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[bender]

I'm not even a huge simulation racing fan as most of the genre feels sterile and that's not even an insult as quality of the racing is going to be the draw to these types of games for the vast, vast majority of the audience. Gran Turismo is a little different as the presentation feels like a love letter to the automobile industry and you can feel the admiration towards that industry in every design decision that Kaz and his team makes. That apparent admiration is what makes me, in turn, admire these games so fondly. It's also something Turn 10 has either missed or chosen not to replicate, not that it would be easy for anyone to replicate.

 

[Pharaoh 117]

i remember this guy . he disappeared from the forza scene abruptly

I think he was there when the new Forza was announced, but I might be misremembering it. Back in the day I followed Forza more closely and Dan Greenawalt was a absolute well oiled PR machine. He just repeated the same bullet points over and over again, everything was always "built from the ground up" but in reality things were almost never as great as they hyped them up to be. Never trust T10, they overpromise and underdeliver. When it comes to Forza the Playground team is the real deal.

 

[Truespeed]

That quote was from 2009 when Forza was actually releasing better games than GT. Well it was just GT5 prologue at the time but GT5 disappointed on release anywho

Has he retracted his moronic statements or given back the metaphorical "baton" he took? If not, then his statements still stand to this day.

 

[TTOOLL]

Just finished the video and as expecte GT is the superior game not only in graphics. I haven't played GT7 though because I still haven't got a PS5. I just got a g29 and I'm playing ACC but it feels so barebones even compared to GT Sport, which I played a lot.
Now I'm debating if I wait for the PS5 Pro or not. Can you imagine GT8 running on the PS5 Pro?

 

[Thirty7ven]

Is that an actual quote?

Awhile back I said it was shocking seeing the culture difference between the studios, with the behind the scenes dev vid from Turn 10 being absolutely cringe, and that quote would explain a lot.

Not that it’s true what I’m about to say but the feeling I got was that PD is made of car culture, car history, professional racing fans, and Turn 10 was made up of drag racing fans who watch Fast and the Furious during lunch break.

 

[mansoor1980]

Is that an actual quote?

Awhile back I said it was shocking seeing the culture difference between the studios, with the behind the scenes dev vid from Turn 10 being absolutely cringe, and that quote would explain a lot.

it is real , badass isnt he

made thor look like a bitch back in the day

 

[FrankWza]

Has he retracted his moronic statements or given back the metaphorical "baton" he took? If not, then his statements still stand to this day.

Even Lebron wore 23 as respect to the greatest. Forza/turn10 is no lebron....

 

[nosoynadie22]

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

That quote was from 2009 when Forza was actually releasing better games than GT. Well it was just GT5 prologue at the time but GT5 disappointed on release anywho

forza 2 and 3 were banging, to be fair

 

[skyfinch]

Damn. Maybe they should take a few years (or 6) to regroup, then do a soft reboot and build everything from the ground up.

 

[Connxtion]

Seriously. They surely fucked up and didn't go back finish this part of the track. No excuse for it to look this bad.
I'm a HUGE Forza fan and GT7 definitely looks a lot better than Forza. I don't get it. It's like they are lying about the built form ground up comment. Or, they are just lazy AF. Forza plays pretty damn good though. Can't comment on GT7. Havent played it.

He’s zoomed all the way in, in photomode. Forza doesn’t update the lod when you zoom in, just like Forza horizon. (We had these back then too)

So you get crap like above. Really it shouldn’t have been in the comparison as no one zooms all the way across the track and it’s not representing gameplay or what 99% of users will see.

Same with photo mode, I would have though he would have known that GT always loads in the second highest model when entering photo mode for the players car & higher models if you focus on an AI car. Forza just uses in game models. (Hence AI cars look shit )

But GT7 does look lovely & Forza is a big disappointment this year, I thought we would have got on par with GT7 at least, but nup. In some aspects it bloody worse than Forza 5 ffs

 

[Elysium44]

He’s zoomed all the way in, in photomode. Forza doesn’t update the lod when you zoom in, just like Forza horizon. (We had these back then too)

That isn't why it looks like that. See the pictures I posted subsequently which were also zoomed in from a long way away (you can't start off any closer than from where I did it). Go into the game and try it yourself.

