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[Eurogamer]Phil Spencer on new hardware, price drops, mid-gen refreshes - and why the company won't ditch Series S.

analog_future

Resident Crybaby
They probably believe that software sells hardware as the Switch has proven. The next gen refreshes didn't outsell the original machines. Now they have the first party line up sorted they will believe that will sell hardware.

As true current-gen games emerge, it's going to be hard to sell the 500GB Series S when games are taking up 100GB+ a piece, it's going to be hard to sell the $349 1TB Series S when the PS5 Digital goes for $50 more, and it's going to be hard to sell the $499 Series X when Sony is offering a more powerful competitor in that high-end console range.


Yes, games sell hardware and I think Microsoft finally has some exciting ones emerging, but hardware is important too. The Wii U is a great example of that.
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Just how bad are ms engineers not to see Ss would be unpowered and problematic , they just needed 4 gigs of extra ram, few more cu to hit 6tf.

There is not much they can do about it now, they need ride our this gen, the best they can and learn from this mistake for next gen.
I honestly dont get it.

It seems the specs of the Series S were to justify the specs of the XSX and vice versa.

One console - more TF than PS5. The ram situation is a lil more complex.
One console - less TF and less ram than the PS5.

I dont get it...

And this was supposed to be some amazing pincer move against Sony? So far its backfired in spectacular fashion.
 
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graywolf323

Member
Phil wanted the power crown and the cheapness/sales crown

He ended up getting neither and just pissing off devs
honestly I’m just gonna say it, I don’t know how people can say Phil is the best to ever lead Xbox at this point, honestly I’m not even sold that he’s been better than Mattrick

their first party started going downhill after Phil took over that back in ~2008 and the brand as a whole has been struggling since he took over in 2014

GamePass is nice and all but just look at how poorly they’ve done this gen compared to even last gen, he might have saved Xbox from being shut down by Nadella but what else has he actually achieved besides keeping the brand alive and Game Pass?

edit: obviously he’s great at PR but it helps that the press has a remarkably soft spot for Xbox being the American competitor in the video game hardware business, then you also have the legion of fanboys/astroturfers they’ve cultivated & the cult of personality that surrounds him so I’m sure I’ll get attacked here shortly
 
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Mr Moose

Member
They probably believe that software sells hardware as the Switch has proven. The next gen refreshes didn't outsell the original machines. Now they have the first party line up sorted they will believe that will sell hardware.
We love our Xbox consoles, we love our players there and the creators who are building on that platform. But you see - in almost everything we do - we do very little that's going to force you to buy our console in order to play the games that we built.
Doesn't sound like he's confident with that.
 
honestly I’m just gonna say it, I don’t know how people can say Phil is the best to ever lead Xbox at this point, honestly I’m not even sold that he’s been better than Mattrick

their first party started going downhill after Phil took over that back in ~2008 and the brand as a whole has been struggling since he took over in 2014

GamePass is nice and all but just look at how poorly they’ve done this gen compared to even last gen, he might have saved Xbox from being shut down by Nadella but what else has he actually achieved besides keeping the brand alive and Game Pass?

Yeah he’s a really poor leader. May be a nice guy to have a beer with, but a terrible Xbox president with a very weak strategic vision

the fact that his team required a nearly 100B bailout by acquiring so many studios is exemplary of his incompetence at his job.

Microsoft never needed those massive acquisitions if they simply continued the momentum and organic growth strategy they had in the early 360 era
 

Riky

$MSFT
Doesn't sound like he's confident with that.

Because they give you more options to play, nothing wrong with that. Console audiences are always limited massively compared to the amount of people that own a Smart TV, Phone or tablet.
That's what he means.
 

kaizenkko

Member
The problem is these "facts" are completely overagagerated, most games run quite easily on series S. Just because the odd game is harder doesn't mean every time is.
Well, Baldur's Gate 3, one of the best games of the year, is not releasing on Xbox this year because of Series S. The devs says that, and we already know that there's Xbox enginners helping port the game. That definily proves something, no?
 
