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[ElTorro]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-pes-2015-face-off

Kicking off with patch 1.01 installed on each, the initial reaction is perhaps the most obvious. With Xbox One running at 44.4 per cent of the PS4's overall pixel output, the presentation of pitch details is hugely impacted. From the patterning of grass shaders to the nylon weave across player boots, the impression is that Xbox One is working to a last-gen technical standard by rendering at 720p. Even setting the game to its default 'wide' camera option, the field and players are noticeably softened, and worst of all, panning sweeps across stadia supports and crowds produce a much nastier pixel crawl effect on Microsoft's platform.

Aside from pixel count, both Sony and Microsoft hardware holds up to the exact same bar of quality - the game's shadow quality, player facial detail, and texture map resolution are a match. Even so, however minor, there are some differences on close inspection. Texture filtering quality is a divisive point, appearing in a more refined form on PS4, while the Xbox One applies a more obvious filtering cascade to pitch-side insignia. Grass shaders also show up with sharper highlights on PS4 at ground level, manifesting in a slightly simplified form on the Microsoft platform. However, just about every other element of the game's design is even.

On to the frame-rate metrics, and we're immediately presented with strong 60fps performers on both PS4 and Xbox One. Simply put, the actual core gameplay runs at a perfect update without a single hiccup to mention; and, unlike FIFA, this applies to all set-pieces and gameplay camera modes. It's exactly as it should be, with the PS4's locked 1080p60 delivery every bit as consistent as in Metal Gear Solid 5: Ground Zeroes. Likewise for Xbox One, the resolution drop is a tough pill to swallow, but playback itself is at an unerring 60fps.

However, it's the experience surrounding the gameplay that is affected by frame-rate dips, and both consoles are impacted in different ways. For example, Xbox One suffers from more stuttering during cut-scenes, particularly just as a match pre-amble starts. Around team selection menus, we also catch background loading not present on PS4, which renders the controller inputs null for a second or two until it resolves. It's a minor frustration on Microsoft's platform, but once again, the on-pitch action is unaffected.

The PS4's unique issue is perhaps more glaring, but hardly a game-breaker. While automatic replays run at a perfect 60fps, entering the replay mode to manoeuvre the camera manually can cause dips on Sony's platform. For example, angling the viewpoint towards an oncoming player, with both teams in full view behind, makes it easy to record a sustained 40fps drop. Stress-testing the engine under normal circumstances is a challenge, but in this specific scenario the PS4 reveals an interesting bottleneck not shown on Microsoft's hardware.

All of which leaves us with a fairly clear round-up. For Konami's first football sim of this new generation, the PS4 is unequivocally the version of choice based on its vast resolution advantage. Pro Evolution Soccer 2015 may not have the glamour of its contemporaries, but unlike its FIFA competition, it's able to uphold a perfect 60fps during all forms of gameplay; from corners to its Be a Pro style mode. In this sense, neither PS4 or Xbox One miss out on a pitch-perfect gameplay experience.

There are other, minor advantages in favour of the PS4 release, such as the improved texture filtering, but at its essence, the 1080p presentation is the real clincher against the 720p Xbox One's version. At the cost of 40fps dips during manual replays, this is still an unbeatable position for Sony's platform, where virtually every other significant graphical point is matched between the two.

Kept you upscaling, huh?

 

[Jomjom]

Damn 1080p vs 720p is only "minor" now huh?

Also watched the part about the "manual replays," is that blue line not the fps? I see that in both versions the blue line goes below the green line, but on the PS4 the numerical counter goes down while the Xbone one says 60.0 throughout.

 

[HORRORSHØW]

1080p vs. 720p? strahan approved.

 

[Blablurn]

I think both football games need to step up their game.

Especially the crowd and the stadiums should be even more atmospheric. Both games feel like pretty PS3 games. I want more action. More detail.

Maybe I just want too much

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Damn 1080p vs 720p is only "minor" now huh?

Thats not what it says

 

[Sotha_Sil]

Damn 1080p vs 720p is only "minor" now huh?

Only to those who do not read.

 

[AbandonedTrolley]

Damn 1080p vs 720p is only "minor" now huh?

