Hero strengths are generally what icefrog seeks to preserve, not curb. Constantly nerfing strengths is what makes WoW and LoL balancing so shitty and is an ez path to homogenization.
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DOTA 2 |OT6| Plz vote for Keeper of the Light Arcana
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
- Start date
Hero strengths are generally what icefrog seeks to preserve, not curb. Constantly nerfing strengths is what makes WoW and LoL balancing so shitty and is an ez path to homogenization.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
He has the same exact ult, so basically.
In other Leeg news, one of their popular (retired) players said something bad about Riot's balancing team on Twitter which lead to Morello and Tryndamere tweeting him questions a bunch on what they can fix, which lead to Tryndamere retweeting this baffling tweet:
I honestly have no clue whats going on.
Hell no, if that was Axe armor girl would've been dead.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
u gusys ready for brew ember shaman doom rubick statues next year
Thanks for picking my worst game out of the last week and judging my entire play history on it :/
Well thanks for looking anyways. I also disagree with some of your critique in terms of play style, but to each his own.
balladofwindfishes
Member
If there's one positive thing from the final game, it's that we get cool heroes on next year's loading screen. Ember and Rubick are fantastically designed heroes (visually).
Actually, looking at that line up, they had the makes for a really entertaining game. Ember is so much fun to watch zip around and Rubick is always a good time. But the highlight stolen spell was Plague Wards, so yea... so much for spell steal hype.
Amazing.
I've been in the same boat for the last couple of months I've hovered around 20 wins more than losses since I started last September but these last few months I've gotten some terrible team mates, mainly communication wise "none at all" they go play their own solo game fail in their lane and generally do nothing. Other times I play support, and another 3 people go support, when I decide to play carry I get support picks that decide so try carry and don't up the courier till I do it as a Ember Spirit 32 mins in or ward at all.
I'm hoping now the compendium random hero has stopped people will go back to playing the heroes they know and stop trying to get points while getting carried.
Well, you know, sometimes it isn't so much about a hero being really OP, but rather if the teams feel that he is OP.
In that list, the only ones that I feel should be nerfed are Razor and Brew. I wouldn't say they're so much OP, but teams are picking them too much (and are ignoring other viable heroes), so maybe nerfing them a little would improve the overall balance of the game (and if you look at my previous post, I suggested "numeric" adjustments for Razor and said that Brew is indeed tricky to balance).
On the other hand, I feel Shadow Shaman and maybe Doom should be nerfed a little too. Lycan is like 95% ban/pick rate so he should be nerfed for sure imho.
What's that champion's name?
Riot is after the mature Dota 2 audience now
#ChampionNameCosplaySearchIncoming
That sucks! At least you've got more wins recently than losses though. It just seems like purgatory in terms of players. You'll get some good ones and a lot of bad ones and they each keep each other hovering around the same MMR.
The champion's name is Asa Akira
I expect those heroes might get nerfs anyway to shake things up. IceFrog often likes to shake things up and try to give other heroes their turn in the spotlight. I don't think anyone sticks out like a sore thumb as OP, IceFrog just doesn't want the game to stay the same forever.
dorkimoe
Gold Member
you better hope nobody googles that name at work
Rengar.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I'm so disappointed Wraith King didn't get an immortal this year 
So many cool effects they could change, and he just is a cool hero to have cosmetics for in general.
So many cool effects they could change, and he just is a cool hero to have cosmetics for in general.
Seems legit.
EDIT:
Seems legit too.
You guys are so useful, I love you. <3
6.82 preview (to come in two month)
Drow Ranger frost arrow no longer an orb.
Huskar Berserker's blood spell resistance increased from 4/5/6/7 to 4/6/8/10, max stack reduced to 9 (still get a stack for 7% loss). Get max bonuses at 37% hp now, but slightly less of them.
Life break always cost 50% of your hp now. Cast range increased from 600 to 600/700/800.
Aghanim Life Break now also increase cast range by 100.
CM intelligence growth increased from 2.9 to 3.6 (she's still papery shit but can cast her ulti at 11 and 16 without needing arcane)
Lina Fiery soul no longer give Attack speed, but agility. 7/14/21/28 agility per stack (giving armor allow her to tank tower hits and dive better since she's paper).
Techies base intelligence increased by 10
Sniper reworked:
Take aim is now:
Sniping rounds or Explosive rounds (toggleable). 1 second to switch between forms.
