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Digital Foundry: the complete Xbox One architects interview

My sense is MS was caught up short by Sony's early announcement of the PS4.

EVERYTHING they've fucked up can best be explained by simply not being ready, Xbone was still in the oven. I bet everything was "on time" for an expected 2014 launch.

No Killer Kinect game ready for launch?

Immature developer toolsets/middleware

Marketing/What Marketing?

No coherent or consistent defense of their 'vision' for the Xbone.

Granted the extra year would have likely yielded a more mature version of the vision most folks are rejecting in favor of the PS4.

My main point is, I think this all looks like guys who weren't QUITE ready to launch a console this November
 
My sense is MS was caught up short by Sony's early announcement of the PS4.

EVERYTHING they've fucked up can best be explained by simply not being ready, Xbone was still in the oven. I bet everything was "on time" for an expected 2014 launch.

No Killer Kinect game ready for launch?

Immature developer toolsets/middleware

Marketing/What Marketing?

No coherent or consistent defense of their 'vision' for the Xbone.

Granted the extra year would have likely yielded a more mature version of the vision most folks are rejecting in favor of the PS4.

My main point is, I think this all looks like guys who weren't QUITE ready to launch a console this November

More like they were not ready to do 180. Doing 180 means they would need to change a lot in their OS and in games they ship.
 
MS absolutely fears is losing the software sales & online subscriptions advantage. While power differences are certainly much more relevant to the hardcore audience, there's a trickle-down effect in perception generated by that segment of the audience (word-of-mouth) that seeps into the wider softcore/casual segment, where even some dudebro, when asked why he doesn't just play games on a PS3, might respond with something like "games are better on the 360." While he might not be able to articulate things like resolution, texture quality, and framerate, the point is there's a general perception out there, and that's set by the hardcore audience, the early adopters.

Going into next-gen, the power advantage goes purely to the PS4. If that power advantage is readily apparent in multiplat titles from the get-go, then gamers will gravitate toward the system that just gives them a better experience. From there comes the establishment of the perception, "get games on the PS4 because games are better there." Once the softcore/casual audience starts looking to get into next-gen system, if that perception is well established, then you've got more hardware sales -> more software sales (1st and 3rd party) -> more online subscriptions (since both systems have online paywalls now) all in Sony's favor. A snowball effect in the exact opposite direction MS wants it to fall.

Pretty much.

Straight away from before release it will be silent whispers and rumors about how much more powerful the PS4 is, 3 years later PS4 will be having PS2 levels of success and I suspect bone will be dreamcasted since no one wants to pay more for a console which gives inferior performing games. So mcDudebro will just say "get games on the PS4 because games are better there, plus all my friends are on there."
 
Leadbetter loves milking this interview. I mean really? One interview broken up and scattered over 3-4 weeks? Don't understand why this and the IGN AMA couldn't all be compiled into one article.
 
Leadbetter loves milking this interview. I mean really? One interview broken up and scattered over 3-4 weeks? Don't understand why this and the IGN AMA couldn't all be compiled into one article.

More articles = more clicks = more money, and that's why it's called €gamer.
 
I just read an analysis on the article, it's pretty interesting, anyone willing to discuss? It's in Portuguese http://www.pcmanias.com/analise-a-segunda-entrevista-da-microsoft-a-eurogamer/

And the older one http://www.pcmanias.com/uma-analise...a-microsoft-realizada-pela-eurogamer-parte-2/, Google translated here

DAMN Google translate, this article shredded MS claims using factual numbers and math. too bad I don't understand Portuguese and relied on google translate.
 
I doubt they're afraid of being Dreamcast'd. At worst, they could wind up with OGXbox numbers, but I'd still expect them to do much better than that.

Rather, what I suspect MS absolutely fears is losing the software sales & online subscriptions advantage. While power differences are certainly much more relevant to the hardcore audience, there's a trickle-down effect in perception generated by that segment of the audience (word-of-mouth) that seeps into the wider softcore/casual segment, where even some dudebro, when asked why he doesn't just play games on a PS3, might respond with something like "games are better on the 360." While he might not be able to articulate things like resolution, texture quality, and framerate, the point is there's a general perception out there, and that's set by the hardcore audience, the early adopters.

