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[XTERC]

Same here, E3 got me interested in a few Sony exclusives but no point in buying the old one now.

This is a common sentiment when releasing a refresh (latest Samsung / iPhone etc.). From what we've heard they upped the APU due to cost of shrinking the exiting AMD die, instead opting to go to the next generation (at a R&D lower cost?). So, the Neo is a 'slim' replacement with 4K, which is more akin to the XBOX-S refresh.

The whole thing is fascinating to watch.

 

[Gideon_128]

My guess is that the Neo was partly conceived due to concerns that the PS4 would struggle with "proper" unhindered VR games, so I think the Neo is central to the PSVR strategy.

This.

 

[xkramz]

I think this could be really good for Sony. Assuming it's about 4.2 teraflops and uses Polaris it won't be weak by any means when compared to the Xbox Scorpio. And if Sony says fuck it, and tells developers to focus on 1080p 60fps instead of pushing 4K then that would really pay off. I mean it will definitely be weaker but the difference would be like the Xbox One vs PS4, games still look pretty good on both consoles and sometimes achieve the same quality. The PS4 Neo would be 30% weaker than the Scorpio much like the Xbox One is 30% weaker than the PS4.

Also, I don't really think 4K makes as much of a difference as some people think it does. I have a 4K TV and have watched 4K shows and movies and it just looks like a slightly cleaner 1080p. After seeing the clean image quality of games like Doom and Uncharted 4 I think good anti-aliasing is where the focus should be. 4K really doesn't look any better when sitting 5 feet away in a living room. For PCs it's fantastic because you're closer and can see the pixels but not on TVs.

Eh idk man. 4K is a MAJOR improvement over 1080p and I could tell from the get.

 

[Daffy Duck]

Ladies and Gentleman PlayStation NEO....play video.....available to order today.

Drop mic and walk off stage.

 

[RedAssedApe]

Maybe some of those 40m users that already have established PlayStation libraries that don't want to lose them by moving to a different platform?

The incremental approach and increased digital libraries means small differences in performance will not be reasons to switch.

yup...seeing how more and more people seem to be going digital. its going to be harder and harder to switch ecosystems. especially with BC sounding like its going to start becoming standard.

 

[yurinka]

My prediction:

I see a focus to push PS4+PSVR games until PGW or PSX, where they would announce Neo release a week or so after its announcement once the PSVR launch campaign is almost over.

Neo and Scorpio would use 4K mostly for media and upscaled games. The amount of native 4K games in Neo or Scorpio would be smaller than the native 1080p/60fps games in PS3.

The difference between standard PS4/XBO vs Neo/Scorpio would be like choosing Very High or Ultra settings in a PC instead of High in addition to extra resolution and FPS.

Neo and Scorpio would be a mid-gen update. Next consoles to be released after them wouldn't be in a year or so. It would be next gen PS5/Xbox Two, whose games would be full BC with PS4/XBO games and MAYBE their games would be playable in Neo/Scorpio too but running in lower settings.

 

[Prisoner KSC2-303]

I thought they'd wait, as it'll inevitably cannibalise some PSVR sales, but with the One S having UHD BD, waiting perhaps wasn't an option. I already know several 4k TV owners thinking about getting one just for that.

 

[mrklaw]

Eh idk man. 4K is a MAJOR improvement over 1080p and I could tell from the get.

But Scorpio specs are pretty much exactly 4x XB1. 4K is 4x 1080p in terms of pixels. So Scorpio is only as good for 4K as Xb1 is for 1080p - I.e. Not very. So you'll likely still see lots of games be sub-4K and upscaling

 

[LapinAgile]

Not sure why anyone would buy NEO with Scorpio on the way. Sony will likely release a console of similiar strength like scorpio next year or the year after.

If you have a decent PC there is zero reason to get Scorpio. If I can get my Uncharted campaign at 60 FPS I will buy the Neo day 1.

 

[Cheeseman Battitude]

Scorpio seems so powerful that Neo will have to launch this year if it really is just an incremental upgrade.

 

[Stampy]

In my opinion it must release this year for the MS Scorpio announcement to have any sense. They probably knew about it, hence the early announcement.