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Zok310

Banned
Man Phil is like the dunce at the back of the classroom, like dude wake the fuck up, read the room. Get this guy the hell out of the business, he is done.
I hope R* drops a bomb and announce GTA6 for PC and PS5 only with a delayed launch for XB due to the S.
 
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Eotheod

Member
What do people seriously want though? For Microsoft to just drop the Series S and release a higher tier Series console above the X? That would be one of the stupidest ideas to ever be executed in the gaming industry, and would cause a significant amount of Xbox players to just leave knowing Microsoft likes to pull the rug out.

I think what Microsoft needs to do, is remove parity and just make the Series S what it actually is: a budget next-gen console that can play all games but won't have all features. You can excuse it due to the price tag, so people won't get upset that you don't get split screen or something, because the console is already cheaper. It removes the development issue of needing to keep on par, and instead of Series S being the lowest common denominator, it instead is put to the side as a "it will run well enough."

I just can't take this forum seriously sometimes, too many armchair enthusiasts getting the console wars confused with actual legitimate development structures and systems. Let alone attempting to conjecture a company like Microsoft or Sony into simplistic formats just to appease singular mindsets for a "win" in the wars. I swear some people here would suck at running a business if they actually went with their concepts or ideas. You seriously can not just drop shit for the sake of appeasing certain fanbases that are vocal, or the select few titles that have not been able to meet the parity requirements.

Do I agree with parity? No, I think in today's market development can meet certain requirements of running a game, but unless a certain feature is integral to the actual game mechanics then it can be optimised as best as possible or removed for delivery on consoles struggling. What I don't agree with is just dropping an entire console out of the gaming pool because its hard to exhaust resources. This is despite Xbone and PS4 getting split screen games perfectly fine, albeit obvious changes to engine structures that have caused bloat to development.
Man Phil is like the dunce at the back of the classroom, like dude wake the fuck up, read the room. Get this guy the hell out of the business, he is done.
I hope R* drops a bomb and announce GTA6 for PC and PS5 only with a delayed launch for XB due to the S.
Look at what R* did on the 360 and PS3 with GTAV, I really doubt they will be the ones to struggle. They have serious clout with graphical engineers that know their shit, of all the developers they are the least to be worried about when it comes to squeezing every last drop.
 
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What? The Cell was tough as hell to develop for...but it wasn't weak. That's why we got stuff like The Last of Us, Uncharted 2 and Killzone 2 during that gen
Devs can't perform miracles with a Series S.

Totally different situations.
They despise(d) both because both require extra work and a bit more than just good enough skill, and mostly also trust that the platform will grow in Cell's case, which it did, and the same now with S, since I would assume MS major growth potential lies ahead of us, starting just now with Starfield. It does not matter if one was relatively powerful, and heaven for the experimental coder, while a pain in the ass, and one is comparatively weak, but not really hard to develop for (maybe, not fundamentally harder as X, I guess). Both require "miracles" to make any game run on them, as do games in general. One because it is very different to usual systems and the other because you have to rethink/shrink your pipeline if you developed it for other system and were dumb enough to not plan it right away as a target platform.
Same way Cyberpunk did not run on last gen, because CD Project failed to actually do a proper port job and include it in engine planning. It looks good I guess, but so does Horizon which looks good on old and new plattforms.
The switch is weaker and devs don't bitch and moan all the time about it, because the platform is too huge to ignore. Smartphones while catching up are also not as powerful, flagship or average phones, and afaik some of the biggest (F2P) games got their ports for those too. It is just the hw they have to work with and once it's a target it just gets done, cause it has to, or they can chose not to.
Had devs their will cell would never have been that way, and it would have been a then more traditional PowerPC or even better already an x86 system, as close to a PC as possible.

As I said: something might have not gone ideal in the scalability, replace the better textures, set a lower resolution and be done with it is seemingly sometimes not enough, so it requires more work than initially planned, but nevertheless any dev and publisher worth a dime just has to either ignore it all together or work with what they got. Games have to scale down from 4090s too, which is a furhter jump already.
MS would be despised by those millions S owners if they ditched their S+X requirement just because of some overworked devs with narrow time constraints that want to get rid of the least sold platform. Any dillusions about them axing it, are insane.

