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[I NEED SCISSORS]

As much as I hate EA and their shitty Origin service (moreso because it's causing the rift between themselves and Steam) - I have to say that this is blown out of proportion. Your information is already very much in the open thanks to Facebook, LinkedIn, online address books etc. Many respected companies spy on their customers, so I highly doubt EA knowing you like to watch Thai foot porn is going to adversely affect your online lifestyle, not least any more than sharing your details with Apple, Sony or Google. It's just the norm nowadays.

 

[Qwomo]

I'm so glad that Bioware is garbage these days and that BF3 looks insipid.

Completely ignoring Origin will be all the easier!

Boy, EA sure knows how to corner this PC market!

 

[DTKT]

Steam actually deleted my account due to inactivity, apparently. It was probably about two years as well. Someone else is using ErrorMacro now :\

I've never heard of Steam deleting accounts? Did you have any games on your account?

 

[Akkad]

Dice can go eat a dick, to be completely honest. The PC gaming community made them what they are today so the fact that they're allowing BF3 to be used as a wedge to drive people to Origin is pretty despicable.

What about the developers that use Steamworks to drive people to Steam, will they be dining on dicks as well?

 

[kitch9]

EA atleast isnt funding a port. Theyre providing dice the money to create the most technical advanded pc game so far.

Now we know why.

Its the most elaborate fucking trojan horse ever created.

 

[JakkuFurosu]

I expected greatness from this thread and thus far I am not disappointed. Keep up the good fight.

 

[Xabora]

Yup.

(╯ಠ_&#3232╯︵ ┻━┻

 

[Anton Sugar]

While i agree that there's not much they can do about it, the main DICE devs should get the fuck away from there asap if they care about anything. They're being held back from the opportunity to sell their game on the biggest digital download service there is.

This might be true for smaller games...but I really doubt that BF3's exclusion from Steam is going to have an impact on its sales.

As far as ethical business practices, if this is true, then yeah, that fucking sucks and I'd want DICE to leave, too. As it stands, they've had millions invested in a game they've been working on for years and understandably aren't going to alter their work because of Origin.

 

[shira]

okay you can see that I browse neogaf, porn, and play games.

WTF do want from me.

that way they can customize your neogaf/game/porn related ads and whom to sell your email address to.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Answer the question instead?

It's pretty hilarious that you reply with this since my point was that you completely misunderstood my post and instead responded with something completely irrelevant.

Let me make it as simple as possible for you. A single positive outcome, which is indefinite and in no way guaranteed, does not outweigh a long list of negatives.

What about the developers that use Steamworks to drive people to Steam, will they be dining on dicks as well?

Swing and a miss. Developers use Steamworks because it's the best thing out there right now.

 

[Deleted member 81567]

Why is this a big deal?

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

In fact if anything I bet this could catch paedophiles. Maybe Gust should use Origin for their future titles.

 

[Stallion Free]

As far as ethical business practices, if this is true, then yeah, that fucking sucks and I'd want DICE to leave, too.

I thought Dice was wholly owned by EA?

 

[Ark]

While i agree that there's not much they can do about it, the main DICE devs should get the fuck away from there asap if they care about anything. They're being held back from the opportunity to sell their game on the biggest digital download service there is.

DICE and Bioware are the only reason EA is still going, and Bioware is slowly going down the drain (imo anyway).

I love how EA has gone from being somewhat resurrected in their status last year, to ending up going to new lows this year. I actually find it kinda funny that Activision is just staying quiet, all the corporate flaming is going from EA to Activision, not back.

I thought Dice was wholly owned by EA?

I can't be bothered to look up the numbers, but I wouldn't be surprised if Activision has the cash to just flat out buy EA all together.

 

[Salsa]

Answer the question instead?

have you answered to any of my counter arguments in this thread? people are treating you like you treat people

 

[Anton Sugar]

It's pretty hilarious that you reply with this since my point was that you completely misunderstood my post and instead responded with something completely irrelevant.

