Unknown?
Member
Yes but Forzas ray tracing is very badly implemented.
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Digital Foundry: Gran Turismo 7 vs. Forza Motorsport (2023)
- Thread starter Insane Metal
- Start date
Pedro Motta
Member
Cube maps in GT7 look better than RT in Forza.
Unknown?
Member
Lol @ anyone saying Forza having better online.
ChorizoPicozo
Banned
I think in real life GT has a healthier and more competitive community.
At least this is my perception from listening to racing content creators.
it seems PC is where the hardcore racing fans are tho
Forza is a very good game. It plays great, looks amazing, feels amazing. Its only issue is that the Gran Turismo franchise exists, is made by a bunch of absolute perfectionist freaks, and it makes it look second rate.
If Gran Turismo did not exist you will do backflips here. It is just that Gran Turismo is polished like nothing else in this industry outside mainline Nintendo AAA games.
If Gran Turismo did not exist you will do backflips here. It is just that Gran Turismo is polished like nothing else in this industry outside mainline Nintendo AAA games.
diffusionx
Gold Member
The new Forza is shabby by the series' own standards, though. I don't know what they even spent six years doing, whereas at least with GT7 you can see what they did to build on GT Sport. The game should be so much better. Turn 10 was once a very reliable dev, every other year, like clockwork, taking advantage of new hardware with a very solid game. It was a long time ago, but Forza 3 and 4 showed up GT5. But I don't know what happened here.
edit: I watched this video which goes into a lot of detail about the game's issues and I think does a good job.
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blue velvet
Member
There's RT in the game except during gameplay. Replays, Scapes, in game photomode, menus, and cinematics have RT.
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
But I thought series S holds back next gen, according to gaf. Doesn't that mean forza was a cross game game too? Not to mention they had low end pc spec to deal with as well, something gt7 didn't have to deal with at all.
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tommib
Member
And from what we’ve seen RT in Forza looks worse than the reflections in GT during gameplay. RT is inaccurate and super low res. It was a marketing selling point that turned out to be a nothing burger.
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Roger Rabbit
Member
I prefer the racing in Forza. A free race with four different classes of cars around a tiny track. Absolute bliss. Does GT have multi-class free races?
Doctor Hades
Member
As pointed out on the Forza forums, the same thing existed in FM7. More proof the game isn't rebooted, it's copy and pasted.
Also even the font is wrong. I've spent hours making liveries in FH4 painstakingly making letters accurate rather than just using one of the built-in fonts which looks similar, because it looks better that way. Turn 10 don't even need to use a clumsy livery editor like that, they will have tools which make designing in-game models fast and easy but they are so lazy they still cut corners like this.
"Weclcome"? What the heck!?!?!?!?!
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SimTourist
Member
Yeah the reflections are not that noticeable in the first place, sometimes you can spot the guy behind you in your rear bumper but that's it really. I wish they had RT shadows instead, the shadow pop-in and the shadow map cascades are pretty noticeable.
diffusionx
Gold Member
this is your game on Bangalore contractors
skyfinch
Member
Guess it really depends on the choice of paint, time of day. And most importantly, what you're playing on.
Been playing Forza Series X on performance raytracing since launch, and never saw the ai cars reflecting in the back of the car. Found this video at random and surpised how visible the reflections are on the cars. But he also has a powerful pc. Guess the Series X downgraded reflections quite a bit.
But you're right. I'd rather have raytraced gi and shadows. Reflections might be ok if they had some city tracks.
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ShakenG
Member
Bet that guy walked around having constant orgasms
That car would have sounded incredible underneath.
John Wick
Member
Nice try but wasn't quite the win you were looking for but I guess desperate times desperate measures for Xbox.
GT7 crossgen
Series S>PS4 unless you think PS4 is more powerful than the 4TF RDNA2 full specs Series S according to Riky???
Low end PC??? What PC with PS4 specs is running Forza Motorsports???
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
Build from the ground up ®. (this sign was also misspelled in Forza Motorsport 7).
Bingo!
skit_data
Member
Some very interesting further input here
Edit: Damn, 10 TB of source files just for that video. Really puts into perspective the logistical difficulties in making a comparison video that length.
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Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
On pc the RT effects are alot better than on console. After patch 2.0 the RT reflections got a massive boost in clarity, sharpness, more reflective surfaces and longer reflection distance. And after patch 3.0 the RTAO is also further improved.
BigLee74
Member
PharaoTutAnchAmun
Member
This has nothing to do with this topic Forza M against GT7 acordding to Digital Foundry.
When you want to discus that make a new topic
Senua
Gold Member
It does, just click the play buttonThis has nothing to do with this topic Forza M against GT7 acordding to Digital Foundry.
When you want to discus that make a new topic
nowhat
Member
You know, the title on a Youtube thumbnail can fit only so much text. The video is timestamped. Try playing it?This has nothing to do with this topic Forza M against GT7 acordding to Digital Foundry.
