• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Digital Foundry claims PS5 doesn't exhibit any evidence of VRS(Variable Rate Shading) from PS5 showcase.

Snake29

Snake29

RSI Employee of the Year
Hix said:
That's just speculation at this point and isn't far off "secret sauce".
Click to expand...

That's what they said you baby...

Stop the bullshit.

Hix said:
DirectX isn't related though, it's full RDNA2 hardware integration, nothing to do with software.



Aww ad hominem now?

This news sure has rattled your cage.
Click to expand...

Your trying to ignore the facts from what Cerny said...so go away with you nonsense.
 
Last edited:
KRYPT83

KRYPT83

Member
DForce said:
"It doesn't have those things"

Where did you get this information from?

Nowhere. You're assuming things and that is not facts. This is what's wrong with fanboys. They just flat out ignore facts.
Click to expand...
Because if PS5 has them Sony would ne screaming from the rooftops about it. Checkmate accept the fact Microsoft under Phil Spencer will never under deliver a weaker console period. Ps fans should be hurt Sony have wizards working at there 1st party studios and always release bangers be happy about that. PS5 is rdna1.5 that's a fact that's been known for 6 months now nothing will change that until Sony releases Ps5pro
 
geordiemp

geordiemp

Member
I will leave the sony patented VRS method here.

It can be used in both normal and VR methods hence with meshes (Sonys own method).

DtUVoNT.png
 
Last edited:
T

TaylorSwiftFan

Member
KRYPT83 said:
Rdna 1.5 period xbox dev kits was late because they was waiting on the full feat set of rdna 2. The playstation cut out what they didn't want is pure bullshit.
Click to expand...
You’re quoting a misleading post. The same source said that the PS5 GPU cannot be classified as RDNA 1, 2, 3 or 4.
 
tryDEATH

tryDEATH

Member
Sony simply didn't wait or didn't have a large enough budget to go for the full RDNA2 suit, its as simple as that.

People trying to label RDNA2 suit as generic and big up Sony's custom parts some which aren't even one-for-one with what RDNA2 has are at this point only triggered fanboys that had been spreading FUD on here for ages while playing tech analysts with inside information that was imaginary.

Those custom parts from Sony simply aren't going to be able to perform at the level of the integrated features of RDNA2, expect a lot of games on PS5 to perform worse than just the raw performance numbers that we have between these systems.

PS5 is going to be a decent amount weaker product this generation until we get a refresh. You best come to terms with that, there isn't a secret sauce, no matter how much some wish it did and it certainly isn't RDNA3 for those few unhinged people on here that are trying to hold on to that pipe dream.
 
T

TaylorSwiftFan

Member
tryDEATH said:
Sony simply didn't wait or didn't have a large enough budget to go for the full RDNA2 suit, its as simple as that.

People trying to label RDNA2 suit as generic and big up Sony's custom parts some which aren't even one-for-one with what RDNA2 has are at this point only triggered fanboys that had been spreading FUD on here for ages while playing tech analysts with inside information that was imaginary.

Those custom parts from Sony simply aren't going to be able to perform at the level of the integrated features of RDNA2, expect a lot of games on PS5 to perform worse than just the raw performance numbers that we have between these systems.

PS5 is going to be a decent amount weaker product this generation until we get a refresh. You best come to terms with that, there isn't a secret sauce, no matter how much some wish it did and it certainly isn't RDNA3 for those few unhinged people on here that are trying to hold on to that pipe dream.
Click to expand...
Where did you get this information from? That Sony did not have a big enough budget.
 
FranXico

FranXico

Member
tryDEATH said:
Those custom parts from Sony simply aren't going to be able to perform at the level of the integrated features of RDNA2, expect a lot of games on PS5 to perform worse than just the raw performance numbers that we have between these systems.
Click to expand...
This is the real FUD. Customizations do not necessarily make a console chip inferior or superior to a desktop GPU card specification.

tryDEATH said:
it certainly isn't RDNA3 for those few unhinged people on here that are trying to hold on to that pipe dream.
Click to expand...
Nobody said that the PS5 GPU is RDNA3. Stop lying and trying to misinform people.
 
Last edited:
Yoboman

Yoboman

Gold Member
tryDEATH said:
Sony simply didn't wait or didn't have a large enough budget to go for the full RDNA2 suit, its as simple as that.

People trying to label RDNA2 suit as generic and big up Sony's custom parts some which aren't even one-for-one with what RDNA2 has are at this point only triggered fanboys that had been spreading FUD on here for ages while playing tech analysts with inside information that was imaginary.