 

[Tomeru]

Dsn is one of the main reasons I always had a hard time playing forza.

 

[sendit]

He’s zoomed all the way in, in photomode. Forza doesn’t update the lod when you zoom in, just like Forza horizon. (We had these back then too)

So you get crap like above. Really it shouldn’t have been in the comparison as no one zooms all the way across the track and it’s not representing gameplay or what 99% of users will see.

Same with photo mode, I would have though he would have known that GT always loads in the second highest model when entering photo mode for the players car & higher models if you focus on an AI car. Forza just uses in game models. (Hence AI cars look shit )

But GT7 does look lovely & Forza is a big disappointment this year, I thought we would have got on par with GT7 at least, but nup. In some aspects it bloody worse than Forza 5 ffs

The real comparison should have been the single most revolutionary thing for a racing game that has a gaping impact across the entire spectrum of gameplay, VR mode.

GT7 VR:


Forza Motorsport VR:

 

[sigrad]

The real comparison should have been the single most revolutionary thing for a racing game that has a gaping impact across the entire spectrum of gameplay, VR mode.

GT7 VR:


Forza Motorsport VR:

Probably but Sorry, not paying $1,500-$2000 to play a racing game.

 

[Auto_aim1]

Guys, we have to give huge credit to the Forza team that created Forza 3 and 4. Without it, Kaz would not have 'evolved' the series. I remember all the GT5 vs FM3 crap in 2009.

GT7 was a culmination of all that they learned from GT5, FM3, FM4, GT6, and Sport.

 

[sigrad]

They used console as the comparison.

That's Laguna Seca right? Someone take a picture of that sign on that track in Forza on Series X in photomode and screenshot it when passing it. I would but I uninstalled FM8 until they fix it and it takes a day and a half to redownload it.. But I remember racing this tracka lot and I don't remember seeing this. And I would watch replays on 1 out of every 5 races.

 

[SimTourist]

Guys, we have to give huge credit to the Forza team that created Forza 3 and 4. Without it, Kaz would not have 'evolved' the series. I remember all the GT5 vs FM3 crap in 2009.

GT7 was a culmination of all that they learned from GT5, FM3, FM4, GT6, and Sport.

Kas stated many times that he doesn't play other racing games and not many games in general. The rest of the team probably does, but he calls all the shots.

 

[Elysium44]

Kas stated many times that he doesn't play other racing games and not many games in general. The rest of the team probably does, but he calls all the shots.

That's probably why GT7's single player is so terrible, and the multiplayer isn't much better. It's a lovingly created car collection, simulation and graphics showcase but I wish he would get someone to explain what a good GAME is like.

 

[T-0800]

That's probably why GT7's single player is so terrible, and the multiplayer isn't much better. It's a lovingly created car collection, simulation and graphics showcase but I wish he would get someone to explain what a good GAME is like.

I'm having lots of fun racing against Sophy AI.

 

[sendit]

That's probably why GT7's single player is so terrible, and the multiplayer isn't much better. It's a lovingly created car collection, simulation and graphics showcase but I wish he would get someone to explain what a good GAME is like.

Agreed. Kaz is almost fossil fuel. He needs to retire and hire Chris Esaki and Dan Greenawalt to build GT from the ground up.

 

[Mung]

Very different results from what the pre launch PR would have made you believe.

GT7 is just an exquisite game. It's gone top of my psn ps4 and ps5 combined most played list. Playing it in VR feels like a 25 year old dream come true for me. And racing against Sophy is just brilliant.

 

[Elysium44]

I'm having lots of fun racing against Sophy AI.

The menu books and chase the rabbit racing is out of the Ark.

 

[Elysium44]

Agreed. Kaz is almost fossil fuel. He needs to retire and hire Chris Esaki and Dan Greenawalt to build GT from the ground up.

You jest but they have more in common than you might think. From a gameplay perspective they're all stuck 25 years in the past. At least Kaz knows about cars and has standards whereas the other two are just grifters and snake oil salesmen.

 

[GHG]

9 out of 10 of these games launched onto a subscription service.

 

[Blood Borne]

Even without the game looking so much better, compare the PowerPoint slides of the menus in Forza. It’s absolutely devoid of personality.