Sniping rounds is the old take aim, increase range by 100/200/300/400
Scattershot give sniper a 50% splash area of 100/140/170/200 (slightly less than dragon form at level 4) and a 75% splash area of 80/120/150/170
Headshot now changes between the forms.
With sniping rounds it give you the normal Headshot
With Scattershot you get the bonus damage on every attack but no ministun
Assassinate and Shrapnel Unchanged
Zeus lightning bolt give him a 0.25 window of invulnerability (imagine Zeus glowing and becoming shortly invulnerable while casting his lightning, cool as shit).
Riki base agility increased by 4.
Spirit bear regeneration increased from 2/3/4/5 to 2/4/6/8
Ogre base movement speed increased by 5
Tuskar Ice shard mana cost improved from 120 to 90
Omni purification rescaled from 90/180/270/360 to 120/200/280/360 (now usable in duo lanes)
Doom, Midnight Pulse and March of the Machines are no longer Universal Damage, but magic
Doom duration decreased from 15 to 13 (Aghanim unchanged).
Axe spin now deal 90/120/150/180 + axe strenght damage.
Juggernaut spin now don't silence you anymore. Casting Omnislash will cancel the spin.
Naga Siren Song of the Siren mana cost increased from 100 to 100/200/300
PA base damage increased by 4
Spectre base strenght increased by 2 (19->21)
Visage Spell resist now back to normal value (25% from 10%). Familiar base attack time increased from 0.4 to 0.5
Focus Fire changed. Instead of reducing damage it give you a miss chance of 50%/40%/30%. Aghs upgrade removed. Cooldown improved to 20/15/10.
Razor base movement speed decreased from 295 to 290. Unstable Current movement speed bonus increased from 4/8/12/16 to 5/10/15/20. Static current mana cost now 50 at all levels. This hero's unsufferable in lane. With this, he get faster than before if he max unstable current but level 1-5 are a bit more manageable for the opponent.
Barathrum Empowering Haste now increase attack speed by the same amount as well.
Pudge Dismember duration increased from 3 to 3/4/5. Damage now constant at 75.
Troll Warlord Berserker Rage bonus hp increased from 100 to 100/125/150/175
Fervor max stacks decreased to 3. Bonus attack speed rescaled to 15/25/35/45 (same max ias increase but 3 attack instead of 4)
Phantom Lance spirit lance damage increased to 150/200/250/300
Rastha Shackles Damage per second rescaled from 40 to 10/30/50/70
AntiMage Spell Shield now also block a spell every 30/25/20/15 seconds. Resistance rescaled from 26/34/42/50 to 20/30/40/50
Warlock's Golem have now a new ability, flame wave. Is an active with 20 seconds CD and deal 100/200/300 damage in a line with 300 width up to 1000 distance, at 350 movement speed (think flame wave from diablo, but narrower and slower/dodgeable).
Lycan wolves Hp rescaled from 200/240/280/320 to 250 (easier jungling and laning but almost impossible to solo rosh now)
Wifestealer infest cd from 100 to 80/60/40. Damage removed from the ulti.
Nighstalker Aghanim upgrade now make night permanent.
Undying str from 2.1 to 2.4
Slardar's Sprint is now toggleable
Roshan chance to bash increased.
Drow Ranger frost arrow no longer an orb.
Huskar Berserker's blood spell resistance increased from 4/5/6/7 to 4/6/8/10, max stack reduced to 9 (still get a stack for 7% loss). Get max bonuses at 37% hp now, but slightly less of them.
Life break always cost 50% of your hp now. Cast range increased from 600 to 600/700/800.
Aghanim Life Break now also increase cast range by 100.
CM intelligence growth increased from 2.9 to 3.6 (she's still papery shit but can cast her ulti at 11 and 16 without needing arcane)
Lina Fiery soul no longer give Attack speed, but agility. 7/14/21/28 agility per stack (giving armor allow her to tank tower hits and dive better since she's paper).
Techies base intelligence increased by 10
Sniper reworked:
Take aim is now:
Sniping rounds or Explosive rounds (toggleable). 1 second to switch between forms.
Sniping rounds is the old take aim, increase range by 100/200/300/400
Scattershot give sniper a 50% splash area of 100/140/170/200 (slightly less than dragon form at level 4) and a 75% splash area of 80/120/150/170
Headshot now changes between the forms.
With sniping rounds it give you the normal Headshot
With Scattershot you get the bonus damage on every attack but no ministun
Assassinate and Shrapnel Unchanged
Zeus lightning bolt give him a 0.25 window of invulnerability (imagine Zeus glowing and becoming shortly invulnerable while casting his lightning, cool as shit).
