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[DoktorEvil]

.

She's participating in performance art. How else are people suppose to know her from the other crappy performance artists?

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

'What's going on in here??'
'It's art, mum!'

 

[jediyoshi]

Is this video supposed to work in a quantum manner?

It's not a recreation to demonstrate sexual assault and rape unless the viewer personally comes to the opinion that it is? Or it's a completely consensual reenactment of consensual sex unless the viewer believes that it's not?

Is it like Schrödinger's cat where it is both consensual and nonconsensual depending on the context it's viewed in?

Is society the box
and the video the cat?

If one were to come by this video without knowing the context of it would it be wrong to watch it guilt free?

I'll take Canada for 300.

 

[Riposte]

.

Says the girl who carried a mattress into her graduation.

 

[prwxv3]

That's something to consider in most rape cases, but Sulkowicz' behavior after the incident and the fact that the sex seems to have begun consensually means that this is not most rape cases.

I'm really not too fond of the whole "always believe survivors" idea. While the way our society handles rape and rape victims can be disgusting, treating victims as infallible and objective parties is a poor idea. I'm really not willing to let innocent people be convicted of rape because sex that they thought was consensual was perceived differently by the other person.

This. You can treat rape victims well and not believe their story 100% (until there is more investigation.).

 

[Tornado Condor]

I don't understand why gaf always has trouble understanding any forms of contemporary art.

Because this stupid shit isn't art

 

[perfectchaos007]

Because this stupid shit isn't art

It's actually the best art history has ever seen, but it's way ahead of its time, just like Vincent Van Gogh's art was.

-Counter argument

 

[John Kowalski]

I know there's some mixing but her characterizing it as primarily as performance art rather than as a protest, and knowing how it affected that guy's life, does not help her case in my eyes. It introduces other motives for her actions, like was this just art for art's sake or art to protest that how the U handled my allegations?

Oh, that's a genuine concern. My guess is she wanted it to affect both things, for it to be a genuine example of her artisanship (especially her being a student in need of creating and displaying her art) and for it to have real political impact. I have a friend who did something with the same intentions, though it wasn't quite as controversial as this. Unfortunately anything revolving her will be unavoidably inserted into the context of rape, and her specific experiences with it (which are also very public), and whether she should use this to her advantage or try to minutiously control how her art is read and seen... i don't know which would be harder to be honest. My guess is she's going with it and exponentially increasing the conversation around her subject.

That said, this is not the first nor the last time an artist will objectify herself or himself for his art, so it's not really something new or all that surprising. But it's still one hell of a tough conversation.

Because this stupid shit isn't art

Err, why not?

 

[MrPanda]

He was found not guilty and will not be punished under any justice system. The first amendment doesn't protect your feelings, it protects free expression. That's just the price of living in a free society.

Not enough. She should be in jail with her life destroyed.

 

[Tornado Condor]

Err, why not?

Because it's not. This is more of a cry for help. She got caught lying about her sexual assault and now she's trying to save face with this shit as well as the mattress stunt she was pulling.

 

[Cybit]

There is no evidentiary standard that has to be satisfied in order for a piece of evidence to get attached to a complaint. You do not even have to attach copies of documents or other evidence you reference in your complaint to the complaint. In fact, most complaints are filed without any sort of evidentiary attachments because there is rarely any benefit to doing so.

The fact that the messages are referenced in his complaint are in no way, shape or form an indication of their legitimacy, and I'm curious why you think they are.

My apologies, you're right, my fingers and brain were on two different points and I was being wrong about it. Explanation further below...

The suit was filed a bit ago - and I believe they've gotten to the point of having to show these messages (from FB or texts) and being introduced. On top of it, Emma also admitted the messages were accurate on Jezebel (as linked earlier) - so the idea that the messages might not have been true has been disproven in multiple ways - both by the sender herself, as well as the technological evidence. I imagine they knew that the complaint would be immediately thrust into the public sphere; and I figured they would add the attachments to strengthen the case in the court of public perception.