Let me make it as simple as possible for you. A single positive outcome, which is indefinite and in no way guaranteed, does not outweigh a long list of negatives.



Swing and a miss. Developers use Steamworks because it's the best thing out there right now.

You damning DICE for this is just as ridiculous.

I thought Dice was wholly owned by EA?

If they are, makes even less sense to blame them for this.

 

[LowParry]

Why is this a big deal?

I'm trying to figure this out myself. Should I be enraged and throw kittens or just sit back and watch the show.

 

[kitch9]

Why is this a big deal?

It isn't, if you enjoy getting bent over and the highly controlling well lubed middle finger of shady companies like EA inserted in your ass.

 

[Menelaus]

I'm so happy Nostalgia~4ever posted in this thread. Now I know to kick him out of my squad should the situation ever arise. I will have no dirty EA knights in my army.

 

[Error Macro]

I've never heard of Steam deleting accounts? Did you have any games on your account?

Yeah, at least Half-Life 2 and Counter-Strike: Source, and I think Half-Life: Source (I bought the HL2 Collector's Edition)

 

[Qwomo]

Yeah, at least Half-Life 2 and Counter-Strike: Source, and I think Half-Life: Source (I bought the HL2 Collector's Edition)

If you contact their support then they will more than likely be able to restore your account.

 

[Nostalgia~4ever]

I thought Dice was wholly owned by EA?

Yes they are, and Dice wouldnt have the funding to create "major" games without a big publisher so i am pretty sure they're happy

 

[M3d10n]

Yeah, Steam grabs a list of installed programs but it doesn't plug itself into your browsers to sniff your browsing history.

That's a wee bit more invasive, specially because it dodges all in-browser anti-profiling protections (disabling 3rd party cookies, extensions to block Google and other' tracking cookies, etc) short of (maybe) using incognito/anonymous mode.

It would be, however, quite amusing if EA ever released the statistics on web sites and it's filled with porn sites. Or maybe they'll never release the stats if they turn out to be like that.

 

[echoshifting]

I don't think Valve sells any of that info to 3rd party ad/marketing weasels, either, but I'm too lazy to check and be sure.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Don't a lot of browser (Chrome, etc.) plugins, Facebook extensions, etc., also use your browsing history for data collection?

 

[Nostalgia~4ever]

I'm so happy Nostalgia~4ever posted in this thread. Now I know to kick him out of my squad should the situation ever arise. I will have no dirty EA knights in my army.

Haha

 

[ampere]

Nope.

Phew. I was getting worried

 

[obonicus]

Doesn't seem like a conflict to me, but these fucking agreements are so nebulous anyway you could go either way

Actually, you're right. I had originally read the Origin EULA as being much worse than it is, but there's no contradiction. They share third party content with service partners without the personally identifiable part, which is basically what the privacy policy says.

And I was going over the Valve privacy policy and saw that it's not drastically different from Valve's in this fashion:

By using Valve's online sites and products, users agree that Valve may collect aggregate information, individual information, and personally identifiable information, as defined below.
(...)
Valve will not share personally identifiable information with any third party unless the user agrees to such disclosure in advance. "Personally identifiable information" consists of a user's name, email address, physical address, or other data about the user that enables the recipient to personally identify the user. While Valve collects personally identifiable information on a voluntary basis, for certain products and online sites, Valve's collection of personally identifiable information may be a requirement for access to the product or site.
Personally identifiable information will be processed and stored by Valve in databases situated in the United States. Valve may allow third parties performing services under contract with Valve to access stored information but such access shall only be to the extent necessary to provide those services. In those instances, the third party will be bound by the terms of this privacy policy.

Yeah, Steam grabs a list of installed programs but it doesn't plug itself into your browsers to sniff your browsing history.

That's a wee bit more invasive, specially because it dodges all in-browser anti-profiling protections (disabling 3rd party cookies, extensions to block Google and other' tracking cookies, etc) short of (maybe) using incognito/anonymous mode.

