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Digital Foundry vs Watch Dogs on Wii U

Seik

Banned
This doesn't look better than Watchdogs at all.
I'd say it looks considerably worse.
I also don't think the city in Xenoblade will be anywhere near Watchdogs chicago in size.

Yeah, I agree with the bolded.

If we're talking about the whole scale of Xenoblade X though, it'll be quite bigger than Watch Dogs in the end. Even the first Xenoblade is considerably larger than WD and Monolith confirmed that X would be what...4-5 times bigger than Xenoblade?
 
Damn, you people sure are picky saying xenoblade looks bad, and the game isn't even finish yet. Also, the first xenoblade was massive, bigger than any Chicago, and this one is supposed to be 5 times bigger

Xenoblade has nice art and great outdoor vistas and enemy designs... But the city looks bad and character models or facial detail are really not the game's strong suit. So understandably that gif did backfire.
 

Aroll

Member
The wiiu continues the trend of having inferior multiplatform games compared to 360/ps3, and as usual Wiiu owners claim it's a great port, till the DF article comes out.

Man, you must REALLY hate the Wii U, because objectively speaking, this isn't true in the slightest. In the DF article itself it already presents you with a multiplatform game that is better on the Wii U than the PS3/360 (Bayonetta), and that hasn't been the only case. Rayman Legends best version was on Wii U, Deus Ex better version was on Wii U, Need for Speed Most Wanted... etc.

There are a lot of examples of games that are superior on the Wii U. The games that aren't are mostly due to really shitty port jobs, and they seem to come from Ubisoft (what a shocker), given that Ubisoft has given up on the Wii U platform. THere is a trend of open world games being worse, but as I am sure Nintendo is about to prove with Zelda U - this doesn't have to be the case, but it's too much to ask 3rd parties to actually adjust their game to be less processor heavy and more GPU dependent.
 

Dicer

Banned
DF really didn't need to tackle this one, but they did for hits...

It's a half assed port by a company that even said it was their last effort, no one should be surprised, but here we are, even dragging Xenoblade into it for no good reason, that city section isn't the meat of the game, it's the awesome open world environments that shit all over the city section itself and certainly over watch dogs.

But par for the course, let the trolls pick apart the hardware, and not the half cocked attempt at the port...and then let someone try to justify it with one poorly selected gif.


Good times GAF, good fuckin times, lol.
 
DF really didn't need to tackle this one, but they did for hits...

It's a half assed port by a company that even said it was their last effort, no one should be surprised, but here we are, even dragging Xenoblade into it for no good reason, that city section isn't the meat of the game, it's the awesome open world environments that shit all over the city section itself and certainly over watch dogs.

But par for the course, let the trolls pick apart the hardware, and not the half cocked attempt at the port...and then let someone try to justify it with one poorly selected gif.


Good times GAF, good fuckin times, lol.

Why ?
 

Sify64

Member
M°°nblade;140488567 said:
Then the person should have posted another gif to counter the 'show me a better looking city based open world game' argument, shouldn't he? :p
Actually the argument was 'show me a city based open world game by Nintendo' . That was the point of the gif before poeple start misunderstanding again.
 

defferoo

Member
come on now. they went for the bare minimum power wise, just to make the console smaller, A gpu with only 176 glops, and a weak cpu to boot, it wasn't just a choice, they just don't care for specs. it was all about being low power wattage, small, and gamepad, no effort was put making descent specs.
if they didn't want to put any effort in they could have just asked AMD to give them a CPU and GPU combo. Instead they put tons of effort in creating a custom Tri-core version of Broadway. I'm not saying that was the right decision, but you can't say they didn't put effort in.
 
Just want throw it out there, that this whole GPGPU stuff on GAF has reached meme levels of virality. You legitimately cannot do that for so much of the stuff that runs on the CPU.

I know. I'm sure that if the Watch Dogs Wii U team had unlimited budget and resources they could have moved enough code over to compute, but I recognize that it's a lot of work and it was probably well beyond the scope of a small team doing a port.

The Wii U should have been easy to port to. A slightly more powerful CPU and it would have been. The weaker CPU forces certain CPU heavy pre existing engines to have to find ways to reduce that workload without compromising the game, either by recoding parts of the engine to make them more efficient or recoding various systems to run on the GPU.

This is doable... but it takes a good number of man hours. See DICE's quotes about porting Frostbite to the Wii U. Frostbite is CPU heavy, and when they realized the CPU on the Wii U wasn't up to it, they said the amount of work required to port the engine wasn't worth it... not that it wasn't possible.

But this is Nintendo's fault. Sure, if you build a game from the ground up, or if you put in the appropriate time and effort, you can do it... but if the number of sold copies lost because the Wii U version runs at 20-25 fps under stress rather than 25-30 doesn't more than offset the costs of getting the engine running at least as well as it does on 360...

