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Does SONY pull a "ladies first" going into next gen?

EverydayBeast

thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Xbox 360 was released in Nov. 2015, PS3, one year later, this generation both consoles were released around the same time so next generation who here thinks SONY lets Microsoft release their console first and wait 1 or even 2 years to drop a bomb given the PS4 is still selling and the tech advancements are even worth it.
 

WaterAstro

Member
Sony's going to release their console when it's ready. There's no strategy in waiting or rushing a device out the door.

Especially when you rush hardware out the door with cheap parts, you end up with a load of red rings.
 

chinoXL

Member
Sony is in a good spot to take their time with the PS5. No need to rush it, PS4 looks like it will have it's best year title wise for me at least
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
Neither company 'lets' the other do something. Both companies will have stratagies that they will execute.
The most important thing with console success is giving what the consumer wants, which creates momentum.
At launch this gen was crazy. Gamers and the internet would amplify anything negative. So it really comes down to which company does the least fuck ups and produces great hardware and games.

I think both will launch in November 2020.I see no reason why sony or MS would change from a seven year cycle.

Next gen is going to be really kind of bizzare.
With the introduction of the mid gen refreshes and the scalability of modern game engines I think the pro and the X will be getting multiplats for a long time.
I dont know what hardware inadequacy would prevent the X from running games designed to run on something twice the power, especially now 4k is a thing.

If the consoles come out in 2020 they will basically high end PCs of today but with mid range CPU's.
I dont see why a 4k 30fps Xbox 2020 game could not work at 1080p 30fps on the X with maybe reduced effects.

I think VR/AR will be a big part of next gen, because while the visuals will be better, the difference will be the smallest we have seen.

We already have an idea of what next gen will look like.

We will finally get that true next gen lighting devs were hoping the X1 + Ps4 would be caperble of, shown at the 2min mark here:


This square and deep down demo also demonstrate a combination of particles, objects and lighting we have not really seen this gen looking like these demos.



Deep down


So next gen will just be the things we were promised this gen, plus the graphics of this gen on steroids.
 
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autoduelist

Member
Pretty sure the traditional console gen as we know it is finished.

Pretty sure you're wrong. I honestly think the vast majority of the console demographic want gens. You can wait a couple years for the price to go down [most console purchases are years 3-5], and still feel like you're getting the premium gaming experience for several years.

Iterative console release [beyond the single 'pro' version we saw this gen] introduces way too many complexities into consoles. The most important being: Will this game work on my device? Avoiding that question is key to consoles success, in my opinion. I know I buy my console for simplicity: I am willing to pay around $400 for 8 years [$50 a year] to know I can play any 'latest & greatest' game that comes out.

I realize many people on forums disagree. But early adopters looking for the latest and greatest tech are -not- the primary demographic of consoles. They exist, of course [I mean, I bought my PS4 day 1]... but they are a minority. Most people get it once the price drops a hundred or two, and the tech is already a few years old. The old tech doesn't bother them -because- they know it's still the latest, greatest gen.
 

EBE

Member
There's something to the use of gendered language in games discussion that I find really interesting. I mean, I don't know what I'm supposed to make of 'did X blow their load at this year's E3' every time I see it, and I see it every time, but it's something.

Anyway, I don't think either side will wait too long in between console releases going forward. But then iterative console refreshes have kinda thrown things off a bit by my reckoning so idk
 
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Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
Pretty sure you're wrong. I honestly think the vast majority of the console demographic want gens. You can wait a couple years for the price to go down [most console purchases are years 3-5], and still feel like you're getting the premium gaming experience for several years.

Iterative console release [beyond the single 'pro' version we saw this gen] introduces way too many complexities into consoles. The most important being: Will this game work on my device? Avoiding that question is key to consoles success, in my opinion. I know I buy my console for simplicity: I am willing to pay around $400 for 8 years [$50 a year] to know I can play any 'latest & greatest' game that comes out.

I realize many people on forums disagree. But early adopters looking for the latest and greatest tech are -not- the primary demographic of consoles. They exist, of course [I mean, I bought my PS4 day 1]... but they are a minority. Most people get it once the price drops a hundred or two, and the tech is already a few years old. The old tech doesn't bother them -because- they know it's still the latest, greatest gen.

It will be interesting if most tiltes are released on the mid gen refreshes throughout next gen.
Most gamers upgrade through necessity because the latest games are not being made for the older last gen systems.
Also how much better can a system twice as powerful as an Xbox one X (yes next gen is likely to be twice as powerful as the xbox one X, aint that crazy!) Really be in the eyes of the majority of market (which is semi casual).
 