Wait, do we have confirmation of Origin installing browser sniffers? I thought we were in the theoretical stage so far.

 

[DryvBy]

Oh, EA is trying to battle Activision in horrible consumer relations again!

cheese-and-pickles.jpg

(Sorry, popcorn is stale)

 

[JWong]

So origin is going to download itself onto my console with all its spyware glory? I should probably stop using my 360 web browser if that is the case. Sure it might be the same ToS and EULA, but not the same spyware.

So the thing is... who told you Origins has spyware?

 

[Error Macro]

If you contact their support then they will more than likely be able to restore your account.

I should probably get around to doing that one of these days... don't know how much they can do since there's some dude now using my username, though. I hate having to come up with a new name :\

 

[Winterblink]

And I was going over the Valve privacy policy and saw that it's not drastically different from Valve's in this fashion:

Biggest part of the Valve thing (for me at least) is the inclusion of the word "voluntary".

 

[Cipherr]

EA atleast isnt funding a port. Theyre providing dice the money to create the most technical advanded pc game so far.

Answer the question instead? What theyre developing for PC is driving new hardware.

Or you could discuss the topic of the thread you are in. But I'm guessing the absolute pounding your taking from Salsa with those pesky 'facts' and 'research' drained the fun out of that a page or so ago.


This is crazy to watch though, going back to the first thread about this, there were soldiers on both sides, but goddamn if EA isn't making it hard on their zealots to defend Origin, we learn something worse about it every week. The defense for this nonsense is hanging by a thread.

 

[MMaRsu]

Yeah, at least Half-Life 2 and Counter-Strike: Source, and I think Half-Life: Source (I bought the HL2 Collector's Edition)

You probably just forgot your password or something.. I didn't use my Steam account for like 2 years either yet they didnt cancel mine..

 

[Old Gimlet Eyes]

So the thing is... who told you Origins has spyware?

The OP. Am I understanding it wrong?

According to the EULA, EA says that by downloading Origin onto your PC that you are giving them the right to monitor your PC, make a profile of you which includes what programs you have installed, what websites you use and all that other good stuff the Spyware generally does

 

[obonicus]

Biggest part of the Valve thing (for me at least) is the inclusion of the word "voluntary".

Yeah, but they do note that voluntary inclusion of personal information may one day become required to access the site/product. Which is a much nicer way of saying 'if that happens, if you don't like it, don't use it'.

Edit: Just checked out blizzard's privacy policy, and it's kind of fascinating how sneaky folks can be:

Blizzard only collects personal information on a voluntary basis. If an on-line visitor submits information to Blizzard, it will usually take the form of either: (1) the purchase of goods or services though our on-line stores, (2) product or account registration, or registration for on-line game participation, (3) player match-up services, (4) message boards or forums, (5) eCards or Recruit-a-Friend e-mails, (6) warranty registrations, (7) contest registrations, (8) a consumer complaint, (9) surveys, (10) customer service or technical support, and/or (11) newsletters.

Note that buying a game is a way of voluntarily submitting personal information.

 

[Chinner]

Uninstalled Origin. Will not be buying Battlefield 3.

 

[Trojita]

I'm so glad I have zero reason to use it anyway. I only support Steam or the developers directly (Blizzard etc.),

World of Warcraft does this to.

 

[echoshifting]

World of Warcraft does this to.

No they don't. They don't access as much information as Origin is after and they don't distribute it to third parties. Unless it's changed recently. Last time I checked it was still voluntary, too.

 

[JWong]

The OP. Am I understanding it wrong?

Nope. That's EULA. And like I said, that's the EULA they use for consoles. So you allow them to put spyware on your console by agreeing to the EULA.

But, of course, they don't have spyware in their games, so what makes everyone think that they will do it on their PC games? Not like Google and Facebook aren't already doing the same thing.

 

[M3d10n]

Wait, do we have confirmation of Origin installing browser sniffers? I thought we were in the theoretical stage so far.

