Support NeoGAF

[Nightbird]

Please don't bring up Naruto vs Pain. That's high quality animation.

High Quality Animation doesn't mean anything when the execution completely misses the point of the scene (or the fight in this Case)


I have no Trouble believing that the actual animation was good, but in the end the whole exaggerated Style still made the whole thing looking worse than it should.

Kakashi vs Obito on the other Hand was on point.

 

[Boss Doggie]

It really is a downgrade from Battle of Gods though. Also Yamcha looks weird.

 

[ugly]

Guys, anime is dying. It's that simple really. Things pass. The high-budget days and global appreciation is waning and ending. We're past the glory days. Animation is not over, and maybe in tens of years there will be an anime resurgence. But it's not now. Just accept that more DBZ is coming out. Toriyama is aging. At least none of you live in a third world country. That is all.

 

[Anth0ny]

Guys, anime is dying. It's that simple really. Things pass. The high-budget days and global appreciation is waning and ending. We're past the glory days. Animation is not over, and maybe in tens of years there will be an anime resurgence. But it's not now. Just accept that more DBZ is coming out. Toriyama is aging. At least none of you live in a third world country. That is all.

dragon ball kinda transcends anime, though

I think that's why this is so annoying

they could treat this shit with a little respect, it's going to make them a fuckzillion dollars

 

[Dagobert Duck]

dragon ball kinda transcends anime, though

I think that's why this is so annoying

they could treat this shit with a little respect, it's going to make them a fuckzillion dollars

I think you are right, Dragon Ball isnt anime..its Dragon Ball...its the most known Anime around the world I guess. Back when OG Dragon Ball was running even my mom enjoyed watching it with me...so its really something else, thats why I hope TOEI will get it right and atleast pull out some good animations for official releases (I dont care if downloads or discs..)

 

[Polioliolio]

You know, at the time of DBZ, American animation sucked. I was a huge anime nerd probably thanks to DBZ.

And now I'm going to say the unthinkable...


I think they should hand this shit over to an American team. American cartoon animation has come a loooong way in the last 20 years... Even if all the animators are Korean, they still get good shit done.


So ironically, it is now Japanese animation that sucks.

 

[ArchedThunder]

dragon ball kinda transcends anime, though

I think that's why this is so annoying

they could treat this shit with a little respect, it's going to make them a fuckzillion dollars

The anime industry in general is fucked up right now, "treating this shit with a little respect" isn't going to change anything.

 

[Bikkun]

This thread has a surprising amount of nostalgia-based comments, I will say...

 

[SeppOCE]

It's obvious they're trying to push out as many episodes as they can very quickly so I'm not surprised the animation wasn't all that amazing this episode. I did really enjoy the fight though it did a much better job at showing how strong Beerus is at this moment in time than what Battle of Gods was able to show.

 

[NeonZ]

I think they should hand this shit over to an American team. American cartoon animation has come a loooong way in the last 20 years... Even if all the animators are Korean, they still get good shit done.

There's no magic behind that though. Korean animators do better work for American cartoons because American cartoons generally have higher budget and a less tight schedule.

 

[Karsha]

At this pace the boring BOG saga will take at least another 10 episodes... and hopefully they don't adapt resurection of F too, i don't want a new series covering the last 2 movies in 30 episodes + , let it be new stuff already

 

[Zalman]

At this pace the boring BOG saga will take at least another 10 episodes... and hopefully they don't adapt resurection of F too, i don't want a new series covering the last 2 movies in 30 episodes + , let it be new stuff already

They will. But there should be some new stuff in between before that happens.

 

[Blader]

At this pace the boring BOG saga will take at least another 10 episodes... and hopefully they don't adapt resurection of F too, i don't want a new series covering the last 2 movies in 30 episodes + , let it be new stuff already

They are covering both movies. So may as well just tune out for the next few months.

 

[Window]

I think there is room for new material for the Return of F arc as the film skips over a lot of things but the BoG story is feeling rather stretched out unless they introduce Champa soon.

