Sword Of Doom
Member
They need to stop doing that!!! It's absurd to lock every feature behind a paywall. If you ask me I'd say they need to remove ads for gold customers cause that's also ridiculous.
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Digital Foundry: the complete Xbox One architects interview
- Thread starter Chobel
- Start date
They need to stop doing that!!! It's absurd to lock every feature behind a paywall. If you ask me I'd say they need to remove ads for gold customers cause that's also ridiculous.
The part of CoreOS is stored on ROS part of nand/nor flash(critical loaders which can be updated ) rest of CoreOS (gameOS,registry and revocation lists) is on different part of nand+ it does have otheros flash part.
On nor consoles gameOS and registry files are stored on HDD, revocation still on flash(i think) and the otherOS part is not there at all.
Also,on nor, there is some extra info about where the rest of coreOS on HDD is.
SwiftDeath
Member
Yeah, This is the only negative I have of the PS4 hardware. Both the Wii U & the Xbox1 support dual-band Wi-Fi, while the PS4 only has 2.4 Ghz. But, Sony will probably upgrade the Wi-Fi chip when they do a hardware revision for the PS4 in the future.
This is why I could see Sony going with Google Hangouts on the PS4 over Skype.
boredandlazy
Member
But where was it actually confirmed that retail PS4's won't support 5Ghz WiFi?
deranged_666
Member
I understand that Microsoft was going for an "all around" entertainment box, and designed the box to shoehorn in all of those things equally. What I don't understand is..why?
The set top/streaming/connected/smart box market is so overcrowded right now. Roku. Tivo. Smart TVs. Smart Blu Ray players. Smart audio receivers. Apple TV. Google TV. Not to mention that regular old cable and satellite boxes are starting to be connected and offer good experiences. I think nearly everything connected to each of my HDMI inputs has a network connection with the ability to run hundreds of apps from multiple content partners. Hell, my Hopper with Sling on Dish Network is incredible in and of itself. For the life of me, I really cannot think of one thing that the XB1 could do that anything else I currently have could not. You could make an argument that the XB1 could do them more fancily, but how is that worth $500?
Maybe I'm just not that bright when it comes to marketing and business decisions and all of that, but, was anyone really asking for another one? I just don't get how making hardware compromises like this is beneficial to the final product. I know people were saying early on that Microsoft was obsessed with being HDMI Input 1 on every TV, but was it really all that worth it to gimp the system in other areas?
The only thing I can really think of is that maybe Microsoft feels that its core consumer, who were kids or teens with the original Xbox, and more matured late teens/early 20s gamers with the 360, are now somehow more "adult" and past the point of being a hardcore gamer? That's the kind of vibe I got from the reveal. "Hey, look at all this NFL stuff!" "You can run your fantasy football league from your TV!" "We're making a full featured Halo movie!". I felt like they were trying to say, "Hey, we realize you're older now, maybe married, maybe with kids on the way, you're working more, and don't really have time to invest in video games any longer. You like coming home and spending your weekends watching sports. Boy, have we got a box for you!"
The set top/streaming/connected/smart box market is so overcrowded right now. Roku. Tivo. Smart TVs. Smart Blu Ray players. Smart audio receivers. Apple TV. Google TV. Not to mention that regular old cable and satellite boxes are starting to be connected and offer good experiences. I think nearly everything connected to each of my HDMI inputs has a network connection with the ability to run hundreds of apps from multiple content partners. Hell, my Hopper with Sling on Dish Network is incredible in and of itself. For the life of me, I really cannot think of one thing that the XB1 could do that anything else I currently have could not. You could make an argument that the XB1 could do them more fancily, but how is that worth $500?
Maybe I'm just not that bright when it comes to marketing and business decisions and all of that, but, was anyone really asking for another one? I just don't get how making hardware compromises like this is beneficial to the final product. I know people were saying early on that Microsoft was obsessed with being HDMI Input 1 on every TV, but was it really all that worth it to gimp the system in other areas?
The only thing I can really think of is that maybe Microsoft feels that its core consumer, who were kids or teens with the original Xbox, and more matured late teens/early 20s gamers with the 360, are now somehow more "adult" and past the point of being a hardcore gamer? That's the kind of vibe I got from the reveal. "Hey, look at all this NFL stuff!" "You can run your fantasy football league from your TV!" "We're making a full featured Halo movie!". I felt like they were trying to say, "Hey, we realize you're older now, maybe married, maybe with kids on the way, you're working more, and don't really have time to invest in video games any longer. You like coming home and spending your weekends watching sports. Boy, have we got a box for you!"
