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Does anyone seriously believe the Todd Howard meme?
- Thread starter TheVoidDragon
- Start date
Zombie James
Banned
Fallout 4 was the last straw for me. Freedom and player choice, my ass.
Quadraphonic
Member
He said "200 endings". He didn't say "200 different permutations about the ending".
This is the direct quote:
You know EXACTLY what people expect when he says what he does. The fact you have to explain it means you also understand what people heard and what actually ended up in the game but choose to believe him.
This is the direct quote:
You know EXACTLY what people expect when he says what he does. The fact you have to explain it means you also understand what people heard and what actually ended up in the game but choose to believe him.
TheVoidDragon
Member
No, that is only part of what he said. Here's the part right after that where he explains exactly what he means and that there are over 200 different permutations of one 'real' ending:
Take it out of context with just the one part you included, and it looks like he means actual 200 different entirely unique endings (even though that's a crazy assumption for 2008). Read the full thing he said and it's clear it's a combination of different things that make up each variation of the ending - 200 different permutations.
Besides, even though he means permutations, they still count as different endings.
disappeared
Banned
I can't direct any bad feelings towards Todd, honestly. I don't know the guy personally so insulting him isn't really choice. However, I can say that with each subsequent game he's been in charge of I have been finding fewer and fewer reasons to support his design decisions anymore. Perhaps he's just lost touch with the genre he once revered so much? Perhaps tech and current industry trends have simply clouded his vision in regards to what a 'role-playing' game actually means? I don't know. Fallout 4 really left me scratching my head and has made me wonder just what the hell Elder Scrolls VI is even going to turn out like.
Mr Friend29
Member
Todd is like Molyneux except the media doesn't call him out for over exaggerating and lying about his games and instead treat him like the Jesus of RPGs even though they are some of the most basic RPGs on the market.
-The most boring/plain storylines/quests. Every quest is to go to a cave and bring thing back for money. Players never feel like they make an impact on the world
-"It just works" when really its full of bugs, glitches and crashes...Didn't they cancel the PS3 DLC releases because they couldn't fix the 1fps/save corruption bug?
-Some of the most bland and boring combat made just flat out playing the game a slog to do. No variety with combos or just anything other than LB or LT
-Npcs that have no personality and say the same canned thing over and over again.
Don't get me wrong, I played over 300 hours of Skyrim and 30 of Fallout 4 but there gets to be a point where you realize what the game really is.
-The most boring/plain storylines/quests. Every quest is to go to a cave and bring thing back for money. Players never feel like they make an impact on the world
-"It just works" when really its full of bugs, glitches and crashes...Didn't they cancel the PS3 DLC releases because they couldn't fix the 1fps/save corruption bug?
-Some of the most bland and boring combat made just flat out playing the game a slog to do. No variety with combos or just anything other than LB or LT
-Npcs that have no personality and say the same canned thing over and over again.
Don't get me wrong, I played over 300 hours of Skyrim and 30 of Fallout 4 but there gets to be a point where you realize what the game really is.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
It's more like the Monkey's Paw, really.
hans_castorp
Member
He has proved once and again he doen´t get what Fallout is about, and basically ruined the franchise.
Bethesta is better at marketing than at making complex RPGs.
Bethesta is better at marketing than at making complex RPGs.
Bethesda's output quality between Morrowind and Oblivion took a swan dive, and it's never really crested above mediocrity since then. I'm not saying Fallout 3/4, Oblvion, or Skyrim are outright bad games, but in comparison to Morrowind and what came before it, it feels very much like they have stopped taking any pride in the worlds they are weaving, each time whittling away at what makes their open world games great at the expense of catering to the masses.
It would be wrong to place all of that on Todd Howard, but the fact that he continues to walk out on stage for every release and talk about these dumbed down, stinted systems in a way to promote excitement tells me he condones it.
TheVoidDragon
Member
Bethesda's output quality between Morrowind and Oblivion took a swan dive, and it's never really crested above mediocrity since then. I'm not saying Fallout 3/4, Oblvion, or Skyrim are outright bad games, but in comparison to Morrowind and what came before it, it feels very much like they have stopped taking any pride in the worlds they are weaving, each time whittling away at what makes their open world games great at the expense of catering to the masses.
It would be wrong to place all of that on Todd Howard, but the fact that he continues to walk out on stage for every release and talk about these dumbed down, stinted systems in a way to promote excitement tells me he condones it.
None of this has anything at all to do with the actual quality of the game or it's content, though.