When you want to discus that make a new topic
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I dont know wtf he sees in FH5. Saying it stomps on FM8 is ridiculous. FM8, at least on PC, has this absolutely gorgeous look that makes FH5 look last gen at best. The lighting gap alone is massive. You add in weather and night time racing and its not even close.
Skifi28
Gold Member
I must have been playing a different game, looks barely passable. Lighting especially is the worst part of the game along with image quality/ghosting.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
you play on consoles?
Skifi28
Gold Member
PC version, 1440p. Switched from dlss quality to dlaa, can't say I noticed any improvement.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
isnt dlss broken in this game? Instead of 1440p DLAA, go up to native 4k if you can or 1800p (resolution scale 75%) and disable DLSS altogether. let your tv handle the upscaling.
Im on 3080 ultra settings, no ray tracing, and was able to do native 4k 60 fps ultra settings pretty much all the time. the game looked phenomenal most of the time. The only time it looked mediocre was when there were no cars on screen and i was driving on boring real life tracks. Add in some cloud cover, dusk or dawn lighting, rain, night time, and it looked stunning.
I am listening to these guys (both Alex and John) shit on Turn10 for not having the love of racing, and Im like this is the most fun ive had in a racing game since DriveClub. Stunning weather effects, gorgeous lighting, and an incredible sense of speed. Who gives a shit if it doesnt have a great intro. Does it feel fun to play? Does it look good while racing? Who cares about style in the menus? You are racing 99% of the time.
Neo_game
Member
You are giving way too much credit to these games.
GT7 is a cross gen game that has got something's right. In photo mode it is not even a contest. Forza can look impressive in few condition but in some aspects it has gone backwards. Not a big fan of their modified engine. Their TAA does not help the IQ as well, it gives the game a softer look.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
On pc the game looks alot better than on console after the latest 2 patches. And when it works properly (without the glitches and bugs) it looks really good.isnt dlss broken in this game? Instead of 1440p DLAA, go up to native 4k if you can or 1800p (resolution scale 75%) and disable DLSS altogether. let your tv handle the upscaling.
Im on 3080 ultra settings, no ray tracing, and was able to do native 4k 60 fps ultra settings pretty much all the time. the game looked phenomenal most of the time. The only time it looked mediocre was when there were no cars on screen and i was driving on boring real life tracks. Add in some cloud cover, dusk or dawn lighting, rain, night time, and it looked stunning.
I am listening to these guys (both Alex and John) shit on Turn10 for not having the love of racing, and Im like this is the most fun ive had in a racing game since DriveClub. Stunning weather effects, gorgeous lighting, and an incredible sense of speed. Who gives a shit if it doesnt have a great intro. Does it feel fun to play? Does it look good while racing? Who cares about style in the menus? You are racing 99% of the time.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Its partly that. Partly the fact that the games arent as good. Ive left plenty of games i bought for $60 unfinished. Big ones too like cybperunk, elden ring, starfield to name a few. Id say around 25% of the games i buy i dont end up beating.
But with gamepass, its been 99%. Ive only ever beaten one day one gamepass game. hades. which i beat over 100 times. lol. i just dont think that the games MS has put out in the last 5 years were worth beating. And its not just first party games like Gears, Halo, Forza... its the B games you see listed in that pic. Ive beaten Respawn's Star Wars, and several other EA games on EA Play pro on PC. I recently beat Callisto on PS+. If Re4 or zelda came out on PS+, I wouldve beat them. I just dont think the games MS has put on this service are truly great games that I feel compelled to finish, and im a hardcore gamer that plays A LOT of games. Casual subscribers are even finickier.
Skifi28
Gold Member
I thought the previous patch was supposed to fix dlss. I haven't tried downsampling yet so I might give it a go because there is so much ghosting it's distracting. I don't think that's going to solve lighting though, it just feels flat and washed out on most occasions.isnt dlss broken in this game? Instead of 1440p DLAA, go up to native 4k if you can or 1800p (resolution scale 75%) and disable DLSS altogether. let your tv handle the upscaling.
Im on 3080 ultra settings, no ray tracing, and was able to do native 4k 60 fps ultra settings pretty much all the time. the game looked phenomenal most of the time. The only time it looked mediocre was when there were no cars on screen and i was driving on boring real life tracks. Add in some cloud cover, dusk or dawn lighting, rain, night time, and it looked stunning.
I am listening to these guys (both Alex and John) shit on Turn10 for not having the love of racing, and Im like this is the most fun ive had in a racing game since DriveClub. Stunning weather effects, gorgeous lighting, and an incredible sense of speed. Who gives a shit if it doesnt have a great intro. Does it feel fun to play? Does it look good while racing? Who cares about style in the menus? You are racing 99% of the time.
As for the fun part, the driving is quite well done if you ignore the AI. Unfortunately the campaign design fucking sucks and feels like it was designed by AI when compared to previous entries in the series. And I thought Forza 7 had a bad SP, it's a masterpiece in comparison.