Going into next-gen, the power advantage goes purely to the PS4. If that power advantage is readily apparent in multiplat titles from the get-go, then gamers will gravitate toward the system that just gives them a better experience. From there comes the establishment of the perception, "get games on the PS4 because games are better there." Once the softcore/casual audience starts looking to get into next-gen system, if that perception is well established, then you've got more hardware sales -> more software sales (1st and 3rd party) -> more online subscriptions (since both systems have online paywalls now) all in Sony's favor. A snowball effect in the exact opposite direction MS wants it to fall.

So yeah, thinking about it, while MS' vain fight against the power disparity seems to do them more harm than good, at this stage of the game I can see why they're so committed to it. That said, apart from the dedicated servers talk, I'm a bit surprised they don't play up XBLG more.

Is that the reason the 360 is still selling despite having relatively little to offer in terms of exclusives in 2013?
 
Is that the reason the 360 is still selling despite having relatively little to offer in terms of exclusives in 2013?

Probably yes? Look at PS2 then you'll know. Fifa 14 will release at that platform too. What else could possibly the reason for its release other than it has such a large install base.
 
When Microsoft decides to release the update to make external hdd's usable to install games (hopefully not long after launch). Which would yield better performance/game loading? Installing the game to the internal hdd which is sata 2 capped at 3gbps, or installing the game on an external ssd drive(500mb/s read/write) in the usb 3.0 port which is 5gbps?

Is this from an MS spec sheet dude?
 
When Microsoft decides to release the update to make external hdd's usable to install games (hopefully not long after launch). Which would yield better performance/game loading? Installing the game to the internal hdd which is sata 2 capped at 3gbps, or installing the game on an external ssd drive(500mb/s read/write) in the usb 3.0 port which is 5gbps?
Over USB3 a good 6G SSD should have higher sequential reads, but the same or worse 4k (lots of small files) reads. USB3 has higher latency than SATA2. So it depends if the game has large files or a lot of small files, assuming no technical issues limiting speeds elsewhere.

A better question is whether MS will let you use any USB3 drive you want, or if you have to buy a proprietary drive, which would almost certainly be a non-SSD.
 
I understand that Microsoft was going for an "all around" entertainment box, and designed the box to shoehorn in all of those things equally. What I don't understand is..why?

The set top/streaming/connected/smart box market is so overcrowded right now. Roku. Tivo. Smart TVs. Smart Blu Ray players. Smart audio receivers. Apple TV. Google TV. Not to mention that regular old cable and satellite boxes are starting to be connected and offer good experiences. I think nearly everything connected to each of my HDMI inputs has a network connection with the ability to run hundreds of apps from multiple content partners. Hell, my Hopper with Sling on Dish Network is incredible in and of itself. For the life of me, I really cannot think of one thing that the XB1 could do that anything else I currently have could not. You could make an argument that the XB1 could do them more fancily, but how is that worth $500?

Maybe I'm just not that bright when it comes to marketing and business decisions and all of that, but, was anyone really asking for another one? I just don't get how making hardware compromises like this is beneficial to the final product. I know people were saying early on that Microsoft was obsessed with being HDMI Input 1 on every TV, but was it really all that worth it to gimp the system in other areas?

The only thing I can really think of is that maybe Microsoft feels that its core consumer, who were kids or teens with the original Xbox, and more matured late teens/early 20s gamers with the 360, are now somehow more "adult" and past the point of being a hardcore gamer? That's the kind of vibe I got from the reveal. "Hey, look at all this NFL stuff!" "You can run your fantasy football league from your TV!" "We're making a full featured Halo movie!". I felt like they were trying to say, "Hey, we realize you're older now, maybe married, maybe with kids on the way, you're working more, and don't really have time to invest in video games any longer. You like coming home and spending your weekends watching sports. Boy, have we got a box for you!"