 

[The God]

If you have a decent PC there is zero reason to get Scorpio. If I can get my Uncharted campaign at 60 FPS I will buy the Neo day 1.

And if you're a console player?

 

[IvanJ]

I also think Neo will launch this year, probably in November on the 3rd anniversary of PS4.
But I think that Neo, as a premium console, is not the focus or the priority to Sony. I think they still expect to sell a crapload of ordinary PS4s, with Neo being probably about 20-25% of the sales. Selling to some current owners who want to upgrade, and to some new owners who don't mind paying $100 more for a graphical bump and extra storage.
Base PS4 will be $299, but for $399 you get a 2TB hard disc and a processing bump.

Basically, the way I see it, Neo is actually closer to XOne Slim in comparison, with the graphical fidelity widening the gap even more between the two.

 

[brawly]

And if you're a console player?

Then you don't have a PC. That was his condition.

 

[WinFonda]

Question: Can I say Microsoft is the first-mover in iterative consoles and Sony was reactionary with Neo?

Scorpio alongside Xbox+Win10 integration looks more planned out and cohesive, while Sony's Neo specs suggests a hasty half-step.

Don't think so. There was nothing particularly well-planned about announcing a Xbox One slim and Scorpio in the same presser.

In the eyes of the average joe, yes, Microsoft may as well have been the initiator of this new cycle since they've officially announced theirs first.

But I don't know that they actually are.

I think Sony was wise to let them announce their hardware update first. They might appear reactionary without any of the drawbacks of actually being reactionary.

In the end I don't think it matters tho, this is a thing they both want so they'll happily play ball. Only way this would've been truly interesting is if one of them decided play it more traditional and just waited until 2018 to announce a full-blown successor.

This is where things get kinda funny and Scorpio could've easily been that 2018 system, as the later they launch the more it starts to take the shape of next-gen console that was pushed up and Neo (if it launches this year) was the planned mid cycle update with proper breathing room from the beginning.

I think Microsoft was caught a little off guard by Sony's early move on this (as we all were,) because it didn't make the most sense for them to do it.

 

[Tratorn]

I think these "mid-gen" upgrades will probably help Sony a bit more than MS, because of the compatibility. Sony has the bigger base, so they have the advantage when it comes to the people that want to upgrade (their main-console). Going from PS4 to Neo to PS5 makes more sense than from PS4 to Scorpio to PS5 for example, since you'll lose your compatibilty to games, services and peripheral that was bought with the 2nd console.
The same is of course the case when current XB1 owners think of upgrading. They'll surely think of this advantage for Scorpio if they decide which next console they want to buy. But Sony has more people in their ecosystem already, so that's a pro for them.

Another factor is that people won't have to wait 5-7 years for the next console of any console manufacturer. So one of the big 3 will only have the spec advantage for a few years. This will stop some people from switching the ecosystem just because they could have some better specs, if they can just wait a "bit" longer to grant full compatibility and stay with their friends.

That all doesn't matter of course for peope who buy several/all consoles or didn't buy any of the current gen consoles yet.

 

[Neifirst]

If Final Fantasy XV looks and runs demonstrably better on Neo, then I'm in this holiday. If not, I'll wait for more NX information and then pick up one or the other in March next year.

 

[Steve McQueen]

My guess. Announcement at Gamescom. launch december.

 

[Synth]

But Scorpio specs are pretty much exactly 4x XB1. 4K is 4x 1080p in terms of pixels. So Scorpio is only as good for 4K as Xb1 is for 1080p - I.e. Not very. So you'll likely still see lots of games be sub-4K and upscaling

Much of the XB1's issues with 1080p owe to it's memory limitations. Which wouldn't apply to Scorpio.

 

[Kayant]

According to this (last slide) they asked 2000 people (50% male 50% female) over 13 with some kind of Nielsen developed online survey.

Kl thanks. Not that bad a sample size given that it's US also I can see why the results were like that.

 

[Ricky_R]

If there's a good enough trade in program then I'll jump. We don't have any Gamestops here anymore though which usually are the ones who adopt them.

