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DigitalFoundry analysis of DOOM for Nintendo Switch

JonnyDBrit

Member
May 14, 2015
7,470
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0
He was trying to do the next best thing by showing doom on an equivalent spec PC so people get an idea of what it looks like on Switch

People haven't actually embraced that though or been grateful lol.

The choice was either that, just stand there talking, or write an article....
And otherwise, highlight how impressive the Switch port is in his view, even if it is running at 30 FPS instead of the much desired 60.

I think particularly after this test, DF's perspective is that on paper, the Switch version should be running a lot worse than it actually was.
 

Garrett Hawke

Member
Jan 24, 2014
24,345
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430
I know it's wishful thinking, but I'd have 0 problems if they downgraded the graphics even further to get this to 60fps. Doom is a pretty game but textures, lighting and model density is the last thing I'm thinking about when I play it.
It already runs at a low dynamic res

You talking 360p?
 

thumb

Banned
Jun 17, 2012
1,513
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I don't think anyone is arguing that 60fps is superior to 30fps. That's the case for every fps.
But that's not what Marty is saying. He's not saying "gee, 60fps is nice!" he's saying that ID software believes it to be essential to the experience of DOOM. So it's not simply that 30fps DOOM is less ideal, it's that it doesn't meet the designer's standard of quality.
 

Kimawolf

Member
Sep 15, 2012
6,172
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0
Missouri
Funny that all these console fans suddenly are frame rate sensitive guys when go to any pc vs console game thread in the past 5 years you get " dude 30fps is acceptable for a console game" and pc elitist comments.


And lets be real 60fps is better on ALL games. Its why i game pn a pc. Most console games are not 60fps. So lets not set too high a standard for consoles now when talking bout a tablet portable.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Jan 9, 2013
26,118
0
0
Funny that all these console fans suddenly are frame rate sensitive guys when go to any pc vs console game thread in the past 5 years you get " dude 30fps is acceptable for a console game" and pc elitist comments.
Who exactly?
 

pa22word

Member
Oct 24, 2010
11,062
0
0
And otherwise, highlight how impressive the Switch port is in his view, even if it is running at 30 FPS instead of the much desired 60.

I think particularly after this test, DF's perspective is that on paper, the Switch version should be running a lot worse than it actually was.
This too. It's pretty dumb of anyone to call this a bad port. They clearly pushed the system much further than they could have to make it the best they could given the system's limited hardware capabilities. If you switch fans consider this a bad port, then I foresee many a switch fanboy meltdowns in future df threads to come on downported ps4/bone games.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Jan 9, 2013
26,118
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The video mentioned that the custom PC build had frame drops that the Switch version didn't have.
The video mentions that some levels were unplayable on PC while playable on Switch, but that there also dips on Switch.
 

psychotron

Member
Dec 23, 2013
3,849
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NY
Before I grab my pitchfork, I think I’ll actually play the game and see how it plays. A solid 30 (yes, I know DF said it’s not yet, but could be eventually) with a nice motion blur can make a lot of difference.
 

Dictator93

Member
Jun 29, 2011
23,813
4
570
I don't know if it's fair to call this a bad port. Seems like they did everything they can given the hardware it has to run on.
Exactly.
Some ports can be just bad ports. It's not a critique towards Switch. Bad ports can be criticised and in the end they will just hurt Switch rather than help it, creating the false impression that there isn't a market on Switch for these kind of games.

Hopefully Skyrim will sell well enough to keep Bethesda on board even if DOOM fails. Who knows, maybe enough people won't care about the quality of the DOOM port and it will not fail in the end.
A toaster can run DOOM in 60fps.
It's a bad port.
Like has been stated, without really knowing how much CPU or GPU utilisation is going on here, saying it is a "bad port" is rather uncalled for. I would bet the problem is the Switch's CPU, not its GPU. Hence why they left on comparatively "expensive" GPU effects like bokeh depth of field and per object motion blur.

