Barry Burton
Member
Excellent to see Rime score well! I had some concerns but hopefully they're all unfounded.
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Edge #307 - Rime review, COD cover
- Thread starter Majora
- Start date
You're insisting the fiction in your head some how fits reality, then you say it worked out, so who cares if you spread more fake rumors about it. Maybe Sony just didn't want to deal with Indies anymore, hell they almost dropped demon souls,because Shu couldn't see the value in it; so even if they dropped it because they didn't like the games development direction, it doesn't make them some arbiter of good standards.
None of them had release dates, right? and especially indie games take a long time to make depending on the devs goals and team size. It doesn't have to be in development hell just because the game isn't out by an arbitrary date decided by your imagination of how long a development cycle is.
GinoFelino
Member
Your reaction has basically nothing to do with anything I actually said. But by all means, keep ranting about Sony while quoting me.
Again, calendars are a thing. Being playable in 2014 and not yet released in 2017, yes, I'm sure publishers must be thrilled with Wattam's performance. Must be my imagination.
The Hermit
Member
Did not expected that.
Another game to buy this year, goddamit
Another game to buy this year, goddamit
Cool, so you have no reading comprehension for what you even write.
Source for this? We have many others posting why this is being said, then you say
Again, source for your shit? And figuring out where to take something is a common saying for creators, it doesn't mean they're in trouble, it means they're allowing their work to guide them instead of forcing it. And if edge is to be believed, it paid off.
And then even more shitposting, thinking a small indie studio should be done with an apparently ambitious game in 3 years, when AAA games don't do that without having issues in some way.
Calendars exist, that's true. The rest is, indeed, your imagination.
GinoFelino
Member
Looked pretty factual to me.
Source for what? There were nasty rumours surrounding Rime, and I'm making it clear I wasn't referring to any of those.
It did pay off, and that's great! What 'shit' should I have a source for? The lengthy dev times on Edith and Wattam are hardly a secret. For Edith I'd say it was appropriate, though. It turned out great, too.
What's the shitpost? I said it was playable and appeared to be near completion in 2014. I didn't say it started development in 2014.
But seriously, I hardly know what we're even discussing here, and I'm done with the conversation if that's okay with you.
I think Rime might turn out way less divisive than TLG.
Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule
Member
I am not surprised at all with rime's 9, press love that kind of game, the hate here in gaf because it's no longer a exclusive is just that, gaf hate.
I get what you're saying, but I think you're off the mark here with this specific point. Generally speaking when you're several years into development, you should definitely know where you're going and have a pretty good idea about what you're building, both indies and AAA alike. But the general consensus from those in the know were that several years into development they still weren't quite sure where they were going. That much time and it goes from merely giving an artist creative freedom to a direction in disarray, production a mess (I'm sure we'll get the full story at a later date, these things have a way of leaking out in full over the span of time).
Say whatever we will about Sony's decision on RIME (and we'll likely find the real story out years down the line), but there is always a line between being a responsible business who gives ample help to those you're investing in and when you have to cut your losses. And that line is always going to be highly up for interpretation.
Sometimes good still comes out (and I'm so glad that seems to be the case here), but Sony even has a limit for their own studios. And they are known for being ridiculously generous with the slack they give their partners. Just to emphasize this point, they invested a shitload in Last Guardian, a niche product that was clearly in development hell for many years. But because Ueda had a track record as well as the so-called "Olympic Team", they let them keep going and going. In the case of RIME it was still years, but Tequila does not have the proven track record Ueda and his team does. So it doesn't surprise me Sony gave Tequila less slack.
Sony still invests in indies, promotes them, gets console first exclusives. If anything has changed recently, it's that I don't think they want to again get stuck with a "No Man's Sky" situation where despite giving Hello Games tons of freedom and treating their game like first party royalty, the game still got delayed frequently and still released in a very sloppy state. They took some of the heat for that, whether right or wrong. It was a major release and people associated it with Sony for how heavily they promoted it, so there was some backlash there.
