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[Carnby]

I have been watch Disney movies with my son. I usually pick ones that I have never seen before. This weekend it was Pocahontas.

Growing up I remember this movie being a huge success. Now that I've finally seen it, I don't understand why it was so beloved. While I'm offended* by many things in the movie, such as by the depiction of Native American's actually being magical, Disney's attempt at making Native's look equally guilty/blood thristy as the settlers who crapped up their land, speaking to mother nature in the form of a tree, and the unlikeable sidekicks of Nico, stupid hummingbird, and worthless sailor boy played by Christian Bale, nothing was more offensive than Mel Gibson's performance of John Smith.

Holy cow, he phoned this one in. Maybe its because his performance was surrounded by legit and talented voice actors. His delivery made me question if he even put an effort into his acting for this movie. Most of his line were corny as hell, it didn't help that were spoken with his lackadaisical performance. "I'd rather die tomorrow than live the rest of my life not knowing you." oi...


*Offended may be a bit strong of a word to use, but I did roll my eyes a lot.

 

[entremet]

Pocahontas was the end of the Disney Animation renaissance, which peaked with Lion King.

 

[Sanjay]

Watch The New World, its the only good film Terrence Malick has ever made.

Pocahontas was the end of the Disney Animation renaissance, which peaked with Lion King.

No, Tangled is a classic, Disney at their best.

 

[NintendoGal]

And not to mention how inaccurate it is to the actual story of Pocahontas and John Smith.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

At least the musical numbers are good and the animation is gorgeous. If it didn't have those two, I probably wouldn't even remember it happened at all.

Pocahontas was the end of the Disney Animation renaissance, which peaked with Lion King.

Hunchback and Hercules are fantastic films. Lilo and Stitch is also worth noting, even if it's likely outside of their "renaissance" period.

 

[Discotheque]

Watch The New World, its the only good film Terrence Malick has ever made.

this is a stupid ass post. but still OP you should watch New World. It's pretty damn great.

 

[Window]

Watch The New World, its the only good film Terrence Malick has ever made.

Probably the first time I've seen someone like The New World but not like his other films. It's usually the other way around.

 

[UnblessedSoul]

Pocahontas is a classic, shits all over what they put out nowadays

 

[Sanjay]

this is a stupid ass post. but still OP you should watch New World. It's pretty damn great.

We agree, that's all that matters.

 

[entremet]

At least the musical numbers are good and the animation is gorgeous. If it didn't have those two, I probably wouldn't even remember it happened at all.



Hunchback and Hercules are fantastic films. Lilo and Stitch is also worth noting, even if it's likely outside of their "renaissance" period.

Sure.

I'm also talking about major box office blockbusters as well. Disney, Eisner at the time, wanted to replicate the Box Office receipt of The Lion King and never really did after that.

Not until Pixar and Dreamworks did animation gain mega blockbuster receipt again.

 

[Discotheque]

well disney aint shit anymore anyways. tangled isn't a good film. it just looks fantastic due to the animation but damn that film kinda sucked.

rango was better (on a technical scale as well)

 

[TacticalFox88]

John Smith is the definition of a generic character.

Ugh

 

[FStop7]

I have been watch Disney movies with my son. I usually pick ones that I have never seen before. This weekend it was Pocahontas.

Growing up I remember this movie being a huge success. Now that I've finally seen it, I don't understand why it was so beloved. While I'm offended* by many things in the movie, such as by the depiction of Native American's actually being magical, Disney's attempt at making Native's look equally guilty/blood thristy as the settlers who crapped up their land, speaking to mother nature in the form of a tree, and the unlikeable sidekicks of Nico, stupid hummingbird, and worthless sailor boy played by Christian Bale, nothing was more offensive than Mel Gibson's performance of John Smith.

Holy cow, he phoned this one in. Maybe its because his performance was surrounded by legit and talented voice actors. His delivery made me question if he even put an effort into his acting for this movie. Most of his line were corny as hell, it didn't help that were spoken with his lackadaisical performance. "I'd rather die tomorrow than live the rest of my life not knowing you." oi...


*Offended by be a bit strong of a word to use, but I did roll my eyes a lot.

 

[Carnby]

I'm not sure which is funnier. The gif or the fact that you have that gif on hand and ready for use.

2 much Pocahontas magic 4 me

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

Yeah, it was. I've been a Disney fan my whole life[to that point] but this was the first one that I could honestly say I didn't enjoy at least a little.

 

[Superflat]

Pocahontas was the end of the Disney Animation renaissance, which peaked with Lion King.

I may agree that Lion King was the peak, but I still loved Lilo & Stitch and Treasure Planet. The film that pretty much killed the era was Home on the Range. Yikes.

