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[Megadragon15]

The RROD had little to do with the console being rushed, but rather the lead-free solder being used in the early manufacturing process. Why do people ignore that MS had a console before X360 that didn't fare as badly quality-wise? These are just cheap fanboy pot shots.

Maybe you forgot about this little problem: http://www.pcworld.com/article/119728/your_xbox_power_cord_can_be_a_fire_hazard.html and the "solution" http://www.engadget.com/2005/02/23/microsoft-taking-no-chances-with-replacement-xbox-power-cords/

 

[Deleted member 81567]

I can't wait for Kinect 2.

 

[demosthenes]

It makes no sense to launch such a big property with a new system. MS didn't even launch Halo 3 with the 360. They waited for the install base to catch up.

It would be counter productive to launch Halo 4 with the next Xbox. The launch install base wouldn't be nearly big enough to handle a Halo 4 release, as it would leave a lot consumers left out in the cold and frustrated.

Yea, the system is going to sell very well at the start regardless of what happens (assuming they don't launch @ $600). If the system launched Q1, I could see Halo hitting in time for Christmas though.

 

[BurntPork]

Your expectations are a bit too high, I think.

Not really. They'll probably use the upper midrange chip of Southern Islands, which will probably be on-par with 6970. (the 5770 is on par with the 4870, and the 6870 is close to the 5870) I guess 6950 is more realistic, though.

 

[gbovo]

I fully expect Sony to put a touch pad on the DS4's underside.

Exactly what I'm expecting as well.

 

[Vinci]

Quite a few industry heads have the been hinting at shift in focus next gen for a while now.... people expecting a huge leap in tech should brace themselves for disappointment.

Good lord, I hope so. Hell, I'd prefer if each of the three next-gen consoles was substantially different from the other two. I'm sick of this 'only real difference is exclusives' bullshit.

 

[FyreWulff]

It makes no sense to launch such a big property with a new system. MS didn't even launch Halo 3 with the 360. They waited for the install base to catch up.

It would be counter productive to launch Halo 4 with the next Xbox. The launch install base wouldn't be nearly big enough to handle a Halo 4 release, as it would leave a lot consumers left out in the cold and frustrated.

Yeah, they didn't hold Halo 2 back for the 360 even though the 360 came out just a year after Halo 2.

There's no need to rush a Halo for launch. People know it's coming. We all saw how well rushing Perfect Dark Zero out for 360 launch just so they could say they launched with a Rare game turned out.

 

[Elginer]

Yeah, they didn't hold Halo 2 back for the 360 even though the 360 came out just a year after Halo 2.

There's no need to rush a Halo for launch. People know it's coming. We all saw how well rushing Perfect Dark Zero out for 360 launch just so they could say they launched with a Rare game turned out.

Exactly. Let the golden goose make some money on a bigger install base. Folks know that a new Halo will come eventually and hopefully a new Gears...

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

I still believe MS will push the Xbox 360 hard as a Kinect box when the next Xbox launches. It would almost just be like a lesser SKU built for playing Kinect stuff and XBLA.

I totally agree with that, more than likely the 360 will continue it's life as Microsoft's cheap casual gaming box...and since the Wii-U is so similar, I could see developers giving it downgraded Wii-U non-exclusive ports to help bolster their game sales.

Given how new (and expensive) Kinect is, I'm thinking it's possibly we won't get a Kinect 2.0 for the next Xbox for awhile. It let's them refresh the brand and continue to keep prices high while the next Xbox's component cost come down. It also wouldn't surprise me if they could squeeze a bit more life out of the original Kinect via the horsepower of the new console.

 

[matmanx1]

I'd be ok with 2013. I have more than enough current gen console titles, PC games and handheld goodies to keep me occupied until then. If Vita turns out to be as awesome as it seems and the 3DS continues to ramp up with it's software support then I may be putting much more of my gaming time onto handhelds next year anyway.

 

[walking fiend]

What position?