Those custom parts from Sony simply aren't going to be able to perform at the level of the integrated features of RDNA2, expect a lot of games on PS5 to perform worse than just the raw performance numbers that we have between these systems.

PS5 is going to be a decent amount weaker product this generation until we get a refresh. You best come to terms with that, there isn't a secret sauce, no matter how much some wish it did and it certainly isn't RDNA3 for those few unhinged people on here that are trying to hold on to that pipe dream.
Click to expand...
Sources? Or are you just spreading FUD?
 
tryDEATH

tryDEATH

Member
FireFistAce said:
Where did you get this information from? That Sony did not have a big enough budget.
Click to expand...

I said they either didn't want to wait or the time to wait for the full RDNA2 suit would have exceed their console budget that they targeted. Both consoles made concessions when building consoles omitting features is one way to cut costs.

FranXico said:
This is the real FUD. Customizations do not necessarily make a console chip inferior or superior to a desktop GPU card specification.


Nobody said that the PS5 GPU is RDNA3. Stop lying and trying to misinform people.
Click to expand...

Customization doesn't mean it goings to be worse in some case, but we are talking about AMD spending billions on developing RDNA2 this isn't like creating a custom cooling solution. Thinking Sony is just able to reinvent and make better custom features than the ones that where invented and optimized by AMD for their product is naive and wishful thinking.

As for the RDNA3, there are people on here that though and still think and hold on to the hope that the PS5 has RDNA3 features.
 
B

BeardGawd

Banned
tryDEATH said:
I said they either didn't want to wait or the time to wait for the full RDNA2 suit would have exceed their console budget that they targeted. Both consoles made concessions when building consoles omitting features is one way to cut costs.



Customization doesn't mean it goings to be worse in some case, but we are talking about AMD spending billions on developing RDNA2 this isn't like creating a custom cooling solution. Thinking Sony is just able to reinvent and make better custom features than the ones that where invented and optimized by AMD for their product is naive and wishful thinking.

As for the RDNA3, there are people on here that though and still think and hold on to the hope that the PS5 has RDNA3 features.
Click to expand...
We saw what happened when Sony tried to compete with modern GPUs. They went running to Nvidia last minute because their PS3 couldn't compete. Somehow this same Sony can just magically recreate any and all features they are missing that TWO huge computing companies co-developed with ridiculous R&D budgets. I mean come on.
 
DForce

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
KRYPT83 said:
Because if PS5 has them Sony would ne screaming from the rooftops about it. Checkmate accept the fact Microsoft under Phil Spencer will never under deliver a weaker console period. Ps fans should be hurt Sony have wizards working at there 1st party studios and always release bangers be happy about that. PS5 is rdna1.5 that's a fact that's been known for 6 months now nothing will change that until Sony releases Ps5pro
Click to expand...

This is just a terrible response. lol

There's no need for them to scream from the rooftops. That's something Microsoft does to get the fanboys talking. They love to use these type of buzz words to get people talking when the vast majority has no clue what exactly it would do.


It's not RDNA 1.5, it's just a narrative Xbox fanboys love to push.
 
Neko Mimi Mode

Neko Mimi Mode

Member
Agnostic2020 said:
Not just you. Ceo of amd also considers ps5 rdna2 .

MiTqEaV.jpg


Ms is using clever marketing term. Pc rdna 2 is using direct x api for rattracing and few features like vrs . Sony ofcourse is not using dx12 (ms api) and has their own version.
Click to expand...

First, obviously PS5 is RDNA2 based, we see that from the teardown video.

Second, the reason they aren't full RDNA2 isn't because of DX12, if you read the MS and AMD details on this you'd know Xbox is full "hardware" RDNA2 integration, not software ala DirectX.

There is something else different in the physical components of the PS5 and Xbox GPU chips, what that is we don't really know yet.
 
anothertech

anothertech

Member
Dam. I knew Craig had these fanboys pannies in a bunch, but didn't realize the extent they would go to cover it up.

Seriously, stop the bullshit. This FUD campaign was literally designed to distract from Chris leaving 343i.

We know both are rdna2 straight from the devs mouths. "full rdna2" could mean anythjng or nothing (most likely nothing) and you are simply saying the shit they feed you. Stupid af y'all.
 
DForce

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Hix said:
You are still speculating, we don't know what is included or otherwise. All we can say about is VRS based on DF's observations.

