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[Boss Mog]

We have confirmation that Sony didn't wait for the full realization of RDNA2 to be completed, but MS did.

On another note: after being told for months that Series X/S aren't full RDNA2 and PS5 is, to see "generic" as the new weapon of choice is amusing.

Sony custom RDNA2 have their own VRS and mesh shading - Cerny and Naughty dog

There is allot of mis understanding on RDNA2 features, especially where Sony wanted their own VRS and own mesh shader type operations. See below. Hopefully puts the confusion to rest why Sony used their own methods rather than standard AMD. Its called customisation...

www.neogaf.com

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

Cerny said the same thing in the road to ps5 presentation.
the GPU is backward compatible with ps4.



so according to your logic ps5 is gcn with some rdna but the XsX is faster with more features.

just stop.

ps5 can run games in some sort of backwards compatibility boost mode probably with lower clocks unless games are patched, but who knows. Xbox is said runs at full capacity running unpatched games in native mode, not boost or emulation, with full power of the hardware behind them minus new features.

The only ones who've said they can run games natively at full speed is microsoft, sony hasn't said that.

 

[Insane Metal]

You guys are insane if you think Microsoft somehow got some tech exclusive to consoles by paying AMD or whatever. That does not happen. Likely, Sony decided to make their APU completely custom and add only what they thought was needed and cut what they decided was unnecessary on a console.

This will become clearer as time goes by.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Well, have a look at the ban list. Today another one mentioning that evil number bites the dust:

Ban History

Here you can see the latest site bans

www.neogaf.com

Doesn’t say who wields the axe

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Sony custom RDNA2 have their own VRS and mesh shading - Cerny and Naughty dog

There is allot of mis understanding on RDNA2 features, especially where Sony wanted their own VRS and own mesh shader type operations. See below. Hopefully puts the confusion to rest why Sony used their own methods rather than standard AMD. Its called customisation...

www.neogaf.com

That's simply speculation based on patents. Every tech company files patents. Every tech company has various R&D initiatives. Unless there are clearly stated official specifications in products coming to market, however, it's very hard to tie many of those patents and R&D projects to implementations in actual systems or designs, so you're left mainly to speculate and the such.

Which is all well and good. But none of it counts as actual, official confirmation.

 

[thelastword]

So they were wrong again?

Not only does PS5 have VRS and Mesh shading, but it has an even more advanced engine that amplifies these technologies, customized on the PS5 through the geometry engine......Very early in the game a dev already stated that the geometry engine is a marvel of engineering on the PS5. Pretty much all the parts in PS5 work together to quicken the render path....including the blazing fast SSD and cache scrubbers....

 

[geordiemp]

That's simply speculation based on patents. Every tech company files patents. Every tech company has various R&D initiatives. Unless there are clearly stated official specifications in products coming to market, however, it's very hard to tie many of those patents and R&D projects to implementations in actual systems or designs, so you're left mainly to speculate and the such.

Which is all well and good. But none of it counts as actual, official confirmation.

I am sure Cerny and Naughty dog did a large complex patent on how to apply VRS to more complex dual image VR applications and did not use it of course duirng the many years of ps5 development collaboration with AMD.

Did you seee the IPC increases for VR ?

I can not see how such an advancd technique would be useful at all to Sony, they dont do VR.

And they just skipped standard VRS from AMD that did not work right first time in RDNA1 becasue it was also thought they best miss it so Gaf posters can be correct.

Sound analysis

 

[Rippa]

Welp...

As long as I get games that look as good and/or better than Demon’s Souls remake, I’m good.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I am sure Cerny and Naughty dog did a large complex patent on how to apply VRS to more complex dual image VR applications and did not use it of course duirng the many years of ps5 development collaboration with AMD.

Did you seee the IPC increases for VR ?

I can not see how such an advancd technique would be useful at all to Sony, they dont do VR.

And they just skipped standard VRS from AMD that did not work right first time in RDNA1 becasue it was also thought they best miss it so Gaf posters can be correct.

Sound analysis

I'm not saying speculating off the patents is worthless. We speculate with patents and research papers etc. all the time. However, again where is the clarification from Sony officially on these things? Even AMD clarified a few of things on their behalf, but we're referring now to specific Sony patents so clarification would come down onto them, and they don't need to wait for AMD to do so.