 

[andymcc]

the hyperbole in this thread.

have some of you guys watched dragon ball z recently? there are so many instances where it looks worse than this recent episode of Super...

 

[TheRealTalker]

Guys, anime is dying. It's that simple really. Things pass. The high-budget days and global appreciation is waning and ending. We're past the glory days. Animation is not over, and maybe in tens of years there will be an anime resurgence. But it's not now. Just accept that more DBZ is coming out. Toriyama is aging. At least none of you live in a third world country. That is all.

No longing running Anime is dying

Anime is slowly transitioning towards Season based Animes

as in they do one Season and take a break and then return..... therefore managing the quality

 

[munchie64]

Anime is dying cause a Dragon Ball episode looks like shit? lol wat

 

[Crocodile]

Holy fucking shit is there some silly shit being said in this thread. "Oh noes a single episode in a long running show looks kind of bad, the end is nigh!". What kind of bubble are you guys living in? The nostalgia and "I have no fucking clue how animation works" is strong up in here.

 

[HammerOfThor]

Anime is dying cause a Dragon Ball episode looks like shit? lol wat

I thought that was a funny comment too.

We all know anime is dying because there's been a complete lack of good anime recently

 

[Cwarrior]

Who cares about goku anyways, toei had there priority straight by giving hoehoe the better looking episode

Ssj1 stuff was bad but it's not the end of the world,I enjoyed the other 4 episodes.

 

[AgeEighty]

the hyperbole in this thread.

have some of you guys watched dragon ball z recently? there are so many instances where it looks worse than this recent episode of Super...

It's been pointed out a bunch, but a lot of people refuse to take off the nostalgia glasses.

 

[Dereck]

worst part about that is one episode was pretty much the greatest looking dbz episode of all time:

and then the scene continues into the beginning of the next episode, arguable the worst looking episode of all time:

jarring as fuck

Why did this happen?

 

[Magwik]

Episode 5 wasn't even bad, really. It's a combination of already seeing the fight happen in the movie at a much higher quality, and people who look back at DBZ through rose tinted glasses. Of course the episode could have been better, but it wasn't as offensive as people are making it out to be.

 

[Real Hero]

Z's animation always seemed way worse than original dragon ball from like episode 1

 

[Heroman]

Guy this is a 100+ anime shows, there will be good looking episodes and bad looking ones that how these long anime goes.

 

[munchie64]

Why did this happen?

Different studios/supervisors doing the animation.
Look at the comparisons here: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/animation-styles/

 

[Anth0ny]

Why did this happen?

it's how a weekly anime works. one week you get the good animation team, the next week you get the budget squad.

Read all about it here

Guy this is a 100+ anime shows, there will be good looking episodes and bad looking ones that how these long anime goes.

I think another interesting thing about Super that western dragon ball fans have never had to deal with is the one week wait between episodes. back in the day, everything was already out there if you looked hard enough. at the very least, you were grabbing a VHS tape with three episodes or more on it. didn't toonami air a new episode every day? that's how it was in canada.

now, we have a full fucking week to dwell on this terribly animated episode that is already a boring ass, padded out retelling of a movie we've already watched a bunch of times. back in the day if you saw a poorly animated episode it was on to the next one.

 

[Dereck]

Read all about it here

Thanks

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Wow, only 5 episodes in and we've got a new ED: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT-5lKoUdZs

 

[Lemaitre]

Wow, only 5 episodes in and we've got a new ED: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT-5lKoUdZs

Hilarious.

Haven't had the time to watch Super but I've read enough to know about the debacle.

 

[biosnake20]

Wow, only 5 episodes in and we've got a new ED: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT-5lKoUdZs

I'm almost pissed myself lol

 

[Polioliolio]

Episode 5 wasn't even bad, really. It's a combination of already seeing the fight happen in the movie at a much higher quality, and people who look back at DBZ through rose tinted glasses. Of course the episode could have been better, but it wasn't as offensive as people are making it out to be.

It's not rose tinted. I've been going back and looking at the old stuff since watching Super. The old style was so much better, and the old techniques produce better looking results than quickly drawn CG lines.