Apparently Gaming is on the decline & MS decided that they needed more strings to their bow to future proof the XBone.
I can see why they did it but tbh I think they aimed a little high both in terms of silicon budget & BOM budget, meaning the result is a powerful machine against its predecessor but relatively mediocre in terms of next gen, I'm not saying the PS4 is a powerhouse either but isn't too shabby bang for buck. That's my take anyway.
 
Microsoft's obsession with how 'their console isn't too shabby' is actually bringing more negative press onto themselves. Just look at the reactions here.

Despite spouting more BS about how they needed to 'demonstrate their value proposition' they've done nothing of that. They have enough of a consumer base and a decent enough console / games; so I don't see a Dreamcast scenario as some people have been suggesting.

However the news for most of the year have been pretty much Sony highlights time and time again.
 
I understand that Microsoft was going for an "all around" entertainment box, and designed the box to shoehorn in all of those things equally. What I don't understand is..why?

The set top/streaming/connected/smart box market is so overcrowded right now. Roku. Tivo. Smart TVs. Smart Blu Ray players. Smart audio receivers. Apple TV. Google TV. Not to mention that regular old cable and satellite boxes are starting to be connected and offer good experiences. I think nearly everything connected to each of my HDMI inputs has a network connection with the ability to run hundreds of apps from multiple content partners. Hell, my Hopper with Sling on Dish Network is incredible in and of itself. For the life of me, I really cannot think of one thing that the XB1 could do that anything else I currently have could not. You could make an argument that the XB1 could do them more fancily, but how is that worth $500?

Maybe I'm just not that bright when it comes to marketing and business decisions and all of that, but, was anyone really asking for another one? I just don't get how making hardware compromises like this is beneficial to the final product. I know people were saying early on that Microsoft was obsessed with being HDMI Input 1 on every TV, but was it really all that worth it to gimp the system in other areas?

The only thing I can really think of is that maybe Microsoft feels that its core consumer, who were kids or teens with the original Xbox, and more matured late teens/early 20s gamers with the 360, are now somehow more "adult" and past the point of being a hardcore gamer? That's the kind of vibe I got from the reveal. "Hey, look at all this NFL stuff!" "You can run your fantasy football league from your TV!" "We're making a full featured Halo movie!". I felt like they were trying to say, "Hey, we realize you're older now, maybe married, maybe with kids on the way, you're working more, and don't really have time to invest in video games any longer. You like coming home and spending your weekends watching sports. Boy, have we got a box for you!"

TBH MS have never wanted to deliver "just" a gaming console. It was always a Trojan Horse for them IMHO. They wanted a central place in the house and saw home console and the natural start point to build from for their aspirations.

Sony are (were?) after the same thing to an extent although from a slightly different angle. If you look at PS3 launch, the focus on media, Blu-Ray, etc you'll see that (ironically) the XB1 is more of a follow on from that than the 360.

The XB1 represents MS big play for single entertainment hub with a focus on digital/streaming content with decent support for physical media too (something the PS3 did better than 360 for example). All the hardware choices seem clear on this: enough memory to deliver the broad media needs, Kinect audio needs, input as well as output connectivity, etc. Of course the high cost of all this meant comprise hence the memory design choices, etc.

Ironically Sony clearly decided to backtrack a bit and focus on a gaming centric console that by it's nature would also do a decent job of media. Remember originally PS4 was only going to have 4GB fast memory - that's clearly a gaming centric decision vs MS 8GB slower memory same with Sony focusing more on GPU power. Sony did get lucky with being able to up it to 8GB fast memory and that was the game changer in many ways.

Personally I think MS is chasing a market that isn't really there any more, with people fragmented across multiple connected devices. I'm not convinced their is a large market model for a single media hub any more but I could be wrong. They seemed to believe a big market (possibly built on an older 360 market as you note) was there and perfect for what they designed the XB1 to be and it seems they got it wrong at least on initial market reactions. TBH again I think the PS3 serves as a perfect example. It struggled as a single entertainment hub then flourished as a gaming console with strong media capabilities (which was really how the 360 flourished too).