Artistic

Member
Well what's to say Sony will carry off the momentum of the PS4/Pro success in sales moving forward into a next gen? What's stopping Xbox from potentially seeing an upswing in hardware sales if they improve on the lack of exclusive software, which seems to be the biggest scapegoat out of all used against the One's failures this gen.


Maybe there will be internal generation changes within each of the big 3 corporations, but not to the point where all 3 are ushering a new era of gaming. Think it's best they all bunker down on what makes each brand unique, hone in on it, and provide the best "brand" experience Sony, MS, or Nintendo can.
 
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odhiex

Member
Whatever happens, I hope that game companies could stick to their own visions. No need to be reactionary, if you believe in a product, you have to convince the potential consumers that it is worth to buy/upgrade.

Nintendo did very well with Nintendo Switch. I want the next gen to be substantial than just flashy graphics.
 

Leonidas

Member
What if Scorpio ends up being the base next gen Xbox(it will be like $300 in 3 years). Graphically a new $400/$500 system coming out in 2-3 years won't be that much of a jump from Scorpio.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
Whatever happens, I hope that game companies could stick to their own visions. No need to be reactionary, if you believe in a product, you have to convince the potential consumers that it is worth to buy/upgrade.

Nintendo did very well with Nintendo Switch. I want the next gen to be substantial than just flashy graphics.

In response to your comment on wanting more then just flashy graphics. I don't think this gen has offered everthing it can when it comes to gameplay revelations.
However thats not to say this gen hasnt been great. I was getting into a gaming rut at the end of last gen, but this gen got me excited to play again.
I suppose its that age old question that could current gen games be done on last gen.
To me this gen, games are much more lush,rich and detailed with more advanced animation resulting in better controlling characters which results in a better gameplay experience.
However game design does not seem radicly different from last gen.

I suspect next gen will enhance and refine what this gen started, more advanced lighting,particles, shaders, and polycount but wont it seem that big next gen because the better graphics get the smaller the improvements will be.
 

Valdega

Member
Sony's going to release their console when it's ready. There's no strategy in waiting or rushing a device out the door.

Especially when you rush hardware out the door with cheap parts, you end up with a load of red rings.

Release timing is actually incredibly important. Xbox was dominant last gen because it came out first, despite the hardware issues. Developers got used to building games with 360 as the lead SKU, which automatically turned the PS3 into an afterthought for multiplatform games. That's why so many PS3 ports had issues (well, that and the problematic hardware).

If Xbox One had come out a year or two before PS4, we'd see Xbox dominating this generation too.
 

llien

Member
Wait, does anyone perceive Scorpio as next gen? For me it's just "XB One version 1.5" and "sorta like PS4 Pro, but a bit faster".

Xbox360 cost half of PS3 at release, that was the issue, not that PS3 came 1 year later.
Sony still took over 360 later on, when PS3 price became reasonable.
 

Lort

Banned
Sony never took over xbox 360 mearly matched it 87 million to 86.

After the huge advantage that sony had before that, it was a massive fail. Bad design, bad pricing, bad marketing.
 

Swizzle

Gold Member
It will be interesting if most tiltes are released on the mid gen refreshes throughout next gen.
Most gamers upgrade through necessity because the latest games are not being made for the older last gen systems.
Also how much better can a system twice as powerful as an Xbox one X (yes next gen is likely to be twice as powerful as the xbox one X, aint that crazy!) Really be in the eyes of the majority of market (which is semi casual).

I am not sure how the current consoles would be able to deal with a gulf of CPU power without forcing the games to massively underutilise the new consoles and with games allowed to be exclusive to the new consoles there will be competitive pressure to use the new consoles well or at lest show off some of their features even early on. Hence why I like new console generations :)!
 

Swizzle

Gold Member
Sony never took over xbox 360 mearly matched it 87 million to 86.

After the huge advantage that sony had before that, it was a massive fail. Bad design, bad pricing, bad marketing.

This is being a bit too negative on both Sony and MS. By underselling the March PS3 took to regain market share you are also negatively addressing the Xbox 360 which played a lot of cards right early on and did launch a lot earlier and at a lower price point and with some great exclusives and an awesome OS for a console.
 
I think both consoles are further away than people are expecting.

For a meaningful upgrade, the next consoles will need to pack atleast twice the GPU performance and twice the ram compared to the Xbox one X and fit it into a small $500 box. This should give them enough beef for next Gen graphics and wireless 4k virtual reality headsets.

