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[CouchMaster]

I don't have a big friendlist so that might indeed be why I never seen the stuttering.

Yep, everyone I asked who had the same issue said they have large friends list (aprx 500+), most of them being in my own list. So we all made an alt PSN ID and added each other plus guys who only play PES, keeping it under 50 and its been perfectly smooth. This is how we're playing it until Konami acknowledge and fixes the issue.

Again, did you try reducing the MTU on the console network settings? It seems to be the culprit as if your router MTU is only 1500, it can cause issues with some features of the PS4 in general. Somethings even in the home screen (bar bloody messages) are snappier since I changed that as well, especially with loading friends avatars.

Tried it, didn't help. PSN did get snappier though so at least that's something.

 

[Mr Moose]

You need software to fit the hardware, not the other way round. The hardware is fixed, software isn't.

It's fine on PS4, so again, hardware problem.

Weren't people talking before launch of the systems saying the Xbox One wasn't going to be able to handle deferred rendering properly because of the eSRAM? So it's hardly something new.

 

[Azdoune]

I'm not the biggest Fifa fan but visually in no way are the visuals trash. PES has some decent faces, but lacks the visuals and presentation offered in Fifa ie kits, stadiums, pitch texture, fans in the stadium etc.

Visual présentation is way better on pes this year..
The only thing you can blame is a lack of licences.

Just watch the champions league présentation you'll see..

 

[Hasney]

It's no where near enough more detailed to make up the difference in resolution.

The engine is clearly designed in such a way that it doesn't run well on the X1 hardware. That's an engine problem, clearly shown by the fact that many other engines run just fine on the X1.

The software should be designed to work well on the hardware provided, not the other way around.

I would argue that the hardware should be designed with modern design principles in mind rather than holding back software. This type of rendering has been doable for years on PC with GBs of GDDR5 at its disposal and it's only gotten more productive as cards have gotten better.

While its quite clear that PES isn't using the full potential, it's more efficient to be using the one in-house engine they have. Who knows, they might be able to turn off some of the lighting features it's not using as it gets more efficient going forward. But they couldn't even get the engine fully up to speed for PC, so resources were clearly strained to get a yearly release out too.

Yep, everyone I asked who had the same issue said they have large friends list (aprx 500+), most of them being in my own list. So we all made an alt PSN ID and added each other plus guys who only play PES, keeping it under 50 and its been perfectly smooth. This is how we're playing it until Konami acknowledge and fixes the issue.



Tried it, didn't help. PSN did get snappier though so at least that's something.

Yay! At least there's one thing though. maybe we should all add Konami as friends so they can see the issue too.

 

[CambriaRising]

Well, let's not pretend there is no 1080p60 game on Xbone. I don't say forward+ is the ideal solution but there are ways to achieve 1080p60 on Xbone as other devs already showed.

If forward+ would have gotten them up to 1080p/60fps, how come the game you cited only runs at 30fps?

It's the hardware. The bandwidth just isn't there.

 

[Chobel]

I used it because they are devs who actually talked about it. I am quite sure Turn10 used it, too.

Turn10 used forward rendering in Forza 5.

 

[Nyx]

Yep, everyone I asked who had the same issue said they have large friends list (aprx 500+), most of them being in my own list. So we all made an alt PSN ID and added each other plus guys who only play PES, keeping it under 50 and its been perfectly smooth. This is how we're playing it until Konami acknowledge and fixes the issue.

Who has 500+ friends? ;-)

I have 28 or something haha.

 

[jem0208]

It's fine on PS4, so again, hardware problem.

Many other games are fine on the X1.


The fox engine is designed in a way that it doesn't work well on the Xbox, they should have designed it in such a way that it did. Like all the other engines everyone else uses.

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

Nope! I think that Fox Engine use deferred rendering and Xbone has a problem with that. Deferred rendering is much more demanding than forward rendering.

Quick, someone tell 4A so they can downgrade Metro's resolution.

 

[Mr Moose]

Many other games are fine on the X1.


The fox engine is designed in a way that it doesn't work well on the Xbox, they should have designed it in such a way that it did. Like all the other engines everyone else uses.

How many games on the Xbox One use deferred rending @ 1080p/60fps?