Riki base agility increased by 4.
Spirit bear regeneration increased from 2/3/4/5 to 2/4/6/8
Ogre base movement speed increased by 5
Tuskar Ice shard mana cost improved from 120 to 90
Omni purification rescaled from 90/180/270/360 to 120/200/280/360 (now usable in duo lanes)
Doom, Midnight Pulse and March of the Machines are no longer Universal Damage, but magic
Doom duration decreased from 15 to 13 (Aghanim unchanged).
Axe spin now deal 90/120/150/180 + axe strenght damage.
Juggernaut spin now don't silence you anymore. Casting Omnislash will cancel the spin.
Naga Siren Song of the Siren mana cost increased from 100 to 100/200/300
PA base damage increased by 4
Spectre base strenght increased by 2 (19->21)
Visage Spell resist now back to normal value (25% from 10%). Familiar base attack time increased from 0.4 to 0.5
Focus Fire changed. Instead of reducing damage it give you a miss chance of 50%/40%/30%. Aghs upgrade removed. Cooldown improved to 20/15/10.
Razor base movement speed decreased from 295 to 290. Unstable Current movement speed bonus increased from 4/8/12/16 to 5/10/15/20. Static current mana cost now 50 at all levels. This hero's unsufferable in lane. With this, he get faster than before if he max unstable current but level 1-5 are a bit more manageable for the opponent.
Barathrum Empowering Haste now increase attack speed by the same amount as well.
Pudge Dismember duration increased from 3 to 3/4/5. Damage now constant at 75.
Troll Warlord Berserker Rage bonus hp increased from 100 to 100/125/150/175
Fervor max stacks decreased to 3. Bonus attack speed rescaled to 15/25/35/45 (same max ias increase but 3 attack instead of 4)
Phantom Lance spirit lance damage increased to 150/200/250/300
Rastha Shackles Damage per second rescaled from 40 to 10/30/50/70
AntiMage Spell Shield now also block a spell every 30/25/20/15 seconds. Resistance rescaled from 26/34/42/50 to 20/30/40/50
Warlock's Golem have now a new ability, flame wave. Is an active with 20 seconds CD and deal 100/200/300 damage in a line with 300 width up to 1000 distance, at 350 movement speed (think flame wave from diablo, but narrower and slower/dodgeable).
Lycan wolves Hp rescaled from 200/240/280/320 to 250 (easier jungling and laning but almost impossible to solo rosh now)
Wifestealer infest cd from 100 to 80/60/40. Damage removed from the ulti.
Nighstalker Aghanim upgrade now make night permanent.
Undying str from 2.1 to 2.4
Slardar's Sprint is now toggleable
Roshan chance to bash increased.
Interfectum
Member
I'm so disappointed Wraith King didn't get an immortal this year
So many cool effects they could change, and he just is a cool hero to have cosmetics for in general.
I want a skin that turns him back into a skeleton. I hate the new design.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
I didn't even buy any of the Immortal chests. I don't really care about most of heroes.
I bought the Artisan of Havoc set and opened a couple of chests to get the Kunkka set.
I bought the Artisan of Havoc set and opened a couple of chests to get the Kunkka set.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I don't think there was a single immortal for a hero added after TI2.
Which is disappointing in of itself.
Edit: Skywrath Mage got one. Oh boy, one hero released in early 2013, everyone else is from mid 2012 if not 2011. I was incredibly surprised there wasn't a Terrorblade or Legion immortal. I'm even surprised there's no Terroblade items what so ever (besides the Arcana)
I've always thought something like this would be cool. It's not even whether it makes him strong for me, I just think toggling rounds to adjust how a fight is going sounds fun.
Is anyone else considering joining the Reddit league for this season and do we have something like this already on gaf? http://www.reddit.com/r/redditdota2league/comments/2aj18e/rd2l_season_5_player_signups/
OldAsUrSock
Banned
I avoid All Pick unless I am in a five stack and even then my people like Captains mode more. If my people go all pick we get horrible games because everyone wants to play a hero they never used before. CM is the ticket to good games. Yes, there are much more tryhards, but if the captain isn't in derp mode like this
This was a 3.4k mmr captain. You can notice the plan of the bans and picks right off the bat.
Then you shouldn't get too much pubstomps like in AP.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Sure, I agree. What if Sleight of Fist dropped you off at the last unit you attacked instead of back where you started? Keep the general mobility, just cut down on his ability to initiate with literal impunity.
