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Double Fine Adventure ("Broken Age") Development Thread
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JasoNsider
Member
This is a Gabe quote now? Pretty sure that is actually originally said by Miyamoto long ago.
Isn't that from Miyamoto? Is the wisdom of the real Gaben not enough for you?
I looked it up, and yeah, Miyamoto did say it first. I didn't know that! I heard it first from Gaben, mind, and I think that's pretty much the exact quote he used.
Point still stands: I'd rather the game be delayed than them chop bits out and have it be not as good.
I haven't had a chance to watch the doc or soak in any of the news. I'm not too surprised at the split - some games might need "episodic" income models to fund production of the final parts of the game.
From a general view I can understand why people would be disappointed or feel that the game's development budget has been a little mismanaged. But I still think that this will all work out in the end.
Really curious to see the new doc episode.
From a general view I can understand why people would be disappointed or feel that the game's development budget has been a little mismanaged. But I still think that this will all work out in the end.
Really curious to see the new doc episode.
So, I read the latest update, and I was a bit confused. I backed for $15 to get the game, does this mean I'm automatically getting it on Early Access after the backers only beta, and then that Early Access copy gets transferred into a full copy of the game whenever it comes out? The only time I've dealt with Early Access is by accident by getting UnEpic in a bundle, so I'm not 100% sure how that works.
I'm all for giving Tim and the team all the time they need to make the game they want to, I wish people would be less inpatient. Between this and the BioShock DLC, all you guys are doing is giving publishers an excuse to rush their games in order to avoid bad PR.
I'm all for giving Tim and the team all the time they need to make the game they want to, I wish people would be less inpatient. Between this and the BioShock DLC, all you guys are doing is giving publishers an excuse to rush their games in order to avoid bad PR.
bonesmccoy
Banned
Judging from the reaction here, it looks like Double Fine enjoys enough credibility with its project backers for this (remarkable) delay to be largely accepted with a shrug or mere indifference. And good for them: it goes to show you how important it is to maintain a positive relationship with your fan-base.
I do wonder though if Double Fine will be able to run another Kickstarter project in the future. Do backers have any reason to expect that a target delivery date will be kept? Or that project funds will be managed properly? Or that future projects won't become mired by scope-creep?
I do wonder though if Double Fine will be able to run another Kickstarter project in the future. Do backers have any reason to expect that a target delivery date will be kept? Or that project funds will be managed properly? Or that future projects won't become mired by scope-creep?
That's what I started thinking about. Just how big are they making this game? Would they have still charged $15 for it, knowing what the scale has become?
That sounds like what the deal is, yes.
Oh
They just funded another one, like a week ago, right before this news.
Haunted
Member
Hm. You'd think experienced game designers and developers would be able to prevent scope creep. Especially on this scale and especially after getting that much money.
That said, this is not fucking anyone over, but it is yet another delay.
In related news, the writing update Tim posted on the backer forums is lengthy and extremely interesting. Great insight into the process of creating a character.
That said, this is not fucking anyone over, but it is yet another delay.
In related news, the writing update Tim posted on the backer forums is lengthy and extremely interesting. Great insight into the process of creating a character.
Family Fry
Member
Also Indie Fund is backing them for another 2 games, alongside Broken Age and Massive Chalice.
So they will be pretty busy, keeping all the teams working.
So they will be pretty busy, keeping all the teams working.
Haunted
Member
In the end, only 90k people backed the kickstarter (+ the slacker backers, but they haven't released any of those numbers. Maybe Chris can shed some light on these for the sake of transparency).
I would hope there's a larger audience to be found for a full blown new adventure by Tim Schafer and team than that. ;_;
Yeah but Massive Chalice is significantly less risky of a project. For one, it's much more mechanics focused than art and story focused, which brings down the budget a lot; it's on only one platform; and it's on their pre-existing in-house engine, so they don't need to develop new tech for it.
Games go over budget all the time, but we just don't see it because publishers are dealing with all that business. Fundamentally, funding a game with Kickstarter is no different except we have an insight into the development process and the developers have more creative freedom.
Would people back a kickstarter, where the premise is;
'Okay, the game is 2-3 years away, you are only partially funding the game, and there is no certainty this level of funding will complete it. You are also funding the first part if it finishes, which will then release as a Steam Early access product which will then further fund the completion of the game.
The answer is no. Unless its Shenmue 3 or some shit.
I understand all this; 'but hey you guys dont have to pay a dime and you are getting a much bigger project than anticipated!'. But i see that as unsubstantiated theories, where the reality could just as easily mean they ran into a brick wall which wasted money and are only gonna get the salvaged version. Lots of talk of downscaling in the updates.
So much salt on the last two pages. Just let 'em complete their game. I'd rather have Tim deliver a great game that comes out a couple months later than anticipated (I thought they said in one of the videos that they were aiming for a November 2013 release date at first) than a bad game that comes out in a couple months. If they can get extra funding through Steam's Early Access platform that's great. More money equals more game, so we all win.