Then no port is going to get the budget to do it.

Again, the CPU just had to be a bit more powerful. It could have been the same design. The same architecture. But a bit more powerful. Which would have been completely doable if Nintendo were prepared to budge on the size of the system and the amount of power it draws... but they weren't.

Their decision made the system relatively easy to port to if you didn't mind games running a bit worse, and hard (ie, more man hours, higher skilled and likely higher paid staff, eg more expensive) to get them running as well or better.
 

Zarovitch

Member
It least Xenoblade will run well for the hardware it is done.

I can't believe Ubi make games like Watch dog or Assassins Creed that run that bad.
Even on new hardware they seems to fail.

They don't seem to focus on the right thing when they makes games.
Maybe i'm wrong but i don't think games will look that bad if they make it run at at least 30fps with no drop?

In the case of Watch Dog on WiiU, i would have buy it even if it was less beautifull than the PS3 version with a better framerate and a good use of the gamepad.
 

SmokyDave

Member
how did that lego city game run on wii u?
That one was weird. The framerate was fine as far as I remember, but the load times were utterly brutal. It also had some weird limitations. You could only land on helipads rather than having totally free flight, and the entirety of the middle of the map was just missing. There was a huge blank area in the middle of the game (camouflaged by buildings or land). It wasn't a proper open world like something like Just Cause 2.
 

Sean

Banned
Jesus christ Ubisoft. If you are going to put out a shit port then it's no wonder people aint buying it.

Put out a competent product or don't put out anythign at all.

Let's be honest here, Watch Dogs for Wii U would've flopped hard even if there was a ton of effort put into making it a solid port.

Game was released for an incredibly tiny niche audience: Wii U-only owners who buy third party games and don't have a PS3/PS4/XBO/360/PC. Wouldn't make any business sense pouring lots of money and resources into a port for such a limited audience.
 

killatopak

Member
Easy choice internally.

Should we go with a CPU design that would better accommodate 3rd-party developers - who would find every reason under the sun not to fully/equally support our console regardless - and risk jeopardizing our own internal development by catering to a new design process?

Or...

Knowing that we'll likely have to support this console almost independently, maybe we should stick to a design that our teams are comfortable with, and our tools are optmized for, right?

What? Ubi and other devs supported the Wii U fully at the start.
 

Aroll

Member
You mean Nintendo designed a console for Miyamoto again, not for anyone else. He's a great game designer, but he needs to be reigned in when it comes to console design.

This is pretty interesting, given the strong evidence we have that the Wii U was the result of Iwata, especially with what is in the box. Iwata essentially told the hardware department the Wii U needed to be low power consumption and a small form factor comparable to the Wii. The gamepad aside, those restrictions are going to severely limit what can be put in the box due to overheating concerns and you know, wanting extremely low power draw. He really misunderstood why the Wii sold, as it wasn't due to the small form factor and power consumption at all, but due to the controls and a select group of games that helped make them appeal to a broad audience.

Miyamoto obviously has a say, but I am unsure how this was a console tailored for him - Miyamoto's games have actually been among the least impressive on the system, so if it was designed for him then lol, because Nintendo's OTHER development teams are doing a much better job taking advantage of it than he is individually. Even then, there was a masive dissconnect between the Wii U hardware and the development teams at Nintendo and what they wanted, which they feel they have rectified by putting most of those teams in the exact same building. This should mean the next iteration of hardware is more in line with what their game designers actually want, versus the demands of the CEO on form factor and power which restricts everything you can do. We obviously don't know what those dev teams want, but them ore power, the more possibilities.

Nintendo always designs their consoles for their own teams above all else, but the Wii U is the first console they have released that it seems Nintendo's own teams weren't happy with, even if they do great things with it given the tool sets they get to toy with. There was a few examples in the past in Iwata asks/interviews/investor meetings where Iwata all but admitted that the Wii Hardware was all on him and the restrictions he gave the hardware team, and that the software side wasn't even consulted on their desires.
 

lyrick

Member
Let's be honest here, Watch Dogs for Wii U would've flopped hard even if there was a ton of effort put into making it a solid port.

Game was released for an incredibly tiny niche audience: Wii U-only owners who buy third party games and don't have a PS3/PS4/XBO/360/PC. Wouldn't make any business sense pouring lots of money and resources into a port for such a limited audience.

You're missing the point. This thread has obviously moved on to where we now only discuss how shitty the Wii U CPU is, and how users like Smokey Dave and Ninjablade obviously have a great investment in the quality of Wii U titles.