 

[CambriaRising]

Many other games are fine on the X1.


The fox engine is designed in a way that it doesn't work well on the Xbox, they should have designed it in such a way that it did. Like all the other engines everyone else uses.

They should have expected the next generation console from Microsoft, creator of DirectX, to not be (fully) compatible with a rendering method pioneered 8 years ago?

Also, aren't you one of those guys who doesn't see resolution differences? You got 60fps here, rejoice bro.

 

[Chobel]

Many other games are fine on the X1.


The fox engine is designed in a way that it doesn't work well on the Xbox, they should have designed it in such a way that it did. Like all the other engines everyone else uses.

And many games on XB1 are not 60 fps open world games with dynamic lighting.

 

[Hasney]

Many other games are fine on the X1.


The fox engine is designed in a way that it doesn't work well on the Xbox, they should have designed it in such a way that it did. Like all the other engines everyone else uses.

Like I said earlier, the FOX engine was being developed before we even knew the XB1 specs and probably even they knew. They were probably caught off guard that a console released in 2013 used design philosophies rooted in the past.

 

[c0de]

If forward+ would have gotten them up to 1080p/60fps, how come the game you cited only runs at 30fps?

It's the hardware. The bandwidth just isn't there.

Wait, what? This is an odd comparison and you don't seem to understand. FH2 was intentionally made 1080p30 because of other reasons: computational power. As with Forza 4 on 360 was 60fps and FH1 was 30fps.
If PS4 has so much more bandwidth, why isn't DC 60fps?

 

[cyberheater]

Garbage hardware.

Other devs seem to be able to squeeze 900p and 1080p out of it.

 

[c0de]

Turn10 used forward rendering in Forza 5.

Misread comment deleted
Edit: Ok, thanks for the confirmation.

 

[NHale]

Many other games are fine on the X1.


The fox engine is designed in a way that it doesn't work well on the Xbox, they should have designed it in such a way that it did. Like all the other engines everyone else uses.

So in your mind software developers should always develop to the lowest common denominator just because there is one piece of hardware that can't handle their vision for their new engine?

Funny how in your opinion developers should hold back technological improvements because of the console beta tested in the future.

 

[CambriaRising]

Wait, what? This is an odd comparison and you don't seem to understand. FH2 was intentionally made 1080p30 because of other reasons: computational power. As with Forza 4 on 360 was 60fps and FH1 was 30fps.
If PS4 has so much more bandwidth, why isn't DC 60fps?

They chose to make Driveclub look better in lue of 60fps. It's like the same reason FH2 is 30fps. Why are you deflecting?

Other devs seem to be able to squeeze 900p and 1080p out of it.

Not using 60fps and deferred rendering methods. Unless you want to point me toward one.

 

[Hasney]

How would this be possible when users here say the bandwidth isn't sufficient for this?

No, we're saying the bandwidth isn't sufficient for deferred rendering, not forward.

 

[Nestunt]

PS4 version still has annoying stuttering moments during gameplay because of connection to PSN (if you disconnect the console it becomes fine, but not if you only disconnect from PES servers, so its Sony fault in some way)

 

[Chobel]

How would this be possible when users here say the bandwidth isn't sufficient for this?

Not sure what you mean? Forward rendering uses less bandwidth (generally of course) than deferred rendering.

 

[c0de]

They chose to make Driveclub look better in lue of 60fps.

And you don't assume this for Forza Horizon 2? Why not?

 

[Malcolm9]

PS4 version still has annoying stuttering moments during gameplay because of connection to PSN (if you disconnect the console it becomes fine, but not if you only disconnect from PES servers, so its Sony fault in some way)

How is that a Sony fault? Isn't it more the issue that the game is wanting to "establish communications" during a match, that's down to Konami.

 

[Mr Moose]

And you don't assume this for Forza Horizon 2? Why not?

Horizon 2 is open world would be my guess.

 

[c0de]

Not sure what you mean? Forward rendering uses less bandwidth (generally of course) than deferred rendering.

I misread, look above

 

[jem0208]

So in your mind software developers should always develop to the lowest common denominator just because there is one piece of hardware that can't handle their vision for their new engine?

