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DFC to Sony: REPENT or DIE

A

artist

Banned
Are there any worldwide graphs?

Also does this report also has the weird logic where the best case scenario percentages dont add up to 100%.
 
M

Mrbob

Member
Do these guys ever get anything right?

Anyway, funny to see they wastd 600 pages on this report, when you can throw it all away based on their japan analysis.
 
N

Nozi

Banned
omg rite said:
i dont think so personally, but honest question: does ANYONE here think MS can turn 360 around in Japan?
Click to expand...

Most of the '360 sellers' - RPGs and other Japan-centric titles haven't hit the shelves yet. The Japanese public according to polls are not overwhelmingly interested in the ps3 due to its price and other factors. This leaves the 360 in a more favorable position, not a great position, but definitely a better position. No-one expects it to win over there, but it could definitely do better over the next 12 months than people expect.
 
C

Cheebs

Member
Nozi said:
Most of the '360 sellers' - RPGs and other Japan-centric titles haven't hit the shelves yet. The Japanese public according to polls are not overwhelmingly interested in the ps3 due to its price and other factors. This leaves the 360 in a more favorable position, not a great position, but definitely a better position. No-one expects it to win over there, but it could definitely do better over the next 12 months than people expect.
Click to expand...

No, ps3's hatred in Japan sadly does not help 360(I would love to see Blue Dragon do well there). As kobunheat has said as have others Japan is a nation of one console ownership. One does well and everything else bombs. You wont be seeing both Wii and 360 get boosts if PS3 falls. Only one will.
 
D

DamienIsBack

Banned
Nozi said:
Most of the '360 sellers' - RPGs and other Japan-centric titles haven't hit the shelves yet. The Japanese public according to polls are not overwhelmingly interested in the ps3 due to its price and other factors. This leaves the 360 in a more favorable position, not a great position, but definitely a better position. No-one expects it to win over there, but it could definitely do better over the next 12 months than people expect.
Click to expand...

o_O

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/07/18/poll-ps3-more-desirous-than-wii-in-japan/

wii-ps3-chart.gif
 
J

J-Rzez

Member
So this is true that EU is gonna get the PS3 around what the PS2 fetched at it's launch? That's a damned good deal with inflation and such and much more of a machine you're getting this time... Guess the US is really getting the worst... it's like the gas-front here... EU and the rest of the world been getting hammered for gas prices for years, we here in the states laughed, we get a dollar/gal raise in prices, we scream bloody murder, which it's still cheaper than most of the world...

I still don't understand why ppl just dismiss the $499 PS3... it's not like the 360 dual-sku package where something that's a lil more detrimental for gaming like a HDD is thrown about from one to the other... I had to buy the Premium cause I felt the HDD is a necessity and if bought seperately, you got raped and didn't get the other stuff... plus, you got the wired controllers... not including having to pick up the quickcharger stuff and wireless controllers... With the PS3's "core" pack, you get the 360's primo pack, with Blu-Ray stuffed in... I still believe that a lot of ppl, not thinking Blu-Ray is all that, will indeed like it once they own it and then think it was a justifiable purchase then... That's just my take... Kinda like what happened with the PS2's DVD feature... nobody really wanted that, but a lot liked it, and did impact gaming......

So we're looking at a $200 increase this time over the last gen's launch in the states... yeah, it's inflation inspired, and some other tech "forced" onto us, but eh... cost of living is going up everywhere, and it's noticeable... Minimum wage just got signed to go up a full $2/hr here by July 2007 in my state...

Guess like gas here in the states... we had it good too long compared to the rest of the world, and now we're getting a "sticker" shock effect with the way price rising is affecting us...

I don't believe it's going to be "as" live or die as the weathermen (wrong 95% of the time and still maintain a job) of the business world are forecasting it to be...
 
O

Odysseus

Banned
Dragona Akehi said:
Hint: SDF tags are not something to covet.
Click to expand...

Sure, that's a life lesson for all of us. But dude was on record, he really wanted one. Somewhere it will happen for him.