Mr Friend29
Member
Everything I said did. Go back and read it. Something full of bugs and glitches is quality?
Only thing Bethesda's RPGs have going for them is mod support so the community can finish their games for them.
hans_castorp
Member
Yes, it has. Those are valid criticism. Bethesta worlds keeps getting duller and duller, yet somehow he gets a free-pass.
TheVoidDragon
Member
This thread isn't about the quality of Bethesda's RPGs or any specific criticisms with them. This is about the things Todd Howard has said that people claim he has lied about.
The "It just works" quote was something he said in the context of the settlement construction system.
Humdinger
Member
lol
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
I'll never understand all of the hate.
Morrowind was absolutely amazing, and is still great to this day.
Oblivion was Fantastic, many peoples "this is next gen" moment, and radiant AI, although balanced out. /toned down, still made the game feel more alive than any before it.
Fallout 3 was an incredible reboot of the IP, and still has better world building and soul than its follow up.
Skyrim was a generational leap, within the same generation. Pushed the boundries of the tech, had a vast and immersive world that millions of people spent billions of hours exploring.
Fallout 4 is s great evolution of the formula, with much improved gunplay, wide open areas with little loading, crafting, base building, overhauled graphics engine, Power Armor and Companion systems. Etc.
Trust me when I say that TESVI will blow minds when it is shown.
And as he OP already stated, no lies were told. If you view the statements as a stretch, that's fine, but noting said was deceptive.
Morrowind was absolutely amazing, and is still great to this day.
Oblivion was Fantastic, many peoples "this is next gen" moment, and radiant AI, although balanced out. /toned down, still made the game feel more alive than any before it.
Fallout 3 was an incredible reboot of the IP, and still has better world building and soul than its follow up.
Skyrim was a generational leap, within the same generation. Pushed the boundries of the tech, had a vast and immersive world that millions of people spent billions of hours exploring.
Fallout 4 is s great evolution of the formula, with much improved gunplay, wide open areas with little loading, crafting, base building, overhauled graphics engine, Power Armor and Companion systems. Etc.
Trust me when I say that TESVI will blow minds when it is shown.
And as he OP already stated, no lies were told. If you view the statements as a stretch, that's fine, but noting said was deceptive.
I guess that second post was wrong.
You're right about Morrowind. No love for Daggerfall though? Quality took a very swift, steep dive down after TES3 for me though.
zombieshavebrains
I have not used cocaine
I'm not sure i'm understanding you, but if you can see all of the quests and quest IDs on the skyrim wiki and they're not adding more how is that infinite? You might not get all of the quests in one play through but there is most certainly a limit to the number of quests in the game.
TheVoidDragon
Member
It's because his actual quote (which doesn't even include the word "infinite") is not in relation to the content of those quests or what they actually contain. His quote is specifically about the amount of times you can do the generated quests. There is no limit to the number of quests you can have given to you by the NPCs which generate the procedural quests - some specific examples he gives are the thieves guild missions or bandit missions from innkeepers. You can keep going back and they'll just keep giving you more with no limit on how many you can do in your playthough. That is what his full quote here quite clearly explains and that is how it is in the game: http://www.wired.com/2011/11/skyrim-infinite-quests/
Yeah. Lying was never really the problem, it's how he keeps spinning things.
Todd Howard, Savior of the Universe
Because Bethesda developed games have been crap?
Every Elder Scrolls have been a downhill slide since Morrowind.
Fallout 3 was a disappointment to Fallout fans.
Fallout 4 was a disappointment to the human intelligence.
They pretend to be able to make RPG's and people think that they are.
Here is what Bethesda should do though:
Become a full-time FPS Publisher.
They should give up completely on making their own games and publish games instead, primarily FPS games. They clearly have something going on there with Dishonored, Wolfenstein and Doom. Even Fallout 4 seemed like a desperate plea to the gaming industry "Please! We just wanna make shooters not complicated games about story or choices cause we clearly can't! Look! We can make some decent shooting mechanics here in Fallout 4! Just tell us you want more of that so we can stop pretending to be a RPG developer!"
Small Mailman
Member
Fallout 3 had 200 different endings? What is it based on where your character is standing or something? That sounds like bull
Hitlersaurus Christ
Banned
Do people even know what a meme is anymore?
truestatic
Member
It's reasonable to be a bit dismissive cuz each of those 'lies' while technically true, come with pretty fucking massive fine print. Granted, everyone loves an impressive bullet point, but when your defense of those bullet points is 'if it's too good to be true' then even you have to admit he's bein a little cavalier and misleading.