Basically - was trying to point out that those messages being sent by Emma to Paul was not in question. My bad.

 

[John Kowalski]

Because it's not. This is more of a cry for help. She got caught lying about her sexual assault and now she's trying to save face with this shit as well as the mattress stunt she was pulling.

That's your reasoning?

Bruv you best not mess with semantics.

 

[Tornado Condor]

That's your reasoning?

No shit. Am i saying otherwise? Why would this be art?

 

[John Kowalski]

No shit. Am i saying otherwise? Why would this be art?

Let's see, it's a performance, it's meant to communicate and create dialogue, it's designed to express the artist's feelings, it has form, it has content, it has authorial intent, it's inserted in an artistic context and created by a self entitled artist... i really don't see why her intentions matter on whether this is art or not.

 

[Tornado Condor]

Let's see, it's a performance, it's meant to communicate and create dialogue, it's designed to express the artist's feelings, it has form, it has content, it has authorial intent, it's inserted in an artistic context and created by a self entitled artist... i really don't see why her intentions matter on whether this is art or not.

If that's the case then just about anything can be called "art." I think i'm going to go masturbate in front of a church for "art" purposes.

 

[Corronchilejano]

If that's the case then just about anything can be called "art." I think i'm going to go masturbate in front of a church for "art" purposes.

You could, if there's purpose. Whether it's recognized as good or bad is up to your piece. In your case, I don't think people'll talk about it for long... and you'll spend a few days behind bars.

 

[Tornado Condor]

You could, if there's purpose. Whether it's recognized as good or bad is up to your piece. In your case, I don't think people'll talk about it for long... and you'll spend a few days behind bars.

You don't think people would talk about it for long? I don't know, man. I'm sure they would.

No shit.

Besides the obvious mediums art is much more about the application of context, form and meaning than anything else.

Yes, hence why this isn't art. Like i said, she's just trying to save face.

 

[John Kowalski]

If that's the case then just about anything can be called "art." I think i'm going to go masturbate in front of a church for "art" purposes.

No shit.

Besides the obvious mediums art is much more about the application of context, form and meaning than anything else.

 

[John Kowalski]

Lol ok.

 

[Tornado Condor]

Lol ok.

I said the same thing when i read the article. Pretty funny!

 

[Calamari41]

It's only art in the sense that literally anything and everything can be defined as art so long as the person responsible deems it so.

 

[block tower]

should've teamed up with brazzers or someone so she could of at least got paid for this art. main point tho, I don't get it, if she's mentally sound and is doing this for art cool but can't say it makes me feel any particular way other than meh .

 

[Riposte]

I wish this video didn't get muted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjaKtx_dN78

But I guess this is a halfway decent substitution:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVFasyCvEOg

 

[werks]

Does her testimony not count as evidence? And my understanding is that the best estimates for the prevalence of false accusations of rape put the number at 2-8%. Which would imply her accusation alone would fit the "preponderance of evidence" standard of >50%..

Lol

 

[NervousXtian]

After reading that whole lawsuit.. I fail to see how Columbia isn't in some way culpable for what happened to the accused.

They freaking endorsed her campaign and gave her course credit after finding him not guilty of any crime.

There's smart people at Columbia.. at some point someone should have said 'this is a bad idea' to the Mattress thing.

 

[Brakke]

Yes, hence why this isn't art. Like i said, she's just trying to save face.

This is a pretty boring conclusion. How do you know "face" is something that even motivates her? This is the laziest form of engagement. You just attached a comfortable narrative to a challenging work and rejected it. It's difficult to understand so you tried to find a way to understand it easily. But what evidence supports your conclusion?

 

[AzureRonin]

It's only art in the sense that literally anything and everything can be defined as art so long as the person responsible deems it so.

Therefore the discussion shouldn't be whether this is or isn't art. Instead the discussion should be whether this performance art is actually good. I don't think it is that effective really.

 

[Tornado Condor]

This is a pretty boring conclusion. How do you know "face" is something that even motivates her? This is the laziest form of engagement. You just attached a comfortable narrative to a challenging work and rejected it. It's difficult to understand so you tried to find a way to understand it easily. But what evidence supports your conclusion?