Edit: On topic (fancy that), I'm not ready to tell the emperor that he has no clothes. Sony, despite the enormous price tag, is going to have to fail before I believe they will. Their chief competitor is also overpriced and doesn't have nearly the same loyal following of Sony. Nintendo, they are on equal footing with Sony in this regard: I won't believe their fortunes will change until they have, in fact, changed. DS is no indicator at all for me--they have always had a successful handheld business and the DS is no different.
 
C

Count Chocula

Banned
For a consumer there are all types of choices for playing games: portable games, online games, old console systems, new console systems and so on. The console system remains the largest segment of the overall market, but its importance is clearly declining
Click to expand...

This is one area I happen to agree with. Consoles becoming less important. Maybe it's just me, but I'm losing interest in buying a new system for gaming. I find Sony and Nintendo's approach the most appealing. With Sony I'm getting a $500 HD movie player which also plays the latest games. With Nintendo I'm getting some entirely new functionality.

Actually I dont think anythings wrong with their analysis of market share. My only question is whether or not it even matters who comes in "first" in each territory.
I'd say it matters the most for Nintendo since they are the odd man out when it comes to ability to run the latest software.

hadareud said:
batman ends
Click to expand...

Im sorry you were saying?
 
C

Cheerilee

Member
Count Chocula said:
This is one area I happen to agree with. Consoles becoming less important. Maybe it's just me, but I'm losing interest in buying a new system for gaming. I find Sony and Nintendo's approach the most appealing. With Sony I'm getting a $500 HD movie player which also plays the latest games. With Nintendo I'm getting some entirely new functionality.
Click to expand...
Don't you mean either...
With Sony I'm getting a $600 HD movie player which also plays the latest games.
Click to expand...
or...
With Sony I'm getting a $500 console which plays the latest games.
Click to expand...
 
C

Cheerilee

Member
Count Chocula said:
i'm pretty sure $600 one is only needed for Blu Ray @ 1080p
Click to expand...
Yeah, you're right. I thought I had heard that HDMI was required for HD movies (not neccasarily games though), but apparently it's only required for 1080p. 720p and 1080i should still come through on the base model.
 
S

sonycowboy

Member
ruby_onix said:
Yeah, you're right. I thought I had heard that HDMI was required for HD movies (not neccasarily games though), but apparently it's only required for 1080p. 720p and 1080i should still come through on the base model.
Click to expand...

According to Kutaragi, Harrison, & Harai, component is completely capable of carrying 1080p. And that is true. Of course, I don't know of any TV's available that accept 1080p through the component cables, but with the volume (even if you believe it will be half of PS2's) the PS3 will have, I'd expect some folks will make a set compatible.
 
B

Bearillusion

Banned
olubode said:
Excuse me?

Are you certain of that? I honestly don't know what the PS2 original price was. I'm having a huge doubt that PS3 will be priced anwhere within it's predecessor's price anytime soon.
Click to expand...

In Australia the PS2 launched at $749 with memory cards costing a further $59. The 20 gig PS3 will launch in Australia for $799 or $829 with $799 being the likely figure.
 
P

Ponn

Banned
sonycowboy said:
According to Kutaragi, Harrison, & Harai, component is completely capable of carrying 1080p. And that is true. Of course, I don't know of any TV's available that accept 1080p through the component cables, but with the volume (even if you believe it will be half of PS2's) the PS3 will have, I'd expect some folks will make a set compatible.
Click to expand...

I'm still baffled by the amount of people that are rushing to plop down the $600 without looking at the $500. The $600 model is really a technophile's version but the average gamer should really be looking at the $500 version.
 
G

Grampa Simpson

Banned
Bearillusion said:
In Australia the PS2 launched at $749 with memory cards costing a further $59. The 20 gig PS3 will launch in Australia for $799 or $829 with $799 being the likely figure.
Click to expand...
How does that translate to US$?
 
K

KINGMOKU

Member
sp0rsk said:
i think the analysis is pretty good. you people dont know how to read.
Click to expand...
Oh c'mon now. GAF peeps know TONS more then people with actuall jobs.


