality might actually improve when output to an SDTV.

 

[ManaByte]

I just tried viewing the thread on the official forums and got this:

The message you are trying to access has been deleted. Please update your bookmarks.

WTF?

 

[Mojovonio]

I just tried viewing the thread on the official forums and got this:


WTF?

Conspiracy!

 

[terrene]

Alright, that's it...

Do the PS3 > PS2 memory card adapters allow you to write your virtual memcards from the PS3 to a physical memcard for the PS2? Because if so, I'm transferring my FF12 save over and finishing the game on old faithful. I have S-Video damnit, I don't need this shit.

Edit: oh my fricken god, it doesn't.

 

[Argyle]

I just tried viewing the thread on the official forums and got this:

The message you are trying to access has been deleted. Please update your bookmarks.

WTF?

Yeah, don't panic yet, cause I seem to be able to read it at

http://boardsus.playstation.com/pla...hread.id=808212&view=by_date_ascending&page=1

 

[Dot50Cal]

Response from the ZDNet guy:

Hi there!

Just a quick note to let you all know what's happening.

I've posted another article on ZDNet covering the problem - http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=190 - Go Digg it, post comments and spread the word, the more noise that's made, the quicker Sony will respond!

I've also contacted a few people at Sony - as soon as I hear something, I'll let you know.

Adrian

Digg it!