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Digital Foundry: Face-Off: PES 2015
- Thread starter ElTorro
- Start date
CouchMaster
Member
I see people are surprised to see one version isn't held back by another like the western multiplatforms.
Either way I wish DF had tackled the issue of massive stuttering due to online connectivity, it renders the game nigh unplayable and Konami isn't even acknowledging the issue.
Either way I wish DF had tackled the issue of massive stuttering due to online connectivity, it renders the game nigh unplayable and Konami isn't even acknowledging the issue.
It may not have happened to them though as it's not happening with all PS4 owners (myself included. hell, it's the first PES game I find to actually be playable online.). They tend to only report what they see rather than what people talk about.
Duxxy3
Member
The fuck??
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
720p on Xbox One. Garbage developer.
CambriaRising
Member
Garbage hardware.
Never had this since day 1. (PS4)
Best netcode of PES since like ever.
And no stuttering in singleplayer also, zero!
I really hope they do find a workaround by Phantom Pain for XB1 because the FOX engine is damn advanced, especially running what it does at 60fps in 1080p on PS4 and I'd rather see it licensed and adopted if Konami are willing to go that route.
That said, at least the DF article thread will be fun if they can't get around it by then.
That said, at least the DF article thread will be fun if they can't get around it by then.
This version is held back by the engine.
Terbinator
Member
They won't due to the rendrring engine which saddens me as an XB1 owner so I'll grab it on PC instead.
I got some stick in the last thread about the Fox engine when I said the worse thing about this - and GZ - is that the games don't even look good enough to warrant the appraoch or gap in resolution, IMO.
It will when cross gen is gone and (more) engines are jumping to deferred rendering. The RAM management of the bone will be the bottleneck then.
I would disagree with that. I can't think of a better looking game that runs at 1080p and a locked 60fps, especially in terms of lightning, than GZ.
You could run it at a higher resolution on XB1 for sure, assuming that you allow the frame rate to take a hit.
I don't think they will, at least for 3rd party games purely because of the XB1, which is a huge shame.
CambriaRising
Member
The proof is in the pudding.
Derpcrawler
Member
It's exactly like PS4, but with smaller GPU and slower VRAM. With same CPU and GPU architecture on both consoles, 28% raw power should translate to usual 900p vs 1080p, not 720p vs 1080p. The engine is garbage.
So if Xbox One hardware is turd, then PS4 is just a bigger turd.
Yes, exactly. It's not about some magical % of power, it's about using advanced rendering techniques that can't fit into a small esRAM cache at 1080p refreshing at 60fps as the bandwidth isn't there. It's a design decision that is likely to hold us back most of the generation for multi-platform games.
The CPU and the GPU could probably render it, but a full deffered rendering solution can't get it to the GPU from RAM fast enough to do so.
Fox_Mulder
Rockefellers. Skull and Bones. Microsoft. Al Qaeda. A Cabal of Bankers. The melting point of steel. What do these things have in common? Wake up sheeple, the landfill wasn't even REAL!
About time, DF.
GHG
Member
We will see how "garbage" the engine is when ground zeros releases on the PC.
Just because an engine doesn't compensate for the xbox one's weaknesses (which could have been avoided had they not prioritised kinnect) it doesn't make it "garbage".
CambriaRising
Member
The problem is with the hardware, as I'm sure others will tell you. The ESRAM cache is too small to render out 1080p with a 60hz refresh using this deferred rendering technique.
Like I said, it isn't the engine, it's the hardware. Expect similar results when The Phantom Pain comes out as well.
Exactly, which is what they did for Ground Zeroes as well.
What?
PES is 720p/60fps whereas Fifa is 1080p/60fps and looks just as good? Clearly the hardware is at fault...
No doubt it must be a coincidence that this goes up a day after people started asking why PES was seemingly the only major title face off DF didn't do this year 
Not really.
Not really.
Chobel
Member
PES 2015 is way better looking than FIFA (at least on PC/PS4).
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Not really. Fifa is pure trash when it comes to visuals and performance.
CambriaRising
Member
A simple google search will tell you that isn't the case. And yeah, it is the hardware's fault.
