SoRuffShoNuff
Member
Still think it's about messages huh? Democrats need someone charming and likable. Thats the only time Democrats can be bothered to get off their ass and vote, when someone extremely charismatic is on the ticket.
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Democrats Need A Message (Matt Taibbi)
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Eggplant Wizard
Member
The party can't wait for a bright young leader to save it. Buttigieg isn't JFK, and the presidency isn't a lifetime appointment.
I think a more inclusive version of Sanders' message would work. Class-focused economic issues in unison with progressive identity politics, rather than in contrast with them.
A big part of the national divide is people feeling left out of one narrative or the other, but they're not really incompatible.
Part of that might include getting away from big donors and corporate interests, though, and that's where the biggest challenge is. The message doesn't work if there's any chance of being seen as inconsistent or hypocritical.
I think a more inclusive version of Sanders' message would work. Class-focused economic issues in unison with progressive identity politics, rather than in contrast with them.
A big part of the national divide is people feeling left out of one narrative or the other, but they're not really incompatible.
Part of that might include getting away from big donors and corporate interests, though, and that's where the biggest challenge is. The message doesn't work if there's any chance of being seen as inconsistent or hypocritical.
She got more votes. It just didn't work all that well on low-education white people.
Cymbal Head
Banned
HammerOfThor
Member
They need a hero, they need to hold out for a hero 'til the end of the night. He's gotta be strong, and he's gotta be fast, and he's gotta be fresh from the fight.
They need a hero. He's gotta be sure and it's gotta be soon and he's gotta be larger than life.
Larger than life.
If only Jason Kanser won his race in Missouri.. he would have been perfect!
he's too young to run in 2020
running for president has an age requirement
Jason Kander is a perfect candidate for president: young, energetic, bright ideas, military background, progressive. He will be president someday, if he wants it.
I misread the title as Democrats Need a Massage. I was going to agree wholeheartedly and suggest free massages for all. Not just Americans, but massages for our friends all over the world enduring this clown show with us.
On topic, I think it's more about the candidate than crafting a perfect message. Hillary was strongly polarizing with a lot of political baggage. It didn't matter if her message was perfectly crafted and articulated. There were too many people that looked at her and made the decision to vote for an utter buffoon of a candidate rather than her.
On topic, I think it's more about the candidate than crafting a perfect message. Hillary was strongly polarizing with a lot of political baggage. It didn't matter if her message was perfectly crafted and articulated. There were too many people that looked at her and made the decision to vote for an utter buffoon of a candidate rather than her.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Having heard him speak...LOL
SaviourMK2
Member
Shouldn't the party be more focused on other issues at hand and worry about who is running later????
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Other way around, recruit good candidates for elections. The message will come naturally.
LegendofJoe
Member
The Democrats have a few more young, educated leaders with military backgrounds. Garcetti in Los Angeles and Jeff Jackson in North Carolina off the top of my head. I could see all 3 on a presidential ticket one day. I really hope both Garcetti and Jackson come to DC as Senators in 2018 and 2020 respectively. They both need to win at that level before they can run for president.
Yoshimitsu126
Member
GOP successfully made politcs sound like an evil thing to talk about in the US and they secure their R voters by keeping American values (White majority Christianity Patriarchy). But the non committed voters in America buy into this crap and think all politicians are corrupt and think Politics is a waste of time and only benefit the wealthy. That's why when Democrats offer social programs that may appeal to the non and uninformed voters, they distrust them just like the Republicans. But since most US citizens are white, look up to them, and patriarchical, they tend to follow the GOP.
If politics wasn't viewed so negatively, the temr Political Correct doesn't mean anything. That is it doesnt have a negative connotations because politics is part of everyone's life. But in the US, uninformed and apathetic voters are too afraid to talk about politics at the dinner table. They think discussing politics is debating when its a really a conversation about the country and how the citizens work together with it. This is why grade school teacher teach history but not how voting works. This is why children don't learn about their rights and constitution into the last year in highschool where not all chidren get that far into education and there's a label now of politics being related to history class and therefore a nerdy thing to do.
