splattered
Member
Just a couple days ago everyone here was saying DF are a bunch of Microsoft cheerleaders and not to listen to anything they say or do... I dunno seemed like they were pretty positive about what Sony showed today.
Yes I love my audio too. Having good surround sound in game is so immersive. I find it very annoying now playing on TV speakers. (shivers down the spine)I just need to know the price at this point I always game with a nice headset so I’m super stoked for the audio
Ive read multiple times on here today that exclusives don’t matter and 95% of games are multiplatform so who cares. Of course if Xbox had them...To be fair, if Sony came in and smacked the Series X specs, the Sony fanboys would be going goofy about the specs. But since that isn't the case, you're hearing excuses.
The only thing funny here is Sony's machine, and the fanboys who clung to their blind faith going into this, only to leave disappointed.
As far as raw numbers go; this machine is okay for next gen, at best.
Cerny opened his dialogue with the over complications of the PS3, and then proceeded to talk about the lack of simplicity that the PS5 is; "We're giving you guys power...but under these conditions." That's not simplicity. You want simplicity, then listen to Microsoft's approach; "We're giving you power, full stop!" And that's exactly what they're doing. No stipulations, no ifs, buts or maybes. Just raw, stable, unconstrained, non-fluctuating power for developers to do as they please with it. That's a win, in my book.
A more powerful console... Throw back-compat in with that... Throw Xcloud and game streaming in with that, and I don't see how you can go wrong!
People want to talk about games? We hear the trolls all the time "Xbox has no games!" Well guess who's coming out the gate with hundreds of games from the original Xbox, to the Xbox 360, to the Xbox One, and new games from new (and competent studios) for the Xbox Series X? Yup! Guess who doesn't have games now? No, it's not Xbox.
People like to dress up their hurt, but call a spade a spade!
The Xbox Series X, out the gate is a more powerful console, that supports hundreds of games with backward compatibility, game streaming and cross platform with PC! And for those reasons alone, they have earned my money!
Now, can you kindly please stop moving the goalposts and wear your L on your chest like a man.
Well said. A lot of true colours shown here today.Ive read multiple times on here today that exclusives don’t matter and 95% of games are multiplatform so who cares. Of course if Xbox had them...
What I’ve learned today is we have far less enthusiasts and far more fanboys than I thought
This video was too intelligent for me.
I want hyperbole and yelling.
You get it. I was waiting for someone else to actually understand what is being done here. It is quite elegant and incredibly unique. People saying it won’t be hitting peak are wrong. If sustained peak levels are needed by the game / developers it will be available and not bouncing all over the place like some presume. This is a new type of boost. Not the same thing that is used on phones and certainly not the same boost as the pro.Ok. Watching the presentation I sort of got what Cerny & co. are trying to do but I lost it after reading all the doomsday talk on here.
This DF video brought it back to me. What I get is they are really going for a paradigm shift in the way data/bandwith is handled and available to the developers, be it RAM or ssd. More efficient handling of RAM. More efficient handling of geometry/culling. Essentially more bang for the buck so to speak.
The boost situation as I understand it is entirely in the hands of the developers, and dependent on power usage, not temperatures i.e. not some weird random throttling, but repeatable and controllable across all consoles. This is maybe the biggest paradigm shift and the hardest to wrap my head around.
What Im getting is that the PS5 will be able to throw massive amounts of data around fast: up on the screen, game/a.i logic, sound etc.
I imagine there will be some impressive games developed with all this in mind, that simply would not be possible on other platforms.
tl;dr Im probably just a Sony fanboy thirsty for some koolaid
Cool video, and indeed they highlighted a couple of things that were great during the presentation: audio, and of course ssd.
Im personally a big audiophile, so definitely would like to know more about the sony's solution for that. It seems really great.
Meh. Tflops is all people care about.
It does not mean PS5 will suddenly drop to 8TF because it over heats. No it means the frequency can drop because the game does not demand much from the SoC.
Hope that helps explain some stuff based on how i as a lay person understands it.
Lol at the other place in thread about this video some sony fanboys are actually trying to peddle the theory that the PS5s high clock speed compensates for its lower cu and tflop count compared to the xsx's GPU, those guys are worse then politicians lol.
No that's not it. Every developer is working under a guaranteed 10.28TF, that being the model SoC Cerny talked about that all SoC must perform like. just like how every developer on PS4 works under a guaranteed 1.8TF GPU. You can't push the system beyond that enough for it throttle down and cause performance issue. If your game demands less it lowers frequency, if your game demands more it increases frequency up to the maximum standard 10.28TF. The thermal design is designed for that as the maximum (of course there is overhead to guarantee a baseline performance based on the environment you physically place the console in).That's not how I interpreted it.
The system will typically run at max boost. But obviously if you're playing FTL on it it's not going to use the same amount of power it would running GTA6 because the actual utilization is low.
So if you're playing GTA6 during the most demanding scene it's going to throttle itself a few percent to drop power usage by 10%. In other words, they have a cooling solution that runs optimally in all but the above conditions, so the throttling becomes necessary at that point.