That Wii U will be in a Wii like position.

it will seemingly be a repeat of 360/PS3 vs Wii all over again

Let's go back and look at Deadly Cyclone's original post:

yeap, lets go:

His thesis is that the Xbox 720 and PlayStation 4 will have better graphics than the Wii U, and thus Nintendo won't be able to use "Better Graphics" as a selling point.

Did anyone really expect this?

He then says that Nintendo will have to sell their console on the strength of the controller, which given Nintendo's E3 press conference and investor meetings, seems to be their intention anyway.

it's a fallacy. Not being able to sell based on their graphics DOES NOT EQUAL to being forced to sell based on their controller. This is where he starts getting it all wrong.

He then speculates that the tablet controller will not be as compelling as the Wii remote. Obviously we haven't seen how that's played out yet, but the power of the console is rather irrelevant to that prediction.

Yes, I somewhat agree with his speculation. Kinect is quite competent.

But Wii had many other advantages over other consoles as well, namely: 1. Being a lot cheaper 2. First party support. I can't see any reason for any of these two changing.

----
however, lets go back to what you said yourself:

I don't think anyone here was arguing that the Wii U wouldn't run Xbox 720/PlayStation 4 games.

That's what he get's wrong. For Wii U to be in the same position as Wii, it shouldn't get multiplats. Since it can run the engines easily, although at a lower graphics, it will get multoplats.

Then it won't be in the same position as Wii. It will have multiplats, even if at a lower graphics. Wii couldn't run multiplat games whatsoever, and it was not just because

And more importantly, the only reason Wii didn't get multiplats wasn't graphics. It's online was a mess and the OS was a mess and every game needed to adapt to its standard non-standard controller.

So beside its previous advantage, minus a seemingly not as much revolutionary controller, it will get multiplats as well and seemingly will have a much better online capabilities.
----


since we agree on what I believe is the most crucial difference between Wii and Wii U. I thought this wasn't really that important, but anyhow:

Believe it or not, graphics cards are actually surprisingly affordable three years after they release, especially when you order in multi-million unit bulk.

We have 2 years since 2013, not 3;and 580GTX on average is more than $450 at the moment. Currently, the cheapest equivalent of the one to the top Radeon card from 2009 (5850) is 6870 which is ~$200. I believe in 2013 the cheapest equivalent of 580 GTX will be at around the same price. While currently, a 5770 on average is around 130$.

Sure bulk production will decrease the cost, but Nintendo will do the same with Wii U, you should compare the affordability compared to Wii U.

 

[Abooie]

Maybe you forgot about this little problem: http://www.pcworld.com/article/119728/your_xbox_power_cord_can_be_a_fire_hazard.html and the "solution" http://www.engadget.com/2005/02/23/microsoft-taking-no-chances-with-replacement-xbox-power-cords/

From that article "Fewer than 1 in 10,000 consoles have experienced these component failures, and in most instances the damage caused was contained within the console itself or limited to the tip of the power cord at the back of the console, Microsoft said in the statement. "

The original Xbox was a brickhouse and the 360s seems remarkably stable (as does the PS3 slim.)

You sound like you've got an agenda bringing something up that's so tenuous and yet have no room to criticise PS3 phats of which I don't know of anyones that is still up and running or the PS2 laser debacle.

 

[Orayn]

Good lord, I hope so. Hell, I'd prefer if each of the three next-gen consoles was substantially different from the other two. I'm sick of this 'only real difference is exclusives' bullshit.

Exactly. Part of what makes a good platform is doing stuff the other guy can't. "The same, but more" is neither sustainable nor good for the industry. Personally, I'm hoping at least one of the platforms has a powerful, accessible framework for indie developers. I mean, who wouldn't want to have the next Minecraft or Terraria on their system and make some money on each copy sold?

 

[GuiltySpank]

Maybe you forgot about this little problem: http://www.pcworld.com/article/119728/your_xbox_power_cord_can_be_a_fire_hazard.html and the "solution" http://www.engadget.com/2005/02/23/microsoft-taking-no-chances-with-replacement-xbox-power-cords/

Oh yeah, I did forget because it wasn't that big of a deal. How many houses burned down due to Xbox power cords.

