• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Digital Foundry: Xbox Scorpio

neoglow

Banned
So Microsoft have created a console more powerful than the Xbox One, goody.

However, it won't have any exclusive games as the games are cross platform to the One and the PC. A gaming PC is likely more powerful and offers more flexibility in terms of mods and cheating etc etc.

So you buy a Scorpio to play the next Halo or Gears or Forza (tired, unoriginal IP, churned out every couple years) with some extra frames and better AA...

...what am I missing here?...
 

ironcreed

Banned
Let's see...I'll have to do 2 separate categories...

Boos:
Xbox One: Riley Reid
PS4: Eva Lovia
Ps4 Pro: Channel Preston
Scorpio: Jayden James

Butt:
Xbox One: Riley Reid
PS4: Channel Preston
Ps4 Pro: Eva Lovia
Scorpio: Alexis Texas

are you content now?

giphy.gif


God damn, lol.
 
It goes both ways.

No one is claiming that scorpio is a match for 1080 specs. All I said was in one particular test it matched it's performance. And btw, with 55-65% of gpu utilization on that test, so it's not like scorpio was being pushed even, they were both eating this game alive.

Nothing there is really unexpected, though.

First party games coded to the metal for a specific console are generally going to perform above their specs compared to their poorly optimized PC port counterparts.

The pendulum swings back the other way in most cases for 3rd party games.

how many teraflops?

ALL OF THEM.
 

Theorry

Member
So Microsoft have created a console more powerful than the Xbox One, goody.

However, it won't have any exclusive games as the games are cross platform to the One and the PC. A gaming PC is likely more powerful and offers more flexibility in terms of mods and cheating etc etc.

So you buy a Scorpio to play the next Halo or Gears or Forza (tired, unoriginal IP, churned out every couple years) with some extra frames and better AA...

...what am I missing here?...

I dont want to play on PC. And i am not even gonna bother on the second statement because your mind on that is pretty clear looks like it.
 

ironcreed

Banned
So Microsoft have created a console more powerful than the Xbox One, goody.

However, it won't have any exclusive games as the games are cross platform to the One and the PC. A gaming PC is likely more powerful and offers more flexibility in terms of mods and cheating etc etc.

So you buy a Scorpio to play the next Halo or Gears or Forza (tired, unoriginal IP, churned out every couple years) with some extra frames and better AA...

...what am I missing here?...

Not everyone is a PC gamer and whatever Microsoft exclusives there are will still be exclusives for Scorpio owners all the same.
 
Well, to be clear, you did in fact claim that:



You then clarified later that you were just speaking about this one situation (which is still wrong, because they were just both reaching a locked framerate, which they could both do in lots of situations). Fine, but it's still a silly and misleading thing to say to people.

The Scorpio is not comparable to a 1080. It's absolutely not.

No, I didn't clarified it later, I clarified it first. That was a direct follow up to this post:

Quoting for those who didn't read all articles:

From what I've seen so far, there is some evidence that Scorpio's true 4K performance could pose a challenge to the likes of Nvidia's GTX 1070 and AMD's Fury X-class hardware. I've seen Microsoft's new console running a Forza Motorsport 6-level experience locked to 4K60 on the equivalent to PC's ultra settings - cranking up the quality presets to obscene levels was one of the first things developer Turn 10 did when confronted with the sheer amount of headroom it had left after a straight Xbox One port. Out of interest, we tested Forza 6 Apex with similar settings at 4K on GTX 1060, 1070 and 1080. Frames were dropped on GTX 1060 (and a lot of them when wet weather conditions kicked in), while GTX 1070 held firm with only the most intense wet weather conditions causing performance dips. Only GTX 1080 held completely solid in all test cases. It's only one data point, and the extent to which the code is comparable at all is debatable, but it certainly doesn't harm Scorpio's credentials: Forza 6 Apex received plenty of praise for the quality of its PC port.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...pio-is-console-hardware-pushed-to-a-new-level

Yeah, it's just on one game, but that game was a stress test with higher settings than the Forza 6 Apex PC release, but on that test Scorpio delivered the performance of a 1080.

It's supremely impressive what Ms achieve there.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=233477043&postcount=3033

So just because you didn't followed up what you are quoting doesn't mean I have to explain every time I quote stuff I just wrote XD
 

frogger

Member
So Microsoft have created a console more powerful than the Xbox One, goody.

However, it won't have any exclusive games as the games are cross platform to the One and the PC. A gaming PC is likely more powerful and offers more flexibility in terms of mods and cheating etc etc.

So you buy a Scorpio to play the next Halo or Gears or Forza (tired, unoriginal IP, churned out every couple years) with some extra frames and better AA...

...what am I missing here?...

LOL
 
So Microsoft have created a console more powerful than the Xbox One, goody.