Funny how in your opinion developers should hold back technological improvements because of the console beta tested in the future.

No, I think they should try and maximize the potential of all the hardware.

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

Not using 60fps and deferred rendering methods. Unless you want to point me toward one.

Metro Redux is 900p (912 actually) and 60fps on the Xbone. 4A are tech gods though, and have been making "next-gen" games for years.

 

[NHale]

PS4 version still has annoying stuttering moments during gameplay because of connection to PSN (if you disconnect the console it becomes fine, but not if you only disconnect from PES servers, so its Sony fault in some way)

As someone deeply affected with this issue with my main account, how is that Sony fault if no other game has this problem and if you play with an account with less than 50 friends it doesn't stutter?

Also the problem occurs everytime when you estabilish connection to Konami's servers to store the MyClub coins even during the match.

 

[Suzzopher]

PS4 version still has annoying stuttering moments during gameplay because of connection to PSN (if you disconnect the console it becomes fine, but not if you only disconnect from PES servers, so its Sony fault in some way)

Nope. If you turn off auto connect to Konami's servers in the PES settings you don't get the issue. The way the game handles the server connections is at fault.

 

[Canis lupus]

Yep, everyone I asked who had the same issue said they have large friends list (aprx 500+), most of them being in my own list. So we all made an alt PSN ID and added each other plus guys who only play PES, keeping it under 50 and its been perfectly smooth. This is how we're playing it until Konami acknowledge and fixes the issue.

I just disconnect from the internet when I play PES.

 

[Hasney]

They chose to make Driveclub look better in lue of 60fps. Why are you deflecting?

They're using multiple rendering solutions as well all in one. Personally, I hate the design choice of 30fps, but they're using deferred for some elements and a tile-based forward renderer elsewhere. I really hope they do a GDC post-mortem at some point, as I would love to know what they've done.

The Order is using a tile-based forward render too as it is allegedly the best solution for materials (I've not done enough reading on tile-based solutions specifically which is why I'm using allegedly, but they probably know a little more than me ), but the compromise in doing so means they have to do 2 passes for each lighting source, which is inefficient. Hence why it looks gorgeous, but probably had to knock it down to that 800p letterbox/30fps to compensate.

And you don't assume this for Forza Horizon 2? Why not?

I don;t doubt that 30fps was a design choice for FH2. What would become the issue with the Forward+ rendering is if they used a lot of lighting, that all needs to sit in the esRAM ready to be used.

 

[c0de]

Horizon 2 is open world would be my guess.

To be clear, this started with "If forward+ would have gotten them up to 1080p/60fps, how come the game you cited only runs at 30fps?"

So he wonders why it only runs in 30fps because it's open world?

 

[Nestunt]

Nope. If you turn off auto connect to Konami's servers in the PES settings you don't get the issue. The way the game handles the server connections is at fault.

Nope

did it and still had the problem

 

[Conduit]

Not sure what you mean? Forward rendering uses less bandwidth (generally of course) than deferred rendering.

Not only the bandwidth is in game, there are also some lightning performance and calculations. Deferred rendering is much more advanced.

Hence why it looks gorgeous, but probably had to knock it down to that 800p letterbox/30fps to compensate.

Again?

 

[Malcolm9]

Visual présentation is way better on pes this year..
The only thing you can blame is a lack of licences.

Just watch the champions league présentation you'll see..

So the stadiums and pitch look better in PES, please, I'm a big fan of PES this year but that's two areas Fifa has it beat.

In terms of the kits I don't mean the licenses, I mean how they actually look. In Fifa, though some player physics are off, the kits themselves actually fit the player models correctly, and move quite realistically, as well as having better texture. In PES there is still a big between the arms/legs in relation to the top/shorts, that really should be better in view.

For me PES needs to step up the visual side of things next year, as well as the presentation side. Try playing offline ML mode and the menus are so basic it's just wrong, the game looked better in those areas a few years back, so it baffles me how Konami can make it look worse.

 

[Suzzopher]

Nope

did it and still had the problem

Then you must be the problem ( a problem on your end not that you personally are the problem ). It works absolutely fine for me (and the vast majority) when this is turned off.