If the game ends up sucking you can complain, but right now you haven't played any of it, you don't know how large it is etc. I don't really understand the hate. We were funding a new Double Fine point & click adventure and that's what we're getting. It's not like we're getting a completely different game than what they advertised.
If the game ends up sucking you can complain, but right now you haven't played any of it, you don't know how large it is etc. I don't really understand the hate. We were funding a new Double Fine point & click adventure and that's what we're getting. It's not like we're getting a completely different game than what they advertised.
Its more reaction to disappointment. If its good, then great. But i am certainly more hesitant to back DF on kickstarter now. Also the timing of the announcement right after Massive Chalice is an obvious con as well.
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
Honestly you should be mad about it.
At best its just merely gross incompetence and the fact they totally hid all of this until the 2nd project was funded makes it way worse than that.
I find all the general shrugging to this to be really bizarre. Double Fine has a lot of cache and goodwill built up because if this was anybody else people would be rightly upset about it.
Yeah okay, I can see why you would be disappointed and I agree. It's not cool to break the bad news after the second game has been funded, but it's not like we didn't know that they needed more money. We've known that since one or two videos ago. The only thing that kinda bothers me at the moment is that their original goal was 400k, and even with ten times that kind of money they can't even finish the game. What would've happened if they'd only gotten 400k?
Beelzeboss
Member
oh man I clicked on this thread expecting some good news
should there be another topic for this?
should there be another topic for this?
The scope would have been completely different instead of them aiming for a Grim Fandango-scope project with a unique art style.
bigwinnerx
Member
I'm in at the $100 tier, haven't followed it very closely and haven't watched much of the doc. Catching up on it a bit now.
Looks like they went waaayyy over budget/scope/time you name it here and are publicly admitting the lack of having internal project management skills on any level. That takes some balls and a similar dose of humility. Humble balls?
I guess whatever scheme they need to finish the project, so be it at this point.
(Hope with Massive Chalice they see they only got $1.2m and will now scope appropriately. Going hat in hand to backers ever again will be a bit too close to the boy crying wolf.)
Looks like they went waaayyy over budget/scope/time you name it here and are publicly admitting the lack of having internal project management skills on any level. That takes some balls and a similar dose of humility. Humble balls?
I guess whatever scheme they need to finish the project, so be it at this point.
(Hope with Massive Chalice they see they only got $1.2m and will now scope appropriately. Going hat in hand to backers ever again will be a bit too close to the boy crying wolf.)
The documentary alone has made my pledge more then worth it, so I'm not personally feeling screwed by this news. We are still far away from the "spectacular failure caught on camera", and even then we would still have the doc.
The mismanagement of scope it is a little worrisome. They appear to have got a "little" carried away when expanding the scope of the original 300k budget. But Kickstarters are always a risk, and the game does appear to shaping up nicely, so if the end we receive a decent size good old adventure game, it will be worth the wait.
Not going defend the decision to announce this after the Massive Chalice Kickstarter though. That was really not.... "nice".
The mismanagement of scope it is a little worrisome. They appear to have got a "little" carried away when expanding the scope of the original 300k budget. But Kickstarters are always a risk, and the game does appear to shaping up nicely, so if the end we receive a decent size good old adventure game, it will be worth the wait.
Not going defend the decision to announce this after the Massive Chalice Kickstarter though. That was really not.... "nice".
That game looks pretty slick in the newest doc ep.
Don't you understand that the scope of the game was increased substantially after the success of the KS? If they had only raised 400k they would be making a very different game.
Don't you understand that the scope of the game was increased substantially after the success of the KS? If they had only raised 400k they would be making a very different game.
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
Of course I know that. But it makes me wonder if they'd have the same problems they have right now with that kind of money (on a smaller scale, of course).
Yep, this news leaves me unsettled definitely; I went in at the $250 tier. So far the only game I've backed that has actually been released is Leisure Suit Larry. I still haven't made up my mind on what I think about Kickstarter yet. I'm really anticipating the release of Shadowrun next month, as it's the first big release that I know of. I'm curious to see just how deep an RPG could be with one year's dev time. We will certainly see.
As for Double Fine Adventure, as long as I get both parts and they're both quality releases, I have no choice but to accept that.
As for Double Fine Adventure, as long as I get both parts and they're both quality releases, I have no choice but to accept that.
bonesmccoy
Banned
Right, but back then we didn't know that DFA was about to significantly delayed (again) - or at least I don't think the money issues and expected delays were widely known. My question is that now that people do know, if they'll be able to use Kickstarter for a another project in the future.
Ultimately I think I'm alright with this, though it's definitely a "sausage making" moment. I guess my main worry would be that the Steam Early Access sales aren't enough to cover the remaining development costs. I don't think that's super likely, but it's something to consider.