Just like everyone knew that the DS....

Oh forget it.
 
S

sonycowboy

Member
It would be interesting to see best and worst case for each region and worldwide:

Worst case for PS3 in US & Japan
Worst case for 360 in US & Europe (we know worst case for Japan)
Worst case for Wii in US & Japan

Best Case for PS3 in US?
Best Case for 360 in Europe?
Best Case for Wii in US & Japan?

It would make for some fun conversation.

I get the idea that DFC is putting Sony's best case at 1/2 of the PS2, or probably around 55-60M units worldwide based on what we see for what they said for Europe.

Anybody wanta pop for the $2,500?
 
S

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
sonycowboy said:
It would be interesting to see best and worst case for each region and worldwide:

Worst case for PS3 in US & Japan
Worst case for 360 in US & Europe (we know worst case for Japan)
Worst case for Wii in US & Japan

Best Case for PS3 in US?
Best Case for 360 in Europe?
Best Case for Wii in US & Japan?

It would make for some fun conversation.

I get the idea that DFC is putting Sony's best case at 1/2 of the PS2, or probably around 55-60M units worldwide based on what we see for what they said for Europe.

Anybody wanta pop for the $2,500?
Click to expand...


ill pass haha

best case for 360 in japan stems from blue dragon i assume.

worst case ps3 would be 600 is way too expensive, or they miss launch.
 
O

Odysseus

Banned
sonycowboy said:
Anybody wanta pop for the $2,500?
Click to expand...

Yeah, gaffers. Instead of buying those 50 games this fall that you'll never get around to playing and then making that "woe is me, look at my backlog" thread next year, just spring for this report. Do it.
 
C

Cheerilee

Member
sonycowboy said:
According to Kutaragi, Harrison, & Harai, component is completely capable of carrying 1080p. And that is true. Of course, I don't know of any TV's available that accept 1080p through the component cables, but with the volume (even if you believe it will be half of PS2's) the PS3 will have, I'd expect some folks will make a set compatible.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's what messed me up. I had heard that HD was relatively doable, but that the people in charge decided to restrict it to HDMI for piracy concerns. I thought they restricted the entire range, not just 1080p.

I thought that the $500 PS3 would be able to deliver HD videogames (assuming the TVs didn't reject any HD content that didn't come from an HDMI cable), but not HD movies.
 
G

Ghengis Cohen

Banned
I suppose it really doesn't matter at this point since consoles hinge on games to sell them and not price points so speculation at this point is just that. Some console will have a game that makes the generation, while the others won't, and that will ultimately make the difference. Also as a an aside analysts as a whole are dumb****s.
 
K

koam

Member
DFC = Doomed fighting control?

I found it pretty ironic that the report was 600 pages and, despite their graphs being pretty off, what they wrote makes perfect sense. $600 price tag is an insult to gamers.
 
G

Grampa Simpson

Banned
ruby_onix said:
Yeah, that's what messed me up. I had heard that HD was relatively doable, but that the people in charge decided to restrict it to HDMI for piracy concerns. I thought they restricted the entire range, not just 1080p.

I thought that the $500 PS3 would be able to deliver HD videogames (assuming the TVs didn't reject any HD content that didn't come from an HDMI cable), but not HD movies.
Click to expand...
HDTV is a fubared standard anyway. 2 HD resolutions with tons of variations in frame rate and internlacing, plus four non-hd resolutions for NON-HD content.

I'm all good with having backwords compatibility with old resolutions, but two new ones where half your HD content won't match your TV. Give me a f'n break.

Add on top of that the problem lag and fade in new display technologies like LCD, Plasma, and DLP, run on top of the possible lag that stems from the D<HDMI, and you've got a real nightmare for gaming.

I've been lurking craigslist, and I'm going to pick up a big CRT based Projection TV that does 480p and be happy with my Wii until next gen when the content providers will hopefully have settled on a single resolution and the TV manufacturers have figured out how to do HDMI --> DLP with no discernable lag compared to a signal driven CRT.
 