You don't need to install sniffers to do that. The history for all browsers are stored in files in standard locations in the HDD, which are very trivial to find and parse. The browser will never know about it.

 

[Chinner]

But, of course, they don't have spyware in their games, so what makes everyone think that they will do it on their PC games? Not like Google and Facebook aren't already doing the same thing.

that's not an argument by saying it already happens.

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

Answer the question instead? What theyre developing for PC is driving new hardware.

Good gravy, I don't think I've seen a human being miss the point of an argument more in my life.

 

[obonicus]

You don't need to install sniffers to do that. The history for all browsers are stored in files somewhere in the HDD, which are very trivial to find and parse. The browser will never know about it.

Well, okay, do we have confirmation of this happening? Again, I thought we were on the theory stage.

 

[DryvBy]

Nope. That's EULA. And like I said, that's the EULA they use for consoles. So you allow them to put spyware on your console by agreeing to the EULA.

But, of course, they don't have spyware in their games, so what makes everyone think that they will do it on their PC games? Not like Google and Facebook aren't already doing the same thing.

Seems like the best thing you could do is just make a fake allias for your VR Life. My new name is:

Roger Dodger
123 Fake Street
Middleamerica, USA 12345
(555) 555-1234

Social Security #
555-55-555Q

 

[Old Gimlet Eyes]

Nope. That's EULA. And like I said, that's the EULA they use for consoles. So you allow them to put spyware on your console by agreeing to the EULA.

But, of course, they don't have spyware in their games, so what makes everyone think that they will do it on their PC games? Not like Google and Facebook aren't already doing the same thing.

From what I understand, BF3 PC version requires Origin. Agreeing to Origins EULA gives EA the right to

According to the EULA, EA says that by downloading Origin onto your PC that you are giving them the right to monitor your PC, make a profile of you which includes what programs you have installed, what websites you use and all that other good stuff the Spyware generally does.

Now playing BF3 on consoles, you aren't agreeing to that Origin EULA, as Origin isn't required nor available to play BF3 on consoles. So you aren't getting that same Origin spyware as the PC users of BF3 are.

 

[Anton Sugar]

But, of course, they don't have spyware in their games, so what makes everyone think that they will do it on their PC games? Not like Google and Facebook aren't already doing the same thing.

Yeah, can someone explain to me how this is different from Google, Facebook, browser extensions, etc. having access to your browsing history? I am, literally, ignorant of the difference.

 

[Trojita]

No they don't. They don't access as much information as Origin is after and they don't distribute it to third parties. Unless it's changed recently. Last time I checked it was still voluntary, too.

From their terms of service, and from what I saw of the service running, it can check all of the current processes running on your PC. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe they could see what addresses you were going to on your web browser of choice.

 

[M3d10n]

Well, okay, do we have confirmation of this happening? Again, I thought we were on the theory stage.

I found the EULA and seems you are correct. The source of the source of the source of the source is a stupid forum poster that doesn't know what "Internet Protocol Address" means.

This is exactly the same as the Steam EULA.

Yeah, can someone explain to me how this is different from Google, Facebook, browser extensions, etc. having access to your browsing history? I am, literally, ignorant of the difference.

Because the examples you gave are far more limited. No browser allows remote sites to sniff their stored history.

Google and Facebook can track users via cookies if they visit sites which have them embedded the Like button, the Plus button and Google Ads. However those can be easily blocked/erased/anonymized. Firefox, by default, prevents the FB Like button from properly tracking users. People can also use multiple browsers to visit different websites and mess up tracking/profiling attempts. A program has much greater access and could track activity across multiple browsers.

The entire point is moot, however, because Origin doesn't seem to do this.

 

[Error Macro]

You probably just forgot your password or something.. I didn't use my Steam account for like 2 years either yet they didnt cancel mine..

well, I probably did forget my password, but this person is definitely not me: http://steamcommunity.com/id/ErrorMacro