If I was fanboy frothing at the mouth and just wanted to troll because I thought this was a good opportunity I would say that based on people having to flip their PSX's upside down, PS2 DRE and the massive PSN hack that people should hold off from buying PS4. But that would be stupid because rarely does the next generation of product fare similar to the previous one. Who would have thought that X360 would probably reach 75 million units when it's all said and done.

So the "reliability" trolls are just that, trolls.

 

[JWong]

Maybe don't say Devs and say UE3 and Crytek.

The rest of the devs certainly don't speculate and make games based on speculation. Incredibly risky to do so.

 

[dragonelite]

A new MS console with Halo 4 as a launch title would be pretty attractive to a lot of gamers.

A new console with improved backward compatibility would make it win for me.
Playing gears 3 or forza 4 in 1080p should be awesome.

Because microsoft owns directX they probably will go for a more custom made gpu then one of the shelf. And i really hope microsoft caters to crytek and epics wishes.
Didn't epic convinced microsoft to double the ram by showing what gears would look like with 256 and 512mb of ram. Hope crytek can show what they can do with 8 gig of ram.

Hell i can get 8 gig of ddr3 1600Mhz ram(Corsair Vengeance) for around 66 euro from retailers i imaging by then microsoft could get that for 30 or so probably cheaper too.

Then they need to make it XNA compatible so the indie scene has some more power.

 

[Vinci]

Exactly. Part of what makes a good platform is doing stuff the other guy can't. "The same, but more" is neither sustainable nor good for the industry. Personally, I'm hoping at least one of the platforms has a powerful, accessible framework for indie developers. I mean, who wouldn't want to have the next Minecraft or Terraria on their system and make some money on each copy sold?

Good lord, I've love that. I don't know - maybe Nintendo's crazy 'Wild West' online concept might help foster something like that, but the company has neither the online experience to make such a choice obvious, nor any apparent interest in 'garage developers.'

But yeah, it's kind of exciting. Nice to have potentially three distinct options.

 

[StevieP]

A new console with improved backward compatibility would make it win for me.
Playing gears 3 or forza 4 in 1080p should be awesome.

Because microsoft owns directX they probably will go for a more custom made gpu then one of the shelf. And i really hope microsoft caters to crytek and epics wishes.
Didn't epic convinced microsoft to double the ram by showing what gears would look like with 256 and 512mb of ram. Hope crytek can show what they can do with 8 gig of ram.

Hell i can get 8 gig of ddr3 1600Mhz ram(Corsair Vengeance) for around 66 euro from retailers i imaging by then microsoft could get that for 30 or so probably cheaper too.

Then they need to make it XNA compatible so the indie scene has some more power.

God it's like you choose not to read the amount of times people tell you that the cheap DDR3 you get at your local neighbourhood PC parts shop is NOT THE SAME RAM THAT'S IN CONSOLES. They tend to use much faster and lower latency (read: expensive) ram. You'll be lucky to get a shared pool of 2 gigs of XDR or GDDR5 in a 2013 console.

 

[Infamous Chris]

From that article "Fewer than 1 in 10,000 consoles have experienced these component failures, and in most instances the damage caused was contained within the console itself or limited to the tip of the power cord at the back of the console, Microsoft said in the statement. "

The original Xbox was a brickhouse and the 360s seems remarkably stable (as does the PS3 slim.)

You sound like you've got an agenda bringing something up that's so tenuous and yet have no room to criticise PS3 phats of which I don't know of anyones that is still up and running or the PS2 laser debacle.

Oh yeah, I did forget because it wasn't that big of a deal. How many houses burned down due to Xbox power cords.

If I was fanboy frothing at the mouth and just wanted to troll because I thought this was a good opportunity I would say that based on people having to flip their PSX's upside down, PS2 DRE and the massive PSN hack that people should hold off from buying PS4. But that would be stupid because rarely does the next generation of product fare similar to the previous one. Who would have thought that X360 would probably reach 75 million units when it's all said and done.

So the "reliability" trolls are just that, trolls.

Period.

Sad to see obviously bias trolls attempt to play the RROD card so much. It's obvious that Microsoft won't make such a huge mistake a second time; they're not a Fortune 500 company for no reason.