There’s no joy, no brand history, no clips of historical events of cars, no 3D pre-rendered gorgeous locations to see your new car coming through, no love.

Navigating GT7 is always an endless fun activity with their events, missions, licenses, the beautiful garage, all that with some elegant jazz in the background while you’re sitting at a cafe with world renowned car experts. And then you can just initate a new race in the blink of an eye with the 0 loading times to check your newly acquired legendary car.

These games are just world apart in their quality.

As I said before, it’s Sony’s best game this generation, neck and neck with Returnal.

Dude, you get it.

 

[tommib]

Dude, you get it.

Love MF Doom!

 

[sigrad]

Series X 4k 60fps mode Gameplay. Also the same in RT mode.

Don't these pics prove that the WetherTech sign photo from DF is incorrect/flawed.

 

[sigrad]

9 out of 10 of these games launched onto a subscription service.

Who cares. I played FM8 on Gamepass. A buddy of mine bought it.

 

[Skifi28]

Don't these pics prove that the WetherTech sign photo from DF is incorrect/flawed.

If the game has a broken LOD system, it's not DF's fault. Perhaps they should improve it .

 

[Elysium44]

9 out of 10 of these games launched onto a subscription service.

I don't understand game pass. My most played game on Xbox is Forza Horizon 4, I paid £25 for it in 2018 and I still play it regularly. If I'd instead subscribed to game pass I'd have paid £300+ by now.

 

[Senua]

I don't understand game pass. My most played game on Xbox is Forza Horizon 4, I paid £25 for it in 2018 and I still play it regularly. If I'd instead subscribed to game pass I'd have paid £300+ by now.

I think the idea is to play more than one game on it

 

[Skifi28]

I think the idea is to play more than one game on it

 

[Elysium44]

I think the idea is to play more than one game on it

Most games on it are shite, hence just buying the good ones seems more logical.

 

[Senua]

Most games on it are shite, hence just buying the good ones seems more logical.

That's a bit harsh but yea I bought FM23 so I could play it regardless of sub but I instantly regretted it lol

 

[Elysium44]

I am thankful to game pass for being able to trial FM23 for £1!

 

[fatmarco]

I just want to say Wartales is great, so there's that.

Also who ever is the lead of Forza's shaders ... I mean seriously, enough's enough. Forza Motorsport's vehicles have looked a gen behind Horizon, GT, and Driveclub for far too long. Ray Tracing was a total mistake.

And as far as trackside details, how do they not build these racetracks by watching real footage of the track from the perspective of real cars? I just don't understand how tree lines could be so misplaced when there's so much reference to work from even from a cursory google maps search.

 

[VectorVictor]

Forza looks better by quite a lot here

Yup, depends on what you’re looking at though. But the launch bugs didn’t help…

Let me guess GT7 has better car models, Forza has better reflections in gameplay aka Ray tracing especially on pc and better RTAO + lighting , Better Trees/Crowd/Clouds/Rain and tracks details ?

Now i will watch the video to see if i'm right about one thing!

Edit

The analysis in this post is better than just about the entirety of the DF video.

That's probably why GT7's single player is so terrible, and the multiplayer isn't much better. It's a lovingly created car collection, simulation and graphics showcase but I wish he would get someone to explain what a good GAME is like.

I own both and played both since the PSX/Xbox days. Grab Turismo has *always* had horrible single player gameplay and track AI, and instead relied on an oversized livery and car porn. Multiplayer has been a hot mess too until GT7, and instead of a mess it’s just…boring now…pretty, but shallow.

Forza has the much better single player gameplay and AI, and online gameplay is much better too. But the whole GaaS thing is crap and detracts from the game as a whole. And the bugs with visuals don’t help.

Also, it looks like this comparison may have been done prior to the recent lighting and visual updates Turn 10 recently introduced.

I plan on getting VR for PS5 this year (unless I should get Meta Quest 3?) so I’ll try that out with GT7, and that’s cool they added that mode for free. But while GT7 May look better in photo mode, last time this isn’t Gran Turismo or Forza Snap, and Forza is still the better experience.

 

[BigLee74]

I don't understand game pass. My most played game on Xbox is Forza Horizon 4, I paid £25 for it in 2018 and I still play it regularly. If I'd instead subscribed to game pass I'd have paid £300+ by now.