I think MS had an idea in their heads of what Sony was targeting as far as specs, and so they took a gamble and built a console that they thought could not only outperform (or at the very least match) the PS4 from a games (tech) perspective, but could offer additional capabilities as well. Obviously the gamble did not pay off and Sony came well prepared to the party with their hardware. That's my guess anyways.
According to the FCC certifications for both the PS4 Dev Kit (https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/repor...id=AK8DUTD1000) & the retail PS4 (https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/repor...id=AK8CUH100C1), the PS4 only has a 2.4Ghz Wi-Fi radio. On both of those links, it's in the last .pdf file called "FCC 15C Report". It should be on page 5.
Bravo, sir.
LiquidSolid
Member
Who knows. The idea that what we need is more boxes underneath our TVs and more wires going all over the place is baffling to me and a half-assed solution to the idea of providing one box that does everything. In 10 years I think all these pretenders will be long gone and we'll just be left with Smart TVs.
Microsoft has a war plan from the 90s about dominating the living room. Thats the only reason they were happy to eat losses year after year on the Xbox, but unfortunately for them the game has changed. It isn't just that every device out there already does all the media stuff (though it certainly hurts), but everyone has an electronic device in their pocket or bag that does all this in the form of a tablet or smartphone.
Big businesses have this desire to sell one device to everyone, to get the 'blue ocean' market. It can work occasionally, like with the Wii, but the blue ocean market shifts constantly and there isn't a single strategy that works long term. Microsoft felt they had the foothold they needed to pivot to the blue ocean crowd, but forgot that the only audience that even pays attention to console reveals and conferences like E3 is the core.
that gif reminds me of my son.
He mentions a lot of things that are actually common between Xbox One and PS4. The implication is probably supposed to be that the whole description is Xbox One specific, but there's so little of that, buried beyond paragraphs upon paragraphs of architectural commonalities, you could probably boil the whole thing down to a couple sentences.
CadetMahoney
Member
That type of damage control is pretty useless once they continuously lose all face-offs one after the other for the entire gen. It will be non-existent a year in the gen after a good deal of face-offs they can't spin and a clear pattern emerges.
Sword Of Doom
Member
The Wii didn't launch with games like Ryse, Dead Rising 3, and whatever other violent games they have. That is a turn off to the type of audience the Wii attracted. Not to mention they haven't even focused on any games a family can play for example so I really don't understand what their vision is.
Also, if your competing with the Apple Tv's of the world, you might want to reduce the size of your device not to mention the price.
B_Boss
Member
Albert Penello
Member
After the hubbub from my original post, there was an interview between DF and Andrew and Nick. I was at TGS so I wasn't on the call.
After that, we had no idea how he was going to use it. I think after the first interview he mentioned there would be a follow up, which people asked me about. That would have been the "follow up" I was posting about, which I said you'd have to ask DF.
So to be super clear - after the interview, what Richard did was totally his call. We had nothing to do with it.
That help?
TheRealTalker
Banned
Wow good post man brang up most things a lot of us have had issues with
Thank you.
We (or some of us) empathize that you guys can't catch a break, but if I could be so bold, I'd offer you a suggestion: Stop talking about specs and talk about Kinect or AAA games.
A differentiation strategy and talking about your strengths would be a much better option than continuing to highlight your weaknesses.
Best of luck with the launch, sincerely.
Wishmaster92
Member
When Microsoft decides to release the update to make external hdd's usable to install games (hopefully not long after launch). Which would yield better performance/game loading? Installing the game to the internal hdd which is sata 2 capped at 3gbps, or installing the game on an external ssd drive(500mb/s read/write) in the usb 3.0 port which is 5gbps?
That is my son!
Hmmmmm.....It's interesting that in all these PS4/Xbox1 hardware comparison threads on NeoGAF, the Xbox1's chips are always mentioned (especially SHAPE), but we never talk about the ARM chip/SoC that seems to be exclusive to the PS4.
According to an interview that Mark Cerny & a SCEJ exec (Masayasu Ito) had with Japanese website AV Watch back in March, the ARM chip/SoC in the PS4 is a custom chip: http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/series/rt/20130325_593036.html
Muppet of a Man
Member
Holy shit, Batman! Golf clap to the tenth power. Someone give this man a medal. He just won the Internet.
You've literally encapsulated everything I would want to articulate about the whole MS shitfest this time around and people's reaction to it here on GAF. Congratulations!