However, it won't have any exclusive games as the games are cross platform to the One and the PC. A gaming PC is likely more powerful and offers more flexibility in terms of mods and cheating etc etc.

So you buy a Scorpio to play the next Halo or Gears or Forza (tired, unoriginal IP, churned out every couple years) with some extra frames and better AA...

...what am I missing here?...

Not sure. You got "Xbox has no games" and "I'll just game on pc" so you pretty much ticked the typical boxes for this kind of post.
 

G-DannY

Member
So Microsoft have created a console more powerful than the Xbox One, goody.

However, it won't have any exclusive games as the games are cross platform to the One and the PC. A gaming PC is likely more powerful and offers more flexibility in terms of mods and cheating etc etc.

So you buy a Scorpio to play the next Halo or Gears or Forza (tired, unoriginal IP, churned out every couple years) with some extra frames and better AA...

...what am I missing here?...

yeah, bolded a great PC pro.
 
What can i say MS has shown us that they are the masters of X86 hardware and to use the same hardware as in PS4 the PLAYERS money was a TKO. For MS to put it's own IP in the SOC was a TKO. Think about it, Sony will have to pay more for a CPU to match MS DX12 IP that Sony can never use in it's hardware. PS5 with Ryzen next XBOX with Ryzen + DX12 IP. 6TF in a console will match a GTX 1080 in it's highest setting, and that's from only 40 CUs. Forza 7, FH4 and the next Halo all at 4K 60FPS. Take my MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!


"If PC players are the master race then console players are there GOD!"

I like that saying!

6TF PC bad...
6TF Scorpio GOOD! 4K/60fps with 30-40% overhead left.
 

RuhRo

Member
They'd better just be keeping their powder dry for E3 in terms of interesting exclusives. If they've got nothing but the familiar Halo 6 / Forza / Gears of War routine under their hats, they're in trouble.
 
Can you explain how come have you come to this Conclusion? How did you guess the scale without any starting reference.

All the separate parts fit together nicely as you can see, even the screws holes between parts line up well. Look also at the power cable, it fits perfectly on the next part within the fan part. And looking at the size of the disc drive, you can have a guess on how big it is, obviously the final shape is unknown, but I think it's close enough.
 

shandy706

Member
Well, to be clear, you did in fact claim that:



You then clarified later that you were just speaking about this one situation (which is still wrong, because they were just both reaching a locked framerate, which they could both do in lots of situations). Fine, but it's still a silly and misleading thing to say to people.

The Scorpio is not comparable to a 1080. It's absolutely not.

I agree.

It did however apparently hold 60 locked at 4k Ultra better than a GTX 1070....that's incredibly impressive no matter how anyone cuts it.
 
We live in a world where the .53 teraflop difference between PS4 and Xbox One was "massive", "objectively better", and "night and day", but the 1.88 teraflop difference between Scorpio and Pro is only slight and will probably result in no discernable difference in graphical quality.

I'm... I'm not surprised.

Yeah, multiplatform games will look identical on both systems, with the only discernible difference being framerate stability - nothing in terms of the graphics "blowing away" the other version.
 

HardRojo

Member
This, like the Pro, will only make up a fraction of the overall SKU sales. I don't think Sony has to or will react in any significant way other then maybe a price drop.

That's pretty much the extent of Sony's 'retaliation' to Scorpio's launch. Microsoft needs to deliver clear communication this E3, including pricing, software and hardware advantages to win people over. For the time being they've got my attention, and if it turns out to be priced at $399 then I think I'll definitely get one.
 

Matt

Member
No, I didn't clarified it later, I clarified it first. That was a direct follow up to this post:



http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=233477043&postcount=3033

So just because you didn't followed up what you are quoting doesn't mean I have to explain every time I quote stuff I just wrote XD
Well, that last paragraph of yours doesn't really make sense, so I don't know what you are trying to say.

Anyway, enough. A Scorpio won't deliver the performance of a 1080, thinking or saying otherwise is foolish.
 

Upinsmoke

Member
What can i say MS has shown us that they are the masters of X86 hardware and to use the same hardware as in PS4 the PLAYERS money was a TKO. For MS to put it's own IP in the SOC was a TKO. Think about it, Sony will have to pay more for a CPU to match MS DX12 IP that Sony can never use in it's hardware. PS5 with Ryzen next XBOX with Ryzen + DX12 IP. 6TF in a console will match a GTX 1080 in it's highest setting, and that's from only 40 CUs. Forza 7, FH4 and the next Halo all at 4K 60FPS. Take my MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!


"If PC players are the master race then console players are there GOD!"

I like that saying!

6TF PC bad...
6TF Scorpio GOOD! 4K/60fps with 30-40% overhead left.