I avoid All Pick unless I am in a five stack and even then my people like Captains mode more. If my people go all pick we get horrible games because everyone wants to play a hero they never used before. CM is the ticket to good games. Yes, there are much more tryhards, but if the captain isn't in derp mode like this
This was a 3.4k mmr captain. You can notice the plan of the bans and picks right off the bat.
Then you shouldn't get too much pubstomps like in AP.
"Fuck green things. Pick blue things "
Sounds like a flawless draft to me.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I avoid All Pick unless I am in a five stack and even then my people like Captains mode more. If my people go all pick we get horrible games because everyone wants to play a hero they never used before. CM is the ticket to good games. Yes, there are much more tryhards, but if the captain isn't in derp mode like this
This was a 3.4k mmr captain. You can notice the plan of the bans and picks right off the bat.
Then you shouldn't get too much pubstomps like in AP.
That draft doesn't look terrible to me? I mean you've got the makings of a sick trilane plus if NS does his job the map should be terror for the enemy team in the early midgame, Drow is always an iffy pick but at least there are other ranged heroes to benefit from the aura allowing Venge to transition to semi-carry as NS falls off...I dunno
The bans are ridiculous though lol
I avoid All Pick unless I am in a five stack and even then my people like Captains mode more. If my people go all pick we get horrible games because everyone wants to play a hero they never used before. CM is the ticket to good games. Yes, there are much more tryhards, but if the captain isn't in derp mode like this
This was a 3.4k mmr captain. You can notice the plan of the bans and picks right off the bat.
Then you shouldn't get too much pubstomps like in AP.
not a terrible draft tbh
There's more to that than winrates. Pick rates are by far the most influential, and all those heroes were picked a lot, if not 80% of the time during TI4. Razor himself was at 90% i think, and you say he is balanced? He has a low WR cause people only let him through if they are drafting a line that can somewhat deal with him, same with tide and Brew.
I've always really liked the stylized look of league (the latest models and designs/redesigns specifically such as the remade trundle or twitch) but it never made sense to me why when they make CGI videos they go for a more realistic that looks just off (to me) instead of making a more stylized look (like a pixar/DreamWorks a la rise of the guardians) which could look so much better.
It's like they go for realistic lighting and textures but still have the stylized proportions. They have just always looked off and makes it seem inconsistant.
Dota's CGI style still fits in line with the art atyle of the game. Its made with the steam video maker but still.
It's like they go for realistic lighting and textures but still have the stylized proportions. They have just always looked off and makes it seem inconsistant.
Dota's CGI style still fits in line with the art atyle of the game. Its made with the steam video maker but still.
Call milkman when Phownix is in CM
I did think about that after Newbee's draft. They'll definitely make better promotional material than Io. The blob doesn't turn into a statue particularly well.
He has the same exact ult, so basically.
In other Leeg news, one of their popular (retired) players said something bad about Riot's balancing team on Twitter which lead to Morello and Tryndamere tweeting him questions a bunch on what they can fix, which lead to Tryndamere retweeting this baffling tweet:
I honestly have no clue whats going on.
People have been complaining about Riot's balancing since... well... when I was playing. Their approach is to simply nerf into the ground anything that becomes popular or people complain a lot about which just ruins heroes until months or years later when they decide to go back and "rework those problematic" heroes. Which, given their business model of selling heroes, is really horrible for the players as their purchases become "worthless" (not really, but who wants to put themselves at a disadvantage in these games especially when you get more Riot spacebucks for winning) in the ever cycling balance patches.
Honestly, I think Riot doesn't know what's going on more than anyone else.
Nerfing because of pick rates and nothing else is a bad way to go about balancing the game. We know the competitive meta is incredibly trend based. What's popular has more to do with what everyone else is playing than it does with which heroes are overpowered or not. Over the last couple of years, there's tons of heroes which simply fall off the face of the competitive scene even without receiving any nerfs. The new balance patch will introduce a lot of buffs to underused heroes which will encourage teams to try them and build strategies around them which will naturally lead to prior popular heroes being forgotten.
On the other hand, Lycan having a near 100% pick/ban and still sitting at an incredibly high win rate suggests there might be a balancing issue which is why I suspect he'll receive some sort of nerf. Doom and Shadow Shaman are possible contenders as well for getting nerfs because of their over-saturation and continued win rates.
But Razor and Brewmaster? These heroes are more likely to fall off once teams go back to practicing and developing strategies to beat them. The last thing they need are nerfs given the long amount of time they've languished in obscurity AND the fact they aren't even performing well even with all this attention. Batrider nerfs also seem unjustified given that he's at that sweet 50% winrate spot.