Either way MS has chased the goal of a central media/entertainment hub with XB1 that's the core of your house based entertainment and ties into mobile. They also chased a heavily digital future clearly focused on their core markets of US/UK which they felt would then expand to other markets.

Sony I believe is instead targeting PS4 as a gaming device with good media capabilities that fits into a more fragmented model and a looser mobile environment - a model more akin to the PS2 in many ways. Personally I think Sony approach is more in line with current trends while MS has got caught out across the board with XB1 both in terms of what Sony did with PS4 specs as well as where the market really is.

The sheer volume of their 180s for me makes it clear their vision was way out of whack and totally failed to connect (pardon the pun). Now they are trying to revert back to a gaming focus and salvage what they can from the original vision: hence the ungainly marketing/PR of late, the FUD and the general sense of a big organization thrashing around trying to get back on a clear track. Even the name of the "one" is telling - a branding focused on the idea it would be marketed as a single entertainment device vs a gaming console.
 
I think Microsoft's design decisions are pretty straightforward. I wouldn't say it's "backwards" per se, but more holistic in terms of competing goals for the hardware.

1) Power was not the only goal of the console - OS features, Kinect, and gaming all had priorities when designing the console, so 8GB of RAM was a must in order to ensure enough memory resources.

2) The console was going to pack-in Kinect as standard. This required more robust audio hardware, it would also increase the cost of the console. As a result, other components needed to be cheaper in order to keep costs down.

3) In order to meet the goals of 1) and 2), a single APU design was necessary in order to decrease costs and allow die shrinks to continue decreasing costs significantly over time. 8GB of RAM was also a requirement, but it needed to be a cheap solution that could be targeted for 2013 release -- thus 8GB of DDR3 was chosen.

4) In order for 8GB of DDR3 RAM to be able to hold up in 2013, a secondary pool of high speed memory was necessary - thus, the decision could have been eDRAM or eSRAM. The latter was ultimately chosen because it could be integrated with the APU.

Microsoft went into the design of Xbox One with the mindset that all of these factors needed to be met. GDDR5 may have increased the BOM more than they would have liked, and it also may have not been guaranteed for 2013 release (remember Xbox One was designed two years ago).

Sony went into the design with a different philosophy; instead of competing interests for OS functionality or Move, they decided to focus designing the hardware around games and developers first, and then whatever resources they had left over would be allocated to either of these functions but they were considered of secondary importance.

It's why Sony was originally willing to go with 4GB of GDDR5 -- sufficient for gaming purposes, and in many ways still superior to the 8GB of DDR3 purely for rendering. It would have required a smaller OS footprint for the PS4, so Sony was conceding at that point in time that they may have not had the ability or memory resources for all the advanced multi-tasking that the Xbox One is capable of. Bottom line is that 8GB of RAM was never a requirement from the outset of the project design. This allowed Sony to focus the APU purely around providing the best GPU bang for their buck -- they picked a highly customized Pitcairn GPU with advanced GPGPU functionality coupled with a relatively modest CPU.

So Sony was giving developers what they wanted the most out of a next-gen consoles -- RAM bandwidth and a powerful GPU. It just so happened that they lucked out and 8GB of GDDR5 became available in 2013, further removing developer limitations with the console.

Sony and Microsoft had two very different philosophies for next-gen, and I think they were entirely based upon their experiences this gen. In the case of Sony, many people felt PS3's design was overly complex and the cost was too high due to Blu-Ray and CELL, while the memory architecture was causing developer headaches. It left Sony fighting to win back the core audience they had been losing to Microsoft. So their PS4 design was based upon winning them back.

Microsoft in comparison, felt pretty confident that they had the hardcore gaming audience in the bag, so to speak. And they had been riding high off some relative success of an expanding userbase thanks to Kinect. So they doubled down on this strategy, and focused more on expanding services.

Hence why we have the two systems that we have today.


Bravo! Excellent summary of events as I understand it and easy to follow. Sony really did get lucky with their 8GB situation. Good for gamers it worked out.
 
