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[ScOULaris]

So I used a test image on my PS4 to see if my TV supported full RGB, and sure enough I could properly see all the black gradient boxes with Full RGB enabled. Great! I'll just set all my consoles to Full RGB and enjoy the increased spectrum. I set my Switch to full, and everything looked good with no noticeable black crush or anything.

Then I went to set my PS3 to Full RGB, and right away I noticed some black crush. I pulled up the same test image on my PS3 browser, and now I can't make out the first row of dark squares at all. Suddenly it's like my TV doesn't support full RGB, but it only behaves that way on my PS3.

Does anyone know what might cause this difference in output between the two systems? For now I just set my PS3 back to limited, but I'd like to use Full there as well since my TV seems to support it.

 

[Audioboxer]

Are your PS3 and PS4 on different HDMI inputs or put through a sound system/splitter on the same HDMI going to the TV?

If your PS3 is hooked up to it's own HDMI input it sounds like that input isn't set up to support RGB full. Different TVs call it different things. On my Bravia, it's "Enhanced HDMI". That has to be turned on for each HDMI input for the TV to accept an RBG full PS3/PS4 setting.

Basically, the above needs to be turned on for each HDMI input as it's variable. HDMI 1 could be on standard, HDMI 2 on enhanced. Most TVs allow this for compatibility reasons. Find out what setting it is on your TV for an RGB full signal and make sure each one is on. If you're running through 1 HDMI going to the TV due to a sound system being used that complicates matters as to why the PS3 is crushing blacks.

 

[iMax]

So I used a test image on my PS4 to see if my TV supported full RGB, and sure enough I could properly see all the black gradient boxes with Full RGB enabled. Great! I'll just set all my consoles to Full RGB and enjoy the increased spectrum. I set my Switch to full, and everything looked good with no noticeable black crush or anything.

This is a misnomer.

If you're on a TV, you should really just use limited/16-235, especially if you're consuming non-game media on the same device.

You're not necessarily seeing an "increased spectrum". Your TV is just resampling the signal to the gradations supported by the panel's pixels (not the TV's firmware). Both will look the same, as long as both devices are setup with matching settings.

 

[ScOULaris]

Are your PS3 and PS4 on different HDMI inputs or put through a sound system/splitter on the same HDMI going to the TV?

If your PS3 is hooked up to it's own HDMI input it sounds like that input isn't set up to support RGB full. Different TVs call it different things. On my Bravia, it's "Enhanced HDMI". That has to be turned on for each HDMI input for the TV to accept an RBG full PS3/PS4 setting.

All of my consoles are on the same HDMI input with the same video settings. I just swap the cable when I want to switch between systems.

 

[Audioboxer]

All of my consoles are on the same HDMI input with the same video settings. I just swap the cable when I want to switch between systems.

That complicates things then. Can you find out what your TV setting is to support RGB full? The rest of GAF can chime in what it is for other brands such as Panasonic/etc. I think one of them calls it "Wide blacks" or "Wide something". Or something with "Black" in the name. I think Samsung TVs just call it "Black Level" with an option of "Normal = Full" or "Low = Limited".

Keep in mind your TV does need to support RGB full. It's not a given every set does. Some only truly support limited. For now, ignore how you think things appear on PS4/Switch and double check your TV does.

Alternatively, if you dump your TV model number here detective GAF will find out in seconds.

 

[ScOULaris]

That complicates things then. Can you find out what your TV setting is to support RGB full? The rest of GAF can chime in what it is for other brands such as Panasonic/etc. I think one of them calls it "Wide blacks" or "Wide something". Or something with "Black" in the name.

Keep in mind your TV does need to support RGB full. It's not a given every set does. Some only truly support limited. For now, ignore how you think things appear on PS4/Switch and double check your TV does.

I've googled around, but I can't find any confirmation anywhere for my set.

I have an Insignia ns-50d550na15.

 

[III-V]

So I used a test image on my PS4 to see if my TV supported full RGB, and sure enough I could properly see all the black gradient boxes with Full RGB enabled. Great! I'll just set all my consoles to Full RGB and enjoy the increased spectrum. I set my Switch to full, and everything looked good with no noticeable black crush or anything.

