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DF : Xbox Series S likely won’t be able to run Xbox One X enhanced content
- Thread starter CobraXT
- Start date
JustP_Gaming
Banned
Nice try. but nothing will stop this thing, regardless of all the false narrative stories doing the rounds now.
Slings and Arrows
Banned
Hmm. So my 'only' choice for an upgrade from the X is the XSX.
I'm also a little confused about the XSS and how it fits in to microsoft's strategy. It can't play full BC (as in, upgrades not content) and will therefore fall short on the what gamepass can deliver experience wise, not content wise. The XSS also flies in the face of 'most powerful' (X, XSX).
I get the value proposition, but i can't help but think if MS should have added a 4k UHD drive and pulled a 'PS2' with this thing.
I'm also a little confused about the XSS and how it fits in to microsoft's strategy. It can't play full BC (as in, upgrades not content) and will therefore fall short on the what gamepass can deliver experience wise, not content wise. The XSS also flies in the face of 'most powerful' (X, XSX).
I get the value proposition, but i can't help but think if MS should have added a 4k UHD drive and pulled a 'PS2' with this thing.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
IDK, they had fire sales on the One and the One X all gen long and failed to make a dent.
They have a software issue, now a hardware one with this seemingly boat anchor.
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What if I told you that it take less RAM to run a game at 1080P / 1440P than it does to run the game at 4K? And that these so called Xbox One X enhanced games are still Xbox One games with edited code & sometimes higher quality texture packs.
With that said I'm pretty sure Series S will play the same versions of the games as Series X just at different settings.
With that said I'm pretty sure Series S will play the same versions of the games as Series X just at different settings.
Maxwell Jacob Friedman
leads to fear. Fear leads to xbox.
fucking hell you killed me
Maxwell Jacob Friedman
leads to fear. Fear leads to xbox.
X GON GIVE IT TO YEA
Zok310
Banned
MS should have just went with a $399 SX and called it a day.
So now current 1X owners have to pay $499 again to fully benefit from current 1X upgrades with next gen XB.... So every 3 years the XB comunity have to give up $499? Ouch!
So they either downgrade to take advantage of $299 or they spend another $499 in under 4 years to get full benefits.
sounds like a horrible console ecosystem to invest in.
So now current 1X owners have to pay $499 again to fully benefit from current 1X upgrades with next gen XB.... So every 3 years the XB comunity have to give up $499? Ouch!
So they either downgrade to take advantage of $299 or they spend another $499 in under 4 years to get full benefits.
sounds like a horrible console ecosystem to invest in.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
Its in there. Not confirmed, but its a possibility.
Agnostic2020
Member
Ram is a major issue in xss .
X1x eats xsx in ram department in both speed and size
X1x eats xsx in ram department in both speed and size
RoboFu
One of the green rats
There are a lot more optimizations built into the DX apis. Supposedly xbox one games are still running natively. The below states how less ram could be used.
But again this is all just theories but this thread is just based on theories as well.
www.eurogamer.net
"
Asset streaming is taken to the next level, but Microsoft wasn't finished there. Last-gen, we enjoyed a 16x increase in system memory, but this time it's a mere 2x - or just 50 per cent extra if we consider Xbox One X as the baseline. In addition to drawing more heavily upon storage to make up the shortfall, Microsoft began a process of optimising how memory is actually used, with some startling improvements.
"We observed that typically, only a small percentage of memory loaded by games was ever accessed," reveals Goossen. "This wastage comes principally from the textures. Textures are universally the biggest consumers of memory for games. However, only a fraction of the memory for each texture is typically accessed by the GPU during the scene. For example, the largest mip of a 4K texture is eight megabytes and often more, but typically only a small portion of that mip is visible in the scene and so only that small portion really needs to be read by the GPU."
As textures have ballooned in size to match 4K displays, efficiency in memory utilisation has got progressively worse - something Microsoft was able to confirm by building in special monitoring hardware into Xbox One X's Scorpio Engine SoC. "From this, we found a game typically accessed at best only one-half to one-third of their allocated pages over long windows of time," says Goossen. "So if a game never had to load pages that are ultimately never actually used, that means a 2-3x multiplier on the effective amount of physical memory, and a 2-3x multiplier on our effective IO performance."
A technique called Sampler Feedback Streaming - SFS - was built to more closely marry the memory demands of the GPU, intelligently loading in the texture mip data that's actually required with the guarantee of a lower quality mip available if the higher quality version isn't readily available, stopping GPU stalls and frame-time spikes. Bespoke hardware within the GPU is available to smooth the transition between mips, on the off-chance that the higher quality texture arrives a frame or two later. Microsoft considers these aspects of the Velocity Architecture to be a genuine game-changer, adding a multiplier to how physical memory is utilised.