Is that the reason the 360 is still selling despite having relatively little to offer in terms of exclusives in 2013?

In itself, no, of course not. The situation concerning PS360 hardware sales is more complicated than that, though I guess the broadest generalization I'd come up with is that the 360 enjoys a sheer mindshare advantage in certain markets (US & UK). That's something that MS is fighting for as well through their advertising blitzkrieg, the FUD, the astroturfing, and all the various interviews that keeps their names and the Xbone on top of gaming news sites.

My point was to focus in on one aspect in particular that MS is likely concerned about going into the next generation, one which would explain why they're so keen to focus on the power differential between the two upcoming systems and trying desperately to shift the perception to there not being much of a gap at all. Despite how most anyone really paying attention to the news is quite aware that, outside of the hardcore, folks buying consoles hardly ever really know or care about a console's power and the numbers that go into that, there still is the question of perception and how that can snowball into moving potential software & subscription sales, the things that arguably make way more money for Sony + MS than hardware sales.
 
I have little doubt if MS could go back in time they would be releasing a very different console than they are now. More power, less kinect.
And I still think Sony couls have gone a little harder on the specs than they did. A GPU nearing 3tflops would have given the ps4 a similar lifespan as the ps3, however i think this wont have that.
 
Pretty much.

Straight away from before release it will be silent whispers and rumors about how much more powerful the PS4 is, 3 years later PS4 will be having PS2 levels of success and I suspect bone will be dreamcasted since no one wants to pay more for a console which gives inferior performing games. So mcDudebro will just say "get games on the PS4 because games are better there, plus all my friends are on there."

Yep, that's what happened with the 360. One kid in town gets it, (almost) everybody follows. System was cheaper, had more games coming for it in the early years, and LIVE is still an unparalleled service.

Not sure if this matters, but Xbox has always had Halo. Sony never had a game to match it, although they tried with Resistance and are now really pushing Killzone.
 
Yep, that's what happened with the 360. One kid in town gets it, (almost) everybody follows. System was cheaper, had more games coming for it in the early years, and LIVE is still an unparalleled service.

Not sure if this matters, but Xbox has always had Halo. Sony never had a game to match it, although they tried with Resistance and are now really pushing Killzone.

For the last point, not really. MS has never been able to match Gran Turismo/God of War either.

Exclusives are a bigger selling point for some depending on the games you like; so if FPS > all other genres, sure, Halo's a big deal. If Driving > everything, GT is a must. The argument goes both ways.
 
I have little doubt if MS could go back in time they would be releasing a very different console than they are now. More power, less kinect.
And I still think Sony couls have gone a little harder on the specs than they did. A GPU nearing 3tflops would have given the ps4 a similar lifespan as the ps3, however i think this wont have that.

The 7870 is a very respectable GPU even in the PC world. Not everyone who owns a PC has the ability to buy a 300$ GPU ( which still won't get you max settings @ 1080p x 60fps on newer games ). Most stick within the 200$ range or lower, which is where the 7850/7870 comes into play.

Then you have the Jaguar 8 core processor, which is another 200$ type product.

How Sony put this thing together with the components, with the GDDR5, the 500GB HDD, the blu-ray drive, the motherboard and casing, etc. without taking much of a loss on each sale at 400$ is beyond me. Blows my mind. Then they built it so small with an internal PSU! Unbelievable.

I remember the reveal threads where the agreement seemed to be this would be a 600$ console or more due to the announced specs.
 
My sense is MS was caught up short by Sony's early announcement of the PS4.

EVERYTHING they've fucked up can best be explained by simply not being ready, Xbone was still in the oven. I bet everything was "on time" for an expected 2014 launch.

No Killer Kinect game ready for launch?

Immature developer toolsets/middleware

Marketing/What Marketing?

No coherent or consistent defense of their 'vision' for the Xbone.

Granted the extra year would have likely yielded a more mature version of the vision most folks are rejecting in favor of the PS4.

