Sickboy007
Member
That's my gut feeling.
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Euro 2012 |OT2| of Spain celebrating victory with younger, mixed gender squad
- Thread starter caramac
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That's my gut feeling.
nobody is arguing that spain can't play or that their tactic is bad. They are obvoiusly among the best if not the best side in the world right now. But the majority of their matches are boring to watch. That's not a statement about the quality of their play. There have been plenty of successful teams with very boring tactics. It's just that neutrals prefer to cheer for a team that plays spectacularly (or the underdog).
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Chile was doing very well against them until the red card. But they were a bit nasty there, so they can't complain about that.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Third place match in 2010 > Final, easily.
Third place matches are always fun to watch because the teams are already out of contention so it basically becomes an exhibition cascarita.
EDIT: Oh God, I just realised that England has Terry, Italy has Balotelli, Spain has Biscuits, and Portugal has Fake Ronaldo.
I need to find some unlikable team in the German team so that I can remain neutral for the rest of the tournament.Spain - Portugal will be an interesting match. Spain is surely the favorite but Portugal always brings it against Spain so I think they have a good chance of winning. Also depends highly on how Ronaldo turns up. He's on fire atm but Portugal has been a bit too reliant on him so all it takes is one bad match and that's it.
Patrick Bateman
Member
Just look at France's midfielders. Look at them wet-farting around. HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN.
What is the French guy on the far right at the moment of the cross doing? He's just strolling, while the Spanish player is 60 feet ahead and scores the goal..
You must not be in the US, the ESPN postgame coverage highlighted that play. That is Malouda who is just strolling along. He did the same thing on a previous goal (Sweden or Ukraine, I forget).
Patrick Bateman
Member
He wouldn't play one game under my regime if I would be the coach.
The only thing I hate more is when players stop running, just to raise their arm and claim that the opponent player is offside. Drives me mad.
intheinbetween
Member
oh god this thread, I can't understand all the hate towards Spain. I know Del Bosque is a cunt for benching the striker, because when Torres is on the field we use to have more chances to score, but this coach is a cunt for wanting to have the possesion of the midfield whatever it costs.
anyway, I knew playing against France would be much easier than against England, I had the feeling France wasn't in good shape and the don't have the skills to defend as Croatia did, or how the english would have done it, Chelsa style (a bus or a wall in their box all the match).
well, I think we have a good chance for winning this tournament for the second time in a row, can't wait until next wednesday
anyway, I knew playing against France would be much easier than against England, I had the feeling France wasn't in good shape and the don't have the skills to defend as Croatia did, or how the english would have done it, Chelsa style (a bus or a wall in their box all the match).
well, I think we have a good chance for winning this tournament for the second time in a row, can't wait until next wednesday
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Romanes Eunt Domus
Neutral people like goals. It's hard to like the Spanish team when they just don't score as many as their possession dominance would imply.
intheinbetween
Member
how many goals have scored the rest of the teams? I think Germany is the top scorer followed by Spain, am I wrong?
if Spain play so boring and disgusting, then I guess our rivals play even worse than us, they can't even steal the ball and score.. IIRC we have have received one goal (Italy).
Boring as that was, Spain didn't really have to do any more than they did. I disagree with playing without a striker. They may have been able to suffocate the midfield with tip-tapping but games are remember for excitement around the goalmouth. For all their possession, they only mustered a couple of shots on goal the entire game, and that was without France playing particularly well. I really think (hope) that Germany can get at them, as I think Spain's defence could be a bit suspect.
Still, looking forward to tonight, even though I think England only have a puncher's chance against Italy.
Still, looking forward to tonight, even though I think England only have a puncher's chance against Italy.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
The difference being that the rest of the teams don't monopolise the ball as much as Spain does and, generally, try to play with much more verticality, which results in either attempts at goal or the ball switching sides, giving the games a much more dynamic tempo.
Also not once have I said Spain is boring or disgusting. For one I think what they do is gracious in its complexity, if slightly disappointing when compared to their Barcelona counterparts.
intheinbetween
Member
and what should they do? should they just lend the ball to the rivals? imho the rivals should be the ones to be blamed at, it's their fault if they can't steal the ball and start playing properly.
Italy did a great job because they did that, they stole the ball several times and they had some nice chances, but the rest of the teams couldn't do that.
reading this thread makes me think you guys want Spain to win always 4-0, when all the teams we have faced put 8 men in their boxes, in that situation it's hard to score, with or without a striker.
sorry, I said that because of other fellow gaffers, not you in special.
I agree with you, Del Bosques is really cheap when it comes to strategy and tactics, he just copy pasted Barcelona's tactics and strategy, and with that strategy you don't need a striker (remember what happened to Ibrahimovic when he was playing for Barcelona).
