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Digital Foundry claims PS5 doesn't exhibit any evidence of VRS(Variable Rate Shading) from PS5 showcase.
- Thread starter semicool
- Start date
Razvedka
Banned
I will use your message to respond in general, but do not take it as a totally direct response to you. Part is for you, and part is not. I hope you know how to identify yourself properly with each part. The rest ignore it.
You question everything. And if I defend some values it is for justice, not partisanship, I am a fair person and I like to offer the truth, whether it is beneficial or not. All the information I have given is in the public domain, it is online and you can verify it by other professionals. But to get a realistic idea you must read the entire set of information. Not just the part that people are interested in. I cannot give any non-public information. I am not a journalist.
I have been vetted since I arrived. It appears reflected in my user. Not only here but also in Resetara. I shouldn't be wasting time justifying myself more. Still I do it, out of respect and education. But within limits, not of quantity but of repetition. I can't be constantly repeating the same thing with everyone every time.
For me the forum is not my life. It is a distraction, a place where you can share fun and enjoyable moments with other users, and a place where you can ignore the rest who try to create conflict. I come here in good faith. But honestly, I'm already getting tired. I am not used to your daily battles.
What is the use of me saying that I am impartial and that I like "the games" if you don't believe it either? So why do you want to know? I have access to 8 or 9 VR devices of different brands (including HoloLens), and it is not my fault that one of them is from Sony, the rest are from PC or autonomous, in the same way it is not my fault that Microsoft has decided to change its policy regarding these devices. Does that make me "partial"? Really?
I understand and am fully aware that I expose myself to this type of attitude. It is a forum, and there is a wide variety of people, of all races, beliefs, tastes, etc ... It is impossible to adequately coincide with so much variety. But you have to differentiate between those mature and those who are not. If all you really want to know is that you have invested your money well, don't count on me. Those types of people only have one interest, all they want is to "win". And with this attitude all they do is "lose". Miss opportunities and lose consciousness. I will never understand that an AstonMartin user argues with a Lambroghiny user. I hope they give me one (Bo_Hazem , just kidding, I don't really need to, I couldn't afford the gas).
If people question everything that you do not like to hear, it is not surprising that other colleagues do not appear around here. They already warned me, and maybe my mistake was not having listened to them. Luckily it is a mistake that I can correct at any time. I take the duffel and leave and everyone is so happy. What I'm not going to do is waste more time. So this is my last message about it. Those who are interested in continuing to stay informed with the information they can give already know where to find me and where I always respond (by PM). For the rest (publicly) I will only limit myself to commenting on what I think is convenient but without answering anything. Or maybe I just use "likes" to express a thought. I will no longer enter an infinite cycle of discussion with anyone. Apart from the fact that I can't, I don't want to spend more time on it, my time is finite and it also has a price.
When I saw Tim Sweeney being debated on Twitter, I couldn't believe it. In the end it ended as it should have, with an apology. At that moment I started to see (perhaps late) when a user pretends to "know" or exchange opinions and when a user only tries to annoy or try to drag you into an absurd and childish war over his personal interests. The sad thing is that many of these people are already advanced in years.
Regarding 22GB/s, and in general "the numbers", what I wanted to say is that if you want to make comparisons you must do them on valid equivalences. Because it is absurd, as I have often read here comparisons of the CPU based only on its GHz, indistinctly from the rest. And no, if you want to make a comparison, you have to take into account the GHz in the same conditions, that is, with the SMT, because comparing the GHz one with SMT and the other without ... it is absurd. And then you have to analyze well how much available power each CPU has left to do its job, since there are many customizations on both sides. The same thing happens with 22GB/s (I also gave an example with 9GB (but since I have not put it numerically it must have been overlooked). And if you do not want to use that example we can make another one that perhaps you do not understand better, the Customizations make the 4.8 on the PS5 more efficient than the 4.8 on the XSX. Another thing is that you do not like to read this. Likewise, in order for your discussions to be more realistic, there should be more public details for some to fully understand it and I hope it doesn't take long to do a total gutting of the console. And I refuse to believe that the problem is because of the language, I do not think that my translations are so bad that everyone can understand, in a bad translation, what I really could have meant.
Still, there will always be some Linus Tech.
As a final note, I do not want this message to offend all those who have supported me publicly or in the shade all this time, both with their words and with their silence. I hope I have been helpful all this time and I thank you for your courtesy and proximity. I have felt very comfortable among you and I value it (and I still feel), I have nothing to reproach you. A hug to all.
