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DOTA 2 |OT6| Plz vote for Keeper of the Light Arcana
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
- Start date
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I don't honestly think that fast tower kills were the issue. It wasn't that they were necessarily taking towers so quickly so much as they were getting a lot of kills very early on. The kills led to the towers, but the kills also led to the one sided nature of the conflict
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I mean, who are you thinking? We saw a fair number of AA's and Natures Prophets, especially in the later games. KotL maybe? But KotL has the same problem as AA, he's literally just food to heroes like Ember Spirit and Skywrath
+ Best ever finish and payout for NADota. Plus a Canuck took part!
+ Grand Prize went to a comeback team
+ Drow Visage OTP
+ ESPN exposure
+ Wide-open metagame and stable of viable heroes (10-12 left unpicked according to compendium)
+ Arena setup and atmosphere, Sheever gittin' panel time
+ Techies, Phoenix, Legion Commander in the All-Star Match
+ Another clutch of great games to return to in time
- Liquid
- EU/CISDota disappeared in the final stretch
- Grand Finals were a near-landslide
--- Sickness. Have to watch a fair number of VODs because I've been sleeping so much.
Not sorted in any particular order of importance. I feel a little bit awful.
+ Grand Prize went to a comeback team
+ Drow Visage OTP
+ ESPN exposure
+ Wide-open metagame and stable of viable heroes (10-12 left unpicked according to compendium)
+ Arena setup and atmosphere, Sheever gittin' panel time
+ Techies, Phoenix, Legion Commander in the All-Star Match
+ Another clutch of great games to return to in time
- Liquid
- EU/CISDota disappeared in the final stretch
- Grand Finals were a near-landslide
--- Sickness. Have to watch a fair number of VODs because I've been sleeping so much.
Not sorted in any particular order of importance. I feel a little bit awful.
Shorty11857
Member
I thought it was a great TI overall lots of great games the finals were just underwhelming. I have nothing against the style of Dota played I just would have loved one match that was actually closer. In games 3 and 4 especially Newbee just completely destroyed VG
Vici came into the tourney as a outsider in most eyes, used an extreme deathball that capitalized on fy and fenrir being an amazing roaming duo to get a good early game and start the deathball. This caught many teams off guard. Newbee countered by picking a very aggressive lineup with teamfight control that didn't need huge amounts of gold and crushed them. It's a rock paper scissors effect. Different teams counter each other. It happens that the seeding worked out to set up this road.
oh, and C9 tried a level 1 rosh on lan, ruining the fact that they also had a counter to Vici.
Icefrog will change things because that is just what he does. Maybe the game will become even more balanced. But I still say this meta is varied and fun, it just happens the two teams who play such early styles got to the final.
oh, and C9 tried a level 1 rosh on lan, ruining the fact that they also had a counter to Vici.
Icefrog will change things because that is just what he does. Maybe the game will become even more balanced. But I still say this meta is varied and fun, it just happens the two teams who play such early styles got to the final.
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
+ Best ever finish and payout for NADota. Plus a Canuck took part!
+ Grand Prize went to a comeback team
+ Drow Visage OTP
+ ESPN exposure
+ Wide-open metagame and stable of viable heroes (10-12 left unpicked according to compendium)
+ Arena setup and atmosphere, Sheever gittin' panel time
+ Techies, Phoenix, Legion Commander in the All-Star Match
+ Another clutch of great games to return to in time
- Liquid
- EU/CISDota disappeared in the final stretch
- Grand Finals were a near-landslide
--- Sickness. Have to watch a fair number of VODs because I've been sleeping so much.
Not sorted in any particular order of importance. I feel a little bit awful.
Why those two still aren't in the captain's mode?
Phoenix is still hella strong and potentially volatile. LC, I don't know. Might be more changes in the works.
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
Haly: sux
Phoenix is broken, LC I dunno.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Thanks! I'll start there.
Do you think it's worthwhile to start out by doing full bot matches, or will I most likely not learn a ton that can be applied to real matches against other players?