C

Count Chocula

Banned
koam said:
I found it pretty ironic that the report was 600 pages and, despite their graphs being pretty off, what they wrote makes perfect sense. $600 price tag is an insult to gamers.
Click to expand...

I get the impression that Sony's banking on the fact that even $400 is an insult to most gamers. So why not target the HT audience at first? The die hard gamers who pay $400+ for a console will be lining up regardless.
 
I

IAmNude

Banned
sonycowboy said:
It would be interesting to see best and worst case for each region and worldwide:

Worst case for PS3 in US & Japan
Worst case for 360 in US & Europe (we know worst case for Japan)
Worst case for Wii in US & Japan

Best Case for PS3 in US?
Best Case for 360 in Europe?
Best Case for Wii in US & Japan?

It would make for some fun conversation.

I get the idea that DFC is putting Sony's best case at 1/2 of the PS2, or probably around 55-60M units worldwide based on what we see for what they said for Europe.

Anybody wanta pop for the $2,500?
Click to expand...


Yeah that'd be cool but it'd take too much time
 
C

Count Chocula

Banned
By the way, their analysis uses the same conventional logic would have projected that the 360 should be a smash hit in Japan by now.

Japan works differently since tradition tends to get in the way of conventional logic.

I fully expect end result to look more like the chart that dude just got banned for.
 
J

Jokeropia

Member
Il Comodino said:
Ps3 is at the same price of Ps2 at launch in europe
Click to expand...
Not really. PS2 launch price in Europe was €430, PS3 will cost €599. (Afaik no €499 version will be available at release here.)
 
G

Grampa Simpson

Banned
Count Chocula said:
By the way, their analysis uses the same conventional logic would have projected that the 360 should be a smash hit in Japan by now.

Japan works differently since tradition tends to get in the way of conventional logic.

I fully expect end result to look more like the chart that dude just got banned for.
Click to expand...
You're deluding yourself then. If and only if Sony can move as much product to market as Nintendo, they'll be neck and nect for the first six months. After that I expect that one or more of nintendo's launch window titles will hit killer app status, and really drive the Wii forward into the mainstream. Of course it could go the other way around and the PS3 could have the killer app. The question is, if your console costs 2-3x as much, does your killer app have to be 2-3x as killer?
 
S

Square2005

Banned
sonycowboy said:
It would be interesting to see best and worst case for each region and worldwide:

Worst case for PS3 in US & Japan
Worst case for 360 in US & Europe (we know worst case for Japan)
Worst case for Wii in US & Japan

Best Case for PS3 in US?
Best Case for 360 in Europe?
Best Case for Wii in US & Japan?

It would make for some fun conversation.

I get the idea that DFC is putting Sony's best case at 1/2 of the PS2, or probably around 55-60M units worldwide based on what we see for what they said for Europe.

Anybody wanta pop for the $2,500?
Click to expand...

If any Gaffer here is willing to pay $2,500 for a report why not buy a DFC historical sales report like this:

The table of contents> http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:AeT64mM4PpYJ:report.etnews.co.kr/php/worldview.html%3Fid%3D596+U.S.+Market+for+Video+Games+%26+Interactive+Electronic+Entertainment,+The+Mindbranch+report&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=5

It has U.S. NPD sales numbers (HW, SW, Handheld, PC) between 1986-2001 for everything! Plus much much more.
800 pages & 350+ charts
$2,995 (PDF form)
 
G

Grampa Simpson

Banned
Square2005 said:
If any Gaffer here is willing to pay $2,500 for a report why not buy a DFC historical sales report like this:

The table of contents> http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:AeT64mM4PpYJ:report.etnews.co.kr/php/worldview.html%3Fid%3D596+U.S.+Market+for+Video+Games+%26+Interactive+Electronic+Entertainment,+The+Mindbranch+report&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=5

It has U.S. NPD sales numbers (HW, SW, Handheld, PC) between 1986-2001 for everything! Plus much much more.
800 pages & 350+ charts
$2,995 (PDF form)
Click to expand...
Do you think we can get 300 gaffers to donate $10 each?
 
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