At any rate, the in game footage from this episode looked great. I love the art style.
At any rate, the in game footage from this episode looked great. I love the art style.
bigwinnerx
Member
If they wanted hope of doing Massive Chalice via KS, this letter had to wait until after that funding was over and closed so people couldn't potentially back out after seeing hints of mismanagement.
Thus...this is all a bit gray. Did they know of DFA's problems and wait until MC was closed to admit it and go public? I'd say very likely. It's not illegal, it's just shady.
Thus...this is all a bit gray. Did they know of DFA's problems and wait until MC was closed to admit it and go public? I'd say very likely. It's not illegal, it's just shady.
Chris Remo
Member
We're completely transparent with slacker backer numbers--you can see the totals on the slacker backer page:
http://www.doublefine.com/dfapay
Haunted
Member
Oh, nice! Thanks.
To reiterate my initial point, that makes roughly 95k backers, I'm hoping there's a larger audience lurking behind those core fans.
CorySchmitz
Junior Member
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
Oh, nice! Thanks.
To reiterate my initial point, that makes roughly 95k backers, I'm hoping there's a larger audience lurking behind those core fans.
There has to be. The number of people interested in a thing must be bigger (almost by definition) than the number of people who are SO interested in a thing that they'd pay up front.
I didn't back it but I'm keenly interested in it based on what little I've seen and heard. Once it's up on Steam for everyone to see and word of mouth spreads it should gain plenty of fans. (If it's good, obviously.)
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
http://kotaku.com/somehow-tim-schafers-adventure-kickstarter-needs-more-652014092
Tim's apology is awesome. But it's still facepalmy.
If the rumors are to be believed, they are using part of MC's funds to help with DFA.
Again, rumor.
Tim's apology is awesome. But it's still facepalmy.
If the rumors are to be believed, they are using part of MC's funds to help with DFA.
Again, rumor.
GillianSeed79
Member
Okay, that would be fucked up. I backed Broken Age, but didn't back MC. I would be fucking pissed if I backed MC and they were using backer funds for that game for Broken Age. This is probably hyperbole, but that would be on the level of Gearbox stealing Sega's publisher money for Colonial Marines and putting it into Borderlands 2.
I posted this in the other thread, but these are my thoughts: (Again, I'm still getting the full game and the documentary has been amazing. Worth the cost of backing alone, but I'm still a little worried.)
I backed this with $100 pledge, which is a lot of money for me, but I love Tim and Double Fine. I am kind of bummed that the game is taking this long to make, but I'm still getting it in the end and the documentary has been great.
My biggest concern is that, I think Tim said this in one of the documentary videos, this game is probably going to be the most important game for Double Fine and potentially its future as an independent studio. Backers will still get the full game, but if it fails to deliver on top of a significant delay it might mean that people won't be so ready and willing to back future Double Fine crowdfunding endeavors or even more gaming Kickstarters in general since Double Fine was the poster child for what is/was supposed to be the future of self-funded games.
To be fair, the original Kickstarter goal was $300K for the game. I doubt they expected to raise as much money as they did and, thus, the scope of the game widened. I imagine the original concept was something like those one-off, quirky but quickie games they make during PAX or that Fortnight thing at Double Fine. With a million plus, I guess Tim got a little over ambitious. It's definitely an eye-opener regarding just how expensive it is to actually make a videogame.
That being said, it's kind of crazy that, especially considering that Leisure Suit Larry Reloaded just released, that Double Fine is looking at a two-to-three-year dev cycle for a point and click adventure game.
I'm sure some of the Kickstarter pledge rewards ate into the budget. I also think it was a terrible idea to have had Bagel be the lead artist on the game since he lives so far away from Double Fine's offices.
I still love Double Fine, but I'm starting to get worried about the future of the studio if this project is what makes or breaks them. I'm really interested to see if they'll release just how much the final budget for the game ends up being once all is said and done
Chris Remo
Member
What rumors? Where did they come from?
Nabs
Member
Don't stress it. You're just going off a rumor that he keeps bring up like it came from somewhere important.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
You even responded to it. You said you have not heard anything of the sort.
Well, if true, it is pretty damn important. I'm not trying to be a White Knight here (or a Black Knight), but come on. I it's not true, then it's not true.
Chris Remo
Member
And I still haven't. You're the only person I've seen bring it up. Where did you hear it?
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
E3. Look, I'm not trying to start shit. I'm just relaying information. It was just something I heard. I'm not trying to Talk Big.
CheesecakeRecipe
Stormy Grey
You brought that up some time ago and to this day you are the only person I've ever seen talk about that.
I'm pretty sure Chris did deny the rumor in the Massive Chalice thread though. At least, I have some memory of this happening. So I think you're right that he has responded already.
It's okay guys, we can relax now.
The last point is debatable.
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