No that's not it. Every developer is working under a guaranteed 10.28TF just like how every developer on PS4 works under a guaranteed 1.8TF GPU. You can't push the system beyond that enough for it throttle down and cause performance issue. If your game demands less it lowers frequency, if your game demands more it increases frequency up to the maximum standard 10.28TF. The thermal design is designed for that as the maximum (of course there is overhead to guarantee a baseline performance based on the environment you physically place the console in).
People not understanding what was presented to them. No the PS5 is not 9.2TF or 8TF, it is 10.28TF theoretical TF just like XSX is 12.155 theoretical TF.
Variable in this sense does not mean the GPU throttles down and performance of the game suffers. Its not like in mobile SoC where the cpu and gpu throttle up for a couple of seconds then throttle down to save power.
First is
Smart-shift AMD tech. The GPU and CPU no longer have independent fixed power budget. Both processors share a common power budget but of course the GPU will demand more than the CPU. This means that when the CPU is not performing intensive tasks, more power will be pushed into the GPU and when the GPU is not performing intensive task and then the CPU gets more if it needs it. No two games or parts of a game demands the same amount of processing power, this allows for dynamic power management between CPU and GPU for any given moment.
Second is Variable Frequency
The GPU and CPU have a capped frequency that all SoC must be able to hit. 3.5GHz CPU and 2.23GHz (10.28TF performance) for GPU. This is the thermal limit of the designed cooling system. It does not matter what environment you place the system within normal use case, it should be able to handle the heat generated from pushing the SoC to the capped 3.5GHz CPU and 2.23GHz GPU. This means that rather than running the GPU and CPU at a constant frequency while varying the power based on workload, they instead supply both CPU and GPU a constant power, enough to reach 3.5 and 2.23 GHz for GPU and CPU but allow the frequency to change based on workload.
Think of it like dynamic resolution, instead of running the game at 1080p constant and tearing a frame or dropping frame rate, you lower the resolution along any of the axis to maintain framerate.
In essence, PS4 runs at a constant 1.6GHz CPU and 800MHz GPU but the power consumed depends on the game. That is why you hear fan ramp up for some games and not others. With PS5 they pushed the system to a limit and designed the cooling system to handle that limit but the CPU and GPU can control their frequency based on the given workload it is doing. It does not mean PS5 will suddenly drop to 8TF because it over heats. No it means the frequency can drop because the game does not demand much from the SoC.
Hope that helps explain some stuff based on how i as a lay person understands it.
That's how i did first but when you add the smart shit tech, it starts to make sense. They want the console to have a consistent performance but allow it to dynamically adjust power usage and change frequency based on any given workload.
Well said and thank you for the detailed explanation. Hopefully this will help more people to understand what they have accomplished here. Quite remarkable really.People not understanding what was presented to them. No the PS5 is not 9.2TF or 8TF, it is 10.28TF theoretical TF just like XSX is 12.155 theoretical TF.
Variable in this sense does not mean the GPU throttles down and performance of the game suffers. Its not like in mobile SoC where the cpu and gpu throttle up for a couple of seconds then throttle down to save power.
First is
Smart-shift AMD tech. The GPU and CPU no longer have independent fixed power budget. Both processors share a common power budget but of course the GPU will demand more than the CPU. This means that when the CPU is not performing intensive tasks, more power will be pushed into the GPU and when the GPU is not performing intensive task and then the CPU gets more if it needs it. No two games or parts of a game demands the same amount of processing power, this allows for dynamic power management between CPU and GPU for any given moment.
Second is Variable Frequency
The GPU and CPU have a capped frequency that all SoC must be able to hit. 3.5GHz CPU and 2.23GHz (10.28TF performance) for GPU. This is the thermal limit of the designed cooling system. It does not matter what environment you place the system within normal use case, it should be able to handle the heat generated from pushing the SoC to the capped 3.5GHz CPU and 2.23GHz GPU. This means that rather than running the GPU and CPU at a constant frequency while varying the power based on workload, they instead supply both CPU and GPU a constant power, enough to reach 3.5 and 2.23 GHz for GPU and CPU but allow the frequency to change based on workload.
Think of it like dynamic resolution, instead of running the game at 1080p constant and tearing a frame or dropping frame rate, you lower the resolution along any of the axis to maintain framerate.
In essence, PS4 runs at a constant 1.6GHz CPU and 800MHz GPU but the power consumed depends on the game. That is why you hear fan ramp up for some games and not others. With PS5 they pushed the system to a limit and designed the cooling system to handle that limit but the CPU and GPU can control their frequency based on the given workload it is doing. It does not mean PS5 will suddenly drop to 8TF because it over heats. No it means the frequency can drop because the game does not demand much from the SoC.
Hope that helps explain some stuff based on how i as a lay person understands it.
Please watch the video again, they literally stated PS5 GPU have been overclock.People not understanding what was presented to them. No the PS5 is not 9.2TF or 8TF, it is 10.28TF theoretical TF just like XSX is 12.155 theoretical TF.