It's perfectly possible some of these patents are specifically geared to PSVR2, for example, meaning they'd be built into the headset hardware directly for off-system processing. But if so we won't learn about that until at least a year from now. If it's more directly tied to the PS5 console itself, then we either should've already gotten official clarification, or should expect it within a month from now.

After all, these are major technological developments and Road to PS5, for all intents and purposes, was aimed at developers.

 

[geordiemp]

I'm not saying speculating off the patents is worthless. We speculate with patents and research papers etc. all the time. However, again where is the clarification from Sony officially on these things? Even AMD clarified a few of things on their behalf, but we're referring now to specific Sony patents so clarification would come down onto them, and they don't need to wait for AMD to do so.

It's perfectly possible some of these patents are specifically geared to PSVR2, for example, meaning they'd be built into the headset hardware directly for off-system processing. But if so we won't learn about that until at least a year from now. If it's more directly tied to the PS5 console itself, then we either should've already gotten official clarification, or should expect it within a month from now.

After all, these are major technological developments and Road to PS5, for all intents and purposes, was aimed at developers.

Reduced shading work for the GPU built into the headset hardware ?

Come on, your better than that. Put your b3d head on.

We know how GPUs work.

 

[NullZ3r0]

Who cares PS5 games look like this

I would expect a corridor hack and slash with at most three characters on screen to look phenomenal on PS5.

 

[Elias]

I would expect a corridor hack and slash with at most three characters on screen to look phenomenal on PS5.

In terms of detail, looks about on par with Scorn except it isn't targeting 4k/60

 

[DForce]

It's likely that this is going to be similar to how many Xbox fans on here denied HW RT in the PS5 and Mark Cerny was lying during his presentation.

 

[pyrocro]

I won't, just like I won't forget you claiming PS5 was RDNA3.

ps5 can run games in some sort of backwards compatibility boost mode probably with lower clocks unless games are patched, but who knows. Xbox is said runs at full capacity running unpatched games in native mode, not boost or emulation, with full power of the hardware behind them minus new features.

The only ones who've said they can run games natively at full speed is microsoft, sony hasn't said that.

The Xbox one & series is always using a level of emulation/virtualization for their games which is why they were so confident of their backward compatibility.
The hardware compatibility on both systems is very likely to be the same as it still AMD CPU and GPU and the same strategy may very well apply for both.

 

[mcjmetroid]

What!?
FFS what were Sony thinking leaving this shit out!?

Only one question remains now...





The fuck is VRS?

 

[oldergamer]

And you have any evidence for this claim?

Sure an educated guess. Its more then u got

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Sure an educated guess. Its more then u got

Educated guesses have some sort of basis what's yours?

 

[polybius80]

The fuck is VRS?

its a technique where the pixels inside a triangle are shaded at lower resolution to save power, the triangles selected for this are in certain parts of the screen less likely to be noticed by the player, so basically they do less work in in front of you and expect you and digital foundry, you know they guys that make 400% zoom at games for a living, to not notice

PS5 will probably support this using id-buffer(or an improvement of it) like the one in PS4 Pro, id-buffer give devs the ability to know wich pixels are inside each object on screen which is useful to implement many techniques, it provides most of what VRS need to know

 

[Clear]

I would expect a corridor hack and slash with at most three characters on screen to look phenomenal on PS5.

It also needs to support up to 3 vs 3 human players duelling in any area of the game. Oh yeah, and just because they've mainly shown constrained areas you shouldn't assume that the scope isn't much more substantial, as typical for all Souls games there are some pretty spectacular and complex maps.

 

[WildBoy]

Demon's souls look incredible and it's a shame MS don't have first party showcase yet. But the same happened when Playstation 3 came out. Everything on 360 looked better for a long time. I know ps5 doesn't have a cell processor... (If it did it would be backwards compatible! Wahey!) But I still think all this judging is very premature. Enjoy your system whatever you got folks! Dual sense looks insane, Auto HDR is clever tech - competition is good! Don't champion one company or you will end up paying 70 for all your games.