 

[gamz]

It has to launch in fall. I can't see Sony letting One S have a foothold in the UHD market.

 

[XTERC]

Releasing the Neo as a premium console is a mistake. Ideally it replaces the existing console at the same price.

 

[PeterLegend]

Sweet need that GT Sport Neo patch

 

[Dinjooh]

My guess. Announcement at Gamescom. launch december.

That isn't consistent with the information we got from Andrews interview with Videogamer.com though:

"The dynamics of the tech industry are such that there's a much heavier emphasis on immediate gratification than there was. A lot of that is to do with how Apple has very cleverly and elegantly managed the 'available now' approach. So yes, that was a slight surprise to me."

http://www.videogamer.com/news/play...y_timing_of_project_scorpio_announcement.html

You should expect the announcement and release to be fairly close to each other. I'd say around a month apart.

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

Releasing the Neo as a premium console is a mistake. Ideally it replaces the existing console at the same price.

That would (rightfully) piss off a lot of people.

 

[a.wd]

I'll probably get the upgraded neo next year. If they're going to go hard on the hardware then I'm in I need a new telly anyway and 4k HDR is looking Plush

 

[LapinAgile]

And if you're a console player?

Wouldn't switch brands, I have too much invested in digital this generation to just drop that to go to something that it seems will track with Windows moving forward. If I can't play the exclusives now, down the road there's a place for me to get them.

 

[Kayant]

Releasing the Neo as a premium console is a mistake. Ideally it replaces the existing console at the same price.

The way I see it is that with PS4 they can drop the price point and offer a lower entry point whilst having Neo has their premium console so their margins are keep the same or better? All in all it helps to address their audience and bring people into their ecosystem.

 

[PdotMichael]

The way I see it is that with PS4 they can drop the price point and offer a lower entry point whilst having Neo has their premium console so their margins are keep the same or better? All in all it helps to address their audience and bring people into their ecosystem.

I would be surprised if the actual Playstation 4 can be produced that much cheaper. Modern consoles have so many fixed costs included that I think they should just replace the old Playstation 4 with the Neo and just try to get rid of the old ones.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Hopefully it does, I don't feel they need to change things because of Scorpio. Neo will have a year head start, price advantage and their are 40+ million gamers are invested in PS4 games this now, whos games will work on the new system too.

Launch it this year, have a console that runs PS4 games with graphical improvements at 1080p/60fps + upscaled to 4K and also helps improve the experience of PSVR, which seems like it will be a very popular choice for VR when it launches.

 

[SpokkX]

I expect annoncent to be

"... and it is available to order NOW"

Andrew House (i think) expressed admiration for Apples "available now" after announcement strategy.

 

[SplitYourInfinities]

That would (rightfully) piss off a lot of people.

Why? I mean, the old model will run the new games so it won't affect the current user base and the potential new owners won't see a price increase. I think it's a good strategy.

 

[Matthew23]

Much of the XB1's issues with 1080p owe to it's memory limitations. Which wouldn't apply to Scorpio.

Even so, why not not use the extra power for higher frame rates, better draw distance, more detailed textures, more NPCs on screen etc? Is a higher resolution worth the trade-off when the majority will be using 1080p TVs? Even on a 4k set is it worth it? Scorpio specs will be able to replicate today's games at 4k, even with some improvements, but higher resolution alone isn't enough to get me excited. I'm hoping MS reconsiders their approach and saves 4k for the next box they put out with hardware better equipped for it.

 

[Oni Jazar]

This is great news. I'm ready to give my PS4 a boost. I've been holding off upgrading the hard drive for neo and it's been killing me trying to choose between all my games.

 

[Bluenoser]

So why would people flock out to buy a neo if the PS4 is cheaper?

Also i'm not talking Neo vs Scorpio rather than Neo vs Neo2/PS5

But there is no Neo vs Scorpio for people who want to play Playstation games. Scorpio is a non-factor, more powerful or not.

That is why I think it will make very little difference on the market- MS can pound their chests all day long about the power of their new console, but when you consider you can play every single game available on an even more powerful PC, and the games themselves (subjectively) are not in the same league as the PS exclusives, who is really going to care in the end?