Cerny, or Sony PR, could just as easily say "we are using full RDNA2 architecture except for customised features more suited to PS5 such as our own variants of VRS, mesh shaders and SFS"

In fact they've said literally nothing except "we've tailor made a great console" and, while I agree, anything more is conjecture.
Click to expand...
SFS, DirectX Ray Tracing and DirectStorage are all desktop/Xbox features.

That's not speculating. It's not in PS5, period.

We already know about Sony's custom I/O, so there's no need for them to mention SFS.

Xbox Series X|S are the only next-generation consoles with full hardware support for all the RDNA 2 capabilities AMD showcased today.

AMD’s latest RDNA 2 architecture delivers a significant increase in performance and efficiency over previous architectures, as well as adding new hardware acceleration capabilities including hardware accelerated DirectX Raytracing, Mesh Shaders, Sampler Feedback and Variable Rate Shading. Hardware accelerated DirectX Raytracing, showcased at launch by titles such as Ubisoft’s Watch Dogs: Legion, enables developers to deliver a new level of visual fidelity and immersion through techniques such as realistic lighting, shadows, reflections and acoustics. Mesh Shaders can manipulate geometry in real time to provide a high level of fidelity and flexibility that developers have never had before. Sampler Feedback greatly improves memory efficiency by allowing games to load into memory, with fine granularity, only the portions of textures that the GPU needs for a scene, as it needs it, providing an effective 2.5x memory and bandwidth multiplier beyond the raw hardware capabilities. Sampler Feedback also enables efficient creation and shading of textures on-demand.
Click to expand...


It's clear that Microsoft is talking about desktop features that are part of the full RDNA 2 and they're specifically talking about the ones showcased today.


Sony is not using SFS
Sony is not using DirectX RT
 
geordiemp

geordiemp

Member
tryDEATH said:
Sony simply didn't wait or didn't have a large enough budget to go for the full RDNA2 suit, its as simple as that.

People trying to label RDNA2 suit as generic and big up Sony's custom parts some which aren't even one-for-one with what RDNA2 has are at this point only triggered fanboys that had been spreading FUD on here for ages while playing tech analysts with inside information that was imaginary.

Those custom parts from Sony simply aren't going to be able to perform at the level of the integrated features of RDNA2, expect a lot of games on PS5 to perform worse than just the raw performance numbers that we have between these systems.

PS5 is going to be a decent amount weaker product this generation until we get a refresh. You best come to terms with that, there isn't a secret sauce, no matter how much some wish it did and it certainly isn't RDNA3 for those few unhinged people on here that are trying to hold on to that pipe dream.
Click to expand...

So Sony could not afford RDNA2 now and the difference will be even more than 18 %.

Bookmarked for first DF comparison. Will you come back and discuss ?
 
Last edited:
DForce

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
BeardGawd said:
We saw what happened when Sony tried to compete with modern GPUs. They went running to Nvidia last minute because their PS3 couldn't compete. Somehow this same Sony can just magically recreate any and all features they are missing that TWO huge computing companies co-developed with ridiculous R&D budgets. I mean come on.
Click to expand...

Oh yes, Sony didn't just create a PS4 and PS5 consoles that developers love. They also didn't work with AMD on RDNA features.
 
Neko Mimi Mode

Neko Mimi Mode

Member
DForce said:
SFS, DirectX Ray Tracing and DirectStorage are all desktop/Xbox features.

That's not speculating. It's not in PS5, period.

We already know about Sony's custom I/O, so there's no need for them to mention SFS.




It's clear that Microsoft is talking about desktop features that are part of the full RDNA 2 and they're specifically talking about the ones showcased today.


Sony is not using SFS
Sony is not using DirectX RT
Click to expand...

I don't deny these things, you're obfuscating by suggesting these things are the only features missing, and that's simply speculation on your part.

Again, this Series X/S are billed as "the only next gen consoles with full hardware RDNA2 support". Either there is something else different between the GPU architecture on a physical level or Microsoft and AMD are lying.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
DForce

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Hix said:
I don't deny these things, you're obfuscating by suggesting these things are the only features missing, and that's simply speculation on your part.

Again, this Series X/S are billed as "the only next gen consoles with full hardware RDNA2 support". Either there is something else different between the GPU architecture on a physical level or Microsoft and AMD are lying.
Click to expand...
You're missing the point.

You said they were speculating when Mark Cerny said they didn't need to use PC architecture when that's what he was clearly talking about.

The features are mentioned from Microsoft are part of the RDNA 2 architecture and Sony is obviously not going to use them. Microsoft is saying theirs is full RDNA 2 because of all those specific features.