I can't breathe

TKO
 

Tistru

Junior Member
Now that we finally have some concrete specs, it's pretty easy to see what Xbox Scorpio is bringing to the table when compared to the PS4 Pro. In essence, it's exactly what many of us suspected: Scorprio -> PS4 Pro what PS4 -> Xbox One. In other words, Scorpio is built on the same core architecture but with faster and beefier components compared to PS4 Pro. Even the math checks out: overall compute was ~40% faster on PS4 vs Xbox One & Scorpio is ~43% faster than PS4 pro.

The CPU is essentially an overclocked Jaguar with some tweaks just like PS4 Pro. Scorpio's CPU runs at ~10% higher clock speed which is roughly the same CPU advantage the Xbox One had over the PS4 BTW. The GPU from a design standpoint is not nearly as interesting as we once thought (No Vega). It is basically the same design and architecture of PS4 Pro (AMD Polaris based) but with 4 more Compute Units and a large clock speed increase of ~30% over PS4 Pro's clock speed.

Simply put, Xbox Scorpio just took the place of the OG PS4 in direct spec comparisons with the Xbox One and the difference in multiplatform titles between Scorpio and PS4 Pro will be very similar to what we've seen with PS4 and XB1. Namely, the games on both platform used the same core design with the same quality settings, art assets, and feature sets but generally ran at higher resolution with better performance on PS4. We will see the same thing here with Scorpio and PS4 Pro: games generally look the same but run at higher resolution with slightly better performance on Scorpio (some Scorpio games may have higher quality assets with extra memory). I say slightly better performance because we now know that the CPU is pretty close to the PS4 pro, just slightly faster. That 10% clock speed improvement won't remove many of the CPU bottlenecks we see on a lot of titles and definitely won't be enough to have a 30fps on PS4 pro suddenly run at 60fps on Scorpio. What we really learned today is that Scorpio architecturally is not a radical departure from any of the current console, just a beefier version of them. So don't expect any radical differences with the games.

The real difference with Scorpio on a technical level will come from the boost in memory and memory bandwidth. Scorpio has about 45% more available memory and 50% more memory bandwidth than even PS4 pro. That will allow for many more games to hit native 4K WITH higher quality assets as well. The net result will be much higher fidelity on Scorpio.

The other major difference with Scorpio has little to do with the hardware itself and more to do with the policies and system design as a whole. For example, the benefits of improved image quality (screen tearing, texture filtering), load times, and performance affecting ALL Xbox family titles (XB1 and X360) games is huge, especially for 1080p TV owners. This is something that PS4 Pro could easily do on a technical level but the lack of standardization with Sony's policies leaves PS4 Pro feeling half baked in comparison. Furthermore, decisions like allowing for 4K capture and 4K Bluray playback is more about economics than technical limitations.

Overall, I think Scorpio will be a great thing for Microsoft and the game industry at large. It will go a long way in terms of them winning back developers and will put those new 4K HDR TVs to great use. Price will be higher than PS4 Pro's $399 and as Microsoft has said numerous times, it will be a premium product for a specific type of gamer that is not the majority of the console audience. In other words, you shouldn't expect Scorpio to set the world on fire with it's sales because Microsoft doesn't. It won't do much to shift the overall market share story between Microsoft and Sony. For them Scorpio is a passion and statement product and in that sense I think it will be successful. Ultimately as much as Microsoft craves a "fresh start" Scorpio is still tied to the Xbox One platform. This generation is nearly 4 years old, with developers favoring their engines and their marketing dollars with Sony. There are over 2x the number of gamers playing on Playstation platforms than Xbox currently with nearly 40% more titles available on PS4 platforms. Even if a percentage of PS4 owners buy Scorpio to get the best tech, they still own a PS4 which means Microsoft isn't really "taking anything back" from Sony. Furthermore, having beefier hardware gives you bragging rights but Sony still has a TREMENDOUS lineup of games coming this year and next. The talk of all of the Q1 games is overdone but Sony still has huge exclusives like Gran Turismo, Uncharted Lost Legacy, Spiderman, classic remasters like Wipeout and Crash Bandicoot, and HUGE 3rd party partnerships with Red Dead 2, Destiny 2, Star War Battlefront 2, and Call of Duty this fall. No amount of pixels will trump the sheer quality and quantity of games Sony has in the pipeline. At the end of the day, let's not forget the games are what matter most!
 

Papacheeks

Banned
MS are aware this gen is over as far as who sells the most. Spencer said as much a long time back.

Scorpio is a continuation of the exact same thought process that MS has behind their software. Which is player investment, high ASP, and recurring revenue streams. Scorpio is going to add large amounts of revenue from a smaller base, similar to what they are practicing with changing their 1st party software output to GAAS.