In any event, I'm glad it seems that in the case of RIME it turned out good. A cool blend of Studio Ghibli and Team ICO? What could go wrong?
My PS4/PC is ready and waiting.
GAF is not a hivemind, in full or in part. So never a good way to make a point.
With that in mind, I don't even think your characterization is true. Look at the unveiling topics and GDC/Gamescom threads for RIME. The reception was overwhelmingly positive, despite the fact the developer had a questionable track record in terms of quality releases. They came out with an attractive art direction, an evocative concept and waved around the appropriate comparison buzz words. From all I can track, if there was indeed any "general consensus" at all, it was that RIME looked quite good when revealed. Despite the crying from the developer (which is always unfortunate, but being able to take criticism is a key quality in life), GAF was pretty high on the game.
What happened is that eventually substantive new details about the game dried up, we went on radio silence for a very long, extended period of time. And then Sony drops the game, and the only rumours we heard from a reputable source was that the game was in a problematic/messy state. In the absence of anything else to discuss, and with most of us being in this hobby long enough to realize what being dropped by a publisher the size of Sony actually means (almost always it means something is wrong with the game), do you really blame anyone for assuming the worst? Nobody was filling in the dead air with anything but what these dire facts painted as a narrative.
I for one am extremely glad it turned out great, because I love the concept and I love supporting indies. But this is a discussion forum and when bad things go down it is entirely appropriate to comment on that reality whether it is perceived as "mean" or not.
Well considering that the "reputable source" directly attacked people (the CEO in special) of the studio and in the end that was apparently bullshit, you have to wonder how reputable these sources really are and if a discussion around fake speculations are something that are actually worth it (these discussions being around a once exclusive game, which always brings the worst in gaming forums)
I agree that being able to take criticism is a key quality of life. Not the criticism that was thrown around during those discussions, though. Fuck that.
Game was announced in 2013, is coming out soon, that's not some Last Guardian style wait. This is a small indie team making a narrative game. And I disagree about knowing where you're going. You always know the general direction, but narratives are always better if you take that outline and toss it as soon as you realize what you're creating doesn't necessarily follow it. And source a reputable rumor that wasn't just GAF and the internet playing telephone. And no one said anything about being mean, but if all you have is suppositions cause a game was "supposed" to be completed because you think so, then you're doing nothing but harming the reputation of the game. Again, this isn't the only game Sony has or will drop and that should never be some firm confirmation the devs were fucking up, just look at how Human Head was treated. Like you say, it's a business.
TRUE ORDER
Member
Nice score for Rime.
Does MvCI have new info?
Does MvCI have new info?
mugurumakensei
Member
Even then, it's putting stock in lherre's source. Sometimes the source is wrong or lying.
Also this. NMS got released with Sony publishing. Edith Finch and RIME didn't. 1 was bad. 1 is definitely good. 1 is looking to be good going by Edge's score.
So at what point do we take someone's word over the other? Especially when one is only really known to mods. And those rumors still leave Sony in a bad light. Either the game was nothing and they created a world beater in a year, making Sony an even worse judge of developers quality, or more likely, Sony saw how good the game was looking and wanted the IP, and once turned down, dropped funding. Don't get why a standard practice of the industry is now hard to believe.
Happy to see Rime receiving a good first review. I always hoped it would turn out to be a great game in a genre that i love. Curious to see if other reviews will have a similar outcome. If so, it will be a day one purchase this friday.
Also, as someone who appreciated Sony for their focus on indies and smaller scale games the last couple of years, it's sad (and obvious) to see that they are scaling back on that front. Sony Santa Monica's "external" development team was one of the most interesting things happening at Sony with stellar games like Journey, Flower, Hohokum and EGTTR, on which the studio played various roles in development and publishing. It seems that era is definately coming to a close now.
Also, as someone who appreciated Sony for their focus on indies and smaller scale games the last couple of years, it's sad (and obvious) to see that they are scaling back on that front. Sony Santa Monica's "external" development team was one of the most interesting things happening at Sony with stellar games like Journey, Flower, Hohokum and EGTTR, on which the studio played various roles in development and publishing. It seems that era is definately coming to a close now.