We are 3-4 years from this being possible. And with the insane rise in GPU and ram prices thanks to cryptocurrency, I think the parts will be too pricy for a while.
 
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WaterAstro

Member
Release timing is actually incredibly important. Xbox was dominant last gen because it came out first, despite the hardware issues. Developers got used to building games with 360 as the lead SKU, which automatically turned the PS3 into an afterthought for multiplatform games. That's why so many PS3 ports had issues (well, that and the problematic hardware).

If Xbox One had come out a year or two before PS4, we'd see Xbox dominating this generation too.

Except Xbox wasn't dominant. It had a lot of launch issues, red rings, making consumers rebuy their console. In the meanwhile, PS3, a year late, ended up evening up the number with stronger game lineups.

There was no dominant console last gen like how PS2 was undisputedly dominant.
 

MilkyJoe

Member
I think both consoles are further away than people are expecting.

For a meaningful upgrade, the next consoles will need to pack atleast twice the GPU performance and twice the ram compared to the Xbox one X and fit it into a small $500 box. This should give them enough beef for next Gen graphics and wireless 4k virtual reality headsets.

We are 3-4 years from this being possible. And with the insane rise in GPU and ram prices thanks to cryptocurrency, I think the parts will be too pricy for a while.

Agree with this. People obsessing over PS5 in 2019, I will be amazed if that happens. And why would people not want to wait another couple of years for a much better piece of kit.
 

Aklamarth

Member
The way i see it, the only question regarding next gen is if Sony can mantain backward game compatibility in PS5. Because if they can't do that, they're fucked.
 

Shin

Banned
That would mean Sony didn't learn their lesson from the PS3.
Different story, $600-700 console, 1 year later while harder to develop for.
A same price but beefier specs on x86 + name brand could carry it, that's nothing like PS3 case.
 

MilkyJoe

Member
The way i see it, the only question regarding next gen is if Sony can mantain backward game compatibility in PS5. Because if they can't do that, they're fucked.

I wouldn't worry about that, only a complete cockwomble would move away from x86 for next gen.
 

DarkestHour

Banned
Sony's going to release their console when it's ready. There's no strategy in waiting or rushing a device out the door.

Especially when you rush hardware out the door with cheap parts, you end up with a load of red rings.

I remember them launching the PS4 Pro by rushing a device out.
 
Sony's going to release their console when it's ready. There's no strategy in waiting or rushing a device out the door.

Especially when you rush hardware out the door with cheap parts, you end up with a load of red rings.

I may catch some flack for this, but the Pro seemed like a rush job. I have one and love it, but a lot more could have been done with the tech imo.

Regarding OP, I think Sony/Microsoft should release their tech when it is good and ready.
 
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Aklamarth

Member
MilkyJoe said:
I wouldn't worry about that, only a complete cockwomble would move away from x86 for next gen.

But x86-64 is only 1 part of the whole backward compatibility deal. There is still the GPU and most importantly the software side where the OS and APIs from PS5 will have to be backwards compatible. And when it comes to system software Sony is pretty mediocre about this and they haven't done anything like this before. Look on the otehr side at MS, those guys made a X360 emulator running on One and they virtualized the One OS for this scenario.
 
The way i see it, the only question regarding next gen is if Sony can mantain backward game compatibility in PS5. Because if they can't do that, they're fucked.
I don't think that matters to the vast majority. It's not hard to keep your old console if people care that much.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
I am not sure how the current consoles would be able to deal with a gulf of CPU power without forcing the games to massively underutilise the new consoles and with games allowed to be exclusive to the new consoles there will be competitive pressure to use the new consoles well or at lest show off some of their features even early on. Hence why I like new console generations :)!

This might well be the case, however the switch are getting current gen ports ands its CPU is only 3 cores for games.
Is game engine scalability going to suddenly go away next gen?

Also another thing I think will happen next gen is that everything will not be a new page especially in xbox's case, I think all xbox one accessories will work with xbox 2020 and because the AMD hardware will have similarities a lot of the dev environment will carry over.

I don't think that matters to the vast majority. It's not hard to keep your old console if people care that much.

It will because with consoles being so similar these days any disadvantages will be amplified at launch.plus the x1 has shown bc to be something people love and use. And current gen games will age even better with diminishing returns.

Sony or MS would be very foolish not to include BC.

Agree with this. People obsessing over PS5 in 2019, I will be amazed if that happens. And why would people not want to wait another couple of years for a much better piece of kit.