My main point is, I think this all looks like guys who weren't QUITE ready to launch a console this November

Could you imagine how antiquated their hardware would have looked in holiday 2014? I think they were shooting for holiday 2013; they are just way behind schedule.
 
Really??!! How is that possible when you can't snap on iOS & Android devices? I've only seen snapping done on Windows 8/RT/Phone 8 devices. Speaking of which, i'm shocked Apple, Google, Samsung, & etc. haven't ripped off that feature.

They were being sarcastic man (I hope); no one's going to pick an XBO over a PS4 over a throwaway feature like snapping.
 
On a year of its next gen console launch.

where was MS keynotes at gamescon and TGS? I still cant believe they gave sony stage time all to them self. They have been hibernating since E3 and post 180's.

That is not the aggressive MS of 2006

xbox_boat-copy.jpg
 
Guess we can all agree this is Sony's gen for the taking and MS only has about a year to keep it from happening. I am of the belief now there is only way MS can avoid that scenario from happening are:

-Launch PS4 shipments are blown up in corporate espionage terrorist act before arriving to stores (MS....slightly possible)

MS, you have loyal soldiers on these very here boards willing to do the work for you. The force is strong in us. Master Chief will protect us, I saw it as an epiphany the night before. We are your humble servants and will not allow grubby Sony with its dwarfs to taint the crown of the champion.

We. Are. LEGION!
 
On a year of its next gen console launch.

where was MS keynotes at gamescon and TGS? I still cant believe they gave sony stage time all to them self. They have been hibernating since E3 and post 180's.

That is not the aggressive MS of 2006

xbox_boat-copy.jpg

The keynote at Gamescom was a small briefing by Phil and Phil.
 
Microsoft's obsession with how 'their console isn't too shabby' is actually bringing more negative press onto themselves.

They're trying to hard to downplay any lack of power with vagueness, but I don't think it will work as word of mouth to the casuals is that's it's pretty rubbish compared to PS4 power. So doing all this PR is just bringing more attention to how underpowered it is.

Sony put this thing together with the components, with the GDDR5, the 500GB HDD, the blu-ray drive, the motherboard and casing, etc. without taking much of a loss on each sale at 400$ is beyond me. Blows my mind. Then they built it so small with an internal PSU! Unbelievable.

I can't see how it won't be a success of PS2 levels considering the price too.
 
I'm pretty sure the 8GB flash is only here to hold the firmware and it's backup. The PS3 has the same kind of solution, and the PS4 probably too.
I also initially assumed it was where the OS would live, but after I read MS were warning users the OS would occupy a "significant" amount of space on the HDD, I changed my theory to promoting oft-snapped apps, etc. They confirmed that revised theory in this latest article.

"Sure. We use it as a cache system-side to improve system response and again not disturb system performance on the titles running underneath. So what it does is that it makes our boot times faster when you're not coming out of the sleep mode - if you're doing the cold boot. It caches the operating system on there. It also caches system data on there while you're actually running the titles and when you have the snap applications running concurrently. It's so that we're not going and hitting the hard disk at the same time that the title is. All the game data is on the HDD. We wanted to be moving that head around and not worrying about the system coming in and monkeying with the head at an inopportune time."

Do we know if Sony have any flash on the mobo?

EVERYTHING they've fucked up can best be explained by simply not being ready, Xbone was still in the oven. I bet everything was "on time" for an expected 2014 launch.
I know CBoaT said MS were caught off guard by Sony's "early" announcement, but I haven't heard a single rumor about MS ever having planned to launch in 2014 (though it's entirely possible I missed one).

