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[E3] Do we really need the next-gen consoles so soon?

theclaw135 said:
I dread the hardware architecture change each generation typical of consoles.

Microsoft began on x86, then skipped it for a gen.
Sony has had a different CPU family for every Playstation.
Nintendo held out a while, only to end their long run with PowerPC in a whimper.
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I want to say that MS is trying to keep their future console architecture as similar as possible for next gen, and that's what MS means when they say no more generations. But I could just as easily be flat out wrong. I'm not a an expert by any means when it comes to pc hardware.
 
Technology is always progressing, sooner or later we need (developers and cosumers) to move forward.

I, however, wish the next gen console (s)
will be released in 2020/21. I think next year is too soon. But beyond 2022 is way too late for a fresh start.
 
Why people think it's too soon? Next year it will be 6 years.
PS3 and Xbox360 needed to last 7-8 years because PS3 took huge loses at the beginning and it was a economic recession.Not to mention PS3 had much better hardware than PS4(compared to high-end PC at relative time).
It's not even about graphics for next gen,10-12TF will do fine.We need MUCH better CPU.It's not just about graphics.

Making games for powerful 8 core Zen CPU/10-12TF GPU as a lowest common denominator is a huge next gen thing.
 
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I'm fine with my Pro until 2020-2021.
Have said it in another thread but I think this gen still has more to offer. Last gen felt dated and struggling in it's final years. Games struggled to hit 30 fps, had MASSIVE graphical downgrades compared to PC and some of them even needed to have their features downgraded (like battlefield having less players).


But right now games on consoles still look and play great. Visuals do IMO still hold up nicely with PC and some of the exclusives are among the best looking games of the gen and only getting better. Framerates also feel more stable, yes we see dips from 30fps but unlike late last gen it's mostly shorts dips during taxing scenes instead of a constantly fluctuating 25-30fps.


Sakura Doritos said:
All you need to do is look at The Division on the X, God of War and Horizon Zero Dawn and then imagine them in 60fps AND iterated systems that may not have been able to be advanced or removed from the game altogether in able to keep a constant fps.

On base hardware. No pro or X support.
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Except the next Horizon and God of War on Ps5 are probably just going to look much nicer and run at 30fps.
There's nothing about current gen console which keeps them from running games at 60fps, it's the devs that decide to push visuals, size and resolution over framerate and that probably won't change next gen.

Current consoles (the newer models in particular) can run some of the best looking games of last gen like Uncharted 3 or God of war 3 at 60fps. But did devs decide to release last gen looking games at 60fps? Nope, for the most part they focused on using the more powerful hardware to increase the visuals of their new games
 
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Raynes said:
Just give me a portable Sony console that can play all PS3/4 games and I'll die in peace.
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Ps4 cant even play ps3 games because of its complex architecture. Asking for both, on a handheld no less qlong with its own exclusives is just asking for disappointment.
 
I don't think there will be much hardware gap (if any) between both next gen consoles (assuming they launch around the Same time and same price point), it will be between services and maybe specific hardware customizations, since Sony seems to prioritise different things than MS.
 
We're coming up on 5 years since the PS4 and X1 releases. No idea what is "so soon" about it.

If it were up to me, I would start making the Pro and the X1X the base model and announce an end up support for the original PS4 and X1 in 2020.
 
No but then again we didn't need mid-gen upgrades either but a lot of people bought them regardless giving a pretty clear message to platform holders that modern gamers want new hardware every 3 years.

This is what modern gamers have become. Spoiled man-children that they (or their parents) have lots of cash to burn for a never-ending lust for higher specs and glossy graphics while forgeting what really matters (unique and deep gameplay and art)
 
undead77 said:
Yes. The current set was entirely too weak to start with. Any console going forward should be able to maintain 60fps, and nice visuals going forward. 30fps is unacceptable in this day and age.
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That's not how games work. That's not how developers work. That's not how consoles work.

Straight up, there is no amount of power that will get you your 60 FPS in every game. Some Developers will always go 30 FPS in exchange for the power to do other things, such as better explosions, better draw distance, better physics, better fluids and grass, better destructability, more enemies on screen, better textures, and on and on and on.

No matter how powerful your console is, the same trade-offs will always occur. This is how technology works. We will never have 60 FPS as a standard, and that's a good thing, because it means some developers will push other areas too.
 