Beauty and the Beast is probably my favorite traditional Disney animated film ever.

 

[daviyoung]

No, Tangled is a classic, Disney at their best.

Tangled is as forgettable as Dinosaur, Chicken Little and Emperor's New Groove.

Disney made only 4 amazing movies after the 80s, and those were Beauty and The Beast, Aladdin, Lion King and Cool Runnings.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

well disney aint shit anymore anyways. tangled isn't a good film. it just looks fantastic due to the animation but damn that film kinda sucked.

rango was better (on a technical scale as well)

Yeah, say what you will about Pocahantas, but at least it stuck in my mind. Tangled is a slapstick musical fantasy that does none of those things particularly well, just kind of treads water for a while and then ends. (I feel the same way about Up, which I think only has a single good act - the first)

Kung Fu Panda 2 is the best animated film since Wall-E.

 

[SmithnCo]

It is a pretty big bastardization of the story. Has a couple good songs though, I'll give it that.

 

[T.M. MacReady]

if Pocahontas "offends you", I think you need to lighten up. Its a musical cartoon for kids, not a documentary being taught in schools.

 

[R10Neymarfan]

JUST AROUND THE RIVERBEND!

 

[SeanR1221]

Pocahontas was the end of the Disney Animation renaissance, which peaked with Lion King.

Yup. Even as a kid I knew this.

I hated Pocahontas and all the following animated movies. Movies before Pocahontas? I'd watch constantly.

 

[WillyFive]

Pocahontas was the end of the Disney Animation renaissance, which peaked with Lion King.

Tarzan is considered to be the official ending of renaissance, as starting with Fantasia 2000 the back-to-back success streak had ended.

And besides, Mulan, Hunchback, and Tarzan are fantastic movies; especially this number from Hunchback which is still one of the absolute highest points of that renaissance.

 

[entremet]

I wonder if we'll ever get The Song of the South Bluray....

 

[Grizzlyjin]

You probably enjoyed Tarzan, didn't you?

 

[Superflat]

Kung Fu Panda 2 is the best animated film since Wall-E.

You know, if you told me that a CG animated comedy film about a fat panda that does kung fu voiced by Jack Black was an amazing film, I'd slap you. But I really liked both Kung Fu Panda movies. KFP2 was exceptionally good from a technical level.

edit: How to Train Your Dragon was good too. Dreamworks is stepping it up.

 

[maquiladora]

Not to mention how racist and sexist it is apart from being terrible.

 

[Darksol]

The movie shits on history and it's no surprise the white folk come out much more admirably than they actually behaved.

 

[daviyoung]

Tarzan is considered to be the official ending of renaissance, as starting with Fantasia 2000 the back-to-back success streak had ended.

lol, official

whoever counts Mulan in the same breath as Aladdin doesn't deserve to have any authority within the cartoon renaissance governing body

 

[entremet]

lol, official

whoever counts Mulan in the same breath as Aladdin doesn't deserve to have any authority within the cartoon renaissance governing body

Yep.

The streak was awesome and we did get some good movies in the mix, like Tarzan, but the streak ended at Lion King.

 

[WillyFive]

lol, official

whoever counts Mulan in the same breath as Aladdin doesn't deserve to have any authority within the cartoon renaissance governing body

They are both about the same quality (as in, really good), neither of them are as good as Lion King, Beauty, and Mermaid. The only one I'd say was pretty poor was Hercules, and even that one had great art design.

 

[FStop7]

if Pocahontas "offends you", I think you need to lighten up. Its a musical cartoon for kids, not a documentary being taught in schools.

I think kids appreciate honesty more than you think. The story could be told just as well without the candy coating.

Better than Song of the South, I suppose.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

This movie was basically Kazenberg and co.'s response to Beauty and the Beast not winning the Best Picture oscar.

Katzenberg got greedy after that, and basically changed the entire film that had been bouncing around in pre-production for a while up to that point so that it could be seen as Oscar-candy for the Academy. Changes such as taking voice actor John Candy off the project(because he's too funny for a project like this), and aging up the 12-year old Pocahontas so they could have a more 'mature' romance story. Originally, the film was supposed to be more kid-friendly and fun. Alas, it was not to be. Instead, we got a picture that's trying to be more Oscar-friendly, but completely failing in every regard and instead just coming off as hollow and empty.

A little bit of that trickled into 'Hunchback' as well, though I would argue that was a much stronger film than Pocahontas was.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

You know, if you told me that a CG animated comedy film about a fat panda that does kung fu voiced by Jack Black was an amazing film, I'd slap you. But I really liked both Kung Fu Panda movies. KFP2 was exceptionally good from a technical level.

edit: How to Train Your Dragon was good too. Dreamworks is stepping it up.