AMD and Microsoft is not lying if they're the ones who are using DirectX RT and SFS.
 
tryDEATH

tryDEATH

Member
geordiemp said:
So Sony could not afford RDNA2 now and the difference will be even more than 18 %.

Bookmarked for first DF comparison. Will you come back and discuss ?
Click to expand...

Sony could afford it, but maybe due to budgetary constrains decided not to license all of RDNA2 and save money on the SoC. Sony went crazy with cooling and SSD.

Also both of us know that it will be more than 18% because the PS5 is variable, the only thing we don't know is how low it will drop. Once we get that info and you add the fully optimized and complete RDNA2 I am guessing the difference in a year or two will be 25% up to 35% in some extreme cases, which will be enough to see some games run dynamic vs. native.
 
Snake29

Snake29

RSI Employee of the Year
KRYPT83 said:
Because if PS5 has them Sony would ne screaming from the rooftops about it. Checkmate accept the fact Microsoft under Phil Spencer will never under deliver a weaker console period. Ps fans should be hurt Sony have wizards working at there 1st party studios and always release bangers be happy about that. PS5 is rdna1.5 that's a fact that's been known for 6 months now nothing will change that until Sony releases Ps5pro
Click to expand...

How do you show that to your audience? Things like 4K/120, 8K, Tempest 3D audio...those are things you can marketing...but VRS? If not even 1% of the games will using it in the end, what was the reason to scream from the rooftops? It's not like it makes games look better.

Otherwise Vulkan wouldn't exist if only 1 company could create api's.
 
Last edited:
DForce

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Hix said:
First, obviously PS5 is RDNA2 based, we see that from the teardown video.

Second, the reason they aren't full RDNA2 isn't because of DX12, if you read the MS and AMD details on this you'd know Xbox is full "hardware" RDNA2 integration, not software ala DirectX.

There is something else different in the physical components of the PS5 and Xbox GPU chips, what that is we don't really know yet.
Click to expand...


DirectX Raytracing is hardware-accelerated. Do you even know what you're talking about? lol
 
geordiemp

geordiemp

Member
tryDEATH said:
Sony could afford it, but maybe due to budgetary constrains decided not to license all of RDNA2 and save money on the SoC. Sony went crazy with cooling and SSD.

Also both of us know that it will be more than 18% because the PS5 is variable, the only thing we don't know is how low it will drop. Once we get that info and you add the fully optimized and complete RDNA2 I am guessing the difference in a year or two will be 25% up to 35% in some extreme cases, which will be enough to see some games run dynamic vs. native.
Click to expand...

Oh its going to be fun, you just believe that, bookmarked.

Just be sure to come back and you have plenty of time to consider excuses, year 2 and year 3, SDK - just work on them

Reality will sink in.
 
Last edited:
Neko Mimi Mode

Neko Mimi Mode

Member
DForce said:
DirectX Raytracing is hardware-accelerated. Do you even know what you're talking about? lol
Click to expand...

God you've been insufferable since this was announced.

DirectX is a set of API to access hardware, this has nothing to do with RDNA2.

Hardware does not use a graphics API. It’s the other way around, graphics APIs request or use hardware. DX is an API that a game running on PC/Xbox can use to access RDNA2 hardware features.

RDNA2 can be said to be DX12 Ultimate compliant as it has all the features the API could possibly request of it, but it does not use the API that’s just not how things work.

DirectX sits between the engine and the operating system, the idea that it’s some inherent aspect of the hardware is either a misunderstanding on your part or you're obfuscating again.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
DForce

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Hix said:
God you've been insufferable since this was announced.

DirectX is a set of API to access hardware, this has nothing to do with RDNA2.

Hardware does not use a graphics API. It’s the other way around, graphics APIs request or use hardware. DX is an API that a game running on PC/Xbox can use to access RDNA2 hardware features.

RDNA2 can be said to be DX12 Ultimate compliant as it has all the features the API could possibly request of it, but it does not use the API that’s just not how things work.

DirectX sits between the engine and the operating system, the idea that it’s some inherent aspect of the hardware is either a misunderstanding on your part or you're obfuscating again.
Click to expand...

You're not getting it.

Their Hardware Raytracing IS hardware accelerated and it's not software based.

This Hardware accelerated Raytracing IS labeled "DirectX Raytracing".

hqdefault.jpg


DirectX Raytracing
Mesh Shaders
Variable Rate Shading
Sampler Feedback

That's one of the so called "hardware" features they were talking about. It's not specifically just DirectX.
 
tryDEATH

tryDEATH

Member
geordiemp said:
Oh its going to be fun, you just believe that, bookmarked.