No things like improved texture filtering is minor, the 1080 v 720 is the major, and the thing that really makes the decision easy.

 

[Hasney]

I think both football games need to step up their game.

Especially the crowd and the stadiums should be even more atmospheric. Both games feel like pretty PS3 games. I want more action. More detail.

Maybe I just want too much

I just wanted better gameplay and the way the players handle and in that respect, PES 2015 is a hell of a step in the right direction.

Get the gameplay right before the bells and whistles. It's fantastic, especially compared to FIFA, but there's still work to be done.

 

[c0de]

Did they use a pre-release SDK? Disgusting performance on Xbone but they won't sell that much on it, anyway. Looking at how this game is now, the game will be looked at even worse.

 

[ambar_hitman]

Wow. Will MGS V also run at 720p on Xbone?

 

[Biker19]

No things like improved texture filtering is minor, the 1080 v 720 is the major, and the thing that really makes the decision easy.

This. I can understand games on PS3 & 360, but newer games on newer consoles being Xbox One & PS4, who wants to play games in Native 720p nowadays? Especially when most gamers (both console & PC) have Native 1080p HDTV's & Native 1080p gaming monitors?

 

[Conduit]

Did they use a pre-release SDK? Disgusting performance on Xbone but they won't sell that much on it, anyway. Looking at how this game is now, the game will be looked at even worse.

Nope! I think that Fox Engine use deferred rendering and Xbone has a problem with that. Deferred rendering is much more demanding than forward rendering.

 

[Hasney]

Wow. Will MGS V also run at 720p on Xbone?

Well GZ did. There were rumors MS sent some engineers out there to fix it up, so if they did, hopefully whatever they do can benefit PES 2016 too.

 

[Rembrandt]

Damn 1080p vs 720p is only "minor" now huh?

you should reread that bit and the first quote.

Wow. Will MGS V also run at 720p on Xbone?

probably, the fox engine doesn't seem to work too well on the xb1.

 

[Backfoggen]

Fox engine dudes giving zero effs about XB1. It's pretty hilarious.

 

[benny_a]

Wow. Will MGS V also run at 720p on Xbone?

It is a deferred rendering engine with huge MRTs according to a presentation at GDC (IIRC).

Maybe they can reduce the amount, because there is at least one other game that is using deferred rendering at 1080p on Xbone so it can be done. Just not with the current setup in FOX.
Obviously without knowing what the channels are used for it's hard to say how much of a negative impact it would have on the overall "quality" as DF puts it.

 

[Jomjom]

you should reread that bit and the first quote.



probably, the fox engine doesn't seem to work too well on the xb1.

Yeah I read that wrong. I thought they were grouping that all in with the "minor advantages" part.

 

[Always-honest]

Well if you have the choice i'd say this one is easy. Unless you only have soccerbuddies on the One ofcourse .

 

[Beboh13]

That's disappointing to hear about the Xb1 version. I held off on buying Fifa 15 this year in hopes to try this game. That performance gap is unacceptable considering Fifa and almost all multiplatform sports titles run at 1080p/60fps on both consoles.

 

[Bgamer90]

Fox engine dudes giving zero effs about XB1. It's pretty hilarious.

Yeah, pretty strange/funny. Makes me wonder how MGS will be.

 

[c0de]

Nope! I think that Fox Engine use deferred rendering and Xbone has a problem with that. Deffered rendering is much more demanding than forward rendering.

Yes, that seems possible. But looking at other multiplatform releases it seems many adapted their engine to work better with the Xbone while it seems this didn't happen for the Fox Engine...

 

[funkystudent]

I cant imagine MS's japanese dev support is all that great but hopefully they are sending people to help get things in shape before MGSV.

 

[EGM1966]

Man that engine does not like Xbox architecture does it? Wonder if they'll tweak it for MGS V or considering reducing asset quality for higher resolution.

60fps is great though.

Also this is prose style I prefer from DF. Less subjective language and more of a forensic presentation of the facts. They seem to bounce back and forth on more/less subjective content this gen so far and I wish they'd settle it down a bit.

 

[ambar_hitman]

It is a deferred rendering engine with huge MRTs according to a presentation at GDC (IIRC).

