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News Game Dev Developers Begin to Weigh in on the Power Gap Between the Xbox Series X and PlayStation 5. Series X taking the power crown "from all accounts".

DynamiteCop!

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Mar 3, 2018
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I'm a playstation guy but im intrigued about the differences in both architectures. At the end it comes down to price. All that supposed xbox power has to cost more unless microsoft wants to lose big money the first 3 years at least
Do you think Sony's SSD costs the same as Microsoft's or something? They might have actually of matched them in BoM while putting out a considerably weaker product.
 

Kagey K

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Dec 18, 2013
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I'm a playstation guy but im intrigued about the differences in both architectures. At the end it comes down to price. All that supposed xbox power has to cost more unless microsoft wants to lose big money the first 3 years at least
As a curiosity, what is it in the series X that makes it cost so much?

And what do you think that magic SSD costs in comparison?
 

SlyFoxC

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Haven’t gone back. I work on a PC all day and don’t want to sit in front of one at home as well.

Ive dabbled at bit since I had decent laptops, but I can’t see myself getting back into the building scene and chasing those high end specs again.

It’s not like it was back then where I was playing Hexen/Heretic/Decent vs 2D platformers on console.

Maybe if PC took a giant leap over consoles again and were delivering something other than better graphics on the same games, I’d come back.
This is where I am at also. Work in IT and just cant sit at a PC when I get home. I was a PC guy up until this gen and then I switched over to consoles. I honestly dont know if I will ever do back.
 

Hendrick's

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Im failing to see where any of the information of your post has appeared from, other than from thin air. We have no idea about the relation between the CPU and GPU clocks or what the power draw levels even are. Anyone who says they know is lying at this point in time or has internal leaks.

We will have to wait and see for how they relate.
What are you failing to find? The PS5 uses smart shift which is a shared power budget across GPU and CPU. That means that both will not be able to run at peak at the same time.
 

thelastword

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Apr 7, 2006
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I saw RDR2 running side by side on Pro and X, and if I'm honest I couldn't see a difference.
I think without a doubt the PS5 will do 4k, as the X did in alot of instances and the PSS5 will be the equivalent of 15-16 tflops of the X architecture, while the CPU can do 60fps easily compared to the Jaguar CPU.
Tbh, higher rez is a great thing, just not at the cost of framerate, ideally both are warranted and that's why I can see next gen hitting 4K native consistently on both consoles, but more importantly along with high framerates or 60fps…….I don't think 4k 60 will be an issue at all......So the Series X will have to do something else to prove itself alongside PS5....because I don't think they will go for 5K on Series X, because that will put it in the XBONEX situation with framerates..........PS5 is poised to win on loadtimes, textures and sound apart from 4K 60fps...…so these comparisons will be interesting...

It's at this point that I miss Lens of Truth......These guys were so thorough and covered lots of elements......Personally I think for these tech outlets to thrive a complete analysis should include; Visuals, Audio, Physics, HDR, Controller Feedback, Loadtimes, TextureWork/LOD and of course framerate.....Tech outlets will have to step up next gen...
 
Aug 28, 2019
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I don't know the context of the argument here but that member is right.

Neogaf (nowadays since the PS5 reveal) has become a haven for fanboys to ruin thread after thread with console warrior nonsense

Yeah I don't disagree; but there's 2 aspects to that problem. Fanboys being irrational, and the constant accusations of fanboyism. Both things feed off of each other; Rational people just debating pros and cons get accused right along the people who deserve it.

If everyone just dropped that shit it would be overall better. Argue against people's logic or correct their misinformation and there is no need to accuse people, it will just be evident.
 
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EventHorizon

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Jul 15, 2013
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You pretty much lost me after you equated Tflops to resolution. The two don't have to go hand in hand. Dropping resolution would help if PS4 has less ROPs, but doing so won't help it make up a gap in floating point calculations.
Sure because pixel/fragment shaders aren't a thing, dynamic resolution scaling to improve performance is a myth, and everyone is playing at 4K reguardless of the TFLOPs of their GPU. /s
 
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Renozokii

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Nov 4, 2019
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Try to be a bit less obvious in showing your Xbox biases. Ori is fine and all buts its not in the same league as Nioh. Its gameplay alone is enough reason to ''struggle through'', but since you probably don't even own a PS to play it, let me tell you the world building is plenty fine.

People like you have such a one dimensional thought process, I'll talk all day about why I think Ori is a more important exclusive, but not to a douche who goes with the fanboy argument the second I say one game is better than another. P.S, both critics and users agree Ori and the will of the wasps is a better game, so all fanboys?