Mr.Marston
Member
I don't get why this guy is so respected. The only game I liked that he was involved in was Oblivion. Fallout 4 and Skyrim were both disapointing as fuck to me.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
I never liked a game he made, as much as I tried, and the only things for me that save some of his games are the amazing mod community with things like Interesting NPCs for Skyrim.
Im glad his last game wasnt as praised because there was something MUCH better that year, and people are starting to see what I already saw years ago. He needs to hype less technical realities than then suck balls and look like lies and try to design better games. I know is hard as hell, but he was just getting too much praise for the majority of medicore games he has released. I prefer if all of his hypeness was translated to better writting and character interaction, for example.
Im glad his last game wasnt as praised because there was something MUCH better that year, and people are starting to see what I already saw years ago. He needs to hype less technical realities than then suck balls and look like lies and try to design better games. I know is hard as hell, but he was just getting too much praise for the majority of medicore games he has released. I prefer if all of his hypeness was translated to better writting and character interaction, for example.
Q
Queen of Hunting
Unconfirmed Member
The one amount 200 endings is basically like another dev saying.
We have 1000 weapons in our game.
Then we its released thee is 1000 weapons but there all variations off each other like a different color hilt etc.
I mean the dev hasn't lied but it would be a cunty way to word it and the person saying it would know how people would take it.
We have 1000 weapons in our game.
Then we its released thee is 1000 weapons but there all variations off each other like a different color hilt etc.
I mean the dev hasn't lied but it would be a cunty way to word it and the person saying it would know how people would take it.
TheSpoiler
Member
Nobody is worse than Peter. That dude lives in his own world with flat out lies. No spins. Lies. Like how that kid never got his fucking pay for winning the Godus thing, and it took a fucking journalist to remind Peter about it.
Todd just spins shit so hard it makes people confused. He knows what he's doing.
So go back to bed, Todd. It's past your bed time.
Orniletter
Banned
Some people are able to see beyond the "You can do everything/ Do whatever you want/Look at those wacky locales !" marketing-stuff of Bethesda games and see how truly poor their games are in almost every single area.
Not to mention that he is vague on purpose to sell his "impressive" games on sheer hype.
Edit: Lol BigTnaples. The nuance of F3's Karma system in full effect. Little loading my ass.
BouncyFrag
Member
When I saw him at Quakecon showing Skyrim's gameplay for the first time, I was hyped as fuck and felt Skyrim delivered for me upon its release. Sure, he over promises and I could go on and on and on about the direction of the Elder Scrolls games since Morrowind, but I still love the series and try not to get worked up too much about my complaints. Now if the next ES game has a voiced protagonist like Fallout 4 or someone other than Jeremy Soule composes the soundtrack, part of my gaming soul would most likely die, but I would eventually move on. For those that hate him and his games, I do find it interesting how often some of them play the games for countless hours just so they can write exhaustive manifestos about how shitty things are.
I'm not gonna lie, I have played Skyrim quite a lot. Like 300 hours a lot.
But the thing is that I don't play Bethesda games anymore for what Bethesda makes, its for mods. I think pretty much everyone else makes more interesting content than what Bethesda makes. They can do the engine, the basis of gameplay, but whenever it comes to actually filling their big worlds with interesting stuff they usually falter quite a lot. Their main story and side quests are usually poorly written and have no substance or true feeling of a proper RPG behind them. Something that should be possible cause I saw Obsidian take what I considered a mess that was Fallout 3 and turn it into what became a classic of western RPGs with New Vegas thanks to actually having talented writers and quest designers.
Now with Fallout 4, I've basically quit on their RPGs entirely. I didn't buy Fallout 4 nor do I feel any need to until I can buy it for 5-10 bucks or something cause they have reached a new low in not-giving-a-shit when it comes to making a RPG. Now it is just a open world shooter where you go places and shoot stuff. I'll maybe get the game later for mods, but that is what Bethesda games are these days, a platform for mods.
TheVoidDragon
Member
Can you please explain how him showing what he means by ending variations and that saying he means different versions of a single ending is a "cunty way" to word it? His quote is pretty clear.
He points out right there that he means there are over 200 possible ending variations, and each variation is a combination of different things, not that there are 200 unique individual endings.
Destructoid even posted an update a day after their original article to explain they were wrong and it's not 200 actual endings, but 200 permutations.
SinCityAssassin
Member
Should I believe Capitan Todd Howard?