Just be sure to come back and you have plenty of time to consider excuses, year 2 and year 3, SDK - just work on them

Reality will sink in.
Click to expand...

Well you believed PS5 had RDNA3 through the sheer power of bullshit, I am at least basing my opinion from factual data that we know for certain I am just just logically extrapolating from that information.

Looking forward to your next absurd hot take that will go unchecked on here.
 
geordiemp

geordiemp

Member
tryDEATH said:
Well you believed PS5 had RDNA3 through the sheer power of bullshit, I am at least basing my opinion from factual data that we know for certain I am just just logically extrapolating from that information.

Looking forward to your next absurd hot take that will go unchecked on here.
Click to expand...

25 to 35 %, dont forget.
 
pyrocro

pyrocro

Member
Hix said:
God you've been insufferable since this was announced.

DirectX is a set of API to access hardware, this has nothing to do with RDNA2.

Hardware does not use a graphics API. It’s the other way around, graphics APIs request or use hardware. DX is an API that a game running on PC/Xbox can use to access RDNA2 hardware features.

RDNA2 can be said to be DX12 Ultimate compliant as it has all the features the API could possibly request of it, but it does not use the API that’s just not how things work.

DirectX sits between the engine and the operating system, the idea that it’s some inherent aspect of the hardware is either a misunderstanding on your part or you're obfuscating again.
Click to expand...
I love it when they don't even know how clueless they are.
good luck getting him to see we all see his lack of understanding of these things.
 
Krisprolls

Krisprolls

Banned
It doesn't matter what is RDNA 1, 1.75 or 2. It's just a tag. You can do the same thing in other ways with custom solutions.

Only thing that matters is the final result on screen and don't expect big differences.

Ubi already stated every game will be same res / same fps target on both platforms (mostly reconstructed 4k / 60 on both ps5 and xsx).

This debate makes no sense.
 
Raonak

Raonak

Banned
maybe sony's VRS implementation/replacement is so good that you can't notice it?

Who needs RDNA2, when you can make RDNA5.
 
Last edited:
longdi

longdi

Banned
Tom Warren is going to publish new story about next gen console development. The hint i got from his tweet is that Sony closed off ps5 design earlier, and it is easier to mass produced.. MS waited for Amd advanced features to complete and is harder to produce

So whatever patents with whatever designs, it is interesting to see who got the more perfomant variable shading and polygon culling and textures savings. I put my trust in AMD advancd solutions, what about you? :messenger_savoring:
 
Agnostic2020

Agnostic2020

Member
longdi said:
Tom Warren is going to publish new story about next gen console development. The hint i got from his tweet is that Sony closed off ps5 design earlier, and it is easier to mass produced.. MS waited for Amd advanced features to complete and is harder to produce

So whatever patents with whatever designs, it is interesting to see who got the more perfomant variable shading and polygon culling and textures savings. I put my trust in AMD advancd solutions, what about you? :messenger_savoring:
Click to expand...
Games will do the talking.no need to put faith anyone but games made by devs
 
Last edited:
Razvedka

Razvedka

Banned
Sounds to me that Sony has made alot of customizations that deviate significantly from 'the spec' AMD has established. For better or worse, i don't know.

Curious to see if Sony and AMD talk about this at all, or if the silence on their part regarding the PS5 is a tacit admission they were simply the underperforming box regarding the GPU.
 
Last edited:
Andodalf

Andodalf

Banned
Gaf 2 days ago:

Sony invented RDNA 2.0 and only they have it! MS is missing features and is 1.5 at best!


Today:

RDNA 2.0 is trash and having all the features is probably a bad thing!



Guys we know you’re just blatantly console warring but try and pick new viewpoints that don’t make you look like you’re mentally handicapped.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

[Digital Foundry] New PS5 Pro GPU details emerge - including a 2.35GHz max boost clock
News Hardware Platform 3 4 5 6 7
310
24K
Lysandros replied
Can Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart on PC match - and exceed - the PS5 experience?
17 18 19 20 21
1K
57K
Md Ray replied
  • Poll
Halo Infinite Campaign - The Digital Foundry Tech Review
Analysis 2 3
124
10K
Feel Like I'm On 42 replied
Richard Leadbetter of Digital Foundry: Why the return of 30fps console games is inevitable
Analysis Game Dev 6 7 8 9 10
481
30K
Rocco Schiavone replied
AMD announces frame generation for all DX11 and DX12 games
2 3 4
169
14K
Crayon replied
Top Bottom