Those devs whining would probably get no work done at all in N64 and Emotion engine days. Relying way too much on just x86 and maybe ARM and exploiting the vast feature sets only through the licensed engines and having no clue themselves anymore how to make things run properly.
 
The Series S makes zero sense because that becomes the base. If Bulders Gate 3 wasn't able to come out on the Series X because certain features were not possible on the S, namely split screen then very likely every exclusive on the Xbox platform is likely compromised. Look at Halo Infinite. That's probably why Microsoft isn't going to release a more power system like the rumoured PS5 Pro because it would be limited right out of the gate because of the Series S.
 
All this worrying about a mid gen refresh just blows my mind. We haven’t seen shit that even pushes the launch consoles yet, we’re just barely outside of cross gen territory.
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
All this worrying about a mid gen refresh just blows my mind. We haven’t seen shit that even pushes the launch consoles yet, we’re just barely outside of cross gen territory.
So in your honest opinion Elden Ring in RT mode does not push the PS5?

Oh Come On GIF
 

Audiophile

Gold Member
One main issue with the Series S is that it holds the industry back when it comes to the developer-side advantages of Ray Tracing. If it doesn't have the grunt -- or most likely; memory bandwidth -- to do RT in games then they have to create baked fallbacks for that platform. If devs wanna create an RT-only pipeline for say GI or Reflections; it would save them a lot of work. But in certain scenarios they now have to cater to the Series S and do that extra work anyway.
 
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SEGAvangelist

Gold Member
Yeah he’s a really poor leader. May be a nice guy to have a beer with, but a terrible Xbox president with a very weak strategic vision

the fact that his team required a nearly 100B bailout by acquiring so many studios is exemplary of his incompetence at his job.

Microsoft never needed those massive acquisitions if they simply continued the momentum and organic growth strategy they had in the early 360 era
Incredible turn around for 2013, backwards compatibility (pretty much forcing the competition to do the same going forward), huge acquisitions, Game Pass (plus first party games day one), huge indie push to the point where indies are competing for Game Pass windows, cloud push, crossplay push (this one is huge, IMO), games day one on Xbox + PC with cross saves and auto cloud saves, and I'm sure there are more. But yeah... no vision whatsoever. Maybe he should release a couple expensive VR headsets (one without BC) and not support them to get some credit.
 
What do people seriously want though? For Microsoft to just drop the Series S and release a higher tier Series console above the X? That would be one of the stupidest ideas to ever be executed in the gaming industry, and would cause a significant amount of Xbox players to just leave knowing Microsoft likes to pull the rug out.

Personally they can do what they want.

Just don't tell the media that you are not making a mid-gen console because it's hard for developers after:

- your first act as the leader of Xbox was to make a mid-gen console to regain the power lead (Xbox One X - 2017)
- In 2020 you launched 2 completely different console specs with one MUCH weaker than the other

Spencer is just trolling his own customers
 
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graywolf323

Member
Incredible turn around for 2013, backwards compatibility (pretty much forcing the competition to do the same going forward), huge acquisitions, Game Pass (plus first party games day one), huge indie push to the point where indies are competing for Game Pass windows, cloud push, crossplay push (this one is huge, IMO), games day one on Xbox + PC with cross saves and auto cloud saves, and I'm sure there are more. But yeah... no vision whatsoever. Maybe he should release a couple expensive VR headsets (one without BC) and not support them to get some credit.
this is such a disingenuous post that honestly it feels like your username should be updated to Philvangelist
 
Incredible turn around for 2013, backwards compatibility (pretty much forcing the competition to do the same going forward), huge acquisitions, Game Pass (plus first party games day one), huge indie push to the point where indies are competing for Game Pass windows, cloud push, crossplay push (this one is huge, IMO), games day one on Xbox + PC with cross saves and auto cloud saves, and I'm sure there are more. But yeah... no vision whatsoever. Maybe he should release a couple expensive VR headsets (one without BC) and not support them to get some credit.