 

[KageMaru]

Love this time of the generation, when rumors and speculation run wild of the next round of consoles.

A new MS console with Halo 4 as a launch title would be pretty attractive to a lot of gamers.

Actually IMO this wouldn't be a good idea. The 720/PS4 is likely to sell out at launch, and a good while after, with or without a Halo 4 or UC4 in the line up. Better to ride on the launch hype and sell consoles that way, then release your AAA killer app titles later in the system's life to breathe life or bump sales.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

What Rein is trying to tell everyone is "don't expect things to look like our multi-card demo with this upcoming generation of consoles" - and it is true in multiple fashions.


Your expectations are a bit too high, I think.

Once again, in context, Rein said:

"It is already possible on PCs today albeit very high end ones," he tells Eurogamer. "Broadly-speaking tomorrow's console is today's high end PC, whose level of technology eventually trickles down to affordable PCs, set-top boxes and mobile devices as well. So it makes sense that this is the kind of thing the next generation of consoles could power. It is just a question of timing."

"As a content developer we'll get better at exploiting these features over time and, as a technology provider, we'll continue to deliver tools and technology that helps our licensees to do the same. In the mean time we've already shipped Samaritan's DX11 feature set in the latest Unreal Engine 3."

And then Crytek said:

"Where the PCs are now compared to what [Sony and Microsoft] are going to do, I assume will be close," Hall says.

"One of our rendering guys was looking at that article and was saying he reckons that's doable now with DX11 on PC," Hall enthuses, "I get the feeling it could happen. It could be next-gen consoles. It does feel like if we're able to keep pushing DirectX 11 into the next generation of consoles we should be able to produce some fantastic stuff with CryEngine."

When Rein says "right now", he means right now in 2011. When you're talking about AMD videocards that benchmark near the GTX 580 in terms of real world performance on high settings (1080p, 4xMSAA, 16xAF), the Radeon HD 6950 is only slightly less capable at nearly 60% of the price.

In 2 to 3 years I could see that kind of technology being reasonably affordable in a $399 console, especially if production doesn't begin until mid 2013. Whether they can get the power consumption in an acceptable range is another question entirely.

 

[Vinci]

Sad to see obviously bias trolls attempt to play the RROD card so much. It's obvious that Microsoft won't make such a huge mistake a second time; they're not a Fortune 500 company for no reason.

Hmm. I wouldn't go too deeply into debate regarding how MS became a Fortune 500 company. You're likely to get a huge number of views that don't fit in with this, 'They don't repeat mistakes' riff you got going on.

 

[Theonik]

How long till we have devkit leaks?

 

[eso76]

Sounds exactly like the PS3 and considering how that worked out I'd say the chances are slim to none that a mistake like that is made again.

No, it doesn't, because PS3 games didn't (don't) look significantly better than X360's. PS3 was more expensive for several reasons (r&d, bluray, wifi etc) that didn't directly influence the way games looked.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

It makes no sense to launch such a big property with a new system. MS didn't even launch Halo 3 with the 360. They waited for the install base to catch up.

It would be counter productive to launch Halo 4 with the next Xbox. The launch install base wouldn't be nearly big enough to handle a Halo 4 release, as it would leave a lot consumers left out in the cold and frustrated.

Mario 64 launched with the system and the userbase numbers didn't hurt the sales of that.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Mario 64 launched with the system and the userbase numbers didn't hurt the sales of that.

It was also one of maybe half a dozen games for nearly 9 months after launch.

 

[madmaxx350]

Mario 64 launched with the system and the userbase numbers didn't hurt the sales of that.

can you even put Mario in the same category as Halo?

 

[Easy_D]

can you even put Mario in the same category as Halo?

I'd personally say Halo defined the Xbox as much as Mario defined Nintendo consoles.

 

[szaromir]

I'd personally say Halo defined the Xbox as much as Mario defined Nintendo consoles.

At the same Halo has much harsher competition in its genre.

 

[bigtroyjon]

Mario 64 launched with the system and the userbase numbers didn't hurt the sales of that.

