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DF : Xbox Series S likely won’t be able to run Xbox One X enhanced content

CobraXT

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That’s according to a new Digital Foundry analysis, which notes that because Xbox Series S has less RAM than Microsoft’s highest-end
current-gen console (10GB vs 12 GB), it’s “almost a forgone conclusion” that its backwards compatible games will be drawing upon the
less powerful Xbox One S versions.

The $300 / £250 Xbox Series S was revealed earlier this week and will target running games at 1440p, with support for ray-tracing, 120fps
and 4K upscaling. The console has virtually the same CPU as the $500 Series X, but a less powerful GPU, less memory and no disc drive.

Within the current-gen ecosystem, Xbox One X versions of games are able to leverage the console’s additional power for higher resolution,
improved texture filtering, and expanded colour detail. One X offers similar improvements when running compatible Xbox 360 titles.

However, because of Series S’s memory deficit compared to One X, it likely won’t be able to run Xbox One or 360 games with the current-gen
console’s enhancements, it’s claimed.



Source
 
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RoboFu

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SlimySnake

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That is correct. it's not just the vram either. the gpu despite the IPC gains is not as powerful. MS at hot chips said that the IPC gains are 25% over last gen. At 4 rdna 2.0 tflops, we are looking at 5 polaris tflops which is clearly less than the 6 tflops X1X.

That said, any future games should run better on the XSX because they wouldve been ported to take full advantage of the CPU and SSD.
 

pawel86ck

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MS has said they would never design a console taking architecture gains into account (because in the early stages of desing architecture gains are unknown), but even with 25% RDNA gains 4TF will not match 6TF polaris. So most likely we will not see X1X enhanced games on XSS (XSS trailer shows x360 BC game running at 720p) but maybe MS will release new patches for XSS specifically. XSS should run BC games at 1080p easily.
 
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BluRayHiDef

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That is correct. it's not just the vram either. the gpu despite the IPC gains is not as powerful. MS at hot chips said that the IPC gains are 25% over last gen. At 4 rdna 2.0 tflops, we are looking at 5 polaris tflops which is clearly less than the 6 tflops X1X.

That said, any future games should run better on the XSX because they wouldve been ported to take full advantage of the CPU and SSD.

I read somewhere that RDNA 2.0 is 62% more efficient per teraflop. Hence, shouldn't we get the following?

4 RDNA 2.0 teraflops * 0.62 + 4 RDNA 2.0 teraflops = 6.48 GCN teraflops
 
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kruis

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That’s according to a new Digital Foundry analysis, which notes that because Xbox Series S has less RAM than Microsoft’s highest-end
current-gen console (10GB vs 12 GB), it’s “almost a forgone conclusion” that its backwards compatible games will be drawing upon the
less powerful Xbox One S versions.

The $300 / £250 Xbox Series S was revealed earlier this week and will target running games at 1440p, with support for ray-tracing, 120fps
and 4K upscaling. The console has virtually the same CPU as the $500 Series X, but a less powerful GPU, less memory and no disc drive.

Within the current-gen ecosystem, Xbox One X versions of games are able to leverage the console’s additional power for higher resolution,
improved texture filtering, and expanded colour detail. One X offers similar improvements when running compatible Xbox 360 titles.

However, because of Series S’s memory deficit compared to One X, it likely won’t be able to run Xbox One or 360 games with the current-gen
console’s enhancements, it’s claimed.



Source

It's not just the amount of RAM, the RAM speed itself is substantially slower on the S. I suspect the system OS will be pretty slow too. 2 GB RAM running at 56 GB/s doesn't inspire confidence.

10GB @ 560 GB/s, 6GB @ 336 GB/s8GB @ 224 GB/s, 2GB @ 56 GB/s
 

SlimySnake

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I read somewhere that RDNA 2.0 is 62% more efficient per teraflop. Hence, shouldn't we get the following?

4 RDNA 2.0 teraflops * 0.62 + 4 RDNA 2.0 teraflops = 6.48 GCN teraflops
i dont know where you read that but im getting my info straight my microsoft.

09:21PM EDT - CUs have 25% better perf/clock compared to last gen


regardless, if it was indeed 6.48 tflops, you wouldve got xbox running rdr2 at native 4k.
 
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Zuzu

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I really wish they had have made a diskless 9 teraflop machine priced at $400 for their budget model and a $600 premium machine which was stronger than a 3070 ~ like 3070ti level machine.
 