It doesn't take deep and critical thinking to see what this bozo is doing

 

[Calamari41]

Therefore the discussion shouldn't be whether this is or isn't art. Instead the discussion should be whether this performance art is actually good. I don't think it is that effective really.

Agreed

 

[Dude Abides]

After reading that whole lawsuit.. I fail to see how Columbia isn't in some way culpable for what happened to the accused.

They freaking endorsed her campaign and gave her course credit after finding him not guilty of any crime.

There's smart people at Columbia.. at some point someone should have said 'this is a bad idea' to the Mattress thing.

After reading a plaintiff's complaint you think the defendant is liable? Shocking!

 

[Calamari41]

After reading a plaintiff's complaint you think the defendant is liable? Shocking!

Would you have dared to make this snarky comment in a thread wherein Sulkowicz was the plaintiff accusing the guy of rape?

 

[Dude Abides]

Would you have dared to make this snarky comment in a thread wherein Sulkowicz was the plaintiff accusing the guy of rape?

Would you have dared to posit an asinine hypothetical in a country where doing so was a capital offense?

 

[Irresistable Thing]

Hasn't this girl already been called out for falsely accusing her supposed 'rapist', and going through elaborate schemes to make it seem like it really happened?

 

[Calamari41]

Would you have dared to posit an asinine hypothetical in a country where doing so was a capital offense?

I'll take that as a no.

People are allowed to side with the plaintiff in a case based on the evidence they put forward. If you have some kind of game changing piece of information that proves the guy you mocked to be wrong in siding with the plaintiff, post that instead of random snark.

 

[kaizoku]

Let's see, it's a performance, it's meant to communicate and create dialogue, it's designed to express the artist's feelings, it has form, it has content, it has authorial intent, it's inserted in an artistic context and created by a self entitled artist... i really don't see why her intentions matter on whether this is art or not.

not every creative endeavour is labelled "a work of art".

An art is an endeavour or field of some kind ie metalwork, medicine, karate or whatever.

A work of art is a piece of work in said field that is considered meaningful or relevant.

Art isn't just creative bullshit which has so called meanings. It's an exemplary piece of work in a given field.

Opinions on what's exemplary differ.

 

[Dude Abides]

I'll take that as a no.

People are allowed to side with the plaintiff in a case based on the evidence they put forward. If you have some kind of game changing piece of information that proves the guy you mocked to be wrong in siding with the plaintiff, post that instead of random snark.

A complaint is not evidence. It's silly to take one at face value. Sorry that went over your head.

 

[John Kowalski]

not every creative endeavour is labelled "a work of art".

An art is an endeavour or field of some kind ie metalwork, medicine, karate or whatever.

A work of art is a piece of work in said field that is considered meaningful or relevant.

Art isn't just creative bullshit which has so called meanings. It's an exemplary piece of work in a given field.

Opinions on what's exemplary differ.

So you're saying artistry is first and foremost a measure of execution and excellence? You'll forgive me for thinking that that's not a good definition, not at all.

 

[Outdoor Miner]

No one besides Paul and Emma will ever know what went down that day. Hard to take a side although those FB/text messages and now this "performance art" piece do her no favors.

What I do know is that if I were in college living on campus in this day and age, I would be terrified of putting my dick in anything.

 

[Calamari41]

A complaint is not evidence. It's silly to take one at face value. Sorry that went over your head.

He's taking the University to court. If he doesn't come up with the evidence for what he goes into in the complaint and it turns out he was making it up, well, that will be a hell of a thread.

 

[Transhuman]

It's actually the best art history has ever seen, but it's way ahead of its time, just like Vincent Van Gogh's art was.

-Counter argument

Vincent Van Gogh's art was art, Vincent Van Gogh cutting off his ear was not art.

Spoiler

Was pretty punk tho.

What I do know is that if I were in college living on campus in this day and age, I would be terrified of putting my dick in anything.

You need to learn sign language so your hand can give consent.