Maybe they can reduce the amount, because there is at least one other game that is using deferred rendering at 1080p on Xbone so it can be done. Just not with the current setup in FOX.
Obviously without knowing what the channels are used for it's hard to say how much of a negative impact it would have on the overall "quality" as DF puts it.

Wow. But both consoles have similar architecture apart from that esram on Xbone. Strange that the engine struggles on xbone.

 

[benny_a]

Wow. But both consoles have similar architecture apart from that esram on Xbone. Strange that the engine struggles on xbone.

There is nothing strange about it.

A deferred rendering engine with huge amounts of MRT is the worst case scenario out of the common methods of rendering for the Xbone.

The Xbone has 32MB of eSRAM which is the fast stuff where the framebuffer is held. But if you have huge MRTs then the 32MB isn't big enough to hold them all within the eSRAM at high resolutions.

 

[EGM1966]

Wow. But both consoles have similar architecture apart from that esram on Xbone. Strange that the engine struggles on xbone.

They're actually not that similar hence the issue. They each have 8GB of memory but very differet memory and the ESRAM is there because of that and creates a particular issue for this engine.

 

[Hasney]

Wow. But both consoles have similar architecture apart from that esram on Xbone. Strange that the engine struggles on xbone.

Yup and that's the issue. The GDDR5 is quick enough to deal with it. See here for an explanation:

http://gamedevelopment.tutsplus.com/articles/forward-rendering-vs-deferred-rendering--gamedev-12342

It requires high bandwidth. You're sending big buffers around and old video cards, again, might not be able to handle this. There is no workaround for this, either.

 

[bombshell]

Xbox One 7

Spoiler

20p

- PS4 1

Spoiler

080p

.

 

[user_nat]

Pretty poor effort on the Xbone. Particularly since its not the best looking sports game around to start with.

 

[ambar_hitman]

They're actually not that similar hence the issue. They each have 8GB of memory but very differet memory and the ESRAM is there because of that and creates a particular issue for this engine.

Yup and that's the issue. The GDDR5 is quick enough to deal with it. See here for an explanation:

http://gamedevelopment.tutsplus.com/articles/forward-rendering-vs-deferred-rendering--gamedev-12342

OK thanks for information. Very helpful.

 

[coastel]

Xbox One 7

Spoiler

20p

- PS4 1

Spoiler

080p

.

Ouch and this game really should be 1080p on both, screw that last gen feel.

 

[kitch9]

Wow. But both consoles have similar architecture apart from that esram on Xbone. Strange that the engine struggles on xbone.

Yes, double the ROPs, GDDR5, 40% more shaders means absolutely nothing.

So similar.

 

[Conduit]

Yes, double the ROPs, GDDR5, 40% more shaders means absolutely nothing.

So similar.

Yep, texture and pixel fillrate are also similar.

 

[Gurish]

Yes, double the ROPs, GDDR5, 40% more shaders means absolutely nothing.

So similar.

Still, this is very unusual, other games especially recent doesn't have such a gap, this is more on Konami than the hardware.

 

[benny_a]

Yes, double the ROPs, GDDR5, 40% more shaders means absolutely nothing.

So similar.

The only difference in the architecture that you listed as the GDDR5, but not because of the RAM type but because of the implication.

Double the ROPs has nothing to do with the architecture.

Still, this is very unusual, other games especially recent doesn't have such a gap, this is more on Konami than the hardware.

Other games make other architectural decisions. This one doesn't play nicely with Xbone.
It's not like every single game engine or rendering approach is exactly the same and the only reason it's being chosen is because Konami hates the Xbone.

Microsoft is just as much at fault than Konami. They could have designed a better system that plays better with games that use that kind of rendering approach.

 

[Jack cw]

I think both football games need to step up their game.

Especially the crowd and the stadiums should be even more atmospheric. Both games feel like pretty PS3 games. I want more action. More detail.

Maybe I just want too much

Honestly, I'm just glad they hit the gameplay right. Its been a long time since we had a decent football game.

 

[dannethmps]

wow, when you look at some of them shots next to each other.

 

[big_z]

I have a feeling this will be the norm for fox engine games until they refine the engine more. The difference between the console and pc version of ground zero is massive so I hope its a sign that the engine has improved.