 

[CambriaRising]

To be clear, this started with "If forward+ would have gotten them up to 1080p/60fps, how come the game you cited only runs at 30fps?"

So he wonders why it only runs in 30fps because it's open world?

I guess you didn't see my edit before you responded.

Forward rendering is not the same as Deferred. Deferred offers a lot more advantages and is what engine development is (and should) be moving toward. Next year we are going to start seeing flagship titles that are current gen only and if any of them uses a deferred renderer, expect similar results.

 

[Malcolm9]

Auto connect is not the solution, all that does is choose whether you want to join the PES server or not to play online matches, but the game will still communicate with the server either way.

The best thing to do is go to the Network settings on your PS4, and untick the "Connect to the internet" option.

 

[BigTnaples]

Now that I have my 4K 65", these resolutions are all the more important.


1080p games like Halo MCC, Far Cry 4, GTAV, etc look amazing. Upscale fantastically with clean, crisp images.

Played Titanfall on my XBO and it looks extemely bad in comparison. Muddy, jaggie's abound, and overall last ten like look.

 

[dragonelite]

To be clear, this started with "If forward+ would have gotten them up to 1080p/60fps, how come the game you cited only runs at 30fps?"

So he wonders why it only runs in 30fps because it's open world?

Doesn't horizon 2 also have 4xMsaa?

 

[Chobel]

Anyone knows the disadvantages of forward+ rendering when compared to deferred rendering?

 

[Nyx]

Nope

did it and still had the problem

How many friends do you have on PSN?

edit: maybe you are on PC....

 

[Prine]

Dat shitty Fox Engine. Animation and movement looks better in Fifa - PES still needs to catch up here, based on my playtime with it.

 

[RandyBobandy]

Let's be honest, this is still PES here.

No option files are the bigger crime here, but I have FIFA now so meh

 

[Hasney]

Anyone knows the disadvantages of forward+ rendering?

You have to hold some of the lighting and shadow data in a buffer at all times. In the case of the XB1, that means less overall bandwidth would be being used which stops the DDR3 being such a bottleneck, but you'd have less esRAM overall to play with at all times.

In a deferred environment, you just have in memory what you need to have in memory at that time, hence why it needs more memory bandwidth to work properly.

Let's be honest, this is still PES here.

No option files are the bigger crime here, but I have FIFA now so meh

Heh, I got FIFA at launch and deleted once I got PES. So much more fun to actually play I don't notice the lacking licenses.

I'd stll rather have them than not, so hoping FIFA steps it up on the gameplay front again.

 

[Chobel]

Dat shitty Fox Engine.

LOL! Yeah, right. /s

You have to hold some of the lighting and shadow data in a buffer at all times. In the case of the XB1, that means less overall bandwidth would be being used which stops the DDR3 being such a bottleneck, but you'd have less esRAM overall to play with at all times.

In a deferred enviroment, you just have in memory what you need to have in memory at that time, hence why it needs more memory bandwidth to work properly.

In our modern time where most GPU cards have big VRAM pool, it's not really a disadvantage, no?

 

[Amused]

Dat shitty Fox Engine.

What do you think is shitty about it?

 

[Mohonky]

It's fine on PS4, so again, hardware problem.

Weren't people talking before launch of the systems saying the Xbox One wasn't going to be able to handle deferred rendering properly because of the eSRAM? So it's hardly something new.

Wow if that had been the mentality last gen. Port 360 engine to PS3, hey this PS3, it doesnt like this engine, eh, just turn the resolution down till it works.

Konami have chosen something that only works on one console and have done absolutely nothing to improve the situation on the other. If there has ever been a case for 'lazy devs' this is pretty much it. They wrote the code for one console and just arent bothered to find another way to do it for the other console.

Has there ever been a case of such a large disparity between multiplatform titles?

 

[c0de]

Doesn't horizon 2 also have 4xMsaa?

They do!

 

[Hasney]

Wow if that had been the mentality last gen. Port 360 engine to PS3, hey this PS3, it doesnt like this engine, eh, just turn the resolution down till it works.

They kind of did. There are a lot of awful PS3 ports out there and half the time, they couldn't even turn down the res so it just ran like shit.