 

[Jenov]

At what point does art cross over into harassment?

 

[Dude Abides]

He's taking the University to court. If he doesn't come up with the evidence for what he goes into in the complaint and it turns out he was making it up, well, that will be a hell of a thread.

He's probably will never have to because Columbia will settle to avoid the bad PR. And whether there was actually a rape or not isn't even central to his case.

 

[DoktorEvil]

Because this stupid shit isn't art

Man, I don't know if you want delve down that slippery road.

If she's calling it art, that is her opinion.

 

[NervousXtian]

After reading a plaintiff's complaint you think the defendant is liable? Shocking!

A complaint is not evidence. It's silly to take one at face value. Sorry that went over your head.

Yes, I realize it's the plantiff's complaint.

Yet, if you read it, there is quite a bit to it. There's things missing as well, where are his texts back to her as example.

Yet, no of that matters really.. what matters is that Columbia cleared the guy, the police wouldn't prosecute and even then Columbia had a professor that ENDORSED her going forward with class credit on a project where she repeatedly said her rapist was still on campus and she went around telling people that it was this guy and that the University was aware of that fact.

That's pretty strong evidence that Columbia fucked up. He had the right to confidentiality as did she. She broke that, and Columbia never put a stop to it nor attempted to stop it. They in fact endorsed it at a times with her project.

Columbia's argument will be that they didn't endorse it, nor did they in fact leak his name, and that his case is against Emma not them. They could win on that, but unlike some other cases where a guy sued a college over similar things (false rape allegations), this school had a professor working with the one who filed the complaint on a project about the case.

Columbia might get off with that argument, but clearly they fucked up.

 

[D4Danger]

does "art" get around the tricky legal issue of calling someone a rapist?

 

[Dude Abides]

Yes, I realize it's the plantiff's complaint.

Yet, if you read it, there is quite a bit to it. There's things missing as well, where are his texts back to her as example.

Yet, no of that matters really.. what matters is that Columbia cleared the guy, the police wouldn't prosecute and even then Columbia had a professor that ENDORSED her going forward with class credit on a project where she repeatedly said her rapist was still on campus and she went around telling people that it was this guy and that the University was aware of that fact.

That's pretty strong evidence that Columbia fucked up. He had the right to confidentiality as did she. She broke that, and Columbia never put a stop to it nor attempted to stop it. They in fact endorsed it at a times with her project.

Columbia's argument will be that they didn't endorse it, nor did they in fact leak his name, and that his case is against Emma not them. They could win on that, but unlike some other cases where a guy sued a college over similar things (false rape allegations), this school had a professor working with the one who filed the complaint on a project about the case.

Columbia might get off with that argument, but clearly they fucked up.

You think Columbia should be in the business of interfering in academic activities by students and faculty? You think Title IX requires that here? Should they have fired the professor and expelled her?

 

[NervousXtian]

You think Columbia should be in the business of interfering in academic activities by students and faculty? You think Title IX requires that here? Should they have fired the professor and expelled her?

She was under order to remain confidential. She did not.. then she preceded to work with a professor on a project that she said at times referred to the plaintiff as the one who raped her, when it was found that he had not.

Yes, in this case Columbia should have intervened.. told her to stop as it broke the confidentiality of the complaint she had made. She directly violated that rule.

 

[EatChildren]

If that's the case then just about anything can be called "art." I think i'm going to go masturbate in front of a church for "art" purposes.

Art has no real definition so yes, any act of intentional creation could be considered art. The real debate lies in the artistic merit of individual pieces.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

So, uh, this girl's a fucking basket case. Whatever really happened, she's delusional if she thinks she's doing any good for herself or anyone else.

Edit: Also, she's simply dumb and clueless if she thinks she has made anything even remotely resembling good, cogent art.

 

[themidnightsun156]

Serious question: Is she mentally ill?

any person who accuses someone of raping them, then publicly shames that person, simply because that person did not reciprocate feelings of love is fucking crazy


https://youtu.be/WNGePpLajEs?t=31s