 

[Krisprolls]

I don't know if Demon's Souls has VRS, but it certainly looks 2 gens ahead of "full RDNA 2" Craig on XSX... Which is what matters, what's on screen and what you play.

Leave the technical mumbo jumbo to devs, you don't understand any of this anyway.

 

[Elias]

I don't know if Demon's Souls has VRS, but it certainly looks 2 gens ahead of "full RDNA 2" Craig on XSX... Which is what matters, what's on screen and what you play.

Leave the technical mumbo jumbo to devs, you don't understand any of this anyway.

looks on par with Scorn, except doesn't run at a non dynamic 4k/60

 

[WildBoy]

I don't know if Demon's Souls has VRS, but it certainly looks 2 gens ahead of "full RDNA 2" Craig on XSX... Which is what matters, what's on screen and what you play.

Leave the technical mumbo jumbo to devs, you don't understand any of this anyway.

Is demon's souls aiming for 120fps? I didn't know that. In all honesty Halo has never been about the graphics. Blue point are technical wizards... A remake is way less work than a brand new flagship title. Halo infinite looked fine. The Craig meme is honestly an asanine argument... The pop in clouds and grass were more concerning imo.

 

[Krisprolls]

looks on par with Scorn, except doesn't run at a non dynamic 4k/60

Demon's Souls looks clearly better, but yeah it looks good too.

 

[PuppetMaster]

I would expect a corridor hack and slash with at most three characters on screen to look phenomenal on PS5.

They actually increased the summon limit from the Ps3 version for this remake. They player can summon 2 players, and the invader can bring 2. So thats 6 total human player / non npc characters now. And thats not even including npc enemies.

Plus some levels can absolutely swarm you with enemies. The whole game is not like the early parts in the firsr trailer with mere 1 on 1 fights. DS can get pretty crazy at times.

And in the original version, the frame rate would drop to the teens when it got crazy. So its very impressive if they can keep a locked 30 at 4K. And if they really can keep it locked at 60 in performance mode, that is even more amazing!

 

[geordiemp]

And ps5 has a custom VRS patented by Cerny and Naughty dog, and its inside the new ps5 secret Geometry engine that also does mesh shading with VRS.

Confirmed by developer.

Whats up next ?

 

[chilichote]

And ps5 has a custom VRS patented by Cerny and Naughty dog, and its inside the new ps5 secret Geometry engine that also does mesh shading with VRS.

Confirmed by developer.

Whats up next ?

Case closed ^^

Regardless, I personally find it better if you don't see traces of such techniques on the screen. After all, what use is all the power if it makes the overall picture inconsistent.

 

[MonarchJT]

i think that at this point we will see (and accept) the differences just in the DF threads . that's said ms waited long to release with full rdna2 capability sony was testing differents steps of their soc already 1.5+ years ago. . that's said ms waited long to release with full rdna2 capability sony was testing differents steps of their soc already 1.5+ years ago. it will take at least 1 year before take full advantage of the full rdna2 new capabilities.
let's start with the new assassin's creed

 

[itsnotme]

looks on par with Scorn, except doesn't run at a non dynamic 4k/60

On par with what? Yeah maybe the PS3 version lol. It's not hard to admit DS looks better no need to be in denial.

 

[geordiemp]

i think that at this point we will see (and accept) the differences just in the DF threads . that's said ms waited long to release with full rdna2 capability sony was testing differents steps of their soc already 1.5+ years ago. . that's said ms waited long to release with full rdna2 capability sony was testing differents steps of their soc already 1.5+ years ago. it will take at least 1 year before take full advantage of the full rdna2 new capabilities.
let's start with the new assassin's creed

Your hoping the new assasins creed with splatter VRS everywhere on XSX to gain an advantage and not on ps5 ?

I bet that story sounds good in your head.. mesh shaders and programming will take time for both consoles if they are impemented lol.

If XSX held back, why do they not have fine grain frequency control ? Why use RDNA1 frequencies ? Why use 20 wavefronts and 2 packers from RDNA1 ?

Do you understand this slide ? Which bullet points do you think XSX waited for ?

Phil said he had an XSX last Christmas - who is telling the truth ?

 

[MonarchJT]

Your hoping the new assasins creed with splatter VRS everywhere on XSX to gain an advantage and not on ps5.