Then I went to set my PS3 to Full RGB, and right away I noticed some black crush. I pulled up the same test image on my PS3 browser, and now I can't make out the first row of dark squares at all. Suddenly it's like my TV doesn't support full RGB, but it only behaves that way on my PS3.

Does anyone know what might cause this difference in output between the two systems? For now I just set my PS3 back to limited, but I'd like to use Full there as well since my TV seems to support it.

Can you post the test image so others can try?

 

[ScOULaris]

Can you post the test image so others can try?

http://www.nicolaspeople.com/ch3rokeesblog/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/fullrgb_test.jpg

 

[Audioboxer]

I've googled around, but I can't find any confirmation anywhere for my set.

I have an Insignia ns-50d550na15.

The manual is here but a really quick skim brings up nothing ~ https://www.insigniaproducts.com/pdp/NS-50D550NA15/2878482

If there isn't a setting on your TV menu I'd say to air on the side of caution and accept it only supports limited. It's sometimes called "PC mode" as well. For compatibility reasons, TVs need to have a menu setting for RGB input settings.

This.

Set your console to Limited, TV to Limited.

Set your console to Full, TV to Full.

Same image.

Full RGB for TVs is only relevant if you're hooking up a PC.

Full RGB setting in consoles is only relevant if you're hooking up to a monitor.

Not quite, because games can take advantage of RGB full. It's video content that is often (if not always) created within 16-235.

 

[Vashetti]

This is a misnomer.

If you're on a TV, you should really just use limited/16-235, especially if you're consuming non-game media on the same device.

You're not necessarily seeing an "increased spectrum". Your TV is just resampling the signal to the gradations supported by the panel's pixels (not the TV's firmware). Both will look the same, as long as both devices are setup with matching settings.

This.

Set your console to Limited, TV to Limited.

Set your console to Full, TV to Full.

Same image.

Full RGB for TVs is only relevant if you're hooking up a PC.

Full RGB setting in consoles is only relevant if you're hooking up to a monitor.

 

[Audioboxer]

It's late and it's time for me to sleep as I made a big mistake above. Enhanced HDMI isn't what I meant.

On a Bravia TV it's listed as Dynamic range

From my own images from a while back xD http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=225090030&postcount=1003

Best just to leave it on auto. My PS4 defaults to RGB full when it's on auto as well, and importantly, it has to switch to limited when HDR is in use. HDR is a whole other headache of settings mayhem as per my post in the topic above. Hence 26 pages of discussion.

For the OP if there is nothing in your TV menu settings for "Black level"/"Dynamic Range"/"PC Mode"/"RGB x" then leave the PS4 on auto and I'd say it's best to put the PS3 on Limited (Switch on auto if it has that for a setting or limited).

 

[iMax]

Not quite, because games can take advantage of RGB full. It's video content that is often (if not always) created within 16-235.

Yes, but there's no "advantage" to take advantage of. You'll struggle to find a TV that has pixels (not firmware) that can output 255 gradations.

 

[Conjo]

Yes, but there's no "advantage" to take advantage of. You'll struggle to find a TV that has pixels (not firmware) that can output 255 gradations.

I might be misinformed, but isn't thanks to the fact that there are TVs like that or better that we have HDR now?

 

[mindsale]

This seems like a group that's in the know, and only tangentially related, BUT -

I lost the power cable for a PS4 (OG). I have a PS3 Super Slim not plugged in. Are their power cables identical?

 

[iMax]

I might be misinformed, but isn't thanks to the fact that there are TVs like that or better that we have HDR now?

To an extent, although HDR is arguably far more about the range of luminosity rather than the levels of gradation. However, 10-bit panels that support HDR don't actually use use 16-235/0-255 at all.

 

[AuthenticM]

why are TVs so complicated? Why can't they be simpler and more standardized?

 

[Audioboxer]

Yes, but there's no "advantage" to take advantage of. You'll struggle to find a TV that has pixels (not firmware) that can output 255 gradations.

I just put everything on auto now anyway lol. As I said above my PS4 defaults to RGB full and switches to limited when HDR kicks in. My shield TV defaults to RGB limited on auto, but that is fine, it's just used for video content.

Ultimately what matters most at the end of the day is intensive calibration. Just make sure you aren't trying to calibrate a picture you're inflicting with crushed blacks due to manually messing around with RGB settings.