And now is when I invoke @Mod of War in case you want to clarify something to me or to any other user privately or publicly, as he or the Staff deems appropriate.
Sorry, too late. But is the last time.
I really hope these guys haven't driven you from gaf. Your posts are awesome, and your patience is incredible.
Still, I guess we all have our limits., Thank you for further clarifying, my question was genuine and rooted in curiosity.
The Hamburglar
Banned
you think all that partnering, invites etc doesn’t come with Bias? Please
JimboJones
Member
They literally just did a video saying how good PS4 checkerboard rendering was and it was by Alex"the Xbot" too.
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
Isn't DF chosen to do a breakdown of the PS5 soon? Oh no all that partnering and invites...
Andodalf
Banned
You’re right, I can never trust them after They got invited to come and check out the tech at guerrilla. Shameful, clear Sony and Guerrilla bias from then on.
Dory16
Banned
In that case you are disagree with the ex Sony employee that you quoted yourself. May be make that clear in your post.
As for having prioritised graphical fidelity, they're giving us 4k which was always the target. It's not like they went beyond everyone's expectations and targeted native 8k.
I personally see the whole thing as a clear instance of moving the goal post behind a smoke screen. We had a Crytek developer not long ago who explained to us to that fewer CUs in a console was a very good thing because it's more likely that you will keep them fully utilized and everybody bought it. That the PS5 was the most optimised console ever designed. That it was pretty much bottleneck free and therefore could easily take on the XSX with its larger GPU.
Now that Digital Foundry has started counting the games that reach 60 fps I'm seeing all sorts of new design goals and late call decisions brought up as excuses.
First party games should reach 4k60 fps. At least a few of them should reach dynamic 4k60. Xbox had several of those THIS gen and Tim Sweeny has been comparing the PS5 to high end PCs. If it required such gimping tradeoffs, then he should have said it because high end PCs give you 4k60 in most games. Dont get me wrong, I knew Tim was filling his pockets with his mouth all along.
Journey
Banned
So let me get this straight, the times DF was biased was when 360 was beating PS3 in multi platform comparisons, and again when Xbox One X was beating PS4 Pro in multi platform comparisons.
IT ALL MAKES SENSE!
martino
Member
it's the tools or the data that are biased. probably provided by MS !So let me get this straight, the times DF was biased was when 360 was beating PS3 in multi platform comparisons, and again when Xbox One X was beating PS4 Pro in multi platform comparisons.
IT ALL MAKES SENSE!
another sponsored nvidia video :
if you need to look somewhere it's more there.
i don't count them but nvidia sponsored content happen time to time and more than other overall
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Elog
Member
I do not understand why you think graphical fidelity is measured by the resolution of 4K? Real graphical fidelity is measured by the texture resolution and the amount of textures on the screen. That is close to totally separate from the overall 4K resolution. If you run a 4-6Gb texture budget (fairly standard on PC), 4K/60 FPS is fairly easy to achieve but the picture will still look nothing like a 1080p rendered CGI. That is because of the texture/VRAM budget.
So when you state 4K/60 FPS you are basically discounting the real improvement that the UE5 and PS5 show gave us: Amount of textures and texture resolution. And you are accepting the hard VRAM limitation that the PC architecture currently has without second thought. Do you understand what a limitation that is? And that this limitation is driven by I/O and GPU cache management to a significant degree instead of Tflops?
Now everyone and their mother can see that the texture budget is actually much more important for the experience as a viewer than 4K. That is what this discussion is really about and as a secondary topic: What can the XSX do here?
Bias? When one company has been completeLy transparent about every feature of their system while the other has only really detailed their SSD? Even when asked by multiple outlets Sony has yet to answer any hardware related question that doesn’t paint the PS5 in the best light.
I think it’s only natural to keep investigating and asking these questions until we have a definitive answer.
I think it’s only natural to keep investigating and asking these questions until we have a definitive answer.
Journey
Banned
Xbox One X is pretty sneaky hardware, that Surface team of engineers are always up to their tricks, God only knows what they cooked up with Xbox Series X, when head to heads are in favor of Series X, we'll know what's up, the rest of the sheep just aren't woke enough to see what's really happening
ethomaz
Banned
They were bias even when PS4 was beating XB1... it was very clear.So let me get this straight, the times DF was biased was when 360 was beating PS3 in multi platform comparisons, and again when Xbox One X was beating PS4 Pro in multi platform comparisons.
