Dude Abides
Banned
She wasn't under any kind of order. Columbia isn't the government. Its confidentiality policy wasn't binding on anyone and it had no power to make her stop.
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Emma Sulkowicz's (Columbia mattress girl) New Art Project is a Sex Tape- Jezebel link
- Thread starter Tom_Cody
- Start date
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She wasn't under any kind of order. Columbia isn't the government. Its confidentiality policy wasn't binding on anyone and it had no power to make her stop.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
So you are saying that Columbia has no right to stop someone slandering someone on their campus who is a student.. because that's what you are saying.
golduck342
Member
Ok, well I watched the video...
I think it's meant to explicitly/specifically show the fine line between ok and not ok. The video shows a situation where a guy and girl end up in the bedroom where a consensual sexual encounter is about to occur. So after a bit there is some escalation where the sex gets rough, the guy hits her and she asks for more. He hits her again and then he grabs her in a way that she says it hurts. The situation escalates further and the guy gets more aggressive, and uses what seems to be excessive force to the point where the girl starts saying stop.
The guy doesn't stop when she says to, and I guess that is the part that speaks out about rape culture and other victims of rape. She gave content for most of the actions that took place, but there was a point where what the guy did was beyond her boundaries. She said stop and the guy didn't acknowledge he plea, because she was asking for more a moment before. I think that's the point where out society has the issue, the guy might say that he had consent, but the girl wants the guy to know that she might become not ok with certain things, and he shouldn't use physical force to do it anyway.
I think it's meant to explicitly/specifically show the fine line between ok and not ok. The video shows a situation where a guy and girl end up in the bedroom where a consensual sexual encounter is about to occur. So after a bit there is some escalation where the sex gets rough, the guy hits her and she asks for more. He hits her again and then he grabs her in a way that she says it hurts. The situation escalates further and the guy gets more aggressive, and uses what seems to be excessive force to the point where the girl starts saying stop.
The guy doesn't stop when she says to, and I guess that is the part that speaks out about rape culture and other victims of rape. She gave content for most of the actions that took place, but there was a point where what the guy did was beyond her boundaries. She said stop and the guy didn't acknowledge he plea, because she was asking for more a moment before. I think that's the point where out society has the issue, the guy might say that he had consent, but the girl wants the guy to know that she might become not ok with certain things, and he shouldn't use physical force to do it anyway.
Dude Abides
Banned
They had no power to make her stop. That is what I am saying, not what you've decided to imagine I am saying. They could have asked her but they could not have forced her. And telling students they couldn't, for example, go to the police when they think they've been a victim of a crime because that would breach confidentiality seems pretty unwise.
You know how you get someone to stop defaming you? You sue them and get a court to do it. You don't wait until everything is over and then sue a third party who couldn't have stopped it anyway. But you'd only do that If you're worried about your good name and not money.
Dr_Boris_Goltz
Banned
Did she take the video down?
IdreamofHIME
Member
Easier to carry around than a mattress, but I don't get it.
Isn't she (or the college?) being sued by the guy she accused? This won't help that.
Isn't she (or the college?) being sued by the guy she accused? This won't help that.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
They could have kicked her out of the school if she continued doing what she was doing. They can't stop her from going to police, but if they asked her not to talk about it.. and she went around telling everyone.. they could have kicked her out of school. Not just sat by as she did her Mattress stunt for school credit.
You act like they were powerless here, they were not.
Dude Abides
Banned
It's not even clear if the policy meant that she could not tell anyone she (thought she) was raped. A more reasonable interpretation is that she shouldn't discuss what happened in the administrative proceedings.
I certainly hope you're not arguing she should have been expelled for telling people she thought she was raped. She should be expelled for reporting an alleged crime to the police? She she be expelled if she told her parents? A boyfriend? That's absurd.
The truth of this case is independent of preceding and future cases. A case of a woman falsely accusing a man of rape should not be extrapolated to other alleged rape cases or skew perceptions towards prejudice in favor of the accused. Likewise, the statistical infrequency of false rape allegations does not mean the alleged survivor's testimony should be given prejudicial credence over the accused.
For real justice to ocurr, these cases must be looked at objectively and independently. I admit that internally I am sometimes guilty of skewing the balance of the weight of provenance towards the accused and giving the survivor's testimony preference, but it is important I keep any confirmation bias in check when I make open statements and accusations.
For real justice to ocurr, these cases must be looked at objectively and independently. I admit that internally I am sometimes guilty of skewing the balance of the weight of provenance towards the accused and giving the survivor's testimony preference, but it is important I keep any confirmation bias in check when I make open statements and accusations.
CarpeDeezNutz
Member
Pass
Femmeworth
Banned
I think I get the point but the execution really muddles things. The preface being on the pretentious side doesn't help.
The gist of it, to me, is that she gets to decide if it depicts rape. If you think it depicts rape then you just had her (fictionally) raped.
There's also the element of her not wanting to be reduced to simply being a victim. It works off the existing context around her and yet asks you to disregard (some of) it.
I think for this to work the intended audience need to be made more clear, for one. If a survivor of sexual assault watched this, they would be very compelled (for good reason) to read it as depicting rape. What good does it do to accuse them of
The gist of it, to me, is that she gets to decide if it depicts rape. If you think it depicts rape then you just had her (fictionally) raped.
There's also the element of her not wanting to be reduced to simply being a victim. It works off the existing context around her and yet asks you to disregard (some of) it.
I think for this to work the intended audience need to be made more clear, for one. If a survivor of sexual assault watched this, they would be very compelled (for good reason) to read it as depicting rape. What good does it do to accuse them of
? I mean what the fuck.
She accused a guy of rape and dragged his name through the mud and called it performance art - damaging real rape victims in the process...all just to gain notoriety in the fucked side of the art world...