LC will probably be in after TI4. Phoenix and Earth I'm not sure about.
I'm going to guess LC wasn't put in because, while she's not anything special as far as I can tell, she'd still be a wildcard at TI4 and Icefrog didn't want to risk destabilizing the meta at such a crucial time. For example, had LC been in the game, VG might've had a harder time overall because she's really great at punishing Desuball.
I'm going to guess LC wasn't put in because, while she's not anything special as far as I can tell, she'd still be a wildcard at TI4 and Icefrog didn't want to risk destabilizing the meta at such a crucial time. For example, had LC been in the game, VG might've had a harder time overall because she's really great at punishing Desuball.
This is true, though I can see push lineups adapting against her with Necronomicons. And then LCs adapting with BKBs, etc.
The bots are better than most new players I'd say. It's a really good way to get over the anxiety some people have when they are learning the game, since you can just restart if you screw something up. Anything that gets you learning all the heroes and items will be helpful honestly, that's the most important thing when you're new.
I definitely believe we'll see her there (prolly with some minute buffs).
Dreams-Visions
Member
EG - Replace Mason. Preferably with a rejuvenated FEAR. If not FEAR, poach a strong carry from some other Western team. Maybe TC? Maybe someone from one of the weak euro teams like Mousesports or Rox.KIS? If not them, they should strongly consider Black^.
Na'Vi - Replace Xboct. Preferably with Black^, but if they can't poach him from CiS for some reason, maybe they poach someone like Illidan from VPro or even Silent/Resolut1on from Empire. I think Black^ is most at home here, figuratively and literally. He could join a fellow German player and be back close to home. With people who can speak and understand the language. Also, Na'Vi needs a vocal counterbalance to Puppey's crazy-ass ideas. Na'Vi loses more games than they should at the draft. I also wouldn't mind seeing Funn1k Clinkz return a bit more often.
Alliance - Find their motivation again. I think they suffered the same kind of post-TI hangover that iG had after TI2. Not dedicated enough. Not hungry enough. Everyone had to make post-patch adjustments and they adjusted poorly. They don't need a roster change. They're among the best in the world at every single position. They just need to find that "I'm broke" hunger again.
C9 - Stay together and get a coach. They had a strong showing and it's just their first year together. Envy will grow from this and hopefully get hungrier and more focused. I need to see more focus and seriousness out of SingSing; I sometimes feel like he mentally checks out or isn't always there when it's time to make good decisions. Those things will come with time. They will come in less time with a coach of the caliber of someone like FEAR. Someone to give them a little more structure and focus. The Cloud 9 organization will no doubt get them what they need. It's a very, very strong organization.
Liquid & NARVI - They need to fuse. The best players from these two teams need to reform as the new Na'Vi US or Team LIquid. That way, they can shed that horrible mistake of a name in NAR and be stronger overall. Neither is strong enough as-is. Maybe add Mason as their carry.
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
The real question is: Will Techies get into CM before Broodmother? And will either get in before TI5?
This is interesting. Who do you think are the 5 best players? At most I'd replace Korok with Qojqva and maybe either 1437 or Fogged with Bulba.
Probably not
This is interesting. Who do you think are the 5 best players? At most I'd replace Korok with Qojqva and maybe either 1437 or Fogged with Bulba.
Nice analysis.
Bulldog bought his sister a Subway franchise, so I'm sure he will be broke (and hungry) by TI5. Believe.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
Xboct isn't the issue with Na'Vi or to put it in another way, getting rid of him won't make them successful.
Puppey's drafting has been whack recently.
Kuroky needs to be more greedy. Those 2 can be incredible passive as well.
Dendi's doesn't dominate mid like he did.
Edit: Dreams I disagree with almost everything you've said.
Puppey's drafting has been whack recently.
Kuroky needs to be more greedy. Those 2 can be incredible passive as well.
Dendi's doesn't dominate mid like he did.