I don't like Del Bosque at all, he is our worst national coach since Clemente and Iñaki Saez, Camacho or Aragones should be the ones coaching, but.. well.. you know Del Bosque is lucky he has those amazing players who back up his decisions.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
France would be even more fucked than Spain.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Most people watch sporting events for the spectacle. Spain is not delivering this and that's where the frustration comes from.
I think they should continue to do what they've been doing. It's a competition first and foremost, not a Harlem Globetrotters exhibition (even if it seems so at times).
Del Bosque's greatest accolade regarding managing the national team is not breaking up something which already worked, aka the Barcelona formula.
I strongly disagree about Barça not needing a striker though. They were absolutely clueless during the Chelsea semifinals because they lacked someone who could make runs inside the box to try and break up the iron wall defence. Spain looked guilty of the same sin during the match against Italy too.
You know what I don't understand?
A lot of casual fans like Spain and Barca because they play attractive football, or they are perceived to at least. Now that seems to be the way for a lot of people, and then the fans who follow the sport more herald it as a tactical master class. That's fine, I agree with that.
But when Chelsea pull off a tactical master class, equally as deserving of praise as Spain/Barca, they get slated for it. Despite scoring 3 goals on the counter attack (since when was that negative?), despite making the game a contest between irresistible attacking force and unmovable defensive object. Their game plan let Barca play how they wanted to play and said 'well adapt to these tactics' instead of just doing it the other way around. That to me is far more thrilling than what Spain do.
A lot of casual fans like Spain and Barca because they play attractive football, or they are perceived to at least. Now that seems to be the way for a lot of people, and then the fans who follow the sport more herald it as a tactical master class. That's fine, I agree with that.
But when Chelsea pull off a tactical master class, equally as deserving of praise as Spain/Barca, they get slated for it. Despite scoring 3 goals on the counter attack (since when was that negative?), despite making the game a contest between irresistible attacking force and unmovable defensive object. Their game plan let Barca play how they wanted to play and said 'well adapt to these tactics' instead of just doing it the other way around. That to me is far more thrilling than what Spain do.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Because John Terry won a trophy.
The perception I got was that Barcelona fans were the ones mad after that semi. Casual fans enjoyed the goals and the drama. Note that by "casual" I mean "neutral".
Why? They lose the ball every 3 seconds on average. XD
The_Hitcher89
Member
World Cup Final tomorrow, who would you rather play, Holland or England?
Haha
Oh I understand that the neutrals were satisfied with drama, but a lot still said 'wow negative football, so boring and defensive the way Chelsea play'. Just confuses me how one wins and is an incredible tactic and the other also wins but is negative football. Nullifying Messi over 180 minutes is not something many teams can do, and Chelsea deserved far more praise than they got in some quarters.
I'm not disagreeing with Spain's tactics, overall it's about winning and what they're doing works. So fair play to them. It's just the assumption that they play the best football that confuses me.
The_Hitcher89
Member
Fixed
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
The irony of your fix being that England is more likely to play "anti-football" than Italy.
The moment someone throws the term "negative football" I can no longer call them casual or neutral. They either know what they are talking about or are complete posers.
Boozeroony
Member
Barca has Messi, which makes it a ten-fold more exciting to watch than Spain.
Hmmmm the game should be exciting to watch though i have a feeling Woy and his team are going to play like Greece. I'm still disappointed Ukraine did not beat them
Phantast2k
Member
This is sport, not war of some sorts. Losing the ball does not equate to getting out of the trenches and get shot & killed.
What's disgusting to ppl. is how Spain is basically a bunch of fucking cowards_full stop_
For instance yesterday: the amount of times where they could easily & quickly counterattack and out-man/overwhelm the French, but instead decided to turn around and play it safe, was staggering. Or how they have an open shot at the goal from inside the box, but then rather just turn the fuck around and resume their handball tactics of playing around the box until they lose their possession to an individual mistake (which happened a lot yesterday).
It's just about as bad as passing the ball around in your half until the clock runs down, which was practiced back in the day when you could pass back to the keeper (before the back-pass rule).
That's why, to some (or most when they play as bad as vs. the France) Spain's style is worse than Chelsea's or England's reactive style, because the latter wait for their chances and then capitalize on them and that is far from being cowardly, it's just using the only tactic that can help them win (if you want to make a reference to war: it's partisan/guerrilla tactics.) At the same time counterattacks as well as disciplined defensive work can look just as good or even better (-> purposeful) that the cowardly tiki-taka bullshit.
And they get pressured and can already taste defeat they initiate cheating tactics of drawing fouls and then make those acting classes pay off to get the opponent players booked and/or commit dirty fouls (last seen vs. Croatia).