And no. In Nioh 1 and in everything I've seen in Nioh 2, the world is uninteresting mediocrity. I know you didn't compare it to the soulsborne series, but there is no lack of evidence that the world building and story telling in those games eclipses Nioh from looking at how active and huge the community discussing and learning the lore was.

I think the combat in Nioh is shit to be frank. Its dark souls combat with a bunch of anime type of moves added, none of the nuance, and much poorer enemy design.
 
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S0ULZB0URNE

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People like you have such a one dimensional thought process, I'll talk all day about why I think Ori is a more important exclusive, but not to a douche who goes with the fanboy argument the second I say one game is better than another. P.S, both critics and users agree Ori and the will of the wasps is a better game, so all fanboys?

And no. In Nioh 1 and in everything I've seen in Nioh 2, the world is uninteresting mediocrity. I know you didn't compare it to the soulsborne series, but there is no lack of evidence that the world building and story telling in those games eclipses Nioh from looking at how active and huge the community discussing and learning the lore was.

I think the combat in Nioh is shit to be frank. Its dark souls combat with a bunch of anime type of moves added, none of the nuance, and much poorer enemy design.
One dimensional (!) is Ori's gameplay in comparison to Nioh.
 

oldergamer

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Sure because pixel/fragment shaders aren't a thing, dynamic resolution scaling to improve performance is a myth, and everyone is playing at 4K reguardless of the TFLOPs of their GPU. /s
I'm not sure what the point you are trying to make is?
 

vdopey

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Jun 13, 2019
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Except that actually makes a car faster; feeding data to a GPU does not make it faster or improve it's "performance".

It increases the variety of assets that can be used within a visible area, and streamed while the players viewpoint is changing (and can handle a player "moving more quickly"). That is not "GPU performance" like many people are claiming. It is potentially making your games look better/cooler more detailed though, so maybe it doesn't matter HOW it's discussed, but car analogies don't work very well.

what i meant by the analogy is take the data to be fuel and the cylinders on the engine to be the cu units of the gpu obviously having more cus generates more power, but a fuel injection system or a turbo pumps more fuel / data into those cylinders / cu -units. If the cylinder can process that fuel efficiently it produces more power.

Obviously a gpu / computer is far more complicated, but the analogy does kind of make sense if you think about it. The turbo unit or a fuel injection system does nothing more than add fuel / air faster into the combustion - it doesnt add another cylinder to increase the power generation / it doesn't combust the fuel and produce extra power - it merely injects more fuel / air into the system, however this does make the car run faster.

this however does not necessarily mean having a faster ssd will magically improve the performance of the ps5 gpu, it will help make data more readily available to both the gpu and cpu, but the ram is a potential bottleneck, the number of cus processing if they aren't efficient at handling the data is a bottle neck etc etc.. The PS5 has had to compromise raw power for this ssd and I personally dont know if this compromise will be worthwhile.

This is what I meant by the example I gave, I saw some one get offended by the analogy call us all a bunch of fanboys and get quite irritated, it is a logical analogy though, but your right car analogies don't work very well, there is a lot more involved in rendering than just burning fuel and producing controlled explosions :) Also the whole car analogy dies when were talking about electric cars :D
 

V4skunk

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Do you think Sony's SSD costs the same as Microsoft's or something? They might have actually of matched them in BoM while putting out a considerably weaker product.
PS5 considerably weaker? 🤣🤣🤣
This is the closest it has ever been. 15-20% difference.... PS4 was 40% more powerful than Xbone...
 

DaMonsta

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Jan 10, 2020
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PS5 considerably weaker? 🤣🤣🤣
This is the closest it has ever been. 15-20% difference.... PS4 was 40% more powerful than Xbone...
I don’t think it works like that.

Just going by the GPU if these were PC parts. I think most people would consider a 2TF difference “considerable”

And that’s without talking about the faster CPU and RAM.

While I don’t think there will be huge differences in 3rd party titles, I think lots of people are being dishonest with themselves over the difference in raw power between the two systems.
 
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martino

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Apr 25, 2013
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down the road with hdmi 2.1 even 10 frames/sec will matter.
buying the two was 18% on that ign poll if i remember well and not the 18% of ign spending the less.
 
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Kumomeme

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Mar 20, 2017
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we have tons of devs saying positive things with ps5 (and also xbox series x) and yet these single 'staggering' raw tf differences comment become ultimate gospel for them

i cant fathom what kind of 'reality' they actually want..i mean xsx definitely stronger here...just can rest easy with the fact....but what kind of reality did they hope want to keep push instead?

people probably talk more about ps5 is due how people intriguing at method the console could use to close the gap with its rival and also due to 'unique' stuff in it. Instead of giving wired interview or let df doing technical breakdown, the lead architect itself giving a live technical presentation which is surely gained more attention than usual thats all.
 