IT ALL MAKES SENSE!
Trying to attach their bias only to some events is really weird.
No matter who is winning or have the better hardware they are biased toward Xbox (Richard and Alex... Dark apparently not... just reading the articles you know who write it).
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martino
Member
Bo_Hazem
Banned
I will use your message to respond in general, but do not take it as a totally direct response to you. Part is for you, and part is not. I hope you know how to identify yourself properly with each part. The rest ignore it.
You question everything. And if I defend some values it is for justice, not partisanship, I am a fair person and I like to offer the truth, whether it is beneficial or not. All the information I have given is in the public domain, it is online and you can verify it by other professionals. But to get a realistic idea you must read the entire set of information. Not just the part that people are interested in. I cannot give any non-public information. I am not a journalist.
I have been vetted since I arrived. It appears reflected in my user. Not only here but also in Resetara. I shouldn't be wasting time justifying myself more. Still I do it, out of respect and education. But within limits, not of quantity but of repetition. I can't be constantly repeating the same thing with everyone every time.
For me the forum is not my life. It is a distraction, a place where you can share fun and enjoyable moments with other users, and a place where you can ignore the rest who try to create conflict. I come here in good faith. But honestly, I'm already getting tired. I am not used to your daily battles.
What is the use of me saying that I am impartial and that I like "the games" if you don't believe it either? So why do you want to know? I have access to 8 or 9 VR devices of different brands (including HoloLens), and it is not my fault that one of them is from Sony, the rest are from PC or autonomous, in the same way it is not my fault that Microsoft has decided to change its policy regarding these devices. Does that make me "partial"? Really?
I understand and am fully aware that I expose myself to this type of attitude. It is a forum, and there is a wide variety of people, of all races, beliefs, tastes, etc ... It is impossible to adequately coincide with so much variety. But you have to differentiate between those mature and those who are not. If all you really want to know is that you have invested your money well, don't count on me. Those types of people only have one interest, all they want is to "win". And with this attitude all they do is "lose". Miss opportunities and lose consciousness. I will never understand that an AstonMartin user argues with a Lambroghiny user. I hope they give me one (
If people question everything that you do not like to hear, it is not surprising that other colleagues do not appear around here. They already warned me, and maybe my mistake was not having listened to them. Luckily it is a mistake that I can correct at any time. I take the duffel and leave and everyone is so happy. What I'm not going to do is waste more time. So this is my last message about it. Those who are interested in continuing to stay informed with the information they can give already know where to find me and where I always respond (by PM). For the rest (publicly) I will only limit myself to commenting on what I think is convenient but without answering anything. Or maybe I just use "likes" to express a thought. I will no longer enter an infinite cycle of discussion with anyone. Apart from the fact that I can't, I don't want to spend more time on it, my time is finite and it also has a price.
When I saw Tim Sweeney being debated on Twitter, I couldn't believe it. In the end it ended as it should have, with an apology. At that moment I started to see (perhaps late) when a user pretends to "know" or exchange opinions and when a user only tries to annoy or try to drag you into an absurd and childish war over his personal interests. The sad thing is that many of these people are already advanced in years.
Regarding 22GB/s, and in general "the numbers", what I wanted to say is that if you want to make comparisons you must do them on valid equivalences. Because it is absurd, as I have often read here comparisons of the CPU based only on its GHz, indistinctly from the rest. And no, if you want to make a comparison, you have to take into account the GHz in the same conditions, that is, with the SMT, because comparing the GHz one with SMT and the other without ... it is absurd. And then you have to analyze well how much available power each CPU has left to do its job, since there are many customizations on both sides. The same thing happens with 22GB/s (I also gave an example with 9GB (but since I have not put it numerically it must have been overlooked). And if you do not want to use that example we can make another one that perhaps you do not understand better, the Customizations make the 4.8 on the PS5 more efficient than the 4.8 on the XSX. Another thing is that you do not like to read this. Likewise, in order for your discussions to be more realistic, there should be more public details for some to fully understand it and I hope it doesn't take long to do a total gutting of the console. And I refuse to believe that the problem is because of the language, I do not think that my translations are so bad that everyone can understand, in a bad translation, what I really could have meant.
Still, there will always be some Linus Tech.
As a final note, I do not want this message to offend all those who have supported me publicly or in the shade all this time, both with their words and with their silence. I hope I have been helpful all this time and I thank you for your courtesy and proximity. I have felt very comfortable among you and I value it (and I still feel), I have nothing to reproach you. A hug to all.