Edit: Dreams I disagree with almost everything you've said.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I like them. I just don't see a path to greater success with their current rosters, and with them both being American teams, the easiest solution is to merge. Unless they want to look at drafting up-and-comers.
Oh and I forgot one:
Fnatic - Lose Era. Make it official and give Xcalibur his spot. His pool of heroes may be a bit more limited, but he clearly has the kind of upside you want out of a young player. He's someone that can become a face for the team for many years to come. Let Era get all the peace and quiet he needs...on someone else's dime.
Alternatively, both TL and Nar'vi have stable sponsors, so a merger may not prove necessary to lift both of their results year-over-year. They just may need to tap better talent piece by piece.
shira
Member
EEsama and rtz it is their destiny
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
Single changes won't make the difference.
Alliance need to get their mojo back? How can you not be hungry for $5million?
Alliance need to get their mojo back? How can you not be hungry for $5million?
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
Dreams-Visions
Member
Xboct is often the problem. He often plays with tunnel vision or is oblivious to missing heroes on the map resulting in far too many deaths, crippling his ability to impact the game later. Cardinal sins in my book for any professional carry player, and a recurring theme with him much too often. Black^ is a much more solid, much more stable carry player. Buy Black^ a little time and he'll crush games.
KKY and Dendi need heroes given to them that allow them to be greedy or dominate. Ergo, the point that they need a vocal counterbalance to Puppey. Someone needs to say, "No Puppey, that's a BAD idea. Give Dendi someone he can wreck faces with." Seems to me that nobody is saying it, leading to drafts with Dendi on Death Prophet, Funn1k on Elder Titan, or Xboct on Razor. Those selections feel almost the opposite of the style of play they prefer.
I agree. It just depends on how long they want the rebuilding to go on. The shortest path to getting better fast is to put known quantities of good players together (the DK/Vici/Newbee approach). Pulling from the stable of pubs is more of a long-range approach.
? Brood's not back in CM yet.
EE can carry pubbies or B-tier teams. Fear is the only way!
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
Surely the issue is the fact that Dendi's hero pool is actually smaller than we think?
Black's stability/Xboct tunnel vision isn't what's losing Na'Vi matches.
Edit: I love how Fear has been elevated to top tier status when he's only ever been quite ordinary for the past few years.
Oh, misremembered.
What sixghost said. Also, I play more bots than I do pubs because I never feel confident I have enough time set aside reliably. But you can use the time efficiently, like atm I'm practicing my Ember spirit mechanics.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
Does anyone think the massive prize pool, despite being good for the game and players in almost every single way, was actually bad for this event solely from the perspective of a spectator game? Everybody seemed to play so safe most of the time, and it felt like maybe it was because there was just too much on the line.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
I think there are other issues with having a prize pool that big as well.
I think people would play it safe regardless to be frank. The International always had obscene amount of money.
Shorty11857
Member
I think NAR'VI are fine they originally formed to think about TI5 so I'd say the fact that they made it to TI4 at all and had a respectable group stage is enough for them to work off of
I honestly think Fear just suited EG more, he wasn't really the 1 role and had a pretty good hero pool so the team could pretty much draft whatever and not be limited by him.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I didn't watch enough of Navi's games to comment on them.
EG I don't know myself, but they still got 3rd, so the team isn't exactly bad and has time to improve even more as they are still young. RTZ actually said on his interview from I think the second or third day of the groups that Mason had been playing the best of all of them up to that point, so I don't know if they will agree with the idea he is the weak link.
EG I don't know myself, but they still got 3rd, so the team isn't exactly bad and has time to improve even more as they are still young. RTZ actually said on his interview from I think the second or third day of the groups that Mason had been playing the best of all of them up to that point, so I don't know if they will agree with the idea he is the weak link.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
Fear played Weaver.
Mason and him are peas in a pod.
Mason and him are peas in a pod.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
RTZ item selection and losing every lane = Mason's fault.
Come on guys.
Come on guys.
RTZ even agrees with you. He said in that same interview that he was playing the worst.