 

[kewlmyc]

Wow, only 5 episodes in and we've got a new ED: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT-5lKoUdZs

Fantastic.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Wow, only 5 episodes in and we've got a new ED: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT-5lKoUdZs

Hahah oh wow

 

[Crocodile]

Wow, only 5 episodes in and we've got a new ED: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT-5lKoUdZs

LOL almost spit my drink out LOL

I feel bad for the actual animators at Toei - not the company but the little men & women doing the grunt work. I mean the end result wasn't great but, as is often the case in anime production, they were probably given the short stick with regards to time. The occasional bad looking episode is common in long running (or even short running) shows regardless of their popularity or overall quality. I imagine a lot of people watching DBS aren't familiar enough with the industry to know this and are thus throwing temper tantrums and other silliness

I do wish Toei had treated this show special and gave it all the time & money it deserves but corporate is going to corporate :/

It's not rose tinted. I've been going back and looking at the old stuff since watching Super. The old style was so much better, and the old techniques produce better looking results than quickly drawn CG lines.

Can you stop pretending like you know what you're even talking about?

 

[Polioliolio]

LOL almost spit my drink out LOL

I feel bad for the actual animators at Toei - not the company but the little men & women doing the grunt work. I mean the end result wasn't great but, as is often the case in anime production, they were probably given the short stick with regards to time. The occasional bad looking episode is common in long running (or even short running) shows regardless of their popularity or overall quality. I imagine a lot of people watching DBS aren't familiar enough with the industry to know this and are thus throwing temper tantrums and other silliness

I do wish Toei had treated this show special and gave it all the time & money it deserves but corporate is going to corporate :/



Can you stop pretending like you know what you're even talking about?

Are you kidding me?

I know what I like, and it's of my opinion that DBZ's pencilled, chunkier style looks infinitely better than the sterilized CG produced Super.
All the Dragon Ball fans I personally know have similar sentiments.

Battle of Gods at least had the budget behind it to make it look good.

The way you talk, it's as though we should just accept that it's normal for modern anime to look like garbage. Can't question the corporation or the lousy working environment of the animators, nope, we're just all having tantrums.

Bah.

Well fortunately for you, I think I'm done.
The show isn't improving, to the contrary it's getting worse. It was fun to follow it and talk about it as I grew up with DB and DBZ, but Super is a sad attempt at wringing more money out of the brand without doing it justice and it's discouraging to see fellow fans eat it up.

Ah well.

 

[Kave_Man]

Who cares about goku anyways, toei had there priority straight by giving hoehoe the better looking episode


Ssj1 stuff was bad but it's not the end of the world,I enjoyed the other 4 episodes.

What is this?

 

[Tansut]

Wow, only 5 episodes in and we've got a new ED: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT-5lKoUdZs

I lose my shit when he looks at the camera at the end.

 

[NastyBook]

Buttlord GT. Man, this shit was classic from top to bottom.

WAGE!

 

[Wazzy]

Wow, only 5 episodes in and we've got a new ED: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT-5lKoUdZs

Oh my god at him turning and looking with the best face from all of this. :lol :lol

 

[Unknown One]

Are you kidding me?

I know what I like, and it's of my opinion that DBZ's pencilled, chunkier style looks infinitely better than the sterilized CG produced Super.
All the Dragon Ball fans I personally know have similar sentiments.

Battle of Gods at least had the budget behind it to make it look good.

The way you talk, it's as though we should just accept that it's normal for modern anime to look like garbage. Can't question the corporation or the lousy working environment of the animators, nope, we're just all having tantrums.

Bah.

Well fortunately for you, I think I'm done.
The show isn't improving, to the contrary it's getting worse. It was fun to follow it and talk about it as I grew up with DB and DBZ, but Super is a sad attempt at wringing more money out of the brand without doing it justice and it's discouraging to see fellow fans eat it up.

Ah well.

I put Super barely above GT. It is definitely not up to DB/DBZ standards.

 

[Ultra Numb]

I wonder how powerful SSG Gohan would be, considering how strong he is when he's in shape.