And now is when I invoke @Mod of War in case you want to clarify something to me or to any other user privately or publicly, as he or the Staff deems appropriate.
Sorry, too late. But is the last time.
Dear brother, problem is, you're an honest guy and love to help with information. You just missed that the main purpose of this thread is spreading FUD after the shockingly impressive and unprecedented graphics PS5 has showcased. Previously, at least one guy here was directly insulting me, it's a circus, leave this thread and let them have their imaginary win. We're only one month away from the total truth and hard comparisons between the two consoles in action, assuming they'll not use 2080Ti again as Xbox, not hollow and inflated words with nothing to back it up in the games.
Cheers and stick around where you are valued.
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EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
People listen to digital foundry and they can getting away with saying stuff like that so I hope we hear from SONY with in the next couple of days on things like VRS, SSD, Backwards compatibility, console price, release date, and OS.
Journey
Banned
Dory16
Banned
So you are advocating for a performance metric that only the dvelopment studio would know. The texture budget size. And you are creating an abstract texture resolution concept different from the resolution of the picture on screen (I suppose R&C is using 8k textures or assets). Basically you are starting from the conclusion that the PS5 architecture as modelled has to be the best choice there is and you are building the metrics that matter as well as your argument from there. Hum..
If the next-gen conversation is reduced to texture budget comparisons then yes probably Sony wins but does gaming really advance? I don't think so. I believe this is the generation where next gen consoles have a chance to start catching up with PCs in the only area where they've always trailed. Framerates. And if the performance is 30 fps, then I am less impressed by what I see on screen THIS generation. At least give me a 60 fps performance mode at lower "graphic fidelity" sorry, texture resolution.
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ethomaz
Banned
DF articles are the best receipts you can get... just read them.
Journey
Banned
Ar¢tos
Member
Next gen is gonna be so boring in terms of 3rd party comparisons that people seem to be freaking out and starting fights over everything because they know that they will have no reason to do it when the consoles are out.
At least they will be able to spend more time playing games...
At least they will be able to spend more time playing games...
There's nothing funny in my reply.
Why don't you point out the bias in the article and give us actual examples as opposed to the 'duh bias' comments? After all, this is the article you chose to prove your case.
Does resolution really matter?
This one took us by surprise. A study undertaken by US pollmeisters Nielsen revealed this week that "better resolution"…
www.eurogamer.net
So prove it.
You accuse me of 'keeping a narrative' but you have absolutely no response to my previous comment do you? Explain why the example of bias you gave is actually biased, if you can.
If you can't, maybe you should refrain from your own 'DF is biased' narrative.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Note that, RDNA v1 has primitives culling feature. https://www.amd.com/system/files/documents/rdna-whitepaper.pdf
AMD Cancels Implicit Primitive Shader Driver Support
Primitive shaders are lightweight shaders that break the separation of vertex and geometry shaders, promising a performance gain in supporting games. Initially announced during the Radeon RX Vega launch, the feature has been delayed again and again. At one of its 2018 International CES...www.techpowerup.com
The following slide is for RX Vega.
AMD has its own vision for next-generation geometry pipeline model which doesn't work with RX Vega and NVIDIA turns up with Turing's Mesh Shaders that just works.
Notice RX Vega already has multi-resolution rendering.
Despite RX Vega's extra hardware features, RX Vega is not compliant for DirectX 12 Feature Level 12_2. Hardware mistakes prove to be costly for AMD which is under Raja Koduri's administration.
MS mandated NVIDIA's Mesh Shader and VRS model on the PC industry i.e. AMD lost the standards war with AMD attempting to catch up with "RDNA 2".
RDNA 2 is AMD's "third time the charm" with the mentioned features.
Wait so, if I read this part right, are you saying that AMD have had to essentially adapt Mesh Shading and VRS to their RDNA2 range of GPUs, despite having their own implementation of those features in RX Vega, because said earlier solutions weren't deemed fitting enough (or to just put it another way, measuring up) to what Nvidia came up with in terms of a solution? And MS, working with AMD of course on a custom RDNA2 GPU for next-gen console, might've basically influenced AMD to adopt approaches closer to Nvidia's to be compliant with their own DX12_2 standards of those features for the PC (and, inevitably, MS console) space?