A bunch of fluff

He couldn’t deliver games for over a decade, that’s what matters and why he “lost the worst generation to lose”
 

Gambit2483

Member
I wonder what the discussion would be if Rockstar came out and made a comment about Series S affecting GTAVI development. What would the conversation be then...🤔
 

Red5

Member
I don't see how MS can fix the Series S situation, cutting off support to millions of customers who bought one isn't exactly the smartest move, they can do a trade in program for a Series X which I'm sure MS can afford it.

But what I think is the Series S is selling on par the Serie X if not more due to low price and Gamepass that MS can't kill it. It's a low barrier entry to gamepass for a lot of regular video game players that don't really care about resolution or framerates.
 

Nonehxc

Member
Honest question, everyone.

Is there someone here from Xbox who has it out against their Evangelist Zealots?

Because the last few days we've been seeing a lot of clusterfucks regarding Xbox and a lot of threads laughing, and a lot of people working in overdrive to contain it.

So far we've lost Hendrick's and Retardutsu's alt.

C'mon, confess. 🤨

Who is the one who wants to give a heart attack to the shock troopers by overworking them and breaking their heart? 😢❤️
 

MikeM

Member
I never understood the logic of having a weaker box than last gen’s One X. That is the Series S’ problem. But the narrative that three boxes to dev for is harder than two is odd considering they already force devs to scale their games.
 
I just can't believe they aren't doing mid gen refreshes.

Once the PS5 Pro comes out and you've got the PS5 digital for $399 or less, Microsoft will have a really hard time moving Xbox hardware.


And maybe they don't care? Maybe they really do just primarily care about software sales and Game Pass subs and are content with that.


Just such an odd direction for MS right now. I'm having trouble understanding it.
Their latest earnings were among their highest ever. Whatever it is they are doing, it’s working for them. Mobile and subs seems to be their focus.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
So only buy the Pro versions of consoles from now on? Then why not just only make Pro versions, then?
How is that a response to what I said? You agree with him with Pro consoles, yet they did the very thing at launch. The S is their base console and unfortunately, the most in the wild.
 
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Hudo

Member
How is that a response to what I said? You agree with him with Pro consoles, yet they did the very thing at launch. The S is their base console and unfortunately, the most in the wild.
Probably because I don't get what you were trying to say? The S was obviously a mistake as well.
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
So only buy the Pro versions of consoles from now on? Then why not just only make Pro versions, then?
Launch a regular PS6 with a monster PS6 Pro for a very premium price that would actually last me the entire generation?

Give I Want One GIF


Actually would buy 4 day one
 

Hudo

Member
Launch a regular PS6 with a monster PS6 Pro for a very premium price that would actually last me the entire generation?

Give I Want One GIF


Actually would buy 4 day one
Then you have the problem with how to place the PS7. How much of an upgrade is it over the PS6 Pro when it has to be cheaper?
 
Incredible turn around for 2013, backwards compatibility (pretty much forcing the competition to do the same going forward), huge acquisitions, Game Pass (plus first party games day one), huge indie push to the point where indies are competing for Game Pass windows, cloud push, crossplay push (this one is huge, IMO), games day one on Xbox + PC with cross saves and auto cloud saves, and I'm sure there are more. But yeah... no vision whatsoever. Maybe he should release a couple expensive VR headsets (one without BC) and not support them to get some credit.

It's such an incredible turnaround that Xbox Series is selling less units than Xbox One with 2 consoles combined vs 1....

Spectacular achievement
 

Hudo

Member
We barely ever hear from Jim Ryan, how it should be. But MS wanted to create a cult of personality.
Yes because Sony realized after some time that Ryan doesn't have any PR training whatsoever, so he shouldn't speak in a public manner. Maybe Microsoft will realize it with Spencer as well at some point.
 

Zuzu

Member
Ok, no mid-gen upgrade? Then I’ll be buying multiplatform games as much as possible on my PS5 from now on so I have access to future Pro upgrades to them.

Also it seems to me that the Series S is a bigger problem facing developers than a mid-gen upgrade.
 
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