Doom in Vulkan has incrediblly good CPU utilisation on my PC, and to get 60 fps requires a CPU that is more powerful than that which is found in the switch. So to get the "port" to 60 fps on Switch, they would probably have to make cuts to level design, monster counts, and even simulation tasks - basically how older PC to console ports were. Would people want that game? Would a publisher pay to do that? That is a lot of work.
 

Donnie

Member
Mar 24, 2005
2,857
17
1,265
Digital Foundry have nothing but praise for this game and they've played it. Maybe people on here who haven't played it (which is everyone) should listen to them instead of posting stuff about what they "think" it will be like given a number they've read..
 

Otnopolit

Member
Nov 22, 2012
1,122
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Massachusetts
We remain without any actual, new footage to analyze. I think we're just riding around the block endlessly until we get more later today when the embargo really breaks. For real this time...
 

heringer

Member
Jan 7, 2009
9,077
0
0
Funny that all these console fans suddenly are frame rate sensitive guys when go to any pc vs console game thread in the past 5 years you get " dude 30fps is acceptable for a console game" and pc elitist comments.


And lets be real 60fps is better on ALL games. Its why i game pn a pc. Most console games are not 60fps. So lets not set too high a standard for consoles now when talking bout a tablet portable.
But it's Doom! For Doom it is essential because it's a fast game, and every single fast game is played at 60 fps on consoles! Always have been!
 
Apr 28, 2012
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You are really asking me for proof on people downplaying the importance of 60FPS when comparing PC and console versions?

That... that I wasn't expecting lol.
You said it's the same users, so surely you can provide some quotes of posters in this thread that have previously said what you're claiming.

So go ahead.
Funny that all these console fans suddenly are frame rate sensitive guys when go to any pc vs console game thread in the past 5 years you get " dude 30fps is acceptable for a console game" and pc elitist comments.
Same thing. Who are these console fans doing what you say they are?
 

Danneee

Member
Jun 12, 2009
5,934
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pici.se
Meh, 30fps is enough for a pass from me at least day 1. But I’ll most likely pick it up on some sale later on.

Edit: it’s a great game though and I urge anyone who are on the edge with nothing else to play it on but a Switch to buy this!
 
Sep 25, 2016
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Doom is the most technically advanced 60FPS game on consoles right now. Some of the effects it pushes is at a level of quality that is even superior to its 30FPS counterparts. It's quite GPU heavy and as such I expected it to be 30FPS considering how it looked (most of the effects seemed intact) but didn't say anything because I knew people would be dismissive about it.


Id tech 6 is a great engine that scales really well.
The developers can't please anyone on here.

Cut graphical effects = people cry.
Cut framerate in half but keep much of the impressive visual tech = people cry.

In the reality of the market, DOOM on Switch will probably sell over a million copies and be a raging success because the average Joe doesn't even know what framerate is nevermind noticing the difference between 30 and 60. Most people will be quite rightly astounded with how fantastic a PS4/XBO game looks running on a 6" tablet that you can take anywhere with you. Ports like this really aren't aimed at people like us who read and post on enthusiast gaming forums, love Digital Foundry videos and who in most cases already own either PS4, XBO, PS4P or PC and can play it at 60fps with better visuals on those.

Compromises will have to be made to bring PS4/XBO multiplatform games to Switch be it resolution, graphical fidelity, framerate or a combination of all three. For DOOM they have chosen framerate because the 1GHz CPU probably meant that 60fps was impossible no matter how much they scaled back resolution and graphical fidelity.

I have the game on PS4 but have yet to play it yet. Does anyone know if there a PS4 Pro patch coming at the same time as the XBOX patch?

Great video as usual from Digital Foundry. Keep up the good work guys! Not that I'm one to force things for the sake of it but what's the chances of a female contributer at some point?
 

pa22word

Member
Oct 24, 2010
11,062
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0
Like has been stated, without really knowing how much CPU or GPU utilisation is going on here, saying it is a "bad port" isr ather uncalled for. I would bet the problem is the Switch's CPU, not its GPU. Hence why they left on comparatively "expensive" GPU effects like bokeh depth of field and per object motion blur.