 

[brinstar]

It's not rose tinted. I've been going back and looking at the old stuff since watching Super. The old style was so much better, and the old techniques produce better looking results than quickly drawn CG lines.

I agree that traditional animation looks better than modern stuff but it's not the 90's anymore. And there are plenty of shitty looking episodes of DBZ. It's NOT high art.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6XQAiXlKIg

 

[DiipuSurotu]

I agree that traditional animation looks better than modern stuff but it's not the 90's anymore. And there are plenty of shitty looking episodes of DBZ. It's NOT high art.

Meh, this shot is decent. It just looks like something from a US cartoon instead of an anime. It doesn't look like it was drawn by a 4-year-old kid like the recent Super episode.

 

[HardRojo]

People already rating Super 5 episodes in. Wow.
We know the show is going to be long so not all episodes are going to be full of action. It's not Death Note.

 

[Astral Dog]

Wow, only 5 episodes in and we've got a new ED: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT-5lKoUdZs

en plan coña

 

[Welfare]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6XQAiXlKIg

LOL this is amazing.

 

[AwakenedCloud]

Do we have any new idea what type of budget Super has behind it. I more or less gave up on watching anime about 4 years into Shipuuden so my points of reference may be off, but so far this series has reminded me of mid budget filler. I truly want to like this series, but I can't think of a single fight that pointless in DB Kai. The reuse of the punching and dodging animation was driving me insane. In previous episode the still shots with audio over them also bugged me, maybe it's a new thing but I don't recall most of the shonens I watched doing that. It just seemed like they wanted to test the waters if people wanted more DBZ and put together some quick pilots to guage interest.

 

[Crocodile]

Are you kidding me?

I know what I like, and it's of my opinion that DBZ's pencilled, chunkier style looks infinitely better than the sterilized CG produced Super.
All the Dragon Ball fans I personally know have similar sentiments.

Battle of Gods at least had the budget behind it to make it look good.

The way you talk, it's as though we should just accept that it's normal for modern anime to look like garbage. Can't question the corporation or the lousy working environment of the animators, nope, we're just all having tantrums.

Bah.

Well fortunately for you, I think I'm done.
The show isn't improving, to the contrary it's getting worse. It was fun to follow it and talk about it as I grew up with DB and DBZ, but Super is a sad attempt at wringing more money out of the brand without doing it justice and it's discouraging to see fellow fans eat it up.

Ah well.

A) I've always been critical of the working conditions that end up producing episodes like these from time to time. Shit I posted that huge twitter dump earlier because I wanted people to be more aware of what was going on. The fact is that these aren't new conditions. Its been like this for 50+ years. This system is still able to produce some wonderful looking anime but when you get into a long running series like this, you're going to run into problems. The same sort of problems that the original series would sometimes run into. If you're comparing episode 5 of DBS to the cream de la creme of the classic series then yes it comes up very short. If you compare it to the worst of the classic series, the difference is going to be smaller than you seem willing to admit. The nostalgia filter is also going to be high. Also, are you freeze framing some of those classic episodes to look for inbetween shots?

B) I call it tantrums (I'm referring to everything I've seen online, not specifically you/GAF) because the reaction is not proportional to the situation. It's fine to be disappointed but its one episode in a potentially 100+ episode series. A lot of people sound furious and given their comments, part of their rage and the degree of anger is clearly fueled by ignorance - that's part of the reason Kazenshuu even had to write that article they did. If people went around making fake openings (they are funny though) every time something went off model in one of these types of shows there would be no end. Nor does it preclude the show overall from being good. If there are issues with DBS, it is pace and the fact that its covering old ground rather than animation.

C) "Rapidly drawn CG lines" as a statement doesn't make any sense. These are all still drawn, checked and corrected by hand. That's how anime is still typically produced. They aren't just clicking random buttons on a CGI program or some shit. That's part of the reason you actually tend to see some stylistically variation (compare Episode 4 to the other ones) unless the animation director (a different position than the director themselves) really claps down on things. Just because computers are better able to aid in the production of animation nowadays doesn't at all reduce or diminish the skill or effort require to produce competent animation.