The problem is most on GAF look at sales and the industry strictly as numbers and units and who sells the most. Obviously MS would kill to be in Sony's position. But they aren't and they won't be for this entire generation. The thought process then changes how can they still be successful with a lower unit count and that brings you to getting everything you can out of each individual consumer instead of a larger mass. Thus GAAS and doubling down on ideas to keep those people invested purchasing large ticket, high dollar items like Scorpio keeping them further invested in the Xbox Brand itself.

But games as a Service is why their software is in the state it's in? It's been talked about with people that have insider knowledge. Making those kind of short term investments that usually over time turn your player base off to picking up it's sequel. As seen with For honor right now even though they are addressing it somewhat.

Xbox needs franchise investments without higher up meddling or corporate influence in how revenue is gained through their IP's. I think the new game service XBox is launching is a smart move.

But their software library library and the people that are influencing xbox at the top(not phil) need to let the people at the studio/management level(spencer) make the decisions on games.

Games need to be games and not some kind of hybrid retail/microtransaction game. It's why we are seeing such a huge reinsurance this gen with Japanese games. They mainly are just games with out the shitty Games as a service mentality.
 
This, like the Pro, will only make up a fraction of the overall SKU sales. I don't think Sony has to or will react in any significant way other then maybe a price drop.

I definitely agree in that Scorpio doesn't exactly demand a knee-jerk reaction from Sony.

I'm curious to see what Microsoft's approach will be in the long run with Scorpio. Right now, their pitch is that Scorpio lives alongside One S, but what about the future? Will we see an "Xbox Two" that leaves the "One" family behind? Or will we see a continuation of the iterative model where the current + previous console can both play the same content?

Time will tell! Either way I'm not sure that we'll get an answer to that question any time soon. If Xbox One S might lose its status as the "base" model in a few years, they certainly aren't going to say that right now.
 
What can i say MS has shown us that they are the masters of X86 hardware and to use the same hardware as in PS4 the PLAYERS money was a TKO. For MS to put it's own IP in the SOC was a TKO. Think about it, Sony will have to pay more for a CPU to match MS DX12 IP that Sony can never use in it's hardware. PS5 with Ryzen next XBOX with Ryzen + DX12 IP. 6TF in a console will match a GTX 1080 in it's highest setting, and that's from only 40 CUs. Forza 7, FH4 and the next Halo all at 4K 60FPS. Take my MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!


"If PC players are the master race then console players are there GOD!"

I like that saying!

6TF PC bad...
6TF Scorpio GOOD! 4K/60fps with 30-40% overhead left.

Oh......my.....

We are Through the Looking Glass now
 

vivekTO

Member
All the separate parts fit together nicely as you can see, even the screws holes between parts line up well. Look also at the power cable, it fits perfectly on the next part within the fan part. And looking at the size of the disc drive, you can have a guess on how big it is, obviously the final shape is unknown, but I think it's close enough.

Are you talking about size or shape , cause yes shape is very much in line with S but you can't really judge the Size unless you compare them by aligning some common part. That is why i was asking how can you guess the Size not the shape.Anyway we will know about it at E3.
 

killatopak

Member
What can i say MS has shown us that they are the masters of X86 hardware and to use the same hardware as in PS4 the PLAYERS money was a TKO. For MS to put it's own IP in the SOC was a TKO. Think about it, Sony will have to pay more for a CPU to match MS DX12 IP that Sony can never use in it's hardware. PS5 with Ryzen next XBOX with Ryzen + DX12 IP. 6TF in a console will match a GTX 1080 in it's highest setting, and that's from only 40 CUs. Forza 7, FH4 and the next Halo all at 4K 60FPS. Take my MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!


"If PC players are the master race then console players are there GOD!"

I like that saying!

6TF PC bad...
6TF Scorpio GOOD! 4K/60fps with 30-40% overhead left.

master race doesn't believe in god. now what?
 
So Microsoft have created a console more powerful than the Xbox One, goody.

However, it won't have any exclusive games as the games are cross platform to the One and the PC. A gaming PC is likely more powerful and offers more flexibility in terms of mods and cheating etc etc.

So you buy a Scorpio to play the next Halo or Gears or Forza (tired, unoriginal IP, churned out every couple years) with some extra frames and better AA...

...what am I missing here?...

This is true for me as well, but there are plenty of people out there who don't want to play on PC, either due to the expense, or the hassle of tinkering with settings, drivers, etc. MS didn't arrive at this decision lightly. They have marketing folks. There are real-world numbers at play, here.
 

hooligan

Junior Member
It still doesn't mean much when you're getting this kind of performance from things like the 970/390 in the same game

Thinking you getting anywhere near 1070 performance atm yet alone 1080 is silly.

How can you possibly compare 1440p benchmarking with 4k? Even the 980ti can't hold 60fps on forza 6 apex at 4k - and most tests I've seen don't even run with a full field of cars.
 
Top Bottom