That's pretty interesting if true. Also would be an instance of AMD getting lucky IMHO; working with someone like MS as a hardware partner, and knowing MS works with Nvidia obviously, might be a case there of MS engineers guiding* AMD members of their console dev team to rework parts of RDNA1 to better comply with DX12 and DX12U. Makes me more curious about the GPU customizations on their end (as well as Sony's, though we already know of some of theirs like the cache scrubbers).
*I don't mean them literally giving AMD trade secrets or Nvidia Turing/Ampere blueprints. That would be illegal. But basically keeping working methodologies in mind when coming up with their own solutions to implement and help influence the architecture based on experience with Nvidia in ensuring Nvidia's hardware was compliant with DX12 and 12U features and vice-versa (as I'd expect Nvidia GPU R&D would've influenced some of MS's developments on certain aspects of DX12 and DX12U, including of course expansions on earlier feature sets).
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ethomaz
Banned
Are you real?There's nothing funny in my reply.
Why don't you point out the bias in the article and give us actual examples as opposed to the 'duh bias' comments? After all, this is the article you chose to prove your case.
Does resolution really matter?
This one took us by surprise. A study undertaken by US pollmeisters Nielsen revealed this week that "better resolution"…
So prove it.
You accuse me of 'keeping a narrative' but you have absolutely no response to my previous comment do you? Explain why the example of bias you gave is actually biased, if you can.
If you can't, maybe you should refrain from your own 'DF is biased' narrative.
The whole article is a damage control bias lol
In less than 5s I showed random proof and you keep the denial narrative.
Maybe you should go back in the past and change what happened lol
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Hang on. Is this a satire account? If so apologies, I've been taking it seriously all this time.
Bladed Thesis
Member
Hahahahaha, man you kill me with this straight man schtick.
You can't find any actual example of bias in that article can you? Claims without supporting evidence are meaningless. The article you posted as proof is anything but, in fact the article is perfectly reasonable and even-handed.
"In less than 5s I showed random proof" No. You showed a link to a Gaf thread where people, who think like you, were thinking like you. That's not proof of anything.
Show us the quotes, show us the examples, be specific. If DF is so biased you should have no problem.
Bladed Thesis
Member
Don't get swept up, this is how ethomaz is. He likes his PS and thats totally fine but he also really really wants to make sure everybody knows it.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Hang on. Is this a satire account? If so apologies, I've been taking it seriously all this time.
You and many others are in the good side, arguing and so, but some around are only good with taking it in a personal level. Anyway, enjoy the thread.
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I understand your point about personal quirks, however there are new users here everyday and I think good gaming journalism deserves at least a modest defence. Especially in the face of ill-informed attacks.
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Bladed Thesis
Member
Agreed. DF isn't as biased as ethomaz likes to think. But you need to read about 3-5 of his posts and you've read his opinion on everything.
Tomeru
Member
So just by reading standard articles, you're seeing bias
Problem, we have a Houston!
You try something else beside them ba dum tss closers.
martino
Member
you know where the problem is ? in the head of those people because they don't see problem to be solved whatever the brand and they don't really care about technology . They only see brand warring and a discussion not strengthening their "side"There's nothing funny in my reply.
Why don't you point out the bias in the article and give us actual examples as opposed to the 'duh bias' comments? After all, this is the article you chose to prove your case.
Does resolution really matter?
This one took us by surprise. A study undertaken by US pollmeisters Nielsen revealed this week that "better resolution"…
So prove it.
You accuse me of 'keeping a narrative' but you have absolutely no response to my previous comment do you? Explain why the example of bias you gave is actually biased, if you can.
If you can't, maybe you should refrain from your own 'DF is biased' narrative.
it's even more funny when later for same problem sony came with a similar conclusion and solution to what is discussed here.
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ethomaz
Banned
Well you believe what you want.
DF is full bias toward Xbox and that is shows in that own article but it is not it but all of them if you take some time to read.
This thread own article is a big example... they try to praise Sony but at the end they need to put a small piece of text about MS with some jump the conclusion without evidence lol (before you ask they never ever did that with Xbox articles).
It is the nature of Richard and Alex to do that... because they can't stop their bias.
Their bias in the past reached the peak to the point that they signed a deal with MS for exclusive Xbox reveals while Sony avoid them since them (ohhh hand they already showed they are mad about Sony choosing others media to talk about PS5).
I never said I'm not biased lol
That is unrelated and doesn't change the fact Richard and Alex are biased and they show that in their work (something I don't).
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Physiognomonics
Member
In one month if you read the description "in-engine" or "real-time" without more details, you can be pretty sure they'll use 2080ti again.