The last point is easily applicable to both, Barca and Spain because of the player-overlap.
This year is basically the year of reactive football. Barca and Bayern (they have the same, rotten possession play seed implanted by vGaal) fucked up internationally and domestically to teams that played reactive football. Too bad there is no nat. team that can play it well and has enough player quality for beautiful counterattacks (although England comes close with a fit Rooney, but mostly because of Gerrard). Italy can play that too.
And as to
They should fucking implode for all I care, I won't start liking them any time soon.
If the hate is too much for you, go offline..
What's disgusting to ppl. is how Spain is basically a bunch of fucking cowards_full stop_
For instance yesterday: the amount of times where they could easily & quickly counterattack and out-man/overwhelm the French, but instead decided to turn around and play it safe, was staggering. Or how they have an open shot at the goal from inside the box, but then rather just turn the fuck around and resume their handball tactics of playing around the box until they lose their possession to an individual mistake (which happened a lot yesterday).
It's just about as bad as passing the ball around in your half until the clock runs down, which was practiced back in the day when you could pass back to the keeper (before the back-pass rule).
That's why, to some (or most when they play as bad as vs. the France) Spain's style is worse than Chelsea's or England's reactive style, because the latter wait for their chances and then capitalize on them and that is far from being cowardly, it's just using the only tactic that can help them win (if you want to make a reference to war: it's partisan/guerrilla tactics.) At the same time counterattacks as well as disciplined defensive work can look just as good or even better (-> purposeful) that the cowardly tiki-taka bullshit.
And they get pressured and can already taste defeat they initiate cheating tactics of drawing fouls and then make those acting classes pay off to get the opponent players booked and/or commit dirty fouls (last seen vs. Croatia).
The last point is easily applicable to both, Barca and Spain because of the player-overlap.
This year is basically the year of reactive football. Barca and Bayern (they have the same, rotten possession play seed implanted by vGaal) fucked up internationally and domestically to teams that played reactive football. Too bad there is no nat. team that can play it well and has enough player quality for beautiful counterattacks (although England comes close with a fit Rooney, but mostly because of Gerrard). Italy can play that too.
And as to
What kind of insecure question is that?
They should fucking implode for all I care, I won't start liking them any time soon.
If the hate is too much for you, go offline..
Because Barcelona currently being objectively the best/most powerful/the whateverest team in the world, they attract a lot of 'fans'. These people will jump ship as soon as The Next Big Thing appears, just as everyone flocked from Real (who even if they weren't winning anything, had the biggest star power) to Barca several years ago, but for now this is their team and any transgression against Gods of Football makes their blood boil.
What Chelsea did is impressive, but the 'negative football' crowd were mostly Barca fans, of which there are TONS. At least for now. If it was the other way around everyone would applaud them for their tactics.
Among other things.
Barça != Spain
The spanish play style lacks the depth and speed of the Barça style. The Spain style consists in wear down his rivals with the continuous passing, Barça style does this, but also is much more direct and aggresive.
Yes, it drives me nuts that Del Bosque refuses to give Llorente a shot. Torres did not deserve to go to the Euro, and I am not sure why Soldado was not taken either.
Llorente would help open space for the midfield to run into plus it would give us someone that may be able to put a head on a cross instead of the army of midfield midgets
The_Hitcher89
Member
Counter-attacking football can be attacking football.
Watch these guys play..
Cavani, Suarez, Lavezzi and Forlan(?) in the same team. Disgusting.
Can't be as bad as last night.
Arjen
Member
Lets hope not.
3-2 for Italy, after a vicious, bloody match! 2-0 in first half, then England gets it shit together, ties, then Italy scores another in overtime and barely defends the score! Two red cards, one broken leg, one (saved) penalty, 4 heart attacks (2 coaches, 2 commentators)! Match of the century!
j/k, 1-0 for Italy in first 30 minutes, than boring passes and failed attempts for another 60.
j/k, 1-0 for Italy in first 30 minutes, than boring passes and failed attempts for another 60.
sneakypete
Member
Dat tattoo'd Rooney smile, my lawd
So, how about them anti-EURO 2012 topless protests, huh?
Link to dutch site (nsfw)
They are afraid that Euro 2012 will increase sex-tourism. Can anyone explain that to me, are football fans actively seeking out prostitutes or something?
Link to dutch site (nsfw)
They are afraid that Euro 2012 will increase sex-tourism. Can anyone explain that to me, are football fans actively seeking out prostitutes or something?
Yeah sex tourism is a problem...here in London we've had a massive influx of prostitutes due to the Olympics...lots of Romanian/Lithuanian women are being smuggled in and forced into the trade.
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