Doom in Vulkan has incrediblly good CPU utilisation on my PC, and to get 60 fps requires a CPU that is more powerful than that which is found in the switch. So to get the "port" to 60 fps on Switch, they would probably have to make cuts to level design, monster counts, and even simulation tasks - basically how older PC to console ports were. Would people want that game? Would a publisher pay to do that? That is a lot of work.
Yep. I know someone has the "Gafman's Guide to the CPU Bottlenecked Videogame" floating around here somewhere. Needs to be required posting in any df thread, really.
 

kc44135

Member
Oct 20, 2015
2,491
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Edit: DigitalFoundry has removed the video because they apparently jumped the gun and accidentally broke embargo. But it's too late, I saw it all!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXxDKgqBWXA&feature=push-u-sub&attr_tag=ACH_EsU6gPgjvy4R-6

They're impressed, but it's 30fps

Port by "Switch experts" Panic Button, who are also doing the Rocket League port

Note that although he did play the game on Switch, there is no actual footage of the Switch version in this video

All of his impressions are based on playing in UNDOCKED mode

  • Most ambitious cross platform Switch port yet
  • "Utterly insane, how did they do that?"
  • Post process pipeline mostly intact
  • 30fps cap was "inevitable"
  • Depth of field reduced but not removed
  • Resolution is lower on Switch, dynamic, unsure of exact count
  • Reduced textures
  • "It's a good port!"
He's really looking forward to testing the final Switch version because he believes it will demolish a PC with equivalent specs

Final word:
Jesus, this is like some VITA level shit right here. Pass.
 

EDarkness

Member
May 13, 2007
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Digital Foundry have nothing but praise for this game and they've played it. Maybe people on here who haven't played it (which is everyone) should listen to them instead of posting stuff about what they "think" it will be like given a number they've read..
Doesn't change the fact that it's 30fps, though. That changes the narrative for some people. Some folks can live with that compromise and others can't. The game is 60fps on all other pieces of hardware....
 

Taker666

Member
Apr 26, 2005
4,060
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To be frank..it's a really stupid video for digital foundry to do at this stage in the format they have.

Either do it based on the actual build of the Switch game or not at all. I really see no point in doing a video analysis based on a PC trying to use similar specs to the Switch to run the game and the games trailer.

By all means talk about the build you played and its framerate etc... but there's zero point in the rest of it IMO.
 

knerl

Member
Jun 26, 2014
959
1
285
As much as it is about higher framerates it's also about fancy visuals. As long as it doesn't drop below 30 and has a resolution no lower than that of let's say Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle I'm ok with it. Docked I'll probably be disappointed. Wonder how things would have looked if they didn't gimp the Tegra X1 as much as they did.
 

jett

D-Member
Jun 6, 2004
98,879
3
1,765
Aaaaaand I'm out.
If that's another sub 720p game in handheld mode, they can keep this shit for good.
I don't want to put you on the specifically, but I'm gonna remind some people what Doom looks like.











That is running on the Switch at all is a feat.
 

sirap

Member
Mar 1, 2013
6,110
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0
Malaysia
It already runs at a low dynamic res

You talking 360p?
No, there are many ways to optimize besides turning down resolution.

Reducing shader complexity is one of them, as well as turning down particles. Those things suck away performance like crazy. Turning off post-processing effects should gain you a few frames too, and there's still the tried and true method of lowering geometry detail (although this can be a pita if you have to rework skinning)

I do sympathize with the devs porting this though. There's only so much you can do without changing the look of the game. They made a choice and went with preserving the game's aesthetics.
 