Variable in this sense does not mean the GPU throttles down and performance of the game suffers. Its not like in mobile SoC where the cpu and gpu throttle up for a couple of seconds then throttle down to save power.
First is
Smart-shift AMD tech. The GPU and CPU no longer have independent fixed power budget. Both processors share a common power budget but of course the GPU will demand more than the CPU. This means that when the CPU is not performing intensive tasks, more power will be pushed into the GPU and when the GPU is not performing intensive task and then the CPU gets more if it needs it. No two games or parts of a game demands the same amount of processing power, this allows for dynamic power management between CPU and GPU for any given moment.
Second is Variable Frequency
The GPU and CPU have a capped frequency that all SoC must be able to hit. 3.5GHz CPU and 2.23GHz (10.28TF performance) for GPU. This is the thermal limit of the designed cooling system. It does not matter what environment you place the system within normal use case, it should be able to handle the heat generated from pushing the SoC to the capped 3.5GHz CPU and 2.23GHz GPU. This means that rather than running the GPU and CPU at a constant frequency while varying the power based on workload, they instead supply both CPU and GPU a constant power, enough to reach 3.5 and 2.23 GHz for GPU and CPU but allow the frequency to change based on workload.
Think of it like dynamic resolution, instead of running the game at 1080p constant and tearing a frame or dropping frame rate, you lower the resolution along any of the axis to maintain framerate.
In essence, PS4 runs at a constant 1.6GHz CPU and 800MHz GPU but the power consumed depends on the game. That is why you hear fan ramp up for some games and not others. With PS5 they pushed the system to a limit and designed the cooling system to handle that limit but the CPU and GPU can control their frequency based on the given workload it is doing. It does not mean PS5 will suddenly drop to 8TF because it over heats. No it means the frequency can drop because the game does not demand much from the SoC.
Hope that helps explain some stuff based on how i as a lay person understands it.
That's how i did first but when you add the smart shit tech, it starts to make sense. They want the console to have a consistent performance but allow it to dynamically adjust power usage and change frequency based on any given workload.
Cool? I'm sure they can but I never mentioned Microsoft at any point. Microsoft and Sony are going for a different design philosophy. Narrow fast vs Wide slow. AMD mentioned at their investors day that they will begin to ship multi Gigahertz GPUs so i guess this is a confirmation that RDNA 2 can clock very high.Please watch the video again, they literally stated PS5 GPU have been overclock.
Microsoft could boost XSX GPU to 2ghz too based on that. Remember when Microsoft OC XBO? While Sony already used the headroom by OC it at 2.2GHZ.
This video made me feel a little better, but I still see a glaring performance gap in the specifications.
I'm a simply layman, so I don't really know anything. As Bill O'Reilly used to say "The spinnn... stops right here".
To me, if something is 10.3 and the other is 12.1, there's no real "spin" you can put on that. It is a weaker system, by what? 20%?
Same with the CPU being weaked. I mean, what is the counter argument here? Not being an ass, just looking for knowledge and a better grasp.
Is the SSD somehow capable of offsetting these weaker GPU/CPU levels? It's an impressive piece of tech, to be sure.
Try down to 1TF in applications that don't need the frequency super high. When they said variable, they did not give a range meaning it can go lower than 10.28TF all the way down.Except based per game it can be even lower basically down to 9.2TF
After finishing the vid, the biggest question mark remaining for me is the Storage expansion
It’s gonna take a specialized pci 4.0 nvme drive to fit in the PS5, right? That can’t be cheap
Hate to say it but I might prefer MS’ solution here
Try down to 1TF in applications that don't need the frequency super high.
Digital Foundry have made a great, long analysis/explanatory video that made me digest 50% of that Mark Cerny crazy tech talk. I'm appreciating PS5 a lot more now, actually and it seems way more innovative than brute forcing. Take it like:
PS5: Nissan GT-R NISMO (600hp)
XSX: Dodge Challenger Hellcat (707hp)
Gearheads will understand what does that mean.
Backwards how?Again you keep saying this backwards.
Why stop at 9.2TF? Why not go as low as 8TF, 7TF, 6TF, 5TF or 4TF?Except based per game it can be even lower basically down to 9.2TF
When the multiplatforms comparisons come in, I think it'll be very close. I think alot of games
on X will hold native 4k more often, while ps5 maybe have the same scene drop to 1800p, but we'll need DF zoom lenses just to know how often it occurs. Framerate, lod, texture quality, will likely all be the same or extremely close.
Its fucking stupid isn't it? LolWhy stop at 9.2TF? Why not go as low as 8TF, 7TF, 6TF, 5TF or 4TF?
The more demanding the game the lower the TF on the PS5, correct? Is that how it works in your mind?
GT-R is a track monster. Dodge Challenger can only go straight.
Backwards how?
I’m curious to see if it’s resolution or framers that will fluctuate more on PS5 compared to XsX