I bet that story sounds good in your head.. mesh shaders and programming will time for both consoles if they are impemented lol.

i explained to you in 1 other thread what i think about the vrs and what the ps5 could support. I'm not hoping for anything more than what the logic implies. Probably is the opposite geordiemp? lately I see a lot of "last gen secret sauce" arguments that seem to try to fill a gap that will be what it will be

 

[geordiemp]

i explained to you in 1 other thread what i think about the vrs and what the ps5 could support. I'm not hoping for anything more than what the logic implies. Probably is the opposite geordiemp? lately I see a lot of "last gen secret sauce" arguments that seem to try to fill a gap that will be what it will be

Answer the question - what do you think XSX implemented on this slide for CU RDNA2 optimisation ?

 

[Bladed Thesis]

And ps5 has a custom VRS patented by Cerny and Naughty dog, and its inside the new ps5 secret Geometry engine that also does mesh shading with VRS.

Confirmed by developer.

Whats up next ?

What developer does he work for? He has no game credits currently. He did just graduate in 2019 with his degree but he has zero shipped games based off his LinkedIn profile and only recently got a job at Unity Technologies team as a XR and Gaming Recruiter. So he just got a job with Unity to recruit game developers. While he said he accepted that position, he hasn't put it into his LinkedIn profile but when you look at other XR and Gaming Recreuiters for Unity such as the other profile linked below you'll see that it is a sales job to sell Unity to developers. He says on instagram that game development is a hobby from college in several instagram posts. And during his time as a "Game Designer" at "Independent Game Designer" company, he also worked as a security guard at casino called Jake's 58 linked below. He also lists his job at school as Lead Game Designer but lists the accomplishments as small projects in processing language, C++ and C#. Hardly devkit worthy projects, I'm assuming. His LinkedIn profile also says he's still looking for opportunities.

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Also, as a game developer with a Devkit, he'd be under NDA to talk about hardware features not currently revealed by Playstation.

I think this guy is lying. Or it's a fake. The pictures are all unique to his accounts so I'm going with lying. Not the tweets I'd hang my hat on, guys.

 

[assurdum]

I don't understood all that passion for the VRS. It causes lot of shimmering, low buffer artifacts, even aliasing, is really that worth? From what I have seen in the benchmark doesn't save that much in terms of cost of compute resource.

 

[geordiemp]

I don't understood all that passion for the VRS. It cause lot of shimmering, low buffer artifact, even aliasing, is really that worth? From what I have seen Iin the benchmark doesn't save that much in terms of cost of compute resource.

I can see why its good for racing games with constant motion and VR of course, but for games where your looking at detail I agree.

 

[Eternal21]

More DF FUD? No surprise there.

 

[Ultra Violento]

But back in my day we only had VHS!

 

[kikonawa]

looks on par with Scorn, except doesn't run at a non dynamic 4k/60

looks like a ps3 game

 

[SatansReverence]

I think this guy is lying. Or it's a fake. The pictures are all unique to his accounts so I'm going with lying. Not the tweets I'd hang my hat on, guys.

Dolphin game guy has more experience than that bloke

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

The Xbox one & series is always using a level of emulation/virtualization for their games which is why they were so confident of their backward compatibility.
The hardware compatibility on both systems is very likely to be the same as it still AMD CPU and GPU and the same strategy may very well apply for both.

It’s possible in large part because an emulation layer isn’t really needed: Xbox One code runs out of the box on Series X hardware.

Xbox Series X’s Backward Compatibility Features Are a Lot More Impressive Than You Think

gamingbolt.com

It seems what they've been telling journalists is the code runs natively without any emulation layer.

 

[01011001]

Xbox Series X’s Backward Compatibility Features Are a Lot More Impressive Than You Think

gamingbolt.com

It seems what they've been telling journalists is the code runs natively without any emulation layer.

I think what he wanted to say is that Xbox consoles, from Xbox One and forward, run games in a VM (Virtual Machine). the games use a separate specialised OS called GameCore, while the dashboard and apps run on a modified version of Windows 10.

this virtualization could be a big help in making games compatible with new hardware.

a recent Windows 10 update made the system technically compatible with gamecore btw. so we might soon see support for Xbox One games on Windows 10, or at least a tool for developers to do a super fast an easy port to win10

 

[thelastword]

looks on par with Scorn, except doesn't run at a non dynamic 4k/60

Scorn looks on par with what? Demon Souls? That's not even good bait, too ridiculous....