I didn't particularly care for the first Kung Fu Panda or How to Train Your Dragon (fine movies, just not great or noteworthy), but Kung Fu Panda 2 has amazing action, decent jokes, and a solid and occasionally unpredictable plot. It's the full package. It's also incredible looking.

The movie shits on history and it's no surprise the white folk come out much more admirably than they actually behaved.

Disney makes all of their movies much happier than the source. That being said, a movie about Pocahontas and John Smith never should have been greenlit.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

No, Tangled is a classic, Disney at their best.

I like you.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

Never been one of my favorites, but it one of the best looking ones from the 90's. Kind of wish Mulan had an equally strong visual design, since it is the better film

 

[PowderedToast]

has arguably the best composition and framing of any non-walt film. it's immaculate. shits all over the lion king in that regard. the writing is so-so, but hey it's a disney film.

compare this to something like mulan and observe the gulf in quality. much like lion king mulan barely has any backgrounds. you can tell that pocahontas was the prestige project inside and out, it's staggeringly gorgeous at times.

demolishes anything they are putting out nowadays

 

[kazebyaka]

Not the best Disney movie, but has some really great songs. I enjoyed it.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

lol, official

whoever counts Mulan in the same breath as Aladdin doesn't deserve to have any authority within the cartoon renaissance governing body

Even quality aside, if you're looking at the box office gross of their films there is a dropoff from Tarzan to stuff like Treasure Planet, Brother Bear, Atlantis, Emperor's New Groove, etc. I think the only one in that time frame that bucked the trend critically and financially was Lilo & Stitch.

 

[ivysaur12]

At least Pocohauntis looks good. But its a racist, sexist boring film.

Lilo & Stich is good fun. So is Tangled.

(I sort of liked The Emperor's New Groove )

 

[WillyFive]

At least Pocohauntis looks good. But its a racist, sexist boring film.

Lilo & Stich is good fun. So is Tangled.

(I sort of liked The Emperor's New Groove )

Emperor's New Groove was very funny and had great art, but it wasn't good at much else.

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

We all agree that Tarzan was fucking awesome right?

Also, I've noticed that Aladdin doesn't get much love. It was huge when it released, but I hardly hear anyone ever mention it when discussing Disney anymore.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Never liked this movie. Reading about the history of it is fascinating though.

We all agree that Tarzan was fucking awesome right?

Also, I've noticed that Aladdin doesn't get much love. It was huge when it released, but I hardly hear anyone ever mention it when discussing Disney anymore.

I love Tarzan and Aladdin.

 

[ganon]

Pocahontas has some really great songs though.

 

[ivysaur12]

Emperor's New Groove was very funny and had great art, but it wasn't good at much else.

Oh, absolutely not. But it was funny when I was a kid.

 

[meijiko]

The only thing I liked about it as a kid was the music. As I grew up that extended to the art design as well, but other than that I don't think that movie ever clicked with me. It always felt off.

And pretty much every kid I knew had been told that it was historically inaccurate. People made a really big deal about it when it was popular, at least in my circle.

 

[Discotheque]

has arguably the best composition and framing of any non-walt film. it's immaculate. shits all over the lion king in that regard. the writing is so-so, but hey it's a disney film.

compare this to something like mulan and observe the gulf in quality. much like lion king mulan barely has any backgrounds. you can tell that pocahontas was the prestige project inside and out, it's staggeringly gorgeous at times.

demolishes anything they are putting out nowadays

Forreal I don't like the movie but it certainly looks better than other Disney films of the 90s and up

Beauty and the beast is my favorite of all their films though

Lion King and Tarzan have fantastic soundtracks

 

[soundscream]

this is a stupid ass post. but still OP you should watch New World. It's pretty damn great.

Was channel surfing and caught the last 5 minutes on HBO the other day. I forgot how amazing the movie looks, the music and cinematography are nuts.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

We all agree that Tarzan was fucking awesome right?

Also, I've noticed that Aladdin doesn't get much love. It was huge when it released, but I hardly hear anyone ever mention it when discussing Disney anymore.

It is fucking awesome

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

Emperor's New Groove was very funny and had great art, but it wasn't good at much else.

I wish The Sweatbox was available for more public viewing. Knowing what went down for Emperor's New Groove will make you respect the film even more for knowing that it went through so many iterations and came out not shit.

Basically the film started out as an epic in the Lion King vein, but things became really muddled and confused so they brought in another director who went in a slapstick direction.