2020 it's a fine timeframe for both along with halo infinte and next naughty dog game at launch
Elder scroll on spring 2021 along with cyberpunk

2019 is packed full

4K will become the resolution standard in by the same timeframe on lcd and oled device will be @ 1999€ /65" display (sweet spot )

Next gen will keep compatibility with Xbox one x and ps4 pro (at entry price point below 199€ )
And keep previous generation playable on streaming
 
Aaron Olive said:
2019 will make 6 years so yeah it's time.
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Maybe if they didn't just do mid-gen refreshes.

You have to look at what makes sense from a technology side. A $400 PS5 late next year may not be significantly more powerful than an xboneX. That's a pretty damn week 'generational leap' technologically if you ask me. 2020 could be a better sweetspot... 7nm should be ready for prime time at a reasonable price point.
 
sublimit said:
No but then again we didn't need mid-gen upgrades either but a lot of people bought them regardless giving a pretty clear message to platform holders that modern gamers want new hardware every 3 years.

This is what modern gamers have become. Spoiled man-children that they (or their parents) have lots of cash to burn for a never-ending lust for higher specs and glossy graphics while forgeting what really matters (unique and deep gameplay and art)
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It's not what modern gamers have become. It's that filthy casuals have become modern gamers... 20 years ago these same tools were just watching sports instead...
 
No way. Seeing the massive leap in quality over just the past year, it feels like we've barely scratched the surface of what can be produced using the current gen.
Honestly, I'd be more than ok with another 3-4 years of what we're seeing today.
 
well if they want to release it 2021, then they have to develop it now

but at least now they will be fully backward compatible.
 
I think a 2020 release for the next consoles is fine I mean is clear that the market demands new consoles (Xone X, PS4 pro sales) but I´m concerned more about the services that both would offer "around" the consoles.
 
I'm ok with generations being faster, but I would rather they stop with the obvious bottlenecks in the design phase. I'm sure it's very difficult to design a console that comes out in 3-5 years, and pre-measure the CPU architecture/RAM advancements, etc, but that's still what I wish would happen. If the CPUs weren't as much of a bottleneck right now, we'd see a lot more impressive stuff from both PS4 Pro and XboneX.
 
I like MS approach of focusing on AI and more dynamic and realistic interaction with the environment. Graphics are already great but to make them better isnt in the visuals but to make interaction more realistic imo. Better physics, more realistic lighting, basically things happen as it should in the real world. For this i believe better processing is needed hence another refresh to a more powerful cpu. Perhaps they will add something to make access to the cloud faster and better, like dedicated chips etc... Sorry not a tech guy. Either way the future needs to be something beyond just graphics but experience. With MS development background they're poised to own this area.
 
I don't think we do need next gen consoles anytime soon. As much as I love the state of the art, I think the existing consoles provide the major developers with ample technological resources with which to realise their ideas from a gameplay perspective. The problem is that those ideas are often beholden to a level of graphical fidelity that said technological resources can never wholly accomodate. To put it another way; they should cut their coats according to their cloth.
 
onlyoneno1 said:
I don't think we need new hardware in the next couple of years. And there aren't going to be any announcements for at least 2 years.
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Wishful thinking on your part. A new console will definitely be out in 2 years (give or take a couple months), let alone announced. You're going to be sorely disappointed if you think there's not going to be any official announcements from either company next year. Shoot, even MS was already dropping hints at this years E3. The next-gen war has begun.

Ka-Kui said:
I'd be happy with another 5 more years of this generation, or even 10. The graphics are fine as it is, just give me more great games.
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Well thank god you don't run Sony or MS then lol.

makaveli60 said:
Maybe yes. But until date I think all games looked the same on the more powerful console as on the weaker (PS4-Pro, XBO-XBX) besides resolution and framerate, and we know that the weaker consoles can show insane visuals in the right hands.
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Resolution & framerate is a BIG "besides".And besides, most of those engines were built with the base systems in mind with Pro & 1X just adding sprinkles on top. Base PS4 & Xbox have been tapped, the only changes you're seeing in slight changes to game engines & and/or better artwork. Not to mention, you'll just anger PC gamers, as they get the short end of the stick everytime these console generations drag out with engines aimed at underpowered consoles. At least with the new consoles, new engines will be developed or upgraded & tailored towards the new systems so you'll see much bigger visual enhancements all-around. The sooner we get there, the sooner we can leave these trash bottlenecked CPU consoles in the past.
 