TLZ

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It's faster, has a more moder gpu and internal SSD, but in terms of raw power - the One X can redner more on the GPU side. That and 2 gigs of RAM less.
Its not about power but vram size and bandwidth .. i expected this monthes ago
I find this unacceptable tbh. A console equivalent to the One X should be the minimum. I still prefer the SX to be the minimum but the SS is around so..
 

GHG

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I'd say the only bad eggs were the original Xbox One with the stupid ESRAM setup and significantly weaker GPU vs PS4 and the Xbox Series S. The original Xbox, the 360 and the One X are all pretty well-designed especially against their rivals.

They are good when they just stick to the power plan. The power plan is also what they are known for so I don't know wtf they think they are doing attempting to be bootleg Nintendo.
 

BluRayHiDef

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i dont know where you read that but im getting my info straight my microsoft.

09:21PM EDT - CUs have 25% better perf/clock compared to last gen


regardless, if it was indeed 6.48 tflops, you wouldve got xbox running rdr2 at native 4k.

I think that I heard Cerny say so during the "Road to PS5" presentation.

EDIT:

What do you think about this?

Eurogamer said:
Spoilers: we're going to see some crazy results running the same workloads across the AMD generations over the next few pages, where the GCN 1.0 technology is going to fall short of both Polaris - and especially Navi - owing to its far more limited feature set and lower levels of raw horsepower. And that's where the GFXBench OpenGL benchmarks above may prove illuminating. Polaris vs Tahiti sees a 28 per cent increase in compute power, despite identical levels of rated compute and memory bandwidth. Navi vs Polaris sees another leap of the same magnitude. From Tahiti to Navi, a notional 32 CU part based on the new architecture would deliver a 62 per cent improvement in compute power.

 
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RoboFu

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ok i guess I should make a real reply.

1. DF are great but they are merely super users not developers.

2. xbox x doesnt use 12 gigs for games.

3. XsX nor XsS use all their ram for games. in fact there is a tiered system for ram use in every game beyond just leaving some for OS functions.

4. we will know more the closer we get to Nov

5. ???

6. Profit
 

Matsuchezz

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People do not panic, uncle Phil will come to address all your concerns he will explain why this is the best solution, and how this is the true coming of next gen for the masses, then he will explain some more and remove all fears from people’s hearts regarding power of the cloud and gamepass, then ronald mcdonald will sweeten the deal with Some BCPack & Sampler feedback streaming and Aaron greeenberg will hum a lullaby to all of you to have a good night sleep. They have a plan. No one should be worried. Botched games are alright.
 
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Bogroll

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Well it isn't a 4k console and as if by magic people who don't care bc and aren't going to but a Xbox will appear by magic
 
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Hendrick's

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Wouldn't the scaled back resolution of these back compats make this a non-issue? Or are they assuming it will try to run them at 4K like the One X?
 

SlimySnake

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I think that I heard Cerny say so during the "Road to PS5" presentation.

EDIT:

What do you think about this?



no cerny said they are 62% bigger, not 62% more powerful.

Tahiti is gcn 1.0 or xbox 1s or base ps4, we are looking at polaris which is what x1x is based off of. Polaris was roughly 25-30% more powerful than the tahiti. and rdna is 25-30% more powerful than polaris. which is how DF was getting that 62% figure.

In order for xss to be just as powerful as a 6 tflops polaris x1x, it would need 50% better performance over polaris, but its only 25% according to microsoft and AMD.

4 * 1.25 = 5 tflops
4 * 1.5 = 6 tflops
 
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Shrap

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Series S is tripping me out man. Imagine going from a One X to a Series S only to realise it's actually got a weaker GPU and lower resolution.

Has this ever happened with a console manufacturer releasing a successor that is weaker than its predecessor in graphical capability?
 
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The RAM is faster, that can really help make up any shortfall. I think it will be fine in that regard. Apples and Cooking Apples. It's not running content at 4K either.
 
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MastaKiiLA

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If true, then this is turning into the MS version of the 32X. A mid-tier offering that no one really asked for, but gets promoted by the manufacturer, only to introduce confusion and inevitable disappointment. I'm not understanding the strategy. It's not what I had originally anticipated. I hope, for their sake, that this rumor is not true.
 

IShowUBasics

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i wont buy any xbox at all but this doesnt really make sense. You do need much less RAM if you arent loading 4k texture into it. Also if xbox one s is "holding back" next gen what are 90% of steam users still using < 8 cores cpus? 3rd party games will have to run on notebook hardware / HDDs simply because companies want to sell to most PC players.