Fresh Face
Banned
You two are obviously related.
Thanks, that's what I figured.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Wat? It had Red Steel at launch o.0
Sword Of Doom
Member
No you are not rambling bro because this is one of the biggest bloopers MS has made this new generation with their console...this has been my same argument with MS on their new console. I have been a HUGE xbox gamer since the original xbox but this forced kinect add-on purchase is such a HUGE HUGE error they are making with Xbone. It's one reason why i went back to the PS bandwagon..that and the fact that Sony has gotten back to its roots with its new console..the PS4 reminds me of a lot of what Sony was doing with it's original first PS system back in the 90's.
Anyways...MS has no reason to force the Kinect 2.0 with its new console. There has been absolutely ZERO killer titles for it with its current system so why on earth are they trying to force feed us a device that add's to the over all cost of Xbone? It's one of the most baffling things i've seen MS do since their Zune Device.
For example..look at the titles for Xbox 360 Kinect here for U.S. Region http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/Games?Genre=3028
What is there to warrant that extra 100 dollar price for Xbone? Absolutely NOTHING! The Kinect already made its name on xbox 360...if it was a HUGE hit yeah i could see people falling all over the place for it but it brings absolutely zero incentive to own it..so why pay 500 dollars along with tax for Xbone when you can get a PS4 for a 100 dollars cheaper...that gives PS4 owners an extra 100 dollars towards two games! MS dropped the ball, bigtime!
Insane Metal
Gold Member
I just read an analysis on the article, it's pretty interesting, anyone willing to discuss? It's in Portuguese http://www.pcmanias.com/analise-a-segunda-entrevista-da-microsoft-a-eurogamer/
And the older one http://www.pcmanias.com/uma-analise...a-microsoft-realizada-pela-eurogamer-parte-2/, Google translated here
And the older one http://www.pcmanias.com/uma-analise...a-microsoft-realizada-pela-eurogamer-parte-2/, Google translated here
You can't snap on PS4. Snapping is all the rage with young folk.
Thank you guys for the compliments, I just hope individuals like Senjutsu and statham understand why people are still pretty harsh on Microsoft and sometimes jump to conclusions a bit. I don't think it's wrong to like the Xbox One at all after the 180s, but I do think it's silly to try to behave as if everyone is IS mistaken for continuing to be skeptical and critical of Microsoft's approach and PR. Or to wonder where this attitude comes from.
Things haven't completely changed yet for the attitude to disappear, neither in the system details or the PR, and even if Microsoft had totally changed, it would still take many months, if not years, until they fully recovered their trust reserves with gamers.
Things haven't completely changed yet for the attitude to disappear, neither in the system details or the PR, and even if Microsoft had totally changed, it would still take many months, if not years, until they fully recovered their trust reserves with gamers.
It absolutely isn't worthless.
The great majority of console players don't purchase more than one console in the early years of a generation; locking people into their Xbone, Xbox Live sub and whatever library of Xbone games they accrue is vital for Microsoft.
This isn't the PS360 generation where one console had over a year's head start on the competition, PS4 and Xbone are launching essentially at the same time and it's during the launch window/first holiday season that Microsoft has a chance to establish a sufficient foothold to not wither away and die Dreamcast-style this generation. Spreading FUD across the internet, in print magazines, blitzing television and online advertising spaces with ads and throwing hundreds of millions of dollars at shit like the NFL fantasy football program are what will (Might) keep Microsoft in the game.
Sony spent years recovering from the PS3's first disastrous year and that was a console which was as powerful a games machine as the 360, had greater functionality with more built-in features, was the best BluRay player on the market at a time when that mattered, had the history of the Playstation franchise behind it and was backwards-compatible with your library of PS2 games. It took years for Sony to recover from the mistakes of over-pricing and launching late with a weak library of games, despite having an incredibly strong stable of first-party developers which Microsoft simply cannot and will not be able to match.
Now in 2013 Microsoft is launching the more expensive console which offers no increased functionality (Voice command Kinect shit? PS Camera does that, and the dumb dance games too), is significantly weaker as a gaming platform and unlike Sony, Microsoft doesn't have a stable of AAA-quality first-party developers to churn out genre-defining hits. Microsoft even fucked up their plans earlier this year so badly that the old "Get a second job for a PS3" soundbite pales in comparison to the anti-consumer bullshit Microsoft tried to get away with and to this day refuses to apologize for or admit was wrong beyond claiming people "Weren't ready" for it.