This seems like a group that's in the know, and only tangentially related, BUT -

I lost the power cable for a PS4 (OG). I have a PS3 Super Slim not plugged in. Are their power cables identical?

Random question to drop by but isn't the PS4 3 prong? Or is that the Pro... Can't check right now. I think the PS4 is two prong and the pro is three. Either way, if it fits it's fine. The PS power supplies are universal. PS4 to PS3 should both be two prong.

 

[Conjo]

This seems like a group that's in the know, and only tangentially related, BUT -

I lost the power cable for a PS4 (OG). I have a PS3 Super Slim not plugged in. Are their power cables identical?

Isn't it just a standard cable? it should work

To an extent, although HDR is arguably far more about the range of luminosity rather than the levels of gradation. However, 10-bit panels that support HDR don't actually use use 16-235/0-255 at all.

Oh, interesting.

why are TVs so complicated? Why can't they be simpler and more standardized?

idk but I hate it. I still get confused with LG if by black level: "low" they mean 0-255 (because 0 is smaller than 16) or that it has a lower range (so they'd mean 16-235)

 

[pa22word]

Full range is weird on PS4 it absolutely crushes blacks on my monitor. It's whatever though, I just set the monitor to limited and go from there. Kind of a pain in the ass switching back and forth though T_T

 

[iMax]

I just put everything on auto now anyway lol. As I said above my PS4 defaults to RGB full and switches to limited when HDR kicks in. My shield TV defaults to RGB limited on auto, but that is fine, it's just used for video content.

Ultimately what matters most at the end of the day is intensive calibration. Just make sure you aren't trying to calibrate a picture you're inflicting with crushed blacks due to manually messing around with RGB settings.

Well, that's another thing. I'm not sure what the state of affairs is presently but 'Automatic' settings have been bugged for me in the past, sometimes mismatching device and television settings.

 

[ScOULaris]

Hm, sounds like I should just stick with Automatic, which defaults to Limited on my TV. Some good info in this thread, especially regarding the pixels on most TV's that aren't really high-end being unable to actually display the extended range of gradations. Since my TV's settings make no mention of RGB or PC Mode I'm assuming that it doesn't actually support Full after all.

Time to switch back and recalibrate to the Limited setting on my PS4 and Switch.

 

[lensoftruth]

No. It the PS3 has settings for component

 

[iMax]

Hm, sounds like I should just stick with Automatic, which defaults to Limited on my TV. Some good info in this thread, especially regarding the pixels on most TV's that aren't really high-end being unable to actually display the extended range of gradations. Since my TV's settings make no mention of RGB or PC Mode I'm assuming that it doesn't actually support Full after all.

Time to switch back and recalibrate to the Limited setting on my PS4 and Switch.

It's really just a standards thing. PCs use the 256-gradation transmission standard, whilst broadcast uses the 220-gradation transmission standard—the end result is the same.

It's the same reason Microsoft has greatly simplified the two settings and now just labels them as 'PC' and 'TV' on Xbox One.

Switching back from Full to Limited might look bad (washed out colours, bad contrast, etc...) just recalibrate and it'll look identical if done correctly.

 

[REDSLATE]

Last I checked, the PS4 still had issues with the "automatic" setting, requiring manually choosing between "full" and "limited." The PS3 shouldn't have this issue.

 

[Vashetti]

idk but I hate it. I still get confused with LG if by black level: "low" they mean 0-255 (because 0 is smaller than 16) or that it has a lower range (so they'd mean 16-235)

I believe with LG, Low = Limited

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[ScOULaris]

No. It the PS3 has settings for component

What does this mean?

 

[Audioboxer]

I believe with LG, Low = Limited

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Yeah, low is often limited, normal is full.

Some good calibration images from here

1 for calibrating blacks and checking for crush.

2 for contrast.

http://www.techhive.com/article/2079503/easily-calibrate-your-new-hdtv.html

Contrast is a setting many need to double check just as much as black level issues. If any of the squares above appear identical to each other your contrast is too high and you're doing the opposite of black crush, "white crush". TV contrast settings can often go quite high. Mine is at 90/100. If I take it to 93~95 then issues appear with detail being lost within whites.