Pick rates are the last thing you want to balance around or we'll end up with Riot balancing which is easily the worst approach. If people have ways to deal with him when he gets picked, then Razor, Tide and Brew aren't over-powered and do not justify weakening. The goal is to make every hero viable--not to enforce competitive players abandoning popular picks.
I don't think pick rate is something to ignore entirely. Part of the reason Razor's winrate are so shit was because everyone was picking him. He was bound to rack up losses since it was a coinflip that determined if the losing team or the winning team would get Razor/SWM. It's not that he himself is a problematic hero, but that his kit is bullying other heroes from mid, for whatever reason I can't fathom.
Gully State
Member
I've always been around 3K-3.3K mmr and quite frankly all your complaints exist in my games at that bracket all the time...and probably exist for 4K and 5K too..
Anyways I dipped below 3K solo queue for awhile and my solution out of it was simply to play late game supports that have good AOE spells (disruptor is one I pick a lot- since he has good lane presence and glimpse punishes any semblance of being out of position). The problem with ranked mm right now especially at the lower mm bracket is that everyone picks mid heroes or late game carries (I facepalm every time I see last pick Pudge which happens pretty much every other game when I solo queue). I won't say that Actionslacks vid is completely right but he has a point with playing supports. Also, I've been having a bit more success with strength heroes in general. In low level solo queue, it's the heroes that have low HP that get picked on often and so strength heroes are kinda ignored unless they're severely underleveled or it's a huge man advantage. Last time I played on a team with 5 tanky heroes, it was fun watching the enemy team hesitate on which target to go after since there was no easy one shot kill (3K mmr).
In general, I get the impression that normal mm seems to have more cohesive play these days than ranked (I lose more in normal mm so it's not like I'm just saying that because I win often). I remember when ranked mm first rolled out and there was a period of a month or so where every match I played...people were talking and coordinating picks etc...but now it's devolved into a solo mmr grindfest where everyone goes for the same solo mid role in an attempt to rise above the trench then complains about how their teammates are derpy. When you do this...you're not just competing against the enemy team but also your own team at the same time.
I avoid All Pick unless I am in a five stack and even then my people like Captains mode more. If my people go all pick we get horrible games because everyone wants to play a hero they never used before. CM is the ticket to good games. Yes, there are much more tryhards, but if the captain isn't in derp mode like this
This was a 3.4k mmr captain. You can notice the plan of the bans and picks right off the bat.
Then you shouldn't get too much pubstomps like in AP.
Everyone knows green counters blue....duh...had he banned red...then yeah, trash captain
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I don't think Razor needs a serious nerf either. I think Storm is currently fine as it is. Maybe just something that makes his laning a bit harder? Drop is base Agi a couple points?
The_Hitcher89
Member
I love using Sniper when I don't fall behind early in levels and farm
depends on who the other team picked yolo
U srs? I hate playing Sniper
He dies in 1 hit past 10 minutes. Give me Drow anyday
This was a 3.4k mmr captain. You can notice the plan of the bans and picks right off the bat.
Then you shouldn't get too much pubstomps like in AP.
Ban the greens, pick the blues.
manfestival
Member
I will take sniper over drow any day. Shrapnel pushing all day and staying away from fights is great unless the team is full of assassins
I just played a game last night as dk and whenever a team fight started I would just lothar's through everyone and pop up next to sniper and just kill him. It was very satisfying.
The_Hitcher89
Member
I find that if you fall behind at any stage, he becomes hugely difficult to use. Like, when you're well-farmed and levelled, you can afford to get involved as long as you make sure not to get surrounded or let them get too close to negate your range advantage. But when underlevelled, I end up just having to hang around on the fringes firing off the odd ability and waddling away whenever an enemy gets within a 700 radius
He was picked five more times than Shadow Shaman and there's a fifteen percent difference between their winrates.
I'm not even saying that Shadow Shaman needs nerfs but it's bizarre Razor's being singled out over SS when their pick rates are about even and one is clearly outclassing the other in terms of success. As I said, the last thing we should balance around is "popularity" since it's such a fleeting measure in the first place. Balance should be reserved solely for things that are unbalanced--a statement which should be entirely unnecessary to make.
Razor's been languishing in obscurity and has only been considered a pick-up as a hard counter to OD and nothing else. It's refreshing to see him have his time in the spotlight but we don't need to artificially remove him and force him to be a shit hero because people are tired of seeing some teams choose him a lot.