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Nah, consoles just reached the technical gap, just like CPUs like 5 years ago. CPUs are in the gap a long time ago and there is just nothing for the end user that justifies a faster CPU, nothing. Same for consoles.
 
If the recent press conferences are anything to go by, I'm getting bored of this generation.

The games we saw today could have just as easily been made 2 years ago. That's when you know we've hit stagnation since we're seeing fewer and fewer original titles in favor of sequels and very safe gameplay.

I would definitely welcome new hardware in 2019 or early 2020. PS4/XBO lasting 7 years means nothing if the last 2 years feel derivative and bland. New console announcements always forces the industry to wake up and compete harder for your dollars, instead of pumping out the same games year after year with no one really questioning it.
 
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JohnnyFootball said:
We're coming up on 5 years since the PS4 and X1 releases. No idea what is "so soon" about it.

If it were up to me, I would start making the Pro and the X1X the base model and announce an end up support for the original PS4 and X1 in 2020.
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Except "next gen" consoles aren't going to be the X or Pro. If they stop supporting base models, they stop supporting the "upgraded" ones too.
 
Seeing what was shown at E3 I feel like devs are moving towards next gen projects. Lots of solid games to come don't get me wrong but the showcase still feels like an end of gen show.
 
Its needed so long as developers say its needed. So if Bethesda is working on Starfield and Elder Scrolls VI and they feel they need something more beefy to make it exist, you'll see those Next gen machines roll out.

I feel fall 2020/2021 is fair
 
After seeing the visuals being pushed on PS4 and Xbox One in many games this E3 I can patiently wait till 2020.
Sure, those games are probably running on PS4 Pro and One X but those consoles offers basically a resolution increase and the core assets (poly count, animation, textures, draw distance, particles) are basically the same most of the time.
 
No, we don't really need new game consoles. Graphics are at a point where they a already so good and that's most time the only thing you need new hardware for.
So many indi titles show that you don't need the newest graphics effects to make a great game. Good graphics can support good gameplay, but not more.
You can do so much with the memory in the current console if it is not only use it as graphics-memory.

well yes, new hardware is always nice, but do we really need it, no.
 
Allandor said:
No, we don't really need new game consoles. Graphics are at a point where they a already so good and that's most time the only thing you need new hardware for.
So many indi titles show that you don't need the newest graphics effects to make a great game. Good graphics can support good gameplay, but not more.
You can do so much with the memory in the current console if it is not only use it as graphics-memory.

well yes, new hardware is always nice, but do we really need it, no.
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". Graphics are at a point where they a already so good and that's most time the only thing you need new hardware for. "

yea....no.

You know not of what many teams are doing with the new hardware as to say only thing you need it for is "graphics". They might be doing stuff that need more ram, CPU etc example, what if someone is making a open world game where you can enter every building?

Soooooo you don't really know what they might be doing with that power to say its only about "graphics".
 
I'm still in the Fall 2019 boat. Waiting won't really bring significantly more powerful hardware. It might be necessary from a price point of view, but I do think next gen consoles will be expensive regardless, and cross-gen will be long this time. That said, I want to see Starfield and TES6 sooner rather than later. I play mostly on PC so delaying next gen consoles means all the AAA's are still limited by netbook class processors. I think the density of current gaming worlds is seriously hampered by the lack of processing power.
 
New generation of consoles means increased firepower.
...which means increased expectations.
...which means increased development costs.
...which means more monetization.
...which results in...
Totally+unplayablebuggybland+410+hour+games+with+an+assload+of+dlc+_005b946402d32849b5aff67830057fa9.jpg


I say, "Let's stay where we are, as long as we don't feel the urge for moar graphics".
 
To expand, I initially said 2020, but that's also me going off my belief that it takes a good 2-3 years for a console to really get going library-wise, and that I won't be looking to put any money down for anything new until 2022 at the earliest. Basically I'm planning to get another 3-4 years out of my PS4 Pro just personally.
 
Newk86 said:
To expand, I initially said 2020, but that's also me going off my belief that it takes a good 2-3 years for a console to really get going library-wise, and that I won't be looking to put any money down for anything new until 2022 at the earliest. Basically I'm planning to get another 3-4 years out of my PS4 Pro just personally.
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Seeing Sony's conference yesterday, I have the feeling PS5 is coming holiday 2019. You can keep your pro for 1.5-2.5 years after that, but you are not gonna get many first party games. And third party, we will see.