Halo games don't have anywhere close to the legs that Mario(or nintendo in general) games do. A year after halo comes out the dedicated fanbase will have already bought the game and everyone else will be buying the next shooter du jour.

 

[beast786]

I imagine Guerrilla's new IP will also make it out this generation while Killzone 4 gets made for the PlayStation 4.

I think God of War 4 has more of a shot than GG new IP. God of War is the biggest SCEA franchise as per sales. And the last one was close to 2 years and no info on what SSM are doing.

They already made a mistake once by launching God Of War 2 on PS2 and not on PS3. I doubt they will repeat the same mistake.

 

[szaromir]

Halo games don't have anywhere close to the legs that Mario(or nintendo in general) games do. A year after halo comes out the dedicated fanbase will have already bought the game and everyone else will be buying the next shooter du jour.

It appears Halo has stronger legs than Galaxy games though. I don't have enough data to fully support this claim, just loose observations on very scarce numbers.

 

[outunderthestars]

If I recall, didn't the Halo 4 teaser lack any xbox 360 logo or branding, having only "xbox" on it.......

As I have said since E3, It is a launch title for Spring 2013. It would serve to once again establish MS's console as the home for FPS games, while stealing the spotlights from the WiiU.

 

[snoopeasystreet]

Rare didn't announce anything at e3 this year... hmm

 

[knitoe]

Halo isn't as important anymore. COD next gen launching on X720 would be better.

 

[KageMaru]

Anyone else think it would be a mistake for MS or Sony to announce/reveal their next systems at E3 2012?

If anything, I think it would be a better idea to maybe just tease something regarding what's around the corner, similar to what MS did with the XNA crash demo without ever really associating it to the 360 directly.

This way the impact of the initial reveal wouldn't lose steam while gamers are waiting ~18 months for the thing to release.

 

[Marleyman]

Halo games don't have anywhere close to the legs that Mario(or nintendo in general) games do. A year after halo comes out the dedicated fanbase will have already bought the game and everyone else will be buying the next shooter du jour.

Halo doesn't have legs? How do you explain the online community?

 

[outunderthestars]

Halo isn't as important anymore. COD next gen launching on X720 would be better.

I don't know how Activision will handle the transition. I can't see them investing too much in developing the next gen version when the established consoles would still be such a fruitful platform for them.....

Anyone else think it would be a mistake for MS or Sony to announce/reveal their next systems at E3 2012?

This way the impact of the initial reveal wouldn't lose steam while gamers are waiting ~18 months for the thing to release.

You assume that it would come out 18 months after.... I'd say 9 months after...

 

[BurntPork]

Halo isn't as important anymore. COD next gen launching on X720 would be better.

But that'll come out on every console, and they graphics probably won't be improved beyond a resolution bump anyway.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

If I recall, didn't the Halo 4 teaser lack any xbox 360 logo or branding, having only "xbox" on it.......

As I have said since E3, It is a launch title for Spring 2013. It would serve to once again establish MS's console as the home for FPS games, while stealing the spotlights from the WiiU.

The trailer on LIVE has the 360 logo at the end. Spring launch means no CoD (and no Madden or FIFA or PES), MS isn't that desperate to jumpstart next gen. It would be DOA in Europe.

 

[knitoe]

Anyone else think it would be a mistake for MS or Sony to announce/reveal their next systems at E3 2012?

If anything, I think it would be a better idea to maybe just tease something regarding what's around the corner, similar to what MS did with the XNA crash demo without ever really associating it to the 360 directly.

This way the impact of the initial reveal wouldn't lose steam while gamers are waiting ~18 months for the thing to release.

Microsoft and/or Sony will probably release tidbits of info and teasers to get people thinking twice about getting a WiiU.

 

[Mrbob]

Mario 64 launched with the system and the userbase numbers didn't hurt the sales of that.

Mario 64 defined an entirely new era of 3D gaming. Not really a similar comparison.

 

[DaSorcerer7]

Microsoft and/or Sony will probably release tidbits of info and teasers to get people thinking twice about getting a WiiU.