We could actually discuss the business prospect of why this version exists, or even why there is such a disparity in the asset quality from some areas (featuring PS4 textures, while other are PS3 level) or even the merits of using V-sync when it brings framerate down to a certain level, but those seem to be nonstarters.
 
Man, you must REALLY hate the Wii U, because objectively speaking, this isn't true in the slightest. In the DF article itself it already presents you with a multiplatform game that is better on the Wii U than the PS3/360 (Bayonetta), and that hasn't been the only case. Rayman Legends best version was on Wii U, Deus Ex better version was on Wii U, Need for Speed Most Wanted... etc.

you should do your research. most of multiplatform games perform worse on wiiu. just to name them, both batman games, both cod, both AC, Micky, resident evil, dark siders, tekken, ninja gaiden, watch dogs, splinter cell according to DF, and both sonic all star and disney infinti 2 run at the lowest resolution compared to 360/ps3 versions.
 
Pretty fucking embarrassing. I'd point the finger at all parties involved: Nintendo for shitting the bed on hardware and third-parties (again), and Ubisoft for being Ubisoft.
 

pulsemyne

Member
That one was weird. The framerate was fine as far as I remember, but the load times were utterly brutal. It also had some weird limitations. You could only land on helipads rather than having totally free flight, and the entirety of the middle of the map was just missing. There was a huge blank area in the middle of the game (camouflaged by buildings or land). It wasn't a proper open world like something like Just Cause 2.

It was a bloody massive map though. Also looked very nice. Probably was less heavy on the CPU than ubisofts engine (nearly all of which are heavily CPU biased and suggests they are iterations of much older engines that don't take GPU compute into account that much if at all).
As for this port, it seems bizarre that they didn't spend some time on using the gamepad well as it's perfect for this type of game. It does suggested a minimal effort port. Given its limited release you can see that it was a case of "just get it out and ignore it". It's passable and that is all that ubisoft probably though was necessary "Meh it works, fuck it"
Still at least people got to spend 5 pages shitting on the WiiU. Again. Same old people saying the same old things. Even trying to shit on Xeno which actually looks really impressive.
 

StevieP

Banned
you should do your research. most of multiplatform games perform worse on wiiu. just to name them, both batman games, both cod, both AC, Micky, resident evil, dark siders, ninja gaiden, watch dogs, splinter cell according to DF, and both sonic all star and disney infinti 2 run at the lowest resolution compared to 360/ps3 versions.

I didn't see you complaining about how poor the ps4 was as a console with its weak CPU In the assasin's creed unity thread when it was shown to run sub 20fps. How come? The criteria are the same as your tirades in this thread.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Yeah, I agree with the bolded.

If we're talking about the whole scale of Xenoblade X though, it'll be quite bigger than Watch Dogs in the end. Even the first Xenoblade is considerably larger than WD and Monolith confirmed that X would be what...4-5 times bigger than Xenoblade?
Yeah but size doesn't mean anything by itself. I mean Daggerfall is bigger than just about any game on the market today but it's landscapes are extremely simplistic.
 
you should do your research. most of multiplatform games perform worse on wiiu. just to name them, both batman games, both cod, both AC, Micky, resident evil, dark siders, tekken, ninja gaiden, watch dogs, splinter cell according to DF, and both sonic all star and disney infinti 2 run at the lowest resolution compared to 360/ps3 versions.

List and link all of the Digital Foundries where the WiiU is the worst performing port of all three last gen consoles, because it could be my memory playign tricks on me, but it was pretty routinely the middle child in those comparisons.
 

tronic307

Member
I'll still get this for the novelty, if nothing else. Bayonetta shows that good ports are very possible on the Wii U, but I don't think that means the Watch Dogs devs were lazy. Look, can anyone here visualize Nintendo asking around for advice on hardware before the specs are set in stone? Hmm... I'm sure Sony and Microsoft specs read almost like a third party wishlist. Here we see where third party difficulties originate for Nintendo, and it just goes back to their mindset from the NES and SNES days when third parties were viewed as competitors. How much has that changed when the hardware seems to be designed to frustrate developers who aren't as familiar with it? I can't say I know for certain, but it's pretty evident by now that Nintendo's third party difficulties begin while the hardware is still on the drawing board. That said, I'd be hesitant to characterize the Wii U hardware as weak, more like weird if you're not Nintendo. Nintendo makes my favorite games, but they'll have to address this issue moving forward.
 
I would normally agree with this, but somewhere you have to draw the line. Below 30fps territory every frame counts, so I'd personally take some tearing over 20fps.