I'm wondering if maybe MS were thinking Sony wouldn't launch until 2014, and figured a half-assed launch in 2013 wouldn't look bad at all with nothing else to compare it to, and they'd basically be able to buy themselves another year-long head start by shipping a beta device. Perhaps Agent Harrison assured them Sony would never be ready to go this year. :p

Regardless of the root cause(s), MS certainly don't seem prepared for 2013 themselves.
 
the most telling of all things is that not ONCE have you heard a MS employee claim that the Xbone will provide the BETTER graphics...

its always "the gap isn't that big" or "i dont see a 40% difference" or "we dont think our competition is that far ahead"

while i dont think there is going to be night and day differences between PS4 and Xbone games...it is so incredible to me that the power arguments still need to take place and that there are some out there so entrenched in their support for the Xbox brand that they refuse to believe it..
 
the most telling of all things is that not ONCE have you heard a MS employee claim that the Xbone will provide the BETTER graphics...

its always "the gap isn't that big" or "i dont see a 40% difference" or "we dont think our competition is that far ahead"

while i dont think there is going to be night and day differences between PS4 and Xbone games...it is so incredible to me that the power arguments still need to take place and that there are some out there so entrenched in their support for the Xbox brand that they refuse to believe it..
This is true.

I am going to assume, via third parties, Sony and Microsoft will know roughly what to expect. Accepting a defecit now is better than going all in on graphics and then having LoT and Digital Foundary (ha) asking why they are not on par.
 
I also initially assumed it was where the OS would live, but after I read MS were warning users the OS would occupy a "significant" amount of space on the HDD, I changed my theory to promoting oft-snapped apps, etc. They confirmed that revised theory in this latest article.

OS =/= firmware.
The OS is on the HDD, but the firmware is on flash. It's something you can't access directly. If you format your whole HDD, you'll be able to reinstall the OS that way.
 
I doubt they're afraid of being Dreamcast'd. At worst, they could wind up with OGXbox numbers, but I'd still expect them to do much better than that.

Rather, what I suspect MS absolutely fears is losing the software sales & online subscriptions advantage. While power differences are certainly much more relevant to the hardcore audience, there's a trickle-down effect in perception generated by that segment of the audience (word-of-mouth) that seeps into the wider softcore/casual segment, where even some dudebro, when asked why he doesn't just play games on a PS3, might respond with something like "games are better on the 360." While he might not be able to articulate things like resolution, texture quality, and framerate, the point is there's a general perception out there, and that's set by the hardcore audience, the early adopters.

Going into next-gen, the power advantage goes purely to the PS4. If that power advantage is readily apparent in multiplat titles from the get-go, then gamers will gravitate toward the system that just gives them a better experience. From there comes the establishment of the perception, "get games on the PS4 because games are better there." Once the softcore/casual audience starts looking to get into next-gen system, if that perception is well established, then you've got more hardware sales -> more software sales (1st and 3rd party) -> more online subscriptions (since both systems have online paywalls now) all in Sony's favor. A snowball effect in the exact opposite direction MS wants it to fall.

So yeah, thinking about it, while MS' vain fight against the power disparity seems to do them more harm than good, at this stage of the game I can see why they're so committed to it. That said, apart from the dedicated servers talk, I'm a bit surprised they don't play up XBLG more.
Keep speculating.
 
I also initially assumed it was where the OS would live, but after I read MS were warning users the OS would occupy a "significant" amount of space on the HDD, I changed my theory to promoting oft-snapped apps, etc. They confirmed that revised theory in this latest article.

"Sure. We use it as a cache system-side to improve system response and again not disturb system performance on the titles running underneath. So what it does is that it makes our boot times faster when you're not coming out of the sleep mode - if you're doing the cold boot. It caches the operating system on there. It also caches system data on there while you're actually running the titles and when you have the snap applications running concurrently. It's so that we're not going and hitting the hard disk at the same time that the title is. All the game data is on the HDD. We wanted to be moving that head around and not worrying about the system coming in and monkeying with the head at an inopportune time."

Do we know if Sony have any flash on the mobo?

PS4 is rumored to have 16GB of Flash. They haven't said anything about it officially, but they never said anything about the 4GB of Flash built into every Vita, either.
 
The 7870 is a very respectable GPU even in the PC world. Not everyone who owns a PC has the ability to buy a 300$ GPU ( which still won't get you max settings @ 1080p x 60fps on newer games ). Most stick within the 200$ range or lower, which is where the 7850/7870 comes into play.

Then you have the Jaguar 8 core processor, which is another 200$ type product.