Yup I would say that's craycray.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
I thought this would be locked. I feel that re-creating her rape with real sex is more damaging. Is she enjoying having sex in this? She's using sex as what? Wouldn't it hurt if she wasn't turned on and was doing this for a message? I don't understand the methodology nor the psychology of doing this.
They planned this, but as a male it scares me half to death.
They planned this, but as a male it scares me half to death.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
We can disagree then, I never said she couldn't talk to someone. Both of us know that's not what she did: She talked to reporters and made a class project out of it and took it to the internet.
perfectchaos007
Member
I haven't searched for the video, but once its uploaded to the internet, it's never taken down. So I'm pretty sure its still out there.
It's still up there it just loads like shit.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Calamari41
41 > 38
You think she's crazy... How about the guy who agreed to pretend to rape her on video?
I'd rather help Ted Bundy unload furniture from a van at midnight.
I'd rather help Ted Bundy unload furniture from a van at midnight.
It wasn't enough carrying the charade through the fucking graduation, she goes and makes this.
Mind boggling.
Even worse are people who aren't aware that everything was a lie and they are shitposting this video as "see here's the rape" already.
Dafuqqq
Beastdrowski
Banned
Well, now the version of the video that plays on the official site has the date blurred out. The pornHub version still has the August 2012 date.
Don't know if this was a deliberate fuck up or what...
This whole thing is so bizarre.
Oh, what the fuck. Did she upload that there or was it done by a "fan"?
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Sounds like a fuck up.
perfectchaos007
Member
given the content, porn sites are about the only venue for her "art" to be uploaded. Youtube took it down pretty quickly
Dude Abides
Banned
The confidentiality policy you think should have gotten her expelled doesn't say talking to reporters is bad but talking to other people is ok. And part of Nungesser's complaint is that she went to the cops. And of course her mattress thing didn't mention his name. Your theory that Columbia should inconsistently and incoherently enforce its confidentiality policy doesn't make much sense.
Sequence Six
Member
I think I missed something. When did the character witnesses go from "when there's smoke, there's fire" to "unreliable"? It feels like a couple weeks ago this was all much more divided.
rhophiehalul78
Member
I really could not appreciate "performance art".
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Columbia found them unreliable. One claims he tried to kiss her at a party, and the other said she felt compelled to sleep with him basically because she was his girlfriend.
I actually have started taking screen shots of text message conversations showing that a girl is into rough sex just to protect myself
Isn't her defense here that she changed her mind during the intercourse?
Edit : I mean, they even posted the Facebook conversation they had talking about rough sex, IIRC...
RockTurtle
Member
edit:
i'm not deriding you, just saying be careful who you are banging based on your tastes
Porn has been art for awhile. This is rape as art, which should offend anyone who was ever actually raped. It's a mockery, not a statement.
FloatingDivider
Member
Wat? You're joking right?
Also homegrown porn is art, I say this as an aficionado. I know I feel super artistic when I'm taking penis pictures to send out to chicks I dig Brett Favre style. I once posed & dressed my rod of plumbing slaying like a purple headed Santa Lizard going out through the snow storm of black and grey soapy pubic hair. It was glorious. This tape is appropriately named too, I'm sure Magritte loves the overwhelming effect his paintings have had on artwork naming.
DoktorEvil
Banned
There is nothing wrong with what he is doing, in fact all college guys should be doing this for their own protection.
Dictator93
Member
Yes.
With that in mind, I find this art cheap and uninteresting. It would perhaps be interesting with a completely different set up (i.e., who was involved) and context though.
That's what I was going for, just didn't add the 'rape' part in.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
It's still a rape scenario. Rape fantasy is what banned in the UK now? regardless if it wasn't the exact scenario. It showed events that occurred in a manner of what she said happened.
She got to destination C without going to ABC first. She went from A and jumped to C.
Who has time to explain this stuff? It's the context and how its presented. A lot of us don't watch explanations and neither do the feds. They watch for evidence that can say, ''this video isn't real''. They go down the rabbit hole to find the real problem.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
That's the thing, it is an exact scenario of what she claimed happened. From the hitting, to the choking, to the removal of the condom, to the forced anal. Combined with the time stamp, I'm having a hard time interpreting it any other way.
It's the porn version of "dramatization: may not have happened."
Tallshortman
Member
Uh he clearly meant he's doing it in case she or someone else claims that he was raping her, not that he doesn't know the line between rough sex and rape.
DoktorEvil
Banned
Women are hardly going out in droves to accuse men of false rape accusations and vice versa.
What should be confirmed is where the line of demarcation lies between consensual sex and rape and the University's role into sexual liason between 2 consenting adults.
Universities are botching these cases and are acting as a judge and jury to make these calls when they really have no place to judge the validity of sexual misconduct appropriately and without bias.
I understood that & My statement above stands.
I'm wondering if she uploaded the video for it then to be intentionally taken down. I haven't watched it but from the descriptions and her comments it seems that she is demonstrating consent.
If you watched it originally where it was first uploaded, and hadn't yet been removed you have consent to view the video but once it's ripped to other sites and removed from the original source you no longer have her consent anymore so it's wrong to watch the video. From a demonstrative and artistic standpoint this makes sense as it parallels somewhat in what is described in the video of it first being consensual and then the trigger event happens where it's not consensual anymore.
If you watched it originally where it was first uploaded, and hadn't yet been removed you have consent to view the video but once it's ripped to other sites and removed from the original source you no longer have her consent anymore so it's wrong to watch the video. From a demonstrative and artistic standpoint this makes sense as it parallels somewhat in what is described in the video of it first being consensual and then the trigger event happens where it's not consensual anymore.
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