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SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
The real question is, when's the ban for disingenuous warrior bullshit gonna happen?
Absurd claim, reciepts requested, request refused, claimed doubled down on.
A vetted industry professional would be easily copping a 2 week ban for said bullshit.
DoctaThompson
Banned
You know what
SatansReverence
we had our clashes in the past, but lately I have wholeheartedly agree with you. Especially on this kinda stuff
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My honest take is that mods mostly ban Xbox fanboys more than Sony fanboys even though there's more of them and many egregious comments. Evidenced by many threads but especially the speculation thread. As well as banning way more xbox fanboys(who deserved it) than Sony fanboys( who also deserved it but weren't) although both sides are equally in err on some level...per capita(slanted towards Sony more because there are more Sony fanboys, the "percentage" is probably the same though).
I apologise to the mods if that's not true. It's just my honest opinion and perception on this site based on the bans I've seen. I've seen many outrageous and even vulgar statements go unpunished and it I perceive the mods as favoring Sony fanboys. More of them..."get away with it". I can recall 2 total Sony fanboys bans in the past 4 months, but about 12+ Xbox fanboys bans even though there's way more of them, Sony fanboys, and by extension, there's been more ban worthy comments and dialogue from that just based on sheer numbers. I'd love the actual stats just for dialogue s sake, maybe a conversation starter. My honest perception here anyways. If there's an ounce of truth to it(or not I guess), I'm sure others might have this perception too by extension.
I know this opinion is off topic except to reply to your statement, I just wouldnt start a new thread to discuss it
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CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Remember when Digital Foundry essentially predicted the PS5 being 36CUs all the way back in April 2019 and fanboys shit their diapers for a whole year saying they were crazy? You know who you are, and you're in no positition to call them out. Hahaha.
Xplainin
Banned
True. DF has gone to Sony numerous times to ask about VRS, and Sony refused to answer.
Sometimes you learn more from what people don't say, than they say.
If the PS5 has VRS, and they have been asked to clarify it by DF, and they don't, I can only guess that's because it doesnt have it.
He also said it would be 8TF, without SSD, without RT.
As far as I read, Geometry Engine > VRS.
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Fake
Member
Wait a sec, are you asking for someone to get banned? For real? Why not using the report button instead? What I find more stupid than a console warrior is someone suggesting some member to get ban. What is this, resetera?
Or perhaps put that to the ban thread.
DoctaThompson
Banned
In his defense, I haven't really ever reported people on this site. Maybe 2x at most. I'll only report extremists, on EITHER side. I feel like most people can talk it out, and come to a disagreement. Reporting is a last resort to those who are being belligerent. I won't report those who are simply trolling, but making the community a hellhole.
Fake
Member
Is not about defense of someone. Just by context, asking someone to get the same fate as a baneed member you imply you either want the person banned or the previous banned get disbanned and this put a bit of doubt in the Staff works. Nobody is forced to use the report button, but you lost the right of spin the sittuation if you not.
Bill O'Rights
already explain many times you need to use the report button or else will be pretty much ignored. Thats why is better leave all this stuff to the ban thread.
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DoctaThompson
Banned
I've gotten banned plenty of times from specificallyIs not about defense of someone. Just by context, asking someone to get the same fate as a baneed member you imply you either want the person banned or the previous banned get disbanned and this put a bit of doubt in the Staff works. Nobody is forced to use the report button, but you lost the right of spin the sittuation if you not.
Thats why is better leave all this stuff to the ban thread.
Bill O'Rights
personally for things that others have done worse than me (at least in my opinion). I can't argue that, as it's their site, and they run it as they want. I can't change what his or her mindset is (I won't misgender you, but I'm sure you are a guy). If they deem things as bannable, so be it. If I get banned for saying this, so be it. I'll always speak my mind, but I only use report button if it's beyond belligerency. That's just me though.
Andodalf
Banned
Is not about defense of someone. Just by context, asking someone to get the same fate as a baneed member you imply you either want the person banned or the previous banned get disbanned and this put a bit of doubt in the Staff works. Nobody is forced to use the report button, but you lost the right of spin the sittuation if you not.
Thats why is better leave all this stuff to the ban thread.
If it’s all about who hits the report button more, whoever has the biggest fan base will get banned less, thus gaining an even bigger amount of support on the site and dominate the report button even more. It’s a terrible stance for the site to hold
Fake
Member
Thats. Why. Ban. Thread.
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