Messofanego
Banned
Yeah, even assuming he was vetted, that doesn't speak to the accuracy of the information he divulged. A common misunderstanding is that a user with an inside scoop being cleared by a mod means the information was determined to be valid, but they have no way of ascertaining that. It's simply a confirmation that the user is (or was) in a position to be privy to the information they shared.
Is it because Mangod left? Shane plz come back
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Sounds like you and your team should be proud!
Sadly I won't be there day 1 as I'm waiting for the Switch version, hoping we'll get some news on that version not before too long
Can't blame people for thinking the rumors were accurate when there was no competing story from the developers out there. Regardless, I'm glad that the game seems to be great. I was super excited for it a couple years ago and have been regaining some of that excitement since the game resurfaced.
No release date, still slated for Summer/Q3 2017.
Weltall Zero
Member
I asked for proof about the "mock up" or "target render" trailer accusations three times in another thread about Rime.
Zero proof was provided. Can you do better?
The conceptual phase of the RIME design actually began during the development of Deadlight, in 2012.
The average life cycle for a game released in 2016 is approximately 3.5 to 4 years, including indies in that metric. We're used to hearing about the indies that people dedicate years to, like Fez and Owlboy that are remarkable achievements in their own right. But just as often people have a vision, execute it and release it in a reasonable time frame.
But I don't actually disagree with you that five or six years isn't too terrible, especially if the game is ambitious. The problem is if you're already in year four of your development and your development phase is still a mess and your goals are still all over the place (potentially), then a reasonable business would conclude that there is a good chance you won't bring the game out in a time frame that'll allow it to be both profitable and high quality. Now that prediction could be wrong, but after a certain point you do have to make decisions. There are assumptions one always has to make in business, and most of the time these probably end up being the right call. Sometimes, however, they read the tea leaves wrong.
Now obviously there are always exceptions, but there is a reason why most writers keep highly organized outlines and notes and why planning is a huge part of game development and why milestones are a thing. Yes sometimes you can work with a fluid development team who is all on the level and don't mind a bit of "on the fly" changes, but that is absolutely not the ideal and I don't know where you got the idea that the industry is filled with such developers.
Of course when you're developing a game as often happens you might find out a plot line doesn't work when you actually play through it as it did on paper or that a gameplay element is less fun than you imagined once implemented. And these sorts of changes happen during every development true.
But if you don't have your core in place well before the third year in development and you're still waffling about what direction to take, how the gameplay will work, how to even frame the story... yeah, that's a mess. And there's a good chance such a game is about to enter some troubled waters. Doesn't mean the game won't make it, but such a team likely caused themselves more problems than they otherwise would have had with decent planning and organization. A plan that you try to execute, modifying as you go.
GAF isn't a person, but the source of the information on RIME in this case was a reputable source. "Just GAF" is actually a loaded term, considering we have innumerable industry veterans here and if you know whose posts to read and whose account belongs to who, the information you're getting can be highly accurate. As an aside, I've seen cases where certain accounts belonged to industry vets and most GAFers had no idea and they hid surprises about E3 in coded language inside their posts. That's GAF for you
I was responding to Ahasverus with that part of my response
Congrats on the first great review, here's hoping for plenty more!
EDGE is usually a pretty good omen. It's rare when I see EDGE score something high that doesn't get at least a decent metacritic score.
Can you think of the last time that happened? I can think of games EDGE didn't like that got high metacritic scores, but not the other way around.
ForkNetwork
Banned
Wouldnt it be crazy if Rime actually gets higher reviews than TLG?
Yeah Edge is definitely one of those outlets that I pay attention regarding their review scores, those outlets are very few.
I wouldn't be surprised. And I don't want to downplay Rime or Last Guardian with this, but LG didn't really get exceptional reviews.
It's possible. I think I can hear Dariuas heart beating a little bit faster from the potential honor from here hehe