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FranXico

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Just going by the GPU if these were PC parts. I think most people would consider a 2TF difference “considerable”
2TF on top of a 10+TF baseline.
Still less than the kind of differences we had in previous generations.

For example, 500GF difference has more impact when you're talking about GPUs that are below 2TF.
 

DaMonsta

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2TF on top of a 10+TF baseline.
Still less than the kind of differences we had in previous generations.

For example, 500GF difference has more impact when you're talking about GPUs that are below 2TF.
Sure but if AMD announced a 10TF and a 12TF card tomorrow. I don’t think anyone would be trying to downplay the difference.

There’s a significant difference in raw power there. Especially considering these are RDNA2 flops
 
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Max_Po

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Mar 1, 2015
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down the road with hdmi 2.1 even 10 frames/sec will matter.
buying the two was 18% on that ign poll if i remember well and not the 18% of ign spending the less.


IGN does not define jacks shit. The world is dealing with pandemic, they are not monitoring IGN's poll question to update so they can vote. Everyone is looking for toilet paper to keep their cracks clean.
 

FranXico

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Sure but if AMD announced a 10TF and a 12TF card tomorrow. I don’t think anyone would be trying to downplay the difference.

There’s a significant difference in raw power there. Especially considering these are RDNA2 flops
Sure there is a difference. And it is noticeable. But I can guarantee you that on the contrary, nobody would be blowing it out of proportion calling it "staggering" or "immense" or even "huge", unlike what some are doing here.
 
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DaMonsta

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Sure there is a difference. And it is noticeable. But I can guarantee you that on the contrary, nobody would be blowing it out of proportion calling it "staggering" or "immense" or even "huge", unlike what some are doing here.
Console wars will never end and those are all subjective terms.

It’s all perspective. One persons “huge” can be another persons “considerable”
 

FranXico

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Dec 7, 2010
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Console wars will never end and those are all subjective terms.

It’s all perspective. One persons “huge” can be another persons “considerable”
Or lack thereof.

But I agree about console wars.
 

LostDonkey

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Nov 4, 2015
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PS5 XBSX

Cores:2304 Cores:3328
TMUs:144 TMUs:208
Rops:64 Rops:80
Bus:256 Bit Bus:320 Bit

That's a substantial difference between the two platforms for those trying to push that the only difference is 18% and limited to CU count.

No wonder developers are coming out in droves stating it's staggering how much more performance the XBSX gives.

43% more cores.
44% more TMUs
25% more Rops
25% more Mem Bus.
 
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V4skunk

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I don’t think it works like that.

Just going by the GPU if these were PC parts. I think most people would consider a 2TF difference “considerable”

And that’s without talking about the faster CPU and RAM.

While I don’t think there will be huge differences in 3rd party titles, I think lots of people are being dishonest with themselves over the difference in raw power between the two systems.
Sounds like you are the one in denial.
This gen will be closer than ever.
 

Genx3

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Jun 23, 2019
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2TF on top of a 10+TF baseline.
Still less than the kind of differences we had in previous generations.

For example, 500GF difference has more impact when you're talking about GPUs that are below 2TF.

You can still do a lot more work with 2TF's RDNA2 than you can with 500GF's of GCN.
 

Bumblebeetuna

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Jun 23, 2008
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PS5 XBSX

Cores:2304 Cores:3328
TMUs:144 TMUs:208
Rops:64 Rops:80
Bus:256 Bit Bus:320 Bit

That's a substantial difference between the two platforms for those trying to push that the only difference is 18% and limited to CU count.

No wonder developers are coming out in droves stating it's staggering how much more performance the XBSX gives.

43% more cores.
44% more TMUs
25% more tops
25% more Mem Bus.

I’m not seeing SSD in here anywhere, where is the boost it gives all of these components to put PS5 ahead?
 

hyperbertha

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Nov 24, 2018
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People like you have such a one dimensional thought process, I'll talk all day about why I think Ori is a more important exclusive, but not to a douche who goes with the fanboy argument the second I say one game is better than another. P.S, both critics and users agree Ori and the will of the wasps is a better game, so all fanboys?

And no. In Nioh 1 and in everything I've seen in Nioh 2, the world is uninteresting mediocrity. I know you didn't compare it to the soulsborne series, but there is no lack of evidence that the world building and story telling in those games eclipses Nioh from looking at how active and huge the community discussing and learning the lore was.

I think the combat in Nioh is shit to be frank. Its dark souls combat with a bunch of anime type of moves added, none of the nuance, and much poorer enemy design.
Read through what you wrote again. And tell me how I should take this seriously. Did you just call Nioh's combat bad?
 