Nintendo seemingly mandates V-Sync, but that is not always a good idea. (Bayonetta 1 having terrible input lag compared to the 360 version for example)

Low frame rates are disappointing but tearing makes everything an eye grating unplayable mess to me,it for that reason I'll probably never be able to finish darksiders 2 despite the fact I was really enjoying it
 
M°°nblade;140487232 said:
What do you mean no tearing?

I'm not an expert on this but even if you use vsync, when the framerate drops to 20-25fps, there's going to be tearing or other artifacts because your framrate doesn't sync with your monitor refresh rate.

I take it you don't own a Wii U then
 
I didn't see you complaining about how poor the ps4 was as a console with its weak CPU In the assasin's creed unity thread when it was shown to run sub 20fps. How come? The criteria are the same as your tirades in this thread.

I think it was the only game on ps4 to have shitty performace and lose a faceoff . i did complain about it the ps4 cpu and how a 750 ti was matching it, even thought about getting a PC instead of a PS4, in the end though, there's not much to complain about when ps4 is way ahead of the console competition when it comes to hardware.
 
dissapointing. I was thinking of buying this on the wii u as from my experience with ac 3 the gamepad makes these ubi open world games much better. I dont care if the graphical settings are worse than I would get on my PC, but I cannot accept consistently sub 30fps (dips here and there would be acceptable).
 
List and link all of the Digital Foundries where the WiiU is the worst performing port of all three last gen consoles, because it could be my memory playign tricks on me, but it was pretty routinely the middle child in those comparisons.

just google each game in the list and type faceoff wiiu.
 

StevieP

Banned
I think it was the only game on ps4 to lose a faceoff. i did complain about it, even thought about getting a PC instead of a PS4, in the end though, there's not much to complain about when ps4 is way ahead of the console competition when it comes to hardware.

Every game loses a face off to Pc. That isn't the point. The criteria is the same as this port here, so why don't I see you complaining for the same reasons? Low end CPU and over taxed team (or no budget and small team in this case) causes bad framerates in major third party game.
 
just google each game in the list and type faceoff.

But you claimed Ninja Gaiden performed worse and the DF I read had it pegged as so much better than most of the original games complaints were now unfounded, so I want you to read those articles and tell me the games where the WiiU is unequivocably the worst performing with the lowest resolution as you claim.
 

Schnozberry

Member
you should do your research. most of multiplatform games perform worse on wiiu. just to name them, both batman games, both cod, both AC, Micky, resident evil, dark siders, tekken, ninja gaiden, watch dogs, splinter cell according to DF, and both sonic all star and disney infinti 2 run at the lowest resolution compared to 360/ps3 versions.

There are too many gorgeous looking 60fps games on the system to just blame it on the hardware. I think it's pretty clear that ports from 360/PS3 that have been developed with those platforms in mind are difficult to re-tune for Wii U, and there isn't enough money in the budget or a high enough projected rate of return for these games to make it worth really reworking large portions of the code to do so.
 

ozfunghi

Member
DF really didn't need to tackle this one, but they did for hits...

To be fair, there were people asking for a comparison in the WD topic. Not sure if they did it because of demand or not, but at least one member of the DF crew was posting in that (and this) topic.
 

Red Mage

Member
This is pretty interesting, given the strong evidence we have that the Wii U was the result of Iwata, especially with what is in the box. Iwata essentially told the hardware department the Wii U needed to be low power consumption and a small form factor comparable to the Wii. The gamepad aside, those restrictions are going to severely limit what can be put in the box due to overheating concerns and you know, wanting extremely low power draw. He really misunderstood why the Wii sold, as it wasn't due to the small form factor and power consumption at all, but due to the controls and a select group of games that helped make them appeal to a broad audience.

Miyamoto obviously has a say, but I am unsure how this was a console tailored for him - Miyamoto's games have actually been among the least impressive on the system, so if it was designed for him then lol, because Nintendo's OTHER development teams are doing a much better job taking advantage of it than he is individually. Even then, there was a masive dissconnect between the Wii U hardware and the development teams at Nintendo and what they wanted, which they feel they have rectified by putting most of those teams in the exact same building. This should mean the next iteration of hardware is more in line with what their game designers actually want, versus the demands of the CEO on form factor and power which restricts everything you can do. We obviously don't know what those dev teams want, but them ore power, the more possibilities.

Nintendo always designs their consoles for their own teams above all else, but the Wii U is the first console they have released that it seems Nintendo's own teams weren't happy with, even if they do great things with it given the tool sets they get to toy with. There was a few examples in the past in Iwata asks/interviews/investor meetings where Iwata all but admitted that the Wii Hardware was all on him and the restrictions he gave the hardware team, and that the software side wasn't even consulted on their desires.

Miyamoto is always heavily involved with the design of the new systems. Part of the problem stems from the fact that the controllers are always designed around whatever wild idea he has at the time.
 
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