Effect

Member
Jun 15, 2007
21,774
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We remain without any actual, new footage to analyze. I think we're just riding around the block endlessly until we get more later today when the embargo really breaks. For real this time...
So the video had no footage at all? Yet some people are losing their minds? Come on people!
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Jan 9, 2013
26,118
0
0
Digital Foundry have nothing but praise for this game and they've played it. Maybe people on here who haven't played it (which is everyone) should listen to them instead of posting stuff about what they "think" it will be like given a number they've read..
Dips under 540p, dips under 30 fps, lower settings than lowest PC settings. Runs great for a tablet. Yeah, all around praises in that video.
 

knkng

Member
Apr 16, 2007
2,216
0
0
No, no hyperbole at all. Ever watched one of those shitty action movies with fast cuts and shaky cam?
It really does hurt some people's eyes. Same with fast games especially with FP camera.
Fast cuts and shaky cam don't hurt your eyes, they create a sense of nausea or mental stress because they are disorienting and can't be properly processed.

If Doom is nauseating or painful to you at 30fs, then it should also be painful at 60fps, because what you are experiencing is motion sickness. Your brain is capable of filling in the "missing" 30 frames per second without issue. It is not comparable to fast editing where there is a disruption in the flow of movement (same with shaky cam).

This would be like saying that watching someone chop vegetables at 30fps is painful because the knife moves fast and your brain can't comprehend it.
 

Buggy Loop

Member
Jun 9, 2004
5,126
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0
Quebec, canada
"It's a good port"

Alright, that's the only thing i needed to hear. Sold.

I own it on Steam, i already had the definitive experience. I'm not expecting a 11W handheld to match it. 30 fps is fine.
 

LordKano

Member
Jul 11, 2016
8,061
40
310
Brussels, Belgium.
It can be played at 30fps quite comfortably... and you're ignoring the fact people have already said it's a good port and fun to play.
I don't really care about how people feel about this port, good on them if they find it enjoyable, I'm not going to dictate how they should feel, but in my opinion, DOOM at 30fps, no matter the visual settings, is not a good version. It may look good, but if it doesn't feel good to play there's absolutely no point. And it can't play good at 30fps.

This applies to the upcoming Wolfenstein II port too.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Sep 9, 2006
27,410
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To be frank..it's a really stupid video for digital foundry to do at this stage.

Either do it based on the actual build of the Switch game or not at all. I really see no point in doing a video analysis based on a PC trying to use similar specs to the Switch to run the game and a trailer.

By all means talk about the build you played and its framerate etc... but there's zero point in the rest of it.
Right now everything Switch related means buzz and clicks and it seems like they jumped the gun on this one. I like their analysis usually but would it have killed them to wait with the video until they have footage of the Switch version?

It's not like DF has much competition out there and people wouldn't wanna watch their videos if the drop it a bit later than other gaming outlets.
 
Aug 17, 2011
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I don't know how people played it with dual analogs to be honest, yet here we are.
Yep, more hyperbole yet! Doom became one of my favourite games of all time, playing exclusively via dual analogs.

People really need to understand and accept that their preferences are their own. This isn't a bad port or is destined to do badly just because you can't cope with a game in 30fps.

But then I grew up playing the GBA Doom where all the enemies looked like pixelated blobs so maybe I'm easily pleased?
I don't really care about how people feel about this port, good on them if they find it enjoyable, I'm not going to dictate how they should feel, but in my opinion, DOOM at 30fps, no matter the visual settings, is not a good version. It may look good, but if it doesn't feel good there's absolutely no point.
They've said it felt good. Next?
 

hiim_haz

Banned
Sep 19, 2016
297
0
0
I'll take the word of DF over anyone here saying it's a bad port without playing it.

Also, despite the fact that I played it already at 60FPS I'd still like to try it on the Switch just for the fact that it's a portable version of Doom, and that's awesome.
 

PantsuJo

Member
Jun 19, 2015
4,077
1
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The developers can't please anyone on here.

Cut graphical effects = people cry.
Cut framerate in half but keep much of the impressive visual tech = people cry.

In the reality of the market, DOOM on Switch will probably sell over a million copies and be a raging success because the average Joe doesn't even know what framerate is nevermind noticing the difference between 30 and 60.
Are you talking about the entire Switch entire lifetime? If yes, it's possibile, sure.

But the current launch price is high; you can find DOOM on concurrent platform for 20$ or less (I mean, even 10$). I don't think it will sell a lot in the first months, at the price of 60$.

But, hey, we'll see