Indeed.
The graphics with the pro and the X im more then happy with and still constantly wowed, I dont see the need for new consoles, what things are people wanting from games that current gen consoles cant deliver now?
I think the PS5 in 2019 mantra stems from fans angry that a sony console is no longer the most powerful.

frankly I'm happy with graphics these days, sure when next gen comes out I will be amazed how the graphics start edging closer to Hollywood cgi, but todays visuals are beautiful and nothing about them distracts or discusts me.

I think todays graphics will be viewed like toy story 1 or resident evil 3 cgi.
sure toy story 3 and recent resident evil cgi movie look better, but when u go back to toy story 1 or resi 3 cgi, you dont think "dam this is ugly". They both perfectly fine to watch today, but just not as good.
 
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Breakage

Member
Didn't the PS3's CELL cost $400m to develop? And then there was the BR drive.
Both contributed to PS3's initial struggle.
 

Nikodemos

Member
GPU prices for corporate customers wouldn't be too affected by current card prices, since they're custom designed chips.
What would affect costs is memory, since console makers would have to compete directly with mobile phone makers for chips.
 

zzepto_x7

Neo Member
I think Sony will push forward Now service. Streaming is a future and by ps5 release they will start to offer older ps3/ps4 titles as a part of ps+
 
I doubt it. I think if anything, MS may choose to tactically go a year later than Sony next time around. They will not want to have worse hardware than Sony again after this gens mishaps. Plus they have the better Scorpio to help drag out an extra year. Most of the first year multiplats could probably run on that if they knock them down to ~1080p. Which is better than nothing for a short period.

But PS4 can easily milk out a load more cash for a good few years yet. I think it will be a while before next gen hits.
 
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Silvawuff

Member
Last gen was what, over a decade? I think the industry is definitely changing since physical media is becoming bygones and it makes no business sense to keep games platform exclusive. I'm sure console competitors look at what other companies are doing, but that isn't the primary factor behind when new hardware gets released.

Whatever is happening in the industry, it's good for consumers because we have more choices than ever about when, how, and where we purchase and play games.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
I doubt it. I think if anything, MS may choose to tactically go a year later than Sony next time around. They will not want to have worse hardware than Sony again after this gens mishaps. Plus they have the better Scorpio to help drag out an extra year. Most of the first year multiplats could probably run on that if they knock them down to ~1080p. Which is better than nothing for a short period.

But PS4 can easily milk out a load more cash for a good few years yet. I think it will be a while before next gen hits.

I actually think the console that goes a year later will be in a better position.
The first year of next gen will be really slow to adopt because most games will be cross platform even more so then the start of this gen and we may have big games like GTA6 realese in 2020 that is designed for around ps4 and x1

If sony or MS come out in 2020 with
8 core zen
12tflop gpu
24gb 800gbps Gddr6

and the year after the one that does not launch

Comes out with

8 core zen+
15tflop GPU
32gb 1tbps Gddr6 or hbm RAM

I would much rather wait for the more powerful, considering the one that launches in 2020 only has multiplatform games that wont be that different to the X and pro versions, it may get 4K 30FPS games @ 4k 60 and a few launch Exclusives.
 

Lort

Banned
Sony will go first because it wants to maintain its cycle, xbox will go 6-12 months later just like the mid gen refresh to ensure they are more powerful.

The 6 months sony has the most powerful machine wont matter much as xbox one x will play mostly the same games with not much graphical difference.

Sony will try leverage its first party and that will start them out of the gate strong, MS will leverage the fact its more powerful, can better support PC ports and will support almost all Win 10 apps.

Next gen will be very close, MS will prob win due to being more powerful and having more apps and indie ports but only just.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
Its going to be interesting what the intial console launch marketing slogans are going to be.
Last gen MS were touting "jump ahead" and "Beta tested in the future" and sony had the better ones with "greatness awaits" and "for the players"

It will be interesting because I think both the marketing campaigns will be very similar targeting the gamer and the things gamers care about, like console power.
We have already seen MS do this with the launch of the X and using the term "the worlds most powerful console".
I think sony will have some big AAA bets with VR, I Imagine some amazing VR tech demo with quantic dream , where sony will try and sell it like "this is when VR changes things, only on PS5™". Sony will do this to try and stand out,it will be a USP for them. I think MS will have VR but I think it will more of a "support" approach they may do a deal with the big VR players or just realese VR games on xbox and have 3rd party VR headset support.
 