Right now, today, Microsoft is relying entire upon one thing: Brand strength. In North America the Xbox brand is strong; Sony has finally reached parity in sales with the PS3 but it's taken what, six, seven years? Xbone may be weak, but Xbox is strong, and if Microsoft is going to remain competitive through this coming generation they need to reach a critical mass of Xbones in living rooms, of dedicated users who cannot or will not switch when the inevitable unfavorable cross-platform comparisons roll in.
Early adopters are how they have to do this and it's through obfuscating facts and blitzing the gaming media with advertising dollars and FUD that they can ride in on the Xbox brand's power and secure enough of a foothold to not crash and burn. Even that doesn't guarantee success and Microsoft doesn't have any first-party talent of note, but as seen with Titanfall they do have the money to buy (Limited?) exclusivity, and that may yet save them.
Either way, right now Microsoft doesn't have a long-game like Sony did last-gen; this launch window is their shot and nothing they do right now to secure it is wasted effort.
Chobel
Member
If that's the case, I'm not sure if they can call it coherent bandwidth at all. How can they synchronize between CPU and GPU in case of GPU write?
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Foghorn Leghorn
Unconfirmed Member
Do you have a link for the hydrid ssd info? this is the first I have heard about it. I was planning on picking up a 1TB drive but will hold off if the PS4 has a hybrid one.
Yes, thank you.
I think this is very enlightening of Leadbetter as well, just an FYI for fellow gaf/DF followers.
flushing the L2 cache, which is not a good idea.
I don't think that's right. If it had a superior hdd, it would have come out by now.
killatopak
Member
A lot of stuff. The article in the thread itself is lol worthy and we were talking about that it was click bait and stuff.
Then III Killa J III and wrongsider turned up blaming SonyGAF and all that persecution complex. They said A LOT of wrong stuff on that thread particularly what wrongsider says.
One thing that really irked me is that he said that the PS3 didn't have any multimedia features at all unlike the Xbox 360 which is more annoying because he said he even owned a PS3. Literally everything he said in that thread was wrong.
His name is the definition of the word liar.
Then somebody found his name in another forum with the Sony engineers are noob. I lost it and never went back at that thread.
Really??!! How is that possible when you can't snap on iOS & Android devices? I've only seen snapping done on Windows 8/RT/Phone 8 devices. Speaking of which, i'm shocked Apple, Google, Samsung, & etc. haven't ripped off that feature.
Mental Atrophy
Banned
Performance would bottleneck at the slowest component, effectively wasting resources and money.
Nice article there, Portuguese isn't my forte but luckily Spanish is similar enough to understand some of it...
They discuss the bullshit math MS used to justify their 16 ROPs, and how they contradict themselves later on the interview.
killatopak
Member
This.
Although a simple "Sorry" wouldn't have sufficed for me. At least show that you aren't arrogant.
I doubt they're afraid of being Dreamcast'd. At worst, they could wind up with OGXbox numbers, but I'd still expect them to do much better than that.
Rather, what I suspect MS absolutely fears is losing the software sales & online subscriptions advantage. While power differences are certainly much more relevant to the hardcore audience, there's a trickle-down effect in perception generated by that segment of the audience (word-of-mouth) that seeps into the wider softcore/casual segment, where even some dudebro, when asked why he doesn't just play games on a PS3, might respond with something like "games are better on the 360." While he might not be able to articulate things like resolution, texture quality, and framerate, the point is there's a general perception out there, and that's set by the hardcore audience, the early adopters.
Going into next-gen, the power advantage goes purely to the PS4. If that power advantage is readily apparent in multiplat titles from the get-go, then gamers will gravitate toward the system that just gives them a better experience. From there comes the establishment of the perception, "get games on the PS4 because games are better there." Once the softcore/casual audience starts looking to get into next-gen system, if that perception is well established, then you've got more hardware sales -> more software sales (1st and 3rd party) -> more online subscriptions (since both systems have online paywalls now) all in Sony's favor. A snowball effect in the exact opposite direction MS wants it to fall.
So yeah, thinking about it, while MS' vain fight against the power disparity seems to do them more harm than good, at this stage of the game I can see why they're so committed to it. That said, apart from the dedicated servers talk, I'm a bit surprised they don't play up XBLG more.
killatopak
Member
You can snap on Android phones too. It's called "Multi Window". One thing to note though. It doesn't "snap" games just simple apps.
Snapping? I was jesting....