 

[Alebrije]

looks on par with Scorn, except doesn't run at a non dynamic 4k/60

 

[Hezekiah]

Sony simply didn't wait or didn't have a large enough budget to go for the full RDNA2 suit, its as simple as that.

People trying to label RDNA2 suit as generic and big up Sony's custom parts some which aren't even one-for-one with what RDNA2 has are at this point only triggered fanboys that had been spreading FUD on here for ages while playing tech analysts with inside information that was imaginary.

Those custom parts from Sony simply aren't going to be able to perform at the level of the integrated features of RDNA2, expect a lot of games on PS5 to perform worse than just the raw performance numbers that we have between these systems.

PS5 is going to be a decent amount weaker product this generation until we get a refresh. You best come to terms with that, there isn't a secret sauce, no matter how much some wish it did and it certainly isn't RDNA3 for those few unhinged people on here that are trying to hold on to that pipe dream.

The good thing is, if this is bullshit it will soon be exposed as such.

My opinion remains the same - third-party games will look extremely similar, and first-party games will look better on Playstation again.

Cerny has an excellent track record. And I think Sony's custom RDNA2 will be no different.

 

[Elias]

Nice meme. Now show me one PS5 exclusive using VRS.

 

[polybius80]

Nice meme. Now show me one PS5 exclusive using VRS.

why you want a PS5 game to use a technique that makes the graphics look worse?


eventually it will be used along other techniques and very strict LOD in more demanding games as generation progress better learn to get more performance in other ways first, using it in first games is not a good sign

 

[Elias]

why you want a PS5 games to use a technique that makes the graphics look worse?


eventually it will be used along other techniques and very strict LOD in more demanding games as generation progress better learn to get more performance in other ways first, using it in first games is not a good sign

So what you're saying is you have no proof. That's okay.

 

[polybius80]

So what you're saying is you have no proof. That's okay.

proof of what? VRS?

DF said they couldnt find VRS in use in the games have presented wich is very good because it means they dont require it or is extremely hard to spot

 

[Zannrebel]

What developer does he work for? He has no game credits currently. He did just graduate in 2019 with his degree but he has zero shipped games based off his LinkedIn profile and only recently got a job at Unity Technologies team as a XR and Gaming Recruiter. So he just got a job with Unity to recruit game developers. While he said he accepted that position, he hasn't put it into his LinkedIn profile but when you look at other XR and Gaming Recreuiters for Unity such as the other profile linked below you'll see that it is a sales job to sell Unity to developers. He says on instagram that game development is a hobby from college in several instagram posts. And during his time as a "Game Designer" at "Independent Game Designer" company, he also worked as a security guard at casino called Jake's 58 linked below. He also lists his job at school as Lead Game Designer but lists the accomplishments as small projects in processing language, C++ and C#. Hardly devkit worthy projects, I'm assuming. His LinkedIn profile also says he's still looking for opportunities.

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Also, as a game developer with a Devkit, he'd be under NDA to talk about hardware features not currently revealed by Playstation.

I think this guy is lying. Or it's a fake. The pictures are all unique to his accounts so I'm going with lying. Not the tweets I'd hang my hat on, guys.

This guy was an advocate for 13tf ps5 if anyone remembers. He's not to be trusted.

 

[MonarchJT]

Your hoping the new assasins creed with splatter VRS everywhere on XSX to gain an advantage and not on ps5 ?

I bet that story sounds good in your head.. mesh shaders and programming will take time for both consoles if they are impemented lol.

If XSX held back, why do they not have fine grain frequency control ? Why use RDNA1 frequencies ? Why use 20 wavefronts and 2 packers from RDNA1 ?

Do you understand this slide ? Which bullet points do you think XSX waited for ?

Phil said he had an XSX last Christmas - who is telling the truth ?

i think that rarely you will see third party games not running better on xsx yes ..and if u hoping the opposite you are delusional . period.