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Doctor Who Series 8 |OT| We've fucking time-travelled, yes?

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Ophelion

Member
Perfect? You mean the same Doctor who changed the future in his first appearance, in a fit of pique, leading to the disastrous reign of the Master? The same one who became so dangerously arrogant that the universe finally had to slap him down? 10 was not perfect, far from it.

The thing is, the show itself almost never calls him on his shortcomings. The Master stuff is fridge logic that no one in-universe ever seems to quite put together (I understand that originally, the Master was supposed to mock the Doctor about this, but it never happened, so doesn't count.) And if they do, they certainly don't seem to have the good sense to be outraged because of it. His failings tend to get either swept under a rug or used as fuel for his romantic persona. He's portrayed as somehow "better" because he's a Byronic twit.

What are we told about him though, what's reinforced in episode after episode? "He's like fire and ice and rage. He's like the night and the storm in the heart of the sun. He's ancient and forever. He burns at the centre of time and can see the turn of the universe. and... he's wonderful."

He's a "lonely angel" or a "lonely god" depending on who you ask.

Companions and incidental characters like Jackson Lake in The Next Doctor talk him up every chance they get. It's obnoxious and schmaltzy.

Waters of Mars was probably the only overt example of an episode where 10 is called on his shit in-universe.

Jack gets in a few digs in too at the end of time, but with a wink and a smile. Comes off as playful banter rather than a genuine expression of frustration.

Interestingly, I feel like since the start of the Moffat era we went from a false-modesty doctor surrounded by fawning sycophants to openly narcissistic Doctor with long suffering, eye-rolling companions. Neither is really "better" than the other, simply a matter of taste. Personally, I'd rather the Doctor had a high opinion of himself while his companions are less convinced. Seems more natural to me.

The exchange that sums up Moffat era companions for me.

Rory: He'll be fine. He's a Timelord.
Amy: That's just what they're called. It doesn't mean he actually knows what he's doing.
 
The thing is, the show itself almost never calls him on his shortcomings. The Master stuff is fridge logic that no one in-universe ever seems to quite put together (I understand that originally, the Master was supposed to mock the Doctor about this, but it never happened, so doesn't count.) And if they do, they certainly don't seem to have the good sense to be outraged because of it. His failings tend to get either swept under a rug or used as fuel for his romantic persona. He's portrayed as somehow "better" because he's a Byronic twit.

What are we told about him though, what's reinforced in episode after episode? "He's like fire and ice and rage. He's like the night and the storm in the heart of the sun. He's ancient and forever. He burns at the centre of time and can see the turn of the universe. and... he's wonderful."

He's a "lonely angel" or a "lonely god" depending on who you ask.

Companions and incidental characters like Jackson Lake in The Next Doctor talk him up every chance they get. It's obnoxious and schmaltzy.

Waters of Mars was probably the only overt example of an episode where 10 is called on his shit in-universe.

Jack gets in a few digs in too at the end of time, but with a wink and a smile. Comes off as playful banter rather than a genuine expression of frustration.

Interestingly, I feel like since the start of the Moffat era we went from a false-modesty doctor surrounded by fawning sycophants to openly narcissistic Doctor with long suffering, eye-rolling companions. Neither is really "better" than the other, simply a matter of taste. Personally, I'd rather the Doctor had a high opinion of himself while his companions are less convinced. Seems more natural to me.

The exchange that sums up Moffat era companions for me.

Rory: He'll be fine. He's a Timelord.
Amy: That's just what they're called. It doesn't mean he actually knows what he's doing.

I don't think this is really fair; Donna, Martha and Rose all call the Doctor out just as much as Amy does. Martha probably the least. It's not like Amy doesn't buy into the almost-a-god thing either; she's the one with the belief in him so strong that it almost kills her (The God Complex) and so on. She's the same as all the others.
 
I'm on episode 10 of season 7! I've slowed down a bit, mostly due to how awful the first 5 episodes are. Since Amy and Rory left, this feels like suuuch a different season. Like season 7 and 7.5.
 

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
I'm scared to google whatever happened to Leela, or if they just forgot about her

Part of me expects Moffat to make her the Doctor's mom

I got curious and decided to look up what happened to her after she decided to stay on Gallifrey and well...