PES imo looks like a last gen game on both systems simply being rendered at different resolutions.

 

[Blablurn]

Honestly, I'm just glad they hit the gameplay right. Its been a long time since we had a decent football game.

Bu what about dem Gigaflops????

 

[Kuro]

Good to see they actually focused on the PS4 version instead of making it a port like Ubisoft does. They probably could have squeezed a higher resolution out of the One though.

 

[Gurish]

The only difference in the architecture that you listed as the GDDR5, but not because of the RAM type but because of the implication.

Double the ROPs has nothing to do with the architecture.


Other games make other architectural decisions. This one doesn't play nicely with Xbone.
It's not like every single game engine or rendering approach is exactly the same and the only reason it's being chosen is because Konami hates the Xbone.

Microsoft is just as much at fault than Konami. They could have designed a better system that plays better with games that use that kind of rendering approach.

But couldn't they design the game around those limitations? I'm not expecting parity obviously but you gotta admit PES isn't suppose to be too demanding and XB1 should do better than that, FIFA looks better and runs at 1080P/60 FPS on XB1, there is no excuse for that to Konami.

 

[Sanpei]

Game engine sucks...

 

[Kuro]

But couldn't they design the game around those limitations? I'm not expecting parity obviously but you gotta admit PES isn't suppose to be too demanding and XB1 should do better than that, FIFA looks better and runs at 1080P/60 FPS on XB1, there is no excuse for that to Konami.

Titanfall was almost exclusive and was 792p with dips. Maybe Konami valued perfect 60fps over resolution and that's all they could manage on the One with the size of their team. I'm sure they focused more on the PS4 considering PES sells much better on Sony platforms.

 

[Duxxy3]

This is all on the fox engine.

 

[benny_a]

But couldn't they design the game around those limitations? I'm not expecting parity obviously but you gotta admit PES isn't suppose to be too demanding and XB1 should do better than that, FIFA looks better and runs at 1080P/60 FPS on XB1, there is no excuse for that to Konami.

No, FOX Engine is more modern than what FIFA does.

That is the excuse. The excuse is that they don't want to use a rendering approach that was thought up over 8 years ago.

 

[TheVampire]

The crowd on the Xbox One version looks PS2 like.

 

[Black Mantis]

I think both football games need to step up their game.

Especially the crowd and the stadiums should be even more atmospheric. Both games feel like pretty PS3 games. I want more action. More detail.

Maybe I just want too much

Totally agree, though PES also needs to sort out the online component too. It really could have beaten FIFA to a pulp this year, but online and terrible presentation hold it back as usual. Still the better gameplay though, so hopefully they can concentrate on the other stuff for PES 16.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

This is all on the fox engine.

All on the fox engine? Surely we have to give Xbox hardware some share of the blame. However big or small that share may be.

 

[Hasney]

But couldn't they design the game around those limitations? I'm not expecting parity obviously but you gotta admit PES isn't suppose to be too demanding and XB1 should do better than that, FIFA looks better and runs at 1080P/60 FPS on XB1, there is no excuse for that to Konami.

Not really. PES needed a brand new engine and Konami happened to have one knocking around, so it made sense to use it. Unfortunately, the Fox Engine was designed around having a lot of memory bandwidth to play around with as the deferred rendering model requires that, but it has a lot of benefits as outlined in the article I linked to above, especially with lighting as shown on Ground Zeroes. It's very likely that they designed this before they saw what the design of the XB1 was going to be as they didn't go around and talk to devs early on like Cerny claims Sony did. So they knew what the PS4 approach would be, but not the XB1. Judging by that GDC talk in 2013 and how the engine was pretty much complete at that point, it would all point to that being the case.

If they went with making another brand new engine, we'd still be waiting. If anything sucks (and I'm not saying anything does, just pointing out where the issue lies), it's with the XB1 memory layout being very unambitious and possibly even backwards thinking. I actually think the DDR3 and tiny amount of esRAM is going to hold back a lot of 3rd party games on all formats.

 

[Dictator93]

Still, this is very unusual, other games especially recent doesn't have such a gap, this is more on Konami than the hardware.

Dat Gbuffer size.