I don't know. It feels so soon. I am happy with Sony, but if Microsoft comes later with a significant power boost and some games, I might change sides.
 
baphomet said:
Except "next gen" consoles aren't going to be the X or Pro. If they stop supporting base models, they stop supporting the "upgraded" ones too.
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I am operating under the assumption that the old way is over and there will be shorter less significant upgrade cycles similar to how the iphone/ipad/android etc get a new revision and the software continues to support the hardware several generations behind the current. Of course, there is a no way it would be every year, but 3 or 2 at the absolute shortest.

Personally I hope that is the route they go, but we have no way of knowing how well it will work for consoles.
 
I wouldn't rush to conclude 2019 will see a new console. I think MS was mainly talking to fence sitters to let them know they are staying in the console business, will stress power, and will be doing everything they can to allow current purchases to be playable on the next system. I actually appreciated hearing that even though this is my first generation now owning an Xbox. I'll be waiting for final details closer to launches to make a decision, but if MS sticks to these principles and Sony doesn't, I see MS eating up a ton of market share next generation.
 
I think MS wants a more powerful console so they can do good VR. I mean 1440p/90fps. The X CPU is under-powered, it can't do that. The next wave of Windows Mixed Reality headsets will be 1440p/90fps capable so that lines up nicely with fall 2020.
 
This E3 is a very big bullet point for not needing next gen consoles anytime soon. The big players are seemingly able to produce less and less as the specs/graphical fidelity demands increase. Next gen would just make it worse.
 
octiny said:
Not to mention, you'll just anger PC gamers, as they get the short end of the stick everytime these console generations drag out with engines aimed at underpowered consoles. At least with the new consoles, new engines will be developed or upgraded & tailored towards the new systems so you'll see much bigger visual enhancements all-around. The sooner we get there, the sooner we can leave these trash bottlenecked CPU consoles in the past.
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That's the purpose of the X and the pro.
 
From a tech perspective, 7 nm and AMD's Navi GPU architecture will likely be what decides when next gen is ready to launch. While we'll see first 7 nm GPUs this year, those are only for HPC market in low volumes, and the rumors are starting to point that consumer market 7 nm might have to wait until H2 2019 or even 2020 by the most pessimistic views. I don't think there's anything technically limiting console manufacturers from launching in Fall 2019, but it might not be feasible from a cost perspective.

The thing is, I don't think next gen consoles will hit a $400 price point at launch, or if they do they'll be lower spec than anticipated. Waiting a year for yields to mature and volume production to become cheaper might be necessary, but in my opinion once the hw is ready, there's not a lot of point in waiting for costs to drop down before launching. Sure there's going to be plenty of angry people if Sony or MS announced a $600 console, but at the end of the day, does it make sense for a console manufacturer to wait a year so they can launch for $100 less? People who are more price sensitive are less likely to buy a console during launch year anyways. If a console is launched a year earlier than people anticipate, but for $100 more than they expect, and after a year goes by it's right where they though it would be, what exactly was lost from the manufacturers' perspective? That's why I think the main deciding factors for launch timing is simply as soon as the GPU/CPU architecture is ready and the yields are sufficient.

Given the Pro models currently available, there's not as much pressure to make an affordable next gen system, but instead there is a lot of pressure to make a powerful system to differentiate as well as provide the resources needed for things like 4K, VR and ray-tracing. I think the console manufacturers need to think about hardware much more long term than "We need 8 Core Ryzen with 15 TFLOPS Navi and 32GB GDDR6 for $399 in 2020/2021 " that seems to be the prevailing attitude on forums. I don't think that's a realistic expectation tbh. Perhaps the manufacturers are going with two SKUs from the get go, but it might cause issues if the base model is too cut down, especially on the CPU side. If they can keep the CPU the same for the base model, they might launch a <10 TFLOP base model and a ~15TLOP premium model, and price those accordingly, and that would maybe soften the blow of people expecting very high specs and very low price. Choose one or the other.
 
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2021 is the perfect date for next gen imo. 2019 still has amazing games to look forward too and i'm sure there are games planned for 2020 too.
 
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