Yeah, good to know that nintendo is just going to sit back and let it happen.

 

[bigtroyjon]

It appears Halo has stronger legs than Galaxy games though. I don't have enough data to fully support this claim, just loose observations on very scarce numbers.

Wasn't talking about Galaxy, Mario Kart was the game for Nintendo this gen. New owners kept buying it and it stayed in the charts month after month. New xbox owners aren't buying Halo or else we would have seen it pop up in the charts during some of the recent months of high hardware and low software sales.

 

[BurntPork]

Microsoft and/or Sony will probably release tidbits of info and teasers to get people thinking twice about getting a WiiU.

They'll want to upstage Wii U, but I'm sure they realize that there's not much they can do to stop earlier adopters. Wii U will be out more than a year before them, giving more than enough time for people to save up for the PS4/XB3, and the early adopters are Nintendo fans who aren't going to care that the other consoles have better graphics. They'll only bother showing enough to prevent Nintendo from overshadowing them completely.

 

[knitoe]

I don't know how Activision will handle the transition. I can't see them investing too much in developing the next gen version when the established consoles would still be such a fruitful platform for them.....



You assume that it would come out 18 months after.... I'd say 9 months after...

But that'll come out on every console, and they graphics probably won't be improved beyond a resolution bump anyway.

Battlefield 3 is already pushing pass X360 / PS3 can do. Sure, the engine will be upgraded even more for X720 / PS4. Surely, Activision will not want to give EA a head start. Thus, COD game for X720 / PS4 will be big graphic leap. WiiU could be left behind again.

 

[MDX]

And no way am I jumping onto the next-gen until it's at least 1 year in. I'll skip the crap launch software.

Thats the problem Sony and Microsoft will be facing launching in 2013.
Depending on their launch price.
How many PS360 owners are ready to move on to a new console.
I think its a lot less than Wii owners.

 

[StevieP]

Battlefield 3 is already pushing pass X360 / PS3 can do. Sure, the engine will be upgraded even more for X720 / PS4. Surely, Activision will not want to give EA a head start. Thus, COD game for X720 / PS4 will be big graphic leap. WiiU could be left behind again.

First off, you're using CoD as a benchmark. There hasn't been any massive leaps since CoD4 and we're many games beyond that. They're still using a heavily modified Quake 3 engine, FFS. Second, whatever hardware ends up being in the 2013 consoles WILL be more powerful than whatever hardware Nintendo's put into the WiiU... but it will not be "left behind" for ports unless publishers specifically choose to, not because of hardware. A multicore PowerPC and a modern Radeon HD with architecture that is current (and not fixed-pipeline like the TEV in Wii) guarantees that.

Even with its 90's era technology, the Wii got ports of every CoD other than MW2 - and they were well ported to suit the hardware. They sold well, too, and had near-equivalent online modes.

 

[knitoe]

Yeah, good to know that nintendo is just going to sit back and let it happen.

They'll want to upstage Wii U, but I'm sure they realize that there's not much they can do to stop earlier adopters. Wii U will be out more than a year before them, giving more than enough time for people to save up for the PS4/XB3, and the early adopters are Nintendo fans who aren't going to care that the other consoles have better graphics. They'll only bother showing enough to prevent Nintendo from overshadowing them completely.

This stuff is not new. Look at Dreamcast, how Sony said PS2 will be X more powerful. Or, when X360, Sony did same thing with PS3.

And, early adopters are mostly HC gamers. They can be persuaded by graphic power talks.

 

[BurntPork]

Battlefield 3 is already pushing pass X360 / PS3 can do. Sure, the engine will be upgraded even more for X720 / PS4. Surely, Activision will not want to give EA a head start. Thus, COD game for X720 / PS4 will be big graphic leap. WiiU could be left behind again.

Activision doesn't care. They'll beat anything EA puts out easily, so they'll just make it closer to the PC version, perhaps with better textures, and advertise the better frame rate. Then, once both consoles are out, they'll upgrade the engine. (Though they will make it possible to scale down to Wii U easily.) CoD isn't about graphics; it's about sales.