"
But again this is all just theories but this thread is just based on theories as well.
Inside Xbox Series X: the full specs
This is it. After months of teaser trailers, blog posts and even the occasional leak, we can finally reveal firm, hard …
www.eurogamer.net
"
Asset streaming is taken to the next level, but Microsoft wasn't finished there. Last-gen, we enjoyed a 16x increase in system memory, but this time it's a mere 2x - or just 50 per cent extra if we consider Xbox One X as the baseline. In addition to drawing more heavily upon storage to make up the shortfall, Microsoft began a process of optimising how memory is actually used, with some startling improvements.
"We observed that typically, only a small percentage of memory loaded by games was ever accessed," reveals Goossen. "This wastage comes principally from the textures. Textures are universally the biggest consumers of memory for games. However, only a fraction of the memory for each texture is typically accessed by the GPU during the scene. For example, the largest mip of a 4K texture is eight megabytes and often more, but typically only a small portion of that mip is visible in the scene and so only that small portion really needs to be read by the GPU."
As textures have ballooned in size to match 4K displays, efficiency in memory utilisation has got progressively worse - something Microsoft was able to confirm by building in special monitoring hardware into Xbox One X's Scorpio Engine SoC. "From this, we found a game typically accessed at best only one-half to one-third of their allocated pages over long windows of time," says Goossen. "So if a game never had to load pages that are ultimately never actually used, that means a 2-3x multiplier on the effective amount of physical memory, and a 2-3x multiplier on our effective IO performance."
A technique called Sampler Feedback Streaming - SFS - was built to more closely marry the memory demands of the GPU, intelligently loading in the texture mip data that's actually required with the guarantee of a lower quality mip available if the higher quality version isn't readily available, stopping GPU stalls and frame-time spikes. Bespoke hardware within the GPU is available to smooth the transition between mips, on the off-chance that the higher quality texture arrives a frame or two later. Microsoft considers these aspects of the Velocity Architecture to be a genuine game-changer, adding a multiplier to how physical memory is utilised.
"
BluRayHiDef
Banned
Alright, thanks for the clarification. I guess this isn't a problem, however, since the Xbox Series S is meant to replace the Xbox One S and the Xbox Series X is meant to replace the Xbox One X.
Would you say that it's sort of like how a 3070 is meant to replace a 2070? The 3070 is more powrful but seems to be intended for gaming at the same resolutions (1080p and 1440p), which seems to be evident based on its 8GB of VRAM, which will be insufficient for games at 4K going forward.
Makes sense. It is a budget console, with less memory.
I guess MS can do it for xb360 games, but for xb1 games, developers must write extra patches, so this won't happen.
Maybe extra AF like it was done on xbox one x and maybe MS finds a way to force some sort of AA or something like this, but that's it. It is a low budget console, don't expect premium patches for it.
I guess MS can do it for xb360 games, but for xb1 games, developers must write extra patches, so this won't happen.
Maybe extra AF like it was done on xbox one x and maybe MS finds a way to force some sort of AA or something like this, but that's it. It is a low budget console, don't expect premium patches for it.
That 2GB part should be pure OS-Part. Developers don't need to worry about that.
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Doczu
Member
It's more modern with features absent in the One X but with less raw power. Think of it like you jump from a mid/high gpu to a newer one, but in the mid/low range.
You get the upgrades from the new generation, but your old card is faster anyways
Bernd Lauert
Banned
It will run it, but at 1440p. I don't know what the big deal is.
recursive
Member
Wouldn't you want the bells and whistles from last gen?
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
This is about backwards compat; games expecting Xbox One X levels of RAM aren't going to work on XSS.
Lone Wolf
Member
Most people will be coming from the One S. It will be a substantial upgrade.
supernova8
Banned
I have no interest in Xbox really but sounds like bollocks that XSS wouldn't run X1X enhanced stuff. Just because there's 2GB less RAM means games designed around an old shitty laptop CPU won't run on XSS?
It doesn't make sense. Again I'm likely buying a PS5 over Xbox but come on this is nonsensical hyperbole unless we get some receipts.
It doesn't make sense. Again I'm likely buying a PS5 over Xbox but come on this is nonsensical hyperbole unless we get some receipts.
ultrazilla
Gold Member
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
I see that DF do not realise that MEMORY POOL IS ALSO VRAM.
I don't deny shortcomings of XSS, tho. But the argument that for 4k you need same memory as for 1440p/1080p is just false.
www.tweaktown.com
DF PLS
I don't deny shortcomings of XSS, tho. But the argument that for 4k you need same memory as for 1440p/1080p is just false.
How much VRAM do you really need at 1080p, 1440p and 4K?