I think Phil already knows Scorpio is not going to cut into Sony's lead. That's why it's so hard to figure out their strategy here, and it makes me think that they really have no clue what they are doing over there at MS. Just tossing hail mary's at this point.

 

[{insert code here}]

TGS. Timing is just too perfect. FFXV is your showcase title assuming it has a NEO upgrade. TLG and GT Sport should also have NEO upgrades and would serve as great showcases as well.

 

[madmackem]

Be an interesting few months a head, Sony needs to be clever with this pushing two bits of kit around the same time if this is correct is going to take both skill and massive amounts of money for advertising.

 

[Synth]

Even so, why not not use the extra power for higher frame rates, better draw distance, more detailed textures, more NPCs on screen etc? Is a higher resolution worth the trade-off when the majority will be using 1080p TVs? Even on a 4k set is it worth it? Scorpio specs will be able to replicate today's games at 4k, even with some improvements, but higher resolution alone isn't enough to get me excited. I'm hoping MS reconsiders their approach and saves 4k for the next box they put out with hardware better equipped for it.

I imagine many devs probably will (especially if that's what they'll be doing with Neo versions as well). I was just disagreeing with mrklaw's reasoning.

 

[AmyS]

Honestly, with Neo and Scorpio coming out, I don''t see Sony or Microsoft releasing even more consoles during the remainder of this decade--not in 2018 or 2019.

2020-2021 seems the best bet, especially for 7nm. You want next generation graphics, physics simulation on top of native 4K rendering, not to mention next-gen VR. All beyond the limits of Neo/Scorpio's 4-6 TFLOPs, likely CPUs and memory bandwidth. I can totally understand having a mid-cycle upgrade, but neither company is going to constantly release consoles every 2 or 3 years. Every 4 years is more than enough.

 

[{insert code here}]

Be an interesting few months a head, Sony needs to be clever with this pushing two bits of kit around the same time if this is correct is going to take both skill and massive amounts of money for advertising.

Agree, I think the messaging needs to be on point that both systems play all the games and not owning one or the other locks you out of anything.

 

[gamz]

Releasing the Neo as a premium console is a mistake. Ideally it replaces the existing console at the same price.

They can always drop the price of the existing model and sell NEO for 399-449 or something like that.

 

[Obscuritas]

According to the spanish site Meristation, it will be show at Tokyo Games Show. So late September.

Reveal it at the show where nobody will care about it? That would be odd.

 

[SpotAnime]

Well good, because Microsoft has done it's damnest to convince me I don't need the S or a Scorpio unless I have a 4K TV, getting a Neo for better games in 1080p plus better PSVR performance will do just fine this Christmas, thanks.

Everything hinges on the price. $399 or bust.

 

[jm89]

Is this going to to be fully backwards compatible with all physical and digital ps4 games?

 

[madmackem]

Agree, I think the messaging needs to be on point that both systems play all the games and not owning one or the other locks you out of anything.

The first step of that was e3 I guess, they confirmed everything shown was running on baseline ps4. It will still be fun to watch, this is like the first time I can think in the console landscape a company will have two bit of kit launching close to each other so Sony is writing the book as they go along.

 

[Matthew23]

I imagine many devs probably will (especially if that's what they'll be doing with Neo versions as well). I was just disagreeing with mrklaw's reasoning.

Some third party likely will. My concern is first party. With all the 4k marketing MS is pushing they pretty much have to put out 4k games, unless of course they change strategies well before release which presently doesn't seem likely.

 

[starpiercer]

I can see a holiday season release if Sony doesn't care to upgrade the specs besides adding in a UHD player and SS drive. Sony doesn't really care, they and us know that they have this console generation in the bag. I think the only problem that could scare them is if MS gets the jump on them with generation 9 (I doubt MS is thinking about Gen 9).

Both consoles have three years min right? So that means a 2016 release for PS Neo ending in 2019 would be good for Sony.

 

[RowdyReverb]

Is this going to to be fully backwards compatible with all physical and digital ps4 games?

Supposedly

 

[madmackem]

Reveal it at the show where nobody will care about it? That would be odd.

How will no one care about tgs?.