Too few events with too many laps, can't change car per series, there is a specific order to the events for whatever reason instead of just picking the one you want if you have an eligible car. Butchered car list from previous games because "from the ground up", barely anything new other than race cars for which there are no events! There are more UI and loading screens than Starfield just to do a simple race. Can't skip practice when you start an event until after you've started it, it gets really tiring.
I'm venting, but I just can't fathom how this is the single player they made after 6 years. Nobody over there actually played it? I'm trying to have fun since the driving is decent, but they won't let me.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
But what is it thats making the console version look so dated? I stopped watching his video after 30 minutes of track and car detail nitpicking instead of actual rendering discussions, and no one seems to have done comparisons with PC vs console, but id be very interested to know since i played on day and turned off RT almost immediately.
thats fine. I never played FM6 or 7 so this feels fresh coming off of FM5 back at the X1 launch.
As for DLSS, the ghosting is a real problem with fast moving objects. I see it in crows and eagles flying around in Avatar and in pretty much every game with moving objects. You dont want to enable DLSS in a racing game. Dont woryr about TAA ruining the image quality. Its fine. It will look soft but it goes with the game's art style.
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Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
The textures, shadows, ssr reflections, rt reflections, draw distance, ai lod, pom, motion blur quality, aaf and image quality are lower quality on the console version. Only thing that is better is amount of grass and trees in visual mode because on some tracks its bugged on pc.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
ffs. Arent they targeting native 4k in the non-RT mode. why not reduce resolution to get all these features into the xsx version?
Skifi28
Gold Member
Just to be clear, this isn't regular dlss ghosting I'm experiencimg. Think FSR performance or worse, the trails it leaves are insane and doesn't only happen in fast motion. The needle on the car speedometer in interior views is also affected. Seems completely broken.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
The non rt mode is actually alot worse, it has lower quality of everything i mentioned compared to the RT performance and visual mode. Non RT mode is the worst looking mode.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
yeah, i saw those trails in avatar. at first i saw they were a feature added by the devs lol. ive seen them in path traced cyberpunk as well while driving cars. definitely broken. game shipped with insane bugs. I had shader recompilation on every bootup and up to 2 minutes of loading times despite running the game on a 7.5 GBps ssd and 5.0ghz processor.
fantastic. they deserve all the hits they are getting from DF. Phil gave them six fucking years, didnt tie them to last gen consoles, and they still botched the main console versions. Just shocking.
Senua
Gold Member
I completely disagree mate! Forza Horizon 5 is absolutely beautiful, it's not pushing the same RT tech like FM23 is but the artists at PG are clearly a notch above of T10's. PG would NEVER allow the game to look like how FM looks in the car upgrade screen, they look abysmal at times, the wheel lighting is absolutely baffling.
I think the highs of FM are higher than FH5, but they are so few and far between in general play, FM can look absolutely gorgeous at rain and night conditions, even very FH5 esque in clear mid day, but overall? FH5 is way more cohesive.
I hardly play FH5 anymore because I got bored of it and still play FM quite a bit despite its issues, just because it's more my type of game. But everytime I watch some gameplay of FH5 I'm reminded of its beauty
I race the T50 loads on free race because it's an incredible car, but the car just doesn't look as good as it does in FH5, the screenspace AO does a fantastic job without the big performance hit of RTAO and the warm lighting just has a lush, depth to it.
Jigsaah
Gold Member
Gran Turismo 7 looks better in my opinion. Forza has some better environmental interactions, like the tire trap thing. I prefer the crisper, brighter look of GT7. I am curious as to how both feel to play, because when it comes down to it...that's what matters most to me. I have played neither, but when I get a Pro I'll probably compare to my PC as it would probably be unfair to compare Series X and PS5 Pro.
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
It's the best (/ most fun) feeling racing game I've ever played on a controller. And it's not even close. Game has a lot of problems, yes. They just need to double down and improve it like they did with update 2 and 3 moving forward.
And yeah, it's looks great.
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Gamer_By_Proxy
Member
After playing GT7 in VR with a wheel/pedal setup, I'm not even sure why this is even a conversation anymore.
Jigsaah
Gold Member
Oh shit there's VR for it? Does it lose the detail that you get from playing from console?
Gamer_By_Proxy
Member
Still looks great. I don't know the specifics. But PSVR2 is OLED with HDR, doesn't take as much of a hit as you'd think.
nowhat
Member
PSVR 2 support. It uses "foveated rendering" (which is like VRS done right, using eye tracking) so while elements where you are not looking at will look blurry to an outside viewer, the person actually playing the game will not notice it. So for all intents and purposes, it's the real deal with no cutbacks WRT available modes/car count/whatnot.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
And it literally looks like you can reach out and touch the cars. The immersion and detail is phenomenal.
Jigsaah
Gold Member
Man, it's gonna be over $1000 bucks for me to get that experience. I think I'll invest over time maybe. Get the Pro next year....get GT7....play the hell out of it, then eventually get PSVR2. Hey does PSVR2 get a lot of the games coming to like the Quest or Beyond?
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