How Sony put this thing together with the components, with the GDDR5, the 500GB HDD, the blu-ray drive, the motherboard and casing, etc. without taking much of a loss on each sale at 400$ is beyond me. Blows my mind. Then they built it so small with an internal PSU! Unbelievable.

I remember the reveal threads where the agreement seemed to be this would be a 600$ console or more due to the announced specs.

Yeah, no.
I don't know about us prices, but for a little more (~50-100€) than 400€ u can build a pc with a better gpu and cpu. Whoever predicted this thing at 600$ didn't know what he was talking about.
 
Is this from an MS spec sheet dude?
The update? Yeah i forgot who mentioned it, but it won't be available at launch sadly.

Over USB3 a good 6G SSD should have higher sequential reads, but the same or worse 4k (lots of small files) reads. USB3 has higher latency than SATA2. So it depends if the game has large files or a lot of small files, assuming no technical issues limiting speeds elsewhere.

A better question is whether MS will let you use any USB3 drive you want, or if you have to buy a proprietary drive, which would almost certainly be a non-SSD.

Thanks for that. If the 360 is anything to go by then any usb drive would work. The only time you had to buy a proprietary drive is when you wanted to replace the internal hdd which in this case won't be happening. I think the limit for 360 is 32gb? Hopefully MS follows what Nintendo is doing and doesn't cap the size.
 
Yeah, no.
I don't know about us prices, but for a little more (~50-100€) than 400€ u can build a pc with a better gpu and cpu. Whoever predicted this thing at 600$ didn't know what he was talking about.

......

Radeon 7850 = 150+ depending on what RAM amount you want
Radeon 7870 = = 180-200$ depending on RAM amounts.
8 core AMD Jaguar processor = around 200$ This variant, probably in the 120-150 range.
500GB HDD = 30-50$
6x Blu-Ray drive, best I could find was 80$. Most were in the hundreds for PC blu-ray drive at that speed

List goes on.
 
Keep speculating.
Keep making dem quality posts.

MS doesn't seem to be ready at all. You would think that their games would shine if they have been taking 360 games and upporting them to next gen (DR3, Ryse, Crimson Dragon). Why would they have waited so long to begin porting those games if they wanted to launch this year? Why are there no launch Kinect games? Why are none (almost none) of the features available at launch? Why isn't the console launching in more than 13 (21?) countries?

All of those problems make it seem to me that either they weren't planning for a 2013 launch or they are way behind schedule. Either way, the result is the same.
 
Yeah, no.
I don't know about us prices, but for a little more (~50-100€) than 400€ u can build a pc with a better gpu and cpu. Whoever predicted this thing at 600$ didn't know what he was talking about.


I don't think that's true, but links to the stores would be very welcome!
 
Is that the reason the 360 is still selling despite having relatively little to offer in terms of exclusives in 2013?

The xbox 360 is selling off the momentum built up over the last 8 years. Stop being dense. It has no exclusives because it doesnt need to have exclusives to sell at this point.
 
DAMN Google translate, this article shredded MS claims using factual numbers and math. too bad I don't understand Portuguese and relied on google translate.

Yes indeed. I wanted to know if it's accurate of not. Any bits you're interested in? I can translate it if necessary. :)
 
You cant even get a video card with the same amount of VRAM for that price so GTFO outta here with that nonsense.

I'm sorry if i hurt ur feelings, but this wasn't about "i can build the same pc for 400€".
This was about "how could Sony build that power for 400€ without loosing much money".
And so your point of "You cant even get a video card with the same amount of VRAM" doesn't matter - at least as long as you don't want to imply that Sony pays a gazzilion more for the 8GB GDDR5 than what an end-cosumer pays for the 2GB GDDR5 + 8GB DDR3 of the example pc.
 

What velociraptor said plus :

.Bluetooth controler
.Input (because without it, it's a paperweight), i let you choose between a controler and keyboard/mouse combo, but i want good stuff, because DS4 is.
.Hdmi Cable (i know it's cheap, but it does add up)
.Case, i think your last link is just the PSU (it's bad btw)
 
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