CouchMaster
Member
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=139653214&postcount=1240
It goes away completely when you disconnect from the internet, but then you lose MyClub mode. Bunch of people reporting this in OT.
when most of the latest games were 900p/1080p? why?
But also a bunch of people that have never seen this, I don't want to be ''that'' guy but people with these problems should check their modem-settings and internet connection first.
Deferred rendering takes a fuck load of bandwidth. While I don't think PES uses the full potential of it, this is now Konamis engine for everything.
http://gamedevelopment.tutsplus.com/articles/forward-rendering-vs-deferred-rendering--gamedev-12342
It is the engine as games at 1080p show us. Read about forward+ from Playground which was used for Forza Horizon 2.
CambriaRising
Member
Even without reading up on that, you are still talking about bandwidth needed for 30 and not 60 so it isn't a great comparison.
Well the argument is 720/60FPS whereas even some of the 900p games on Xbone aren't 60FPS right?
So you're saying the Xbox One hardware is better then? I don't follow you.
If you think Fifa15 looks as good as this years PES then you are in for a surprise.
PES looks in detail a lot superior thanks to the Fox Engine.
Didn't they already confirm Phantom Pain will do the same as Ground Zeroes and now PES?I mean the 1080p/60fps for PS4 and that other thing for the X1
Its not a fault of the Engine.
This is designed to get the best out of the PS4 which is completely ok.
Look at the sales of PES15(and MGS GZ) - Their main share of buyers is on the PS4.
If it takes to long and to much effort to get the game running on par with the PS4 Version i wouldn't waste time on it either.
And at the end it seems their priority is clearly the steady 60 fps which the X1 doesn't seem to achieve easily in combination with 1080p.Something completely normal in this Gen if the PS4 Version isn't made to avoid debates.
Mr Moose
Member
So you blame the engine because it uses deferred rending rather than forward+? Yeah, hardware problem.
30fps though.
CouchMaster
Member
Yes we did everything and narrowed it down to one possible culprit which is having huge friends list that is active during gameplay. The game runs perfectly fine on your alt PSN ID with exact same network settings connected to exact same modem and ISP, only variable being no friends activity in the background. I wish people would do more research before dismissing as one off case, which it is not.
dragonelite
Member
That is pretty much the standard multiplat resolution independent on frame rate split when its a gpu limited situation. Most devs get this result, so its not that weird people expect a higher resolution then 720p on the Xbox one.
I don't have a big friendlist so that might indeed be why I never seen the stuttering.
Forward+ is good in some scenarios, but a lot of the lighting data then needs to be buffered. With a lot of light sources and shadows, you then have less esRAM to play with whereas a deferred renderer is only loading what it needs when it needs it. It's not going to be the best solution in all cases and engine, although I'm very glad that AMD is trying to come up with techniques like that.
Again, did you try reducing the MTU on the console network settings? It seems to be the culprit as if your router MTU is only 1500, it can cause issues with some features of the PS4 in general. Somethings even in the home screen (bar bloody messages) are snappier since I changed that as well, especially with loading friends avatars.
Or, you know, "vast" if you know how to read.
It's no where near enough more detailed to make up the difference in resolution.
The engine is clearly designed in such a way that it doesn't run well on the X1 hardware. That's an engine problem, clearly shown by the fact that many other engines run just fine on the X1.
The software should be designed to work well on the hardware provided, not the other way around.
Well, let's not pretend there is no 1080p60 game on Xbone. I don't say forward+ is the ideal solution but there are ways to achieve 1080p60 on Xbone as other devs already showed.
Malcolm9
Member
I'm not the biggest Fifa fan but visually in no way are the visuals trash. PES has some decent faces, but lacks the visuals and presentation offered in Fifa ie kits, stadiums, pitch texture, fans in the stadium etc.
Personally Konami could have done more with the game as it looks like a higher res PS3 game, as well as the lighting being quite poor in night games.
PES needs to offer more next year as the game itself is very bare bones in key areas, thankfully the game on the pitch is pretty decent.
You need software to fit the hardware, not the other way round. The hardware is fixed, software isn't.
I used it because they are devs who actually talked about it. I am quite sure Turn10 used it, too.