You can’t be that dense….can you?

 

[PharaoTutAnchAmun]

I just had a look on PC, you're right, it doesn't look anything like as bad as DF made it look. Unless it improved since the recent patch.

Yeah lets compare GT7 on Playstation and Forza Motorsport on PC ( and not on Xbox).who you are trying to fool? You failed miserable

 

[Elysium44]

Yeah lets compare GT7 on Playstation and Forza Motorsport on PC ( and not on Xbox).who you are trying to fool? You failed miserable

I love how friendly this forum is, people are so quick to be fucking rude.

This forum is funny. I post a pic of Forza's grass and get a three month warning for 'shitposting'. I post a pic of Forza's Laguna Seca sign and get accused - presumably - of being a Forza fanboy. This place is ridiculous at times.

 

[Elysium44]

You can’t be that dense….can you?

Ever thought about putting your point across without being rude? In fact you're the dense one (if we're throwing insults around) because you've not grasped the point of my post and instead jumped on its literal meaning rather than taking time to engage your brain and think about the point I was making. I am not going to waste time explaining it to you.

 

[Killer8]

He’s zoomed all the way in, in photomode. Forza doesn’t update the lod when you zoom in, just like Forza horizon. (We had these back then too)

So you get crap like above. Really it shouldn’t have been in the comparison as no one zooms all the way across the track and it’s not representing gameplay or what 99% of users will see.

Same with photo mode, I would have though he would have known that GT always loads in the second highest model when entering photo mode for the players car & higher models if you focus on an AI car. Forza just uses in game models. (Hence AI cars look shit )

But GT7 does look lovely & Forza is a big disappointment this year, I thought we would have got on par with GT7 at least, but nup. In some aspects it bloody worse than Forza 5 ffs

The biggest problem with the LOD is that it also affects replays too:

(1:04:08 in the DF video)

I would say that 99% of people will notice this because it occurs in dozens of circumstances across several tracks - all it takes is a bad combination of visible trees, a low camera angle, at a specific corner, and it sticks out like a sore thumb.

 

[rofif]

Anyone seen that?
impressive

 

[BigLee74]

Ever thought about putting your point across without being rude? In fact you're the dense one (if we're throwing insults around) because you've not grasped the point of my post and instead jumped on its literal meaning rather than taking time to engage your brain and think about the point I was making. I am not going to waste time explaining it to you.

Oh do fuck off. You know exactly what you’re playing at, but I’m not pandering to your crap.

You make no point. Here is you:

‘I don’t understand Gamepass’

*starts calculating how much FH4 would cost him if he paid for it in Gamepass subs*

Claims 300 dollars instead of 25.

Even my left testicle isn’t that stupid. I therefore don’t think even you are, but are in some kind of wind up mood instead.

And to top it off, your crap is in a thread that has nothing to do with FH4 or Gamepass.

 

[John Wick]

Regardless of that, the two machines have proven to be similar in terms of raw power. Optimization will only get you so far, regardless of cross gen.

No one machine was touted by a certain crowd as being more powerful. Especially the 12 TF number. The fact this was built ground up for next gen and came out much later too.

 

[TBiddy]

No one machine was touted by a certain crowd as being more powerful. Especially the 12 TF number. The fact this was built ground up for next gen and came out much later too.

Yes, not a single Sony-fan was touting the PS5 to be more powerful. Not. One.

 

[sendit]

Probably but Sorry, not paying $1,500-$2000 to play a racing game.

Sorry for your loss.

 

[John Wick]

Yes, not a single Sony-fan was touting the PS5 to be more powerful. Not. One.

I don't remember any Sony fan claiming 10tf>12tf? Do you? So your correct.

 

[sendit]

Yes, not a single Sony-fan was touting the PS5 to be more powerful. Not. One.

Can you jog my memory? Did Playstation 5 have a comparable thread:

|OT| - |OT| Xbox Power King Memes

Rather than fill up *every* thread with gloating memes ... let’s just do it here so not every PlayStation fan has to endure the suffering of their personal embarrassment in all places at all times.

www.neogaf.com

The above thread kicked off a generation of positivity.