We test out our usual suite of benchmarks to see how much VRAM you really need.
www.tweaktown.com
DF PLS
RoboFu
One of the green rats
not really if they are running natively. all those things could work automatically. MS have already explained that they are already doing enhancmnets for xbox one games at the api level.
Now if they are running on some VM type of abtraction layer then you would be correct.
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Bogroll
Likes moldy games
At least they will work, i'd love for PS5 to be able to play PS3 games at their shitty original PS3 frame rates never mind improved one's
Trogdor1123
Member
That seems fine to me, I'm good with this generations graphics. Just need faster loading and better fps.
BlackProdigy
Member
You Sony fanboys making series S threads every hour. Are you not tired?
Zok310
Banned
Im arguing for a $399 X, everybody wins, so what's your problem and what did PS3 do to you dog?
Endless Fluff
Banned
Lots of people ITT think that only means lower res, but some enhanced games aren't just running at higher resolutions.
Shadow of War can use 4K textures because of the increased amount of RAM on X, this is most likely not going to be the case if you run the game on Series S. Which is a shame if this turns out to be the case, on the other hand there are only very few games that have big upgrades over the normal version.
Borderlands 3 (or any other game with performance modes that sucked on current gen) should run at a locked 1080p/60 on Series S and that is upgrade enough over current gen.
Shadow of War can use 4K textures because of the increased amount of RAM on X, this is most likely not going to be the case if you run the game on Series S. Which is a shame if this turns out to be the case, on the other hand there are only very few games that have big upgrades over the normal version.
Borderlands 3 (or any other game with performance modes that sucked on current gen) should run at a locked 1080p/60 on Series S and that is upgrade enough over current gen.
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YeulEmeralda
Member
$299 console doesn't set the world on fire. Makes sense to me.
The last time anyone took a big loss on their system was Sony with the PS3 and that wasn't a huge success.
The last time anyone took a big loss on their system was Sony with the PS3 and that wasn't a huge success.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
"4k console" label is not important. The S is for next gen, meaning all the enhanced graphics techniques, higher res models, textures, etc. Compare 360 games to Xbox One games (Gears 3 to Gears 4) to remind yourself of what a generation leap looks like. The S is not supposed to be a XB1 X replacement for this gen.
Bogroll
Likes moldy games
It takes up to much room in the cupboard that's what it does. Wouldn't you like bc on PS5 ?
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turtlepowa
Banned
Biased DF, damn you 
loktaiextatus
Member
Power efficiency .
Power efficiency. A teraflop is literally operations per second they are like for like the efficiency is per watt and allows higher clocking etc the efficiency has nothing to do with calculations god people are thick skulled.
Flintty
Member
The main upgrades to BC have been 4K. People wanting 4K will have the XSX. I don’t see the problem here.
vdopey
Member
Never gonna happen, way too difficult to emulate the cell cpu + SPE's architecture to make the games work accurately or well - this is unfortunately the achilles heel of sony software development / SDK they provide near/actual bare metal access I am sure there are chunks of code within the ps3 engines which make very specific spe calls, which is also why I think this emulator: https://www.rpcs3.net/ is absolutely incredible - gotta hand it to PC as a platform that just does everything
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
the 20 tflops 3070 isnt supposed to be a 1080p or 1440p gpu. it is replacing the 2080 ti which was a $1,200 4k 100 fps gpu.
the 1080p stuff on PC is basically your 5500xt which is a 5.2 tflops GPU. AMD markets it as a 1080p GPU. The XSS at 4 tflops is 30% lower than what AMD recommends for 1080p gaming for current gen.
Slings and Arrows
Banned
The problem, although it's more of an inconvenience than problem, is that the X is fucking awesome, hardware wise. I would expect a decent leap from the X to the XSS and then a great leap from X to XSX. Otherwise, what's the point?
No wonder MS discontinued the X...
Hawking Radiation
Member
Jon Neu
Banned
How is the Series S not able to run the enhanced Series X settings hindering next gen?
If half baked versions means Gears 5 at 120fps, then god bless those half baked versions.
Zok310
Banned
Sure, but not at $1000 in 3 years, thats just dumb.
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GHG
Member
diffusionx
Gold Member
I think MS has to keep their messaging clear but I still think what they are doing is fine. The Series S is not meant to replace the One X. Usually One X resolution is higher than 1440p so what's the point.
That said, the XSS can be a good upgrade for the One S. For example, RDR2 runs at only 864p on the Xbox One. I don't know what they have to do, but if they can get the game running at 1440p and a better framerate on the Series S, that is not quite XOX, but still a huge upgrade and would look fantastic on a 1080p screen - even a normie gamer would notice it immediately.
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