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thelastword

Banned
OP I don't think 360 was released in 2015 and PS3 in 2016, unless you mean something different.....


Tbh, I don't think Sony is concerned about when MS launches. At the end of the day, games sell hardware and that's what they've been concentrating on since PS1. Even a problematic, high R&D PS3, which saw some drastic last minute changes to it's architecture, still pulled through, launching 1 year later at $600.00, with a weaker GPU, all the George Foreman Grill jokes and Amirox's prophecy of doom could not obsfucate one simple thing...and that is..."Games sell hardware"......More precisley....Many exclusives in varied genres...

It's the reason Nintendo keeps developing weak hardware the last few gens and people still buy their consoles and buy their games in droves, you can't get their wares elsewhere. Sony on the other hand is at the forefront of the best selling, highest rated, most diverse library and most technically competent developers on the planet, so that jives well with their more advanced kits over Nintendo, their plan seems to be pretty formidable. Get a solid piece of kit out there and let the devs make it sing...Take risks, greenlight many projects, some may fail, but some will do great.

Being the most powerful hardware has never guaranteed success in any generation, launching first does not either. It makes no sense to launch first and at year 3 or 4 you have dried up on software and ready to call it in. People will remember, that's why a longterm plan for software is so important. People try to call out Sony for launching GOW2 so late in the PS2 life-cycle or GT6 in the PS3's life-cycle etc.....but you have to honor and respect your vanilla hardware buyers, they form the majority of the console base and they've given you that success. In anticipation of a new gen or even on release of these mid-gen refreshes, you don't green light crappy PS4 vanilla ports because PRO exists, neither do you stifle compelling or exclusive software on PS4 because PS5 is on the horizon. I think that is the key to Sony's success and that's why it has had 3 consoles win the console race.

It's simple really, you get good and unique games for your hardware and people may start to look at your console as more viable as a first console or a secondary, because there's not too much overlap. You also need to get the read on the market and be in the gamers pulse, Kinect, Tv on a console and Voice as a controller was never a high priority for gamers this gen, you can't waste hardware, where there's no demand. It's just like UHD is doing nothing to sell XBOX consoles, because everyone is using netflix, hulu, amazon and a million more. Most have a nas based system or use DLNA, mainly plex, but beyond that UHD sales are just not taking the world by storm and good market research would have made that abundantly clear. In contrast, when PS2 landed, DVD's were on the rise and booming and millions got a DVD player, secondary to a console, but most importantly, the games used the space too, you even had games use several DVD's and some even dual layers. To me, all parts of a console must be tailored to it's main function and the inclusion there was warranted for games and served as a pretty convincing bonus for the movie watcher.....Again, lots of people watched DVD's then, not many people are plumping UHD's into drive slots these days.....So yes, you need to see how things are changing and what changes need to be made or prioritized for the hardware.



On another note....

Launching first can mean several things, what MS or Sony decide to focus on? Will MS go for Kinect 3.0? Will we see Mil...o...unhhh...I mean Molyneux on stage again, who knows what extras or bonuses they try to engineer into this one...and what extra costs it would bring. I know Sony will ensure that VR 2.0 is a go, 120fps minimum with a 240fps goal. I also believe that Sony will target 8k screens as well, as those will be available by the time of release. 4k 120fps for something to the tune of Quake champions, a much better looking one at PS5's release and 4k 60fps for most titles, even multi's. I think that should/will be the goal of next gen. Most will have 4k screens then, but a few will have an 8k Screen, so 8k 60 for indies or remasters will not be out of the ordinary.....
 
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Its 2018. Chivalry is dead (and sexist now.)

Sonys gonna stretch this as long as they can and i really dont think they care about xbox one way or another
 
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Artistic

Member
Was Sony's situation ever dire enough were they would have went bankrupt or was those reports then exaggerated?
 
If Sony launches in 2019 for $450. There is no way it will be noticeably more powerful than Xbox One X, and MS could slash the price of the One X to $300 and undercut and outsell them until they are ready to launch a truly beefy system an year or two later.

Face it, nothing that will be ready for release in 2019 will be noticeably more powerful than Xbox One X. It may have some slightly better specs on paper but both consoles will be running games at close to 4k resolutions so I doubt anyone would notice a difference.

It would then get decimated by the 2021 console that is actually substantially more powerful (zen+ at 5nm with 16TF of GPU performance) capable of Pixar quality graphics or 4k per eye VR at 90hz that is as realistic and as close to a holodeck as anyone had ever dreamed of.
 
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