WTF US. No other western nation acts like this. But here we are.
Additional fact, no one in America is encouraged to learn how to contact their representatives or even understand they have someone that represents them. It's not taught at school and its not discussed at all by the disenfranchised Americans.
If politics wasn't viewed so negatively, the temr Political Correct doesn't mean anything. That is it doesnt have a negative connotations because politics is part of everyone's life. But in the US, uninformed and apathetic voters are too afraid to talk about politics at the dinner table. They think discussing politics is debating when its a really a conversation about the country and how the citizens work together with it. This is why grade school teacher teach history but not how voting works. This is why children don't learn about their rights and constitution into the last year in highschool where not all chidren get that far into education and there's a label now of politics being related to history class and therefore a nerdy thing to do.
WTF US. No other western nation acts like this. But here we are.
Additional fact, no one in America is encouraged to learn how to contact their representatives or even understand they have someone that represents them. It's not taught at school and its not discussed at all by the disenfranchised Americans.
Slackerish
Member
Mark just recently turned 33 and the requirement for president is 35.
"I'm not Donald Trump" isn't a particularly good message tbh, despite what a fucking massive improvement that would be
.LumpOfCole
Member
One Nation.
To win some conservatives and independents, the left needs to make their message patriotic, and re-associate patriotism with progressive values. The Melting Pot is what makes us American. Liberty and Justice for All is what makes us American. All Men Are Created Equal is what makes us American.
To win some conservatives and independents, the left needs to make their message patriotic, and re-associate patriotism with progressive values. The Melting Pot is what makes us American. Liberty and Justice for All is what makes us American. All Men Are Created Equal is what makes us American.
Shake Appeal
Member
Well said. I have my own thoughts on the systemic problems but I would prefer knowing the leadership were actually listening to these types of posts.
The One and Done
Member
No. She was fucking terrible and her message was too.
Call me crazy, but wasn't that supposed to be the whole thing about the "Bernie Movement" that we saw before he was thrown under a bus by his own party?
But honestly though, this is the biggest irony playing out right now. You'd think that with Trump continuously proving how he can can go up and beyond the call of somehow pissing people off, you'd have democrats all over it to build the momentum for at least the 2018 elections and then the 2020 elections. With that said though, it does feel like no one is bothering to capitalize on this and are letting this slip away as if to think that it will be easy to overthrow Trump next time by doing nothing different.
We'll see what happens, but it is going to be rather ironic if we see in 2018, nothing actually changes in the house or senate.
tearsintherain
Member
A (charming, younger) democrat will win with the basic message of universal, single payer healthcare and democratic pundits will spend years trying to analyze why it took so long for someone to get on it. I know Bernie has had that message for a long time and he's come close but he's got some baggage (age, politician for life) that hurt him more in the primary than a theoretical general.
You get someone like Gavin Newsom (California Lt Gov) or Julian Castro in 2019 to run on free health care for all and I think its a fairly easy win. Get some corporate beholden "well... we need to compromise to make sure Health care stocks don't go down" shill instead and it'll be Trump 2020.
You get someone like Gavin Newsom (California Lt Gov) or Julian Castro in 2019 to run on free health care for all and I think its a fairly easy win. Get some corporate beholden "well... we need to compromise to make sure Health care stocks don't go down" shill instead and it'll be Trump 2020.
titiklabingapat
Member
'Impeach Trump' is just as good as 'Repeal Obamacare'.
'Change we can believe' was essentially 'Fuck Bush'.
'Change we can believe' was essentially 'Fuck Bush'.
jimmypython
Member
I think a promise to make sure people call all the shots will be good.
Eggplant Wizard
Member
Yes! I enjoyed a 2015 Sanders rally a lot, but he did a 5-minute bit which boiled down to "we've moved forward on race, LGBT, and women's justice, but backward on economic justice," and it made for a big hole in his message. It makes a lot of the Democratic base feel left out. Backward movement for the working class IS backward movement for marginalized groups.
Taibbi says Democrats need a message while ignoring the fact that they HAVE had a message. Quist ran on a clear, simple platform of protecting healthcare and public lands - a far cry from "Trump is bad, vote for me." He still lost.
Bernie was never thrown under the bus, least of all by his own party considering that he isn't even a Democrat. He got enormous control over the Democratic platform for a primary loser and he even had his own unity tour. How much more were the Dems supposed to give him short of disenfranchising millions of Clinton voters by handing him the nomination?
Yep. Preferably someone young, too.
Bernie was never thrown under the bus, least of all by his own party considering that he isn't even a Democrat. He got enormous control over the Democratic platform for a primary loser and he even had his own unity tour. How much more were the Dems supposed to give him short of disenfranchising millions of Clinton voters by handing him the nomination?
Yep. Preferably someone young, too.
This post is right on the money. The party structures are simply behemoths that are too large to coherently navigate on political issues.
YourMaster
Member
Well, that is a message of unity, and or integration of strangers. Not of progress. 'Change' is a message of progress. Anything with terms like 'Future', 'Tomorrow', 'Progress' or 'Forward' will give you a message that will appeal to progressive sensibilities.
Ziltoidia 9
Member
Dems have a message, just the current party establishment don't like it. Money in politics = their payday.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
I find it hard to take seriously the notion that somehow money should or could not play a role in politics. Some things are just the way the world works.
I think it's important to at least acknowledge the reality that we're living in before there can be legitimate, rational solutions.
aspaceman55
Member
[]
The wait for a young, likable candidate on the left is enough time for one to emerge on the right, and neither Sanders or Trump were spring chickens. It's ironic that the more inclusive party is always hung up on questions of image.
A homely looking dude canvassing on the local level is better than the pretty face that does nothing.
A homely looking dude canvassing on the local level is better than the pretty face that does nothing.
It constantly bears repeating that approval numbers in a two-party system are not the same as who would vote for you: Democrats tanking approval numbers probably come from Berners who are still mad about the primary and from leftists who feel like the party let them down because of their electoral ineptitude, but they still would never vote Republican.
Ditto GOP numbers on the other side. Trump's declining approval could come from the fact that we don't have a wall yet as much as from people who really don't want one, but the people disappointed in the fact that we don't have roving deportation gangs yet are still going to vote Republican.
It's just like the problem with ACA approval numbers. Some folks were just mad that it wasn't Medicare For All.
Ditto GOP numbers on the other side. Trump's declining approval could come from the fact that we don't have a wall yet as much as from people who really don't want one, but the people disappointed in the fact that we don't have roving deportation gangs yet are still going to vote Republican.
It's just like the problem with ACA approval numbers. Some folks were just mad that it wasn't Medicare For All.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yup. I don't trust any numbers about how "unpopular" the GOP is. People still vote
It's not really. It's a bit of a disingenuous argument. It's been more than 6 and a half months since Hillary Clinton made any kind of stump speech or argument for why she ought to be president. On the flip side, Trump has effectively been "campaigning" non-stop for the last 6+ months. He's headline news for one reason or another literally every single day, and for his base that's great, and they're plenty galvanized to go right back out there and vote for him again right now. Hillary wouldn't have that level of enthusiasm from most people at this exact moment, even people who despise Trump, because she hasn't been in the public eye. You'd be more likely get a "yeah, I guess I'd vote for Hillary" sort of response than anything else.
Given that sort of situation, 6 months into his first term the president SHOULD be expected to win if a runoff was randomly held that very instant. Even a president like Donald Trump.
andythinkpad
Member
"Time to End the Clown Show - The Rock for President"
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
I pledge you, I pledge myself, to a new deal for the American people.