ZywyPL

Member
Nov 27, 2018
4,455
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PS5 XBSX

Cores:2304 Cores:3328
TMUs:144 TMUs:208
Rops:64 Rops:80
Bus:256 Bit Bus:320 Bit

That's a substantial difference between the two platforms for those trying to push that the only difference is 18% and limited to CU count.

No wonder developers are coming out in droves stating it's staggering how much more performance the XBSX gives.

43% more cores.
44% more TMUs
25% more Rops
25% more Mem Bus.

Source?
 

nordique

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Sep 17, 2011
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If we know both are more or less the same with CPU and Ram, but one has a more powerful GPU, then why is this argued or debated?

This argument is like Xbone vs PS4 all over again, except it was ESRAM and Cloud computing instead of magic SSD
 
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Mendou

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kingbean

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As a curiosity, what is it in the series X that makes it cost so much?

And what do you think that magic SSD costs in comparison?

I don't think you got an answer on this, but the reason for the Xbox's likely higher price is due to the silicon cost on the chip. More CUs more silicon for the die. Bigger die costs more.
At the same time the PS5 has customer chips for its SSD, so who knows really.
 

SLB1904

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Can we just wait to see games running on both machines?

Look at resi evil 3. 6tf vs 4tf. But hey tf is evrything
 

SLB1904

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wasnt One X pushing way more pixels than Pro?
Exactly. Thats what tf are for. To push more pixels, and everything gos to shit.
Thats why cerny is using different clockd yhrough gou and cpu. Same games uses more gpu than cpu. And ps5 csn adjust accordingly. But lets see how that pans out
 

geordiemp

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it would be nice to see some dev thoughts,

However, I am not going to listen to the FUD from Windows central, Timdog and their FUD campaign and others who are bitter towards Sony.

Pathetic.
 
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Peenolia010

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Dec 26, 2019
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It does when it comes to streaming data right in front of you. Mark Cerny even mentioned it.
I will always take Mark Cerny at his words. The things that I think EVERYONE should pump the breaks on are taking these new technologies that are being introduced in the new systems as gospel

Real world implementations from feature of both consoles in games will show what these consoles are capable of besides the the normal Tflop, cpu, and memory setups of the past.
 

DForce

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I will always take Mark Cerny at his words. The things that I think EVERYONE should pump the breaks on are taking these new technologies that are being introduced in the new systems as gospel

Real world implementations from feature of both consoles in games will show what these consoles are capable of besides the the normal Tflop, cpu, and memory setups of the past.
Streaming data is nothing new. That's where you're lost. As people have been referencing the Spider-Man GDC video, mere seconds mage a huge difference.

Spider-Man's movement speed was factor in.
Delaying texture streaming was factor in.

One SSD is clearly more faster than the other and that means a streaming budget would need to be considered if games are released on multiple platforms.

You cannot deny raw numbers. If it wasn't a factor, then Mark Cerny would have gone for a lower SSD speed.
 

Peenolia010

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Streaming data is nothing new. That's where you're lost. As people have been referencing the Spider-Man GDC video, mere seconds mage a huge difference.

Spider-Man's movement speed was factor in.
Delaying texture streaming was factor in.

One SSD is clearly more faster than the other and that means a streaming budget would need to be considered if games are released on multiple platforms.

You cannot deny raw numbers. If it wasn't a factor, then Mark Cerny would have gone for a lower SSD speed.
I am not disputing any of that by any stretch. What I will say is that I'm here to get a better understanding as to why people that favor a said console brag and boast about it while tearing down the other? And I know everyone isn't this way and the way the forum is at the moment makes it hard tell who's level headed and who's the extreme.

Back to the topic. I've seen that Spiderman demonstration about a dozen times and I was excited with each play through. But what I wonder about is will those same speeds be plausible for PS5 games that are using all the bells and whistles on high? Given that it's what, roughly 10x's the theoretical output of the base PS4 would mean it's simply easy to achieve those loading speeds in the Spiderman game?
 

DForce

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I am not disputing any of that by any stretch. What I will say is that I'm here to get a better understanding as to why people that favor a said console brag and boast about it while tearing down the other? And I know everyone isn't this way and the way the forum is at the moment makes it hard tell who's level headed and who's the extreme.

Back to the topic. I've seen that Spiderman demonstration about a dozen times and I was excited with each play through. But what I wonder about is will those same speeds be plausible for PS5 games that are using all the bells and whistles on high? Given that it's what, roughly 10x's the theoretical output of the base PS4 would mean it's simply easy to achieve those loading speeds in the Spiderman game?

The way the engine is constructed now, it should be much easier for the PS5 to achieve with a lot of enhancements.

What Mark Cerny wants to make it possible to load data right when you turn. This method would allow for better detail in comparison to streaming data only in the area you in.