Leela's subsequent life on Gallifrey is not explored by the television series, although the spin-off media have done so to an extent. In the Virgin New Adventures novel Lungbarrow, by Marc Platt, Leela and Andred are expecting a child, the first naturally conceived baby on Gallifrey for millennia. Louise Jameson reprised the role of Leela for the 1993 charity special Dimensions in Time, and has voiced the character in four series of audio plays for Big Finish Productions taking place on Gallifrey, alongside Lalla Ward as Romana and John Leeson as K-9. In the Gallifrey audio series, Leela acts as Romana's bodyguard, advisor and friend. Being a human in the presence of so much Time Lord Biology vastly extends Leela's lifespan, as well as keeping her relatively youthful. However, if she ever left them, she would quickly age to death. During the course of the Gallifrey series, Leela and Andred divorce after Andred fakes his death to infiltrate the Celestial Intervention Agency. (He killed a would-be assassin before regenerating himself and subsequently claimed that he was the assassin who had just killed Andred, never considering how his actions would affect Leela due to post-regenerative trauma.) Andred is subsequently killed and Leela is blinded during a Gallifreyan civil war, which also results in her version of K9 (the original) being destroyed. She is then taken out of time, to avoid her perishing with the rest of Gallifrey. She follows Romana through several alternative universes, regaining her eyesight in one when she is forced to ingest vampire blood to enhance her physical capabilities, her unique physiology allowing her to be physically enhanced by the blood without experiencing the negative mental side-effects that others have endured. How she returns to her universe has yet to be divulged.

Leela joins the cast of the Jago & Litefoot audio series at the end of the second series. She is sent by Romana to investigate breaks in time in Victorian London.

Leela does not appear in any of the Virgin Missing Adventures, but has appeared in several of the Past Doctor Adventures including four novels by Chris Boucher pairing her with the Fourth Doctor.

Leela seems to survive The Time War and features in a trilogy of Companion Chronicles audio stories in which she is now dying, aging a year per day as the powers of the Time Lords no longer keep her from death. Starting with The Catalyst, which is primarily a flashback to an adventure before Horror of Fang Rock, elderly Leela is being interrogated by a Z'Nai warrior (a race encountered by the Third Doctor). How Leela ends up in their custody is unknown, but they question her to learn what secrets she may know of a legendary "lost world" (presumed to be Gallifrey). It is almost certain that her sight has returned, as she can describe her interrogator's armour. Leela manages to trick him and he dies at her feet, while she is still strapped to machines that are just barely keeping her alive. She tells more stories of her past to a child that is also held prisoner in the room. In her final tale, The Time Vampire, she recalls how K9 briefly flew into the Time Vortex and she had a vision of an "ancient" woman. Once her tale is told and she feels ready to die, K9 suddenly appears before her, frees her from her shackles and guides her soul to its next stage.

. . .

I think I'm gonna just leave the Doctor Who expanded universe stuff alone from now on.
 

Vibranium

Banned
I think the implication of the line is obviously NOT just that they still have a youthful vigor. And can they bring back one without the other? Hill is sadly no longer with us.

Just think it'd be cute. And, sure - that SJA episode, given the canon timeline of SJA which is actually very well defined by the age & school year of the kids, is 2010.. so it's been four years. Sure he could've moved!

Honestly, I would prefer it if it was just dismissed as a silly rumour that Sarah Jane heard. I'd prefer Ian as an old man, just to see how the Doctor would reflect on how far he has come. And then we could see Capaldi pull off the trademark Hartnell lapels grab at the end of an episode like that.

I got curious and decided to look up what happened to her after she decided to stay on Gallifrey and well...
. . .

I think I'm gonna just leave the Doctor Who expanded universe stuff alone from now on.

Yeah I did the same, except for some Big Finish audios.

It is a kids show so I think those things can be brushed over a bit more than a proper drama or sci fi. It very rarely fails at being a fun or slightly scary adventure show.

It's not a kids show, it's a family one and covers both mature and light themes well. Over in Canada I can't say I've ever met one child Doctor Who fan. Everyone is a teen or adult.
 

Mariolee

Member
Hrm. I think I like this better. Also, is it just me, or is this new TARDIS interior great (last half of season 7 new)? It is very sci-fi and ancient feeling, without the comfy lounge room feel of the Amy/Rory era.

Agreed, love the latest TARDIS design. It's so alien and fits in so well with Capaldi's Doctor. The chalkboard is a fantastic addition as well.
 
I got curious and decided to look up what happened to her after she decided to stay on Gallifrey and well...


. . .

I think I'm gonna just leave the Doctor Who expanded universe stuff alone from now on.

Rofl, this is actually kinda better than I expected, though I guess this means maybe she's been reset or something by Gallifrey being saved...
 

Trike

Member
Is there any particular reason why Ian and Barbara would be ageless? Did something happen to them in the old Doctor Who episodes?

Not unless the Doctor secretly fucked up piloting the TARDIS and it blasted them with immortality. There wasn't nothing that should have done that, iirc, but who knows.
 
Is there any particular reason why Ian and Barbara would be ageless? Did something happen to them in the old Doctor Who episodes?

He could've simply (off screen) later dropped them off further up the timeline; they would've skipped a decade, maybe more, but to those whose lives they then walk back into they look like they've never aged. Answer could be deceptively simple.

It doesn't matter as we'll never find out, I imagine. Like Susan, I feel they will never be revisited. I think realistically the only time it might happen would be for an anniversary thing, and I think none of them will be with us by the time the next big one rolls around.
 

Robin64

Member
It would have been nice to see Ian in passing next episode, given it's set in Coal Hill, but then I remembered he's not the Headmaster, he's the Chairman of the Governors. Unlikely you'd see that type of person actually around the school, I guess. :\
 

D_prOdigy

Member
Hrm. I think I like this better. Also, is it just me, or is this new TARDIS interior great (last half of season 7 new)? It is very sci-fi and ancient feeling, without the comfy lounge room feel of the Amy/Rory era.

The TARDIS of the Amy/Rory wasn't really memorable, but the ULTRA comfy lounge room feel of the Doctor Who movie TARDIS was fucking ace, tbf
 

Philippo

Member
I had a huge smile when the Doctor says he looks like a magician, that means he really developed his costume based on his interview with Craig Fergusson.
It's such a nice thing.
 
Boom Town is really good, except when special effects are kicking off

impressive for an episode they totally pulled out of their arse last minute, shame they couldn't repeat the trick the following series
 
Boom Town shoutouts have me excited. If nothing else this series has taught me I much prefer the character driven, quiet pieces rather than big 'romps'.

I watched The Lodger in preparation for this week earlier today. Still holds up, which is good (I'm a total sucker for Gareth Roberts' writing). The thing that stuck out most though is how un-manic Matt Smith is. I totally remembered it as being 'the kooky Doctor tries to fit in' but he's a lot more placid and understated. He does that wistful eye thing a lot which I always loved.
 

Wilbur

Banned
Watched both episodes. Absolutely loved Listen, and enjoyed Time Heist well enough, especially the last ten minutes. Capaldi is already my favourite.

Now four episodes into my S5 rewatch. Never got the love for Eleventh Hour, a decent episode with a very strong start but a pretty poor plot otherwise. The two following it are average, but Time Of Angels is very good and reminds me of The Impossible Planet two parter in the way it builds dread.
 
It wouldn't be Friday without a RT poster:

57818.jpg
 
I really, really, really hope physical copies of these posters pop up soon.


EDIT: Quote from the designer:

Designer Stuart Manning drew influences from the 50s, 60s and 70s to create his poster for episode six, The Caretaker...

"Writer Gareth Roberts' episodes have a wonderful sense of unfussiness about them, which somehow feels very seventies to me," says Stuart. "So that was the starting point – blocky fonts and simple, chunky shapes. I also wanted to pick up on the theme of overlapping relationships after-hours, but in a tongue in cheek way, which inspired the silhouettes. So film noir meets Abigail's Party seemed to fit the bill nicely."
 
Watched both episodes. Absolutely loved Listen, and enjoyed Time Heist well enough, especially the last ten minutes. Capaldi is already my favourite.

Personally I found Listen to be a rather weak episode. What about it really grabbed you, because I'm about to watch it again and I'd love a different perspective to watch it from this time around.
 
Personally I found Listen to be a rather weak episode. What about it really grabbed you, because I'm about to watch it again and I'd love a different perspective to watch it from this time around.

I think on second watch it'll work better than the first. It seems to be engineered that way, honestly. Not to say the "twist" is a really strong sucker-punch or anything. Because there's not really a twist, there's an absence of twist (which makes sense considering the theme of the episode) and so when you rewatch, you're watching the magician's other hand, in a sense. I've found some extra appreciation can be gleaned from the episode that way.

It might actually be the most kid-oriented Doctor Who episode I've seen since, say, Eccleston, in that it seems to be written with them in mind the most: The Doctor literally speaks the theme of the episode, out loud, to a child, and then the episode takes care to reinforce that point going forward.
 

Boem

Member
Capaldi was great on Graham